• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

RYZEN 7 2700 Possible Bottleneck?

Moe Lester

Junior Member
Feb 21, 2020
2
0
6
I have been playing lots of games on my pc and can play almost all games on ultra with no frame rate penalty however my frames tend to hover around 80-90 while playing most games and if I lower the settings the frame rate doesn't increase. Example) Division 2 runs at 80-90 fps on ultra 1080p and on low it runs at 90-95 fps on 1080p. Csgo on max in game is about 170 to 190 fps which is low for this setup. Is this a cpu bottleneck and do I need to overclock?

My setup is...

- Ryzen 7 2700 with stock cooler

- Corsair vengeance ram 3200

- Gigabyte D3SH b450 motherboard

- rtx 2070 super from MSI

- 600w PSU

Thanks!
 

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
2,757
2,081
136
If you're trying to get really high fps constantly (above 100fps on newer games, over 200 on older games) then a 2700 is going to struggle to do that. It is a 65 W processor so it will back off on frequency significantly as soon as more than 1 and especially 2 cores are loaded. You can try overclocking and you'll probably get about 15% - 20% higher performance depending on how well your chip overclocks. If you want more performance than that you'll probably have to upgrade your CPU to a 3rd gen Ryzen or deal with it for now and see if the 4th gen Ryzen's will work on your motherboard when they release later (probably late) this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lightmanek

lobz

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2017
1,342
1,497
106
If you're trying to get really high fps constantly (above 100fps on newer games, over 200 on older games) then a 2700 is going to struggle to do that. It is a 65 W processor so it will back off on frequency significantly as soon as more than 1 and especially 2 cores are loaded. You can try overclocking and you'll probably get about 15% - 20% higher performance depending on how well your chip overclocks. If you want more performance than that you'll probably have to upgrade your CPU to a 3rd gen Ryzen or deal with it for now and see if the 4th gen Ryzen's will work on your motherboard when they release later (probably late) this year.
Don't for get replacing the stock cooler too, if he really wants to overclock. I wouldn't recommend it otherwise, unless it's a very light overclock.
 

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
2,757
2,081
136
Don't for get replacing the stock cooler too, if he really wants to overclock. I wouldn't recommend it otherwise, unless it's a very light overclock.
You can probably get 10% or so with the stock cooler depending on how much fan noise you can tolerate, but yes, if you really want to get that last 5% - 10% you'll need a new CPU cooler.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lobz

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,792
5,303
126
If you're running a 2700 non-X version, those really suck for single-threaded clocks. I recommend putting it under 240mm AIO WC, and then doing a static OC to 4.0Ghz. (That's how I had mine, for DC work.)

If you don't feel comfortable doing that, then just go sell / return your chip, and get a Ryzen R5 3600 (Zen2/3000-series) CPU. They are much faster in gaming, than Zen/Zen+ CPUs.

Edit: There's a reason that the 2700, in particular, is a "cheap" CPU.
 

Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,345
137
106
The 2700 will perform much better with a better heatsink and a hair more voltage. It tries to stay in the 65watt area. So the better heatsink and voltage will allow it to run at higher frequency.

I run this cheap 6 pipe heatsink on my 2700x
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,562
78
91
cat /proc/$(pgrep -x dota2)/status
Threads: 46

Some games will use every bit of cpu you throw at them.
Of course they almost certainly aren't balanced evenly, ie: 1-2 threads might be maxed all the time and the others used lightly.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,562
1,030
126
2070 Super and High Refresh VRR gaming : pair with a Ryzen 3600 / i7 9700 or better for best results. Don't forget decent ram with tight timings (there is a Ryzen memory calculator out there, generally 3466/3600 and CL15 or better yields best results).
 
  • Like
Reactions: mopardude87

Ganakas

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2020
5
0
6
Hey bud , I get 142 fps solid in Battlefield 5 on Ultra at 1080p minus undergrowth which i ofcourse turn off , and I tend to keep terrain on medium

Id get more than that but I have 144hz monitorso I cap my frames at 142 usually. I get basically the same on Apex Legends its actually easier to run in my opinion as Battlefield is buggy as $hit and depending on how you set your 3rd /bottom layer Ram timings it can just crash outta no where , no matter how "stable" u might think your ram overclock is....its not till u can play Bf5 haha.

Anyway here's the thing...Don't all core overclock the processor. just don't. U can if u are looking to do alot of thread heavy workloads but why bother.

get a 50 dollar 240mm aio make sure u have a case with plenty of fans to deal with the heat coming off that 2070. And then A) as others have said tighten every ram timing u can (all of them) and increase the ram's freq as much as u can. GL on 2700's memory controller mine isn't that great and without manipulating the base clock I can't get past 3466.
doesn't mean u won't hit 3600+ tho ...chip to chip variance is high .

