Ryzen-A Fail for Gamers?

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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,574
126
How much do you expect from internal graphics in Ryzen?
I am a bit confused that some are satisfied with it for games. I believe it could be an alternative for laptops but not for desktops if you like games (like 99% do).
Most sold GPU in Sweden looks to be GTX 1070 so games are dominating really.
I have a Jaguar Athlon 5350 and I have been running Rise of Tomb Raider with internal GPU and with GTX 1050 Ti. The FPS went from 7 to 45 at 1920x1080 so they are not close!
Athlon 5350 has a very poor IGP. It is soundly beaten by the Intel HD4600, which is also a very poor IGP.

Intel's latest IGP HD530/630 is much better than HD4600

AMD's current top end IGP's are pretty good.

RyZen IGP will likely be much better than anything in these charts, and about 20X better than an Athlon 5350. :D

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7933/the-desktop-kabini-review-part-1-athlon-5350-am1/6
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
Living next to a Microcenter, I can get the 1700X for $349. But is the 1700 the better choice b/c of it's better thermal headroom?
 

AMDisTheBEST

Senior member
Dec 17, 2015
682
89
61
Living next to a Microcenter, I can get the 1700X for $349. But is the 1700 the better choice b/c of it's better thermal headroom?
Definitely go for the 1700. No Ryzen OC past 4.1 ghz without liquid nitrogen. 1700 OC to 3.9 which is close to 1800x's turbo. Also, it bundles with a led cooler
 
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Kingbee13

Senior member
Jul 17, 2007
238
21
81
MY 1800X has been up and running for 24 hours now and I have some gaming benchmarks comparing it to my old 3570K build, all the tests were done at 2560x1080 I didn't gimp any settings they are what I played at before and how Ryzen compares, I ran tests with SMT on and off for Ryzen but it didn't make much difference. I wish I could test with faster RAM speeds to compare but it won't post past 2400

Ryzen 1800X @4ghz
Asrock Killer SLI 1.62 beta bios
Gskill DDR4 3200 @ 2400 14 14 14 34
Gigabyte 1070 Windforce OC




As you can see for me personally Ryzen was a side-grade for gaming but it doesn't tell the whole story, the new Ryzen build blows away my old cpu in everything aside from gaming. I think Ryzen will spread it wings a bit more when I upgrade my display to 3440x1440

I'm sure I would have been happy with a 7700K where it would of been more an upgrade to gaming but not as much in everything else, it depends on your priorities. The other alternative an X99 platform is laughable the cost of that platform vs the performance against Ryzen is terrible
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,342
2,290
136
MY 1800X has been up and running for 24 hours now and I have some gaming benchmarks comparing it to my old 3570K build, all the tests were done at 2560x1080 I didn't gimp any settings they are what I played at before and how Ryzen compares, I ran tests with SMT on and off for Ryzen but it didn't make much difference. I wish I could test with faster RAM speeds to compare but it won't post past 2400

Ryzen 1800X @4ghz
Asrock Killer SLI 1.62 beta bios
Gskill DDR4 3200 @ 2400 14 14 14 34
Gigabyte 1070 Windforce OC




As you can see for me personally Ryzen was a side-grade for gaming but it doesn't tell the whole story, the new Ryzen build blows away my old cpu in everything aside from gaming. I think Ryzen will spread it wings a bit more when I upgrade my display to 3440x1440

I'm sure I would have been happy with a 7700K where it would of been more an upgrade to gaming but not as much in everything else, it depends on your priorities. The other alternative an X99 platform is laughable the cost of that platform vs the performance against Ryzen is terrible
Thanks for taking the time to share this. Sorry it doesn't perform better for these tasks. It makes me really sad to see this to be honest.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
3,167
2,221
136
Kingbee13, did you try turning off core parking? There are some utilities that can do that like Unpark-CPU. Too bad for 2400Mhz RAM, I hope you can at least get close to 3Ghz.

Edit:
Wow Linus 1080ti review! Stellar performance on Ryzen test system ;). No CPU bottleneck with massively more powerful GPU, all the GTX1080 low resolution benchmarks kinda made null and void :/. But kudos for trying guys!
 
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itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,318
2,081
136
Has anyone done any Bclk overclock tests with regards to XRF/shadow P states?

if you can hit 120mhz bclck on a 1700X that would be like 4.55ghz single core and 4.4ghz allcore. Im assuming it would only reach either of those if thermals allowed it.

Personally i would be fine with gen2 pcie even for M.2 and i keep all my real data on my Server/cloud so corruption is annoying not life destroying...lol .
 
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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,936
1,553
136
Thanks for taking the time to share this. Sorry it doesn't perform better for these tasks. It makes me really sad to see this to be honest.
Ryzen perform bad in those games. As simple. Some desperately need a patch like far cry. But imo also a bad case portfolio for ryzen. Bf1 shows where its going. But granted even after new win sceduler what not we will still have some old engine base games that is slow out the gate.
In bf1 my 1700 at 3.8 2666 ram is more than twice as fast as my prior i5 4.2 1866 for cornercase min. Its plus 100% faster where it really hurts.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
15,496
4,191
136
MY 1800X has been up and running for 24 hours now and I have some gaming benchmarks comparing it to my old 3570K build, all the tests were done at 2560x1080 I didn't gimp any settings they are what I played at before and how Ryzen compares, I ran tests with SMT on and off for Ryzen but it didn't make much difference. I wish I could test with faster RAM speeds to compare but it won't post past 2400

Ryzen 1800X @4ghz
Asrock Killer SLI 1.62 beta bios
Gskill DDR4 3200 @ 2400 14 14 14 34
Gigabyte 1070 Windforce OC




As you can see for me personally Ryzen was a side-grade for gaming but it doesn't tell the whole story, the new Ryzen build blows away my old cpu in everything aside from gaming. I think Ryzen will spread it wings a bit more when I upgrade my display to 3440x1440

I'm sure I would have been happy with a 7700K where it would of been more an upgrade to gaming but not as much in everything else, it depends on your priorities. The other alternative an X99 platform is laughable the cost of that platform vs the performance against Ryzen is terrible
Thank you for posting your results for us.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,107
2,866
136
all cpus on 4Ghz.3570k have fast 2Ghz memory.Ryzen have 2800mhz and 6700k also 2800Mhz.
and gta5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kATwMQDGAiQ
It's obvious from the CPU utilization that this is not a CPU bottleneck. On the Intel chips all cores are being loaded equally most of the times, whereas the R7 1700 is hardly being utilized.