U can hit 1940 CB R15 with that now 130 dollar processor with the right all core OC , OR you can hit 488-489 single thread score on CPUZ with it ( I have) its up to you.
That processor comes stock with a junk A$$ single thread score (this is for reference) of 390-400 thats trash , I5 4690k devil's canyon is right near that for reference pre overclock (wife has one).

So long as the motherboard you picked allows base clock manipulations along with having a decent power delivery ...You can hit 120 fps NO PROBLEM with a 1660 TI in most games on high settings.

With the card you have ? 144fps is gonna be a cake walk. Ive spent a year with this processor (check out darthraider on whatever your fav bench site happens to be ...userbenchmark /geekbench etc ...thats me) Outside of stupid cooling solutions that no one is going to be able to actually game on ...my processor on vs others on air /aio's that actually reside within a case that u could sit in a room with tends to be #1-2. esp if pared with the 3d cards ive had.

currently i have a 2060 super FE which isn't really comparable to yours. so again ... it takes time to get to know the ram kit you have and it will take time to figure out how far u can push the Host clock if your mobo allows it.

if the mobo u have doesn't allow host clock tinkering .....remember that fact and never purchase that series of boards from them again.

as wtf... (Gigabyte has horrible software or always has had ...but solid hardware and i can't remember a mobo on intel that I had over past 20 years that they made without host clock being opened up) So when I got my first amd processor ever this 2700 ofcourse first thing I did was go for that Host clock and make my system really a personal computer ...how many folks do u think run a 2700 at 4280 /4179 4281 and so on haha.

Anyway forget all core OC u need 2/4/6 core power on video games for the most part and static OC's are rough on the processor as u tend to have to use more volts than u would otherwise.

Where as with the host clock not only can u increase the ram freq beyond what u would normally BUT ALSO u can mimic the 2700x's behavior simply by setting LLC ....leaving the Processors MAIN multiplier alone (its for blender and youtube videos thats it not for gaming) but yea leave it alone ...set voltage for the target speed u want ..minus .02 off that as in u want 4.2ghz ? most ppl will tell u 1.39-1.42 volts

with the host clock u can obtain 4.2ghz on this processor BOOST as in anyway just PM me man i'll explain it.
 

Ganakas

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2020
5
0
6
sorry finally got in on game Que was heavy today. Anyway what I was getting at is ..you can hit high Frequencies both Ram and Processor while using reasonable voltages IF you use the host clock.

And with this processor in particular as others have said once You can AVERAGE <--- note the term ... 4ghz while gaming the primary increase in performance/frames /frame delivery that you'll get is from Ram Overclocking. but what good is it to get all the timings perfect and stable (game stable ...the mem test etc is useful but don't kid yourself ... games are odd and variables are newly added by devs on a patch by patch basis) OC the processor first or get the Frequency avg u want. Single thread performance on zen + is better when its not static all core OC ... and the diff isn't HUGE the diff in frame delay tends to be noticable for whatever reason.

Anyway after a 3 hour game session utilization on 2060 FE avg'd 93 % ...( maps change u die etc ) during actual active gameplay I rarely see the 2060 drop below 97-98% usage meanwhile my processor at 4.1ghz ( keep in mind again all i do is set the voltage that "would" maintain the desired clock) change LLC and the 2700 will act like its a 2700x as in instead of 3400all core with 4100 ocassionally on two threads idle .... ALL cores will constantly boost to 4.1ghz and once u know how to deal with the settings and back the voltage off little by little you'll average after again about 3 hours of gaming 4018ghz on the weakest cores while the best cores on either CCX will avg around 4075ghz ..as they will throttle still but i'll walk u thru it if you pm me and the chances of seeing any core throttle below 3.98 ghz in a gaming load is well it doesn't really happen unless the core is idle in which case yea it will drop fairly low.

secret is leaving primary multiplier alone .... good VRM's on the mobo a real powersupply that delivers consistent clean bleed free power. and finding the Proper LLC setting to go along with this setup that will be specific to your board. I use "extreme" on gigabyte which is essentially just leaves the voltage alone or ocassionally gives it a tiny overshoot instead of vdroop...other boards are well just different in the behavior of the LLC settings.

Also its important to ignore most every youtube tech person you see and any benchmark they post about atleast this processor ...or any gaming Zen + related bench mark list that has the processor with a static overclock as clearly this person giving the review hasn't had to rely on the processor as his primary gaming CPU else he would have put the time in and figured out that tuneing the voltage AND changing the CTDP setting in bios > by up to 15-18 Fps than a static OC

I can get this cpu to 4.275 static without to much trouble game stable ( but this doesn't allow me to get the best ram oc my kit is capable of sadly) anyway this i can do....and without even touching the host clock i get better frame delivery /time /pacing and AVG<-- fps just by setting voltage , increasing CTDP setting (which is effectively altering the PPT setting that we don't have access too like the X chip guys do)

anyway pm me i'll help ya im about ready to switch to the 3000 series anyway n figure out where the channel guys are horribly wrong 3 months into ownership of that generation lol.

U can't hate on review guys they have SO much hardware to look at. Easy just to set a base line static oc it as far as they can or leave it at stock n manipulate a few settings u almost NEVER see any of htem deal with host clock OC's on either intel nor amd.

But yea 120-140 bucks this processor is fully capable of 144fps at 1080p without a 2080ti ...hell on high /med settings 144 with an Overclocked 1660 TI is doable as well.... Ram > everything on this chip. 65tdp is snake oil means nothing unless u have a cheap mobo that doesn't give u ctdp /host clock settings or has a crap VRM.
 

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
2,757
2,081
136
65tdp is snake oil means nothing unless u have a cheap mobo that doesn't give u ctdp /host clock settings or has a crap VRM.
I won't bother with the rest of your post, there's too much to go through, but this is misleading. The 65W TDP isn't snake oil, it sets the power limit (+ a % allowable by boost) that the CPU will adhere to which will greatly limit the frequency of the CPU once more than 1-2 cores are active. If you manually overclock, you're removing said limit, that doesn't make it a fake limit though, it just means to get the performance the OP wants out of the chip, you need to overclock it at which point how far you can overclock will depend on your cooling which was pointed out from the very beginning.

Also, bus speed overclock can be effective but can cause more problems than its worth including data corruption on your hard drives, so "caveat emptor" on that.
 

Ganakas

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2020
5
0
6
I won't bother with the rest of your post, there's too much to go through, but this is misleading. The 65W TDP isn't snake oil, it sets the power limit (+ a % allowable by boost) that the CPU will adhere to which will greatly limit the frequency of the CPU once more than 1-2 cores are active. If you manually overclock, you're removing said limit, that doesn't make it a fake limit though, it just means to get the performance the OP wants out of the chip, you need to overclock it at which point how far you can overclock will depend on your cooling which was pointed out from the very beginning.

Also, bus speed overclock can be effective but can cause more problems than its worth including data corruption on your hard drives, so "caveat emptor" on that.
If you have this processor I would suggest that u may wish to bother with it. The 65tdp is snake oil ...had you read the post I wasn't suggesting that he do an all core over clock which would eliminate PPT / EDC etc parameters.
I run my processor on boost ... at 4.180ish. not 1 to 2 threads but all 16 threads boost to 4.1 non stop at idle and attempt to do so during every game Ive tested thus far (ESO/BFV /APex / CSGo /monsterhunter world etc.

Routinely drills 120-140 watts on draw which yes i realize 140watt draw isn't 140 TDP via Ryzen's rating system ....but its still more in either case. You won't trigger the processor into "OC mode" which sticks the chip into a static all core clock IF you simply Change LLC to Turbo / Extreme (on gigabyte mobos) Cold reboot THEN set the voltage to say 1.31 ...cold reboot again magically when u pop on Every core will be at 4.1ghz (the rated boost) on Games , it will ofcourse throt on heavy multi threaded work loads. However you'll immediately notice where as You were prior to doing this hitting 45-50 watts in HWinfo during gaming that you will instead be hitting the 88watt PPT limit non stop on intense gaming sessions , Why ? because the "65tdp" thing is tossed out the window and essentially ignored without sacrificing single core performance or even quad /6 thread performance.

Then obviously you can adjust the base clock and get higher and higher single /4 /6 /8 thread performance. Sure he needs better cooling as you guys pointed out at the start.

I decided to throw him a bone and tell him how to actually get the best gaming performance out of his processor . The processor's stock settings no matter if you keep it at avg of 42c (20 over ambient for me) or 60C ...is garbage. Ive got 12 fans along with the aio in my case currently. 2060 super with max OC i can get averages 42 C ... the 2700 (for ref with 4.25ghz all core clock ) avg's 48 C in 20-22c room. just to give an idea of the cooling im dealing with. Even under these circumstances with no OC at all stock settings the processor is garbage and will throt down to 3.5/3.6 if lucky every thread . It essentially only boosts when idle ...snake oil.

but you can bypass this without the standard all core Bs. set the LLC , cold reboot , set the voltage to 1.31 VPP - 100 (saves ya ppt space) and you can get the PPT limit up to 90 watts if you change CTDP in gigabbyte bios to 1400+ ( stock is 700 for example its a heat rating from what i understand ) It will still downclock under loads as it gets to 88-89-90watts while not in "oc mode" but for whatever reason setting a static voltage and leaving the multiplier on auto allows every thread to boost to 4.1ghz at any thing under stress test / avx work loads.