In fact, in certain scenes the R7 1700 is showing half the utilization across all cores when compared to the i7 6700K.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
15,496
4,191
136
Ryzen perform bad in those games. As simple. Some desperately need a patch like far cry. But imo also a bad case portfolio for ryzen. Bf1 shows where its going. But granted even after new win sceduler what not we will still have some old engine base games that is slow out the gate.
In bf1 my 1700 at 3.8 2666 ram is more than twice as fast as my prior i5 4.2 1866 for cornercase min. Its plus 100% faster where it really hurts.
Most tech writers who are honest will tell you that there are less gains to be had with cpu software optimizations than with gpu software optimizations. Anyone who expects for the Ryzen's performance to magically increase like a gpu does from a good driver update will be disappointed. I hope that the lessons learned from this will directly translate into the next iteration of this architecture.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,574
126
MY 1800X has been up and running for 24 hours now and I have some gaming benchmarks comparing it to my old 3570K build, all the tests were done at 2560x1080 I didn't gimp any settings they are what I played at before and how Ryzen compares, I ran tests with SMT on and off for Ryzen but it didn't make much difference. I wish I could test with faster RAM speeds to compare but it won't post past 2400

Ryzen 1800X @4ghz
Asrock Killer SLI 1.62 beta bios
Gskill DDR4 3200 @ 2400 14 14 14 34
Gigabyte 1070 Windforce OC




As you can see for me personally Ryzen was a side-grade for gaming but it doesn't tell the whole story, the new Ryzen build blows away my old cpu in everything aside from gaming. I think Ryzen will spread it wings a bit more when I upgrade my display to 3440x1440

I'm sure I would have been happy with a 7700K where it would of been more an upgrade to gaming but not as much in everything else, it depends on your priorities. The other alternative an X99 platform is laughable the cost of that platform vs the performance against Ryzen is terrible
7700K looks like it's considerably faster overall, clock for clock, than your 3570K.
I selected an i7-6700 for comparison for the stock clock speed, as KL is at most a tiny bit faster. (than SL)

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/701?vs=1554
 
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Feb 4, 2009
31,887
12,268
136
all cpus on 4Ghz.3570k have fast 2Ghz memory.Ryzen have 2800mhz and 6700k also 2800Mhz.
and gta5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kATwMQDGAiQ
They look the same to me. I generally feel we as gamers tend to needlessly obsess about test numbers when in reality they usually don't matter much. Ryzen isn't a failure but its definitely not exciting for someone who only cares about gaming performance. I can see value in having more cores in the long run but I also see risk in AMDs motherboard and CPU failure rates, so I guess its a toss up.
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
1,858
678
136
It's obvious from the CPU utilization that this is not a CPU bottleneck. On the Intel chips all cores are being loaded equally most of the times, whereas the R7 1700 is hardly being utilized.

In fact, in certain scenes the R7 1700 is showing half the utilization across all cores when compared to the i7 6700K.
lol what?Todays games will newer use all 16cores at max.Whole test is on cpu limit/bottleneck almost whole time.
Thats why 6700k is there 40-80% faster than 3570k
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,107
2,866
136
lol what?Todays games will newer use all 16cores at max.Whole test is on cpu limit/bottleneck almost whole time.
Thats why 6700k is there 40-80% faster than 3570k
If games cannot use 16 threads evenly, then it is an issue with the game not the CPU. When your CPU barely breaks 25% usage in Fallout 4, then it does not mean that it is a bottleneck in Fallout 4 - it means that Fallout 4 is crap at utilizing multiple cores, at least when it comes to the Ryzen cores.

The even distribution across threads on the Intel chips means that those games are better at recognizing multiple Intel cores than they are at recognizing multiple Ryzen cores. Also, the Windows scheduling issue is playing a part here. That does not mean that the Ryzen cores are at fault.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
273
81
All this reminds me of the arguments when quad core CPUs first started coming out. Some people kept arguing dual core were better just because the game engines were single threaded and didn't make use of 4 cores yet.

Nowadays dual core CPUs are in the past, as I'm sure quad cores will be also. Multi-threaded programming and compilers just need to catch up a little, same as before.
 

PotatoWithEarsOnSide

Senior member
Feb 23, 2017
664
700
106
The question that I had was why aren't we seeing CPU or GPU usage above 90% consistently? It should be obvious that if neither are actually a bottleneck then the issue lies somewhere else. Ryzen clearly has the performance in it romp these benchmarks, but something is clearly holding it back. OS scheduling, game optimisations, RAM and cache issues...they're clearly all contributing to a certain extent.
Realistically, these can mostly be resolved, but at what timeframe?
 

Magic Hate Ball

Senior member
Feb 2, 2017
290
250
96
Bf1 issues 10 threads as i recall.
I might be crazy, but when I turned off SMT last night I'm fairly certain my BF1 FPS increased. I'll have to try again though as I didn't have much time.

This is on my 1800X (stock for now) and 3200mhz CL14 RAM.
 

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