Both 2700 non x chips ive had behave in this way after a year of messing around with PO oc's , all cores and getting it as cold as I could this was absolutely the best setup for gaming . u can static voltage /llc this thing to 120fps with a 1660ti 138 avg with 2060 super in Bfv . You can go beyond that with blck OC afterward.

With regard to nvme concerns the one i have im not even sure the brand m.2 nvme ive had no problems in 5 months or so of using these settings but in either case u can just settle for the 4.1 all thread boost and you will average 3984 to 4010 mhz after a few hours of gaming on every single thread with the worst/slower cores in yer system being in the 3970-3980 range.

U can BLCK and avg 4.16 - 4.17 depending how far u wish to go. I would reccomend stopping at 101.75 -102. beyond that atleast with the two chips ive tested you will start running into memory errors regardless what you do with the timings. But 101.75 and under you can maintain tight sub timings without downclocking the Ram's multiplier . again ive had no issues with my M.2 drive at all , I don't do massive amounts of copy / transfer work or anything I game on this and have had no issues , It is odd with regard to how it impacts memory stability vs certain games but nothing ya cant handle once familiar with how your kit behaves vs cpu's memory controller.

I provided my findings with the OP because I searched and searched after first getting this system and found nothing that helped minus suggestions that amounted to (Throw volts at it change multiplier n GL) which yea u can do ok in games with that but who wants to run their CPU at that high a voltage everyday ? Seems silly.

4.1 auto boost on every thread with 3.9 - 4.xxx Ghz avg is still enough on his system to stay above 100fps no problem. If anyone is curious I have recordings and screenshots I can share . You can increase the boost avg via lowering various voltages VPP /Soc and so on as lowering the package power is the primary thing that will help you maintain higher boost clocks even if u leave BLCK alone.
 
Last edited:

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
2,757
2,081
136
If you have this processor I would suggest that u may wish to bother with it. The 65tdp is snake oil ...had you read the post I wasn't suggesting that he do an all core over clock which would eliminate PPT / EDC etc parameters.
I run my processor on boost ... at 4.180ish. not 1 to 2 threads but all 16 threads boost to 4.1 non stop at idle and attempt to do so during every game Ive tested thus far (ESO/BFV /APex / CSGo /monsterhunter world etc.

Routinely drills 120-140 watts on draw which yes i realize 140watt draw isn't 140 TDP via Ryzen's rating system ....but its still more in either case. You won't trigger the processor into "OC mode" which sticks the chip into a static all core clock IF you simply Change LLC to Turbo / Extreme (on gigabyte mobos) Cold reboot THEN set the voltage to say 1.31 ...cold reboot again magically when u pop on Every core will be at 4.1ghz (the rated boost) on Games , it will ofcourse throt on heavy multi threaded work loads. However you'll immediately notice where as You were prior to doing this hitting 45-50 watts in HWinfo during gaming that you will instead be hitting the 88watt PPT limit non stop on intense gaming sessions , Why ? because the "65tdp" thing is tossed out the window and essentially ignored without sacrificing single core performance or even quad /6 thread performance.

Then obviously you can adjust the base clock and get higher and higher single /4 /6 /8 thread performance. Sure he needs better cooling as you guys pointed out at the start.

I decided to throw him a bone and tell him how to actually get the best gaming performance out of his processor . The processor's stock settings no matter if you keep it at avg of 42c (20 over ambient for me) or 60C ...is garbage. Ive got 12 fans along with the aio in my case currently. 2060 super with max OC i can get averages 42 C ... the 2700 (for ref with 4.25ghz all core clock ) avg's 48 C in 20-22c room. just to give an idea of the cooling im dealing with. Even under these circumstances with no OC at all stock settings the processor is garbage and will throt down to 3.5/3.6 if lucky every thread . It essentially only boosts when idle ...snake oil.

but you can bypass this without the standard all core Bs. set the LLC , cold reboot , set the voltage to 1.31 VPP - 100 (saves ya ppt space) and you can get the PPT limit up to 90 watts if you change CTDP in gigabbyte bios to 1400+ ( stock is 700 for example its a heat rating from what i understand ) It will still downclock under loads as it gets to 88-89-90watts while not in "oc mode" but for whatever reason setting a static voltage and leaving the multiplier on auto allows every thread to boost to 4.1ghz at any thing under stress test / avx work loads.




Both 2700 non x chips ive had behave in this way after a year of messing around with PO oc's , all cores and getting it as cold as I could this was absolutely the best setup for gaming . u can static voltage /llc this thing to 120fps with a 1660ti 138 avg with 2060 super in Bfv . You can go beyond that with blck OC afterward.

With regard to nvme concerns the one i have im not even sure the brand m.2 nvme ive had no problems in 5 months or so of using these settings but in either case u can just settle for the 4.1 all thread boost and you will average 3984 to 4010 mhz after a few hours of gaming on every single thread with the worst/slower cores in yer system being in the 3970-3980 range.

U can BLCK and avg 4.16 - 4.17 depending how far u wish to go. I would reccomend stopping at 101.75 -102. beyond that atleast with the two chips ive tested you will start running into memory errors regardless what you do with the timings. But 101.75 and under you can maintain tight sub timings without downclocking the Ram's multiplier . again ive had no issues with my M.2 drive at all , I don't do massive amounts of copy / transfer work or anything I game on this and have had no issues , It is odd with regard to how it impacts memory stability vs certain games but nothing ya cant handle once familiar with how your kit behaves vs cpu's memory controller.

I provided my findings with the OP because I searched and searched after first getting this system and found nothing that helped minus suggestions that amounted to (Throw volts at it change multiplier n GL) which yea u can do ok in games with that but who wants to run their CPU at that high a voltage everyday ? Seems silly.

4.1 auto boost on every thread with 3.9 - 4.xxx Ghz avg is still enough on his system to stay above 100fps no problem. If anyone is curious I have recordings and screenshots I can share . You can increase the boost avg via lowering various voltages VPP /Soc and so on as lowering the package power is the primary thing that will help you maintain higher boost clocks even if u leave BLCK alone.
I'm going to be as polite as I can be and simply say, it is clear that you don't understand how this CPU works in terms of boost algorithm and power limits. I appreciate that you are trying to help someone else out but others have given better advice with understanding of what is actually happening with the CPU.
 

Ganakas

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2020
5
0
6
Ah , hmm You are correct I don't know exactly how the boost algorithm works.

However considering I currently hold or am first on every benchmark list u can think of for this processor atleast , (or have been at various points on certain lists) for Air/ aio cooling, I do understand how this processor behaves.
And short of sub ambient cooling which I cannot speak too , it doesn't matter how much he improves his cooling for the non x processor atleast short of sub ambient means.

It will still only boost on 1 or 2 threads at any given time provided it doesn't have any load on it not just "heavy" load but essentially any game made in the past 7 years incluiding everquest for god sakes ..will downclock the processor at 29c /35c /45c ...doesn't matter to somewhere between 3200-3500 on all cores.

If he sets 1.35 volts (+ or - .01 mv) LLC to Highest or 2nd to highest setting cold boots Then leaves the multi at auto

he will then have 4100mhz boost on every core and every thread almost non stop to the point where after hours of gaming his avg clock speed on his slowest core will be like 3990somthing with most cores doing 4035ish avg over that time period.

The advice I gave him will allow him to boost on all cores , the advice yall gave him may very well work great for an X chip but it wont do anything for him.

Lowering his voltages as much as possible so that PPT limit doesn't get hit as quickly is the primary hattrick . the lower he can get his Package power the better off he is weather its running at 45c avg under gaming load or 55c (can't speak to above that as Ive never had it above 55.
 

Ganakas

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2020
5
0
6
Here is a screenshot after about 3 hours of bf5 . This isn't my primary setup for this machine just something i was testing , in anycase u can see at the time i took the screen shot every core was on boost at 4128 , the avg u see there of 4103 across the cores (left panel) along with that u can see the minimum proving its not a static overclock. As soon as it starts to pull 83 whats it will Downclock across all the cores once at 88/89 watts in hwinfo64 it will Downclock to the minimum You see there.

the screen shot is with LLC set to "high" on gigabyte board. or 3rd to highest setting . the lower you can get the volts to the package which tends to include SoC voltage etc the more load the cpu can deal with at max boost clocks. i have video of in game clips with clocks at 4180 4273 and everywhere inbetween. He likely doesn't wanna push his baseclock that far but in anycase its possible n ive had no issues with my m.2 drive.
 

Attachments


ASK THE COMMUNITY