Ryzen 5 video/3d editing rig

[davide445]

Upgrading from old HP Compaq Elite 8100 CMT with i7-860, 14GB Ram DDR3-1333, 128 GB SSD, 3TB HDD, HD7950BOOST (externally powered), VGA 1440x900 monitor, Win10Pro64bit.

Used for video editing and intro creation for NPO and scanning and 3d printing for museum with HitFilm Pro (compositing, VFX), PowerDirector (video editing), Affinity (image editing), PagePlus (DTP), 3d-Coat (mesh editing), DAVID 3D (point cloud editing), GOM Inspect (mesh repair), etc.
Want to use also Unity3d and addons, Daz3d, SketchUp for 3d CGI video creation. Purchased Kinect v2 for mocap and characters animation.

New rig will reuse HDD (a new Toshiba), GPU (about a modern GTX 950) and monitor. Components will be purchased from Amazon Italy and the budget is the min achievable for a decent rig that need to be upgradable and last for at least 5y.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X 3.6GHz 6-Core Processor (€267)
CPU Cooler: Arctic Freezer 33 Plus (€50)
Motherboard: MSI B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard (€113)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (€127)
Storage: Crucial MX300 275GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€89)
Case: Cooler Master CM 590 III (White) ATX Mid Tower Case (€67)
Power Supply: XFX TS 550W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply (€68)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSC0B DVD/CD Writer (€21)
Total: €802

Any comment is welcomed since this will be my first ever PC building.

 

[sm625]

If possible, you might want to check to see how much of that software actually uses more than one thread. You might be surprised.

 

[lehtv]

@davide445 Get the Ryzen 5 1600 and use the stock cooler - you save a fair chunk of money, and the boost clock is only 100MHz lower. The stock cooler is actually fairly decent, much quieter and beefier than Intel's stock cooler. Later on, you can add a third party cooler if deemed necessary. At 50€, that Freezer 33 Plus is overpriced, the difference between that and the 18€ cheaper regular Freezer 33 is just one fan that's worth 5€. Dual fans are overkill anyway.

CM 690 III's design is a bit dated. I'd suggest Nanoxia Deep Silence 3 91€, Nanoxia is a high quality German brand and the low noise Deep Silence series is basically like Fractal Design Define series, but less expensive.

Nice find on the PSU. The only downside is it can be a bit loud at higher loads.

 

[davide445]

@sm625 with current weak CPU I tried to optimize on GPU and multithreaded. HitFilm Pro is multi thread in encode and decode, particle simulator is single thread for physics and that's why I want to use Unity. PD, Affinity and PP are not a problem for what I need from them. 3d-Coat is multithreaded in many activities and does use also OpenCL for heavy tasks. Daz3d will use it mostly the assets and as external render want to use Indigo Renderer (OpenCL) or 3Delight (multithreaded), SketchUp no idea will use it for easy tasks, David3d is monothread and GOM Inspect is fully multithreaded. In Unity will use the particle systems Shuriken and Particles Playground (fully multithreaded), TC Particles (GPU), SEGI (global illumination GPU), Obi Cloth (multithreaded), TerrainComposer2 (GPU).
@lehtv I thinked about 1600 but with no experience and using b350 I didn't want to mess up things in OC, want to stay safe. You're right on the 33 Plus probably the Frozen 33 is enough, the Plus might be useful for light OC in future? Nanoxia it's a bit expensive, nothing near €50?

 

[lehtv]

@davide445

I thinked about 1600 but with no experience and using b350 I didn't want to mess up things in OC, want to stay safe.

Well, overclocking isn't "unsafe" per se, it may cause instability but that's fixed by adding more voltage or reducing clockspeed. Everyone always says about overclocking that you should "do it at your own risk", but what they fail to mention is the risk is practically nonexistent unless you deliberately try to break things and use 24/7 voltages way above accepted norms.

But let's compare the costs for a bit...

1. Ryzen 5 1600 230€
2. Ryzen 5 1600X 284€ + Freezer 33 35€
3. Ryzen 7 1700 328€

(2) is almost 40% more expensive than (1), while only being about 5-10% faster.
(3) is only 3% more expensive than (2), while having 33% more cores and a 5-10% clock penalty to performance per core.
(3) is 42% more expensive than (2), while having 33% more cores.

You can quite easily see that Ryzen 5 1600 is by far the best bang-for-buck choice, and Ryzen 5 1600X just doesn't make sense. If you want to spend extra, buy the 8-core Ryzen 7 1700. The X models only make sense if you want the highest possible OC (given how the upper limit of their OC tends to be 100MHz higher compared to the non-X models, and they use a little bit less voltage), or if you already have a cooler from a previous build and can deduct the cost of a new cooler from these price comparisons.

Note that thanks to the lower clock speed, the non-X models use less power (and are rated at 65W TDP), so the stock cooler actually does a very good job of keeping the CPU cool and quiet. An aftermarket cooler just isn't needed unless you overclock, so I'd suggest using the stock cooler. You'll be pleasantly surprised. You can then upgrade it later if/when you decide to tinker with clockspeeds.

You're right on the 33 Plus probably the Frozen 33 is enough, the Plus might be useful for light OC in future?

The regular Freezer 33 can handle a light/moderate overclock too. The performance difference between these two is probably about 2-3C, that is, a typical difference for 1 fan vs 2 fans on the same heat sink.

Nanoxia it's a bit expensive, nothing near €50?

Yes it's a bit expensive but also very good. A good case that's well built and well designed will last very long before it needs to be upgraded. Other components come and go, but given how a case is just a hunk of metal and plastic, it doesn't wear out in use. It can last a decade easily if there aren't any obvious flaws or poor design choices that make you want to get rid of it. So, over time, the cost isn't bad at all. I would much rather buy the Ryzen 5 1600 and a quality case than the 1600X + Freezer 33 and a cheap case.

But, if you want to cheap out here a little, Corsair 100R is pretty good for 50€. Compared to the Nanoxia, it doesn't have as much space, isn't designed with quiet operation in mind, only has two fans (Nanoxia has three, and they're better quality), and the build quality is merely OK (for example, hard disk trays are plastic, not metal).

 

[davide445]

@lehtv 1600+Frozen 33 might make sense and what will reach on OC, with stable and sustainable results? Or need I to have a better cooler. Reading about the auto OC in Ryzen appear to be easy.
The MSI B350 TOMAHAWK board will really allow me to reach a good OC or better something else?

 

[Crono]

I'll agree with lehtv. If you don't plan on overclocking or even apply a mild overclock, the stock Wraith Spire does a fairly good job cooling the 1600. I have mine running at 3.9GHz with the Spire (though I'm swapping it out soon, but I'm pushing for a higher overclock if possible... you could run it quite cool at 3.6-3.8GHz with the Wraith Spire).

You'll save some money going for the 1600. maybe use the difference to get more RAM. Normally I wouldn't recommend going for 32GB RAM for gamers and average users, but your use case sounds like it could be memory-intensive, especially if you are running a few of those programs simultaneously. I would also consider going for the 1700 if your budget allows for it. The combination would be more future-proof, as well, assuming more applications are developed to take advantage of more threads over the next 5 years.

 

[lehtv]

@lehtv 1600+Frozen 33 might make sense and what will reach on OC, with stable and sustainable results. Or need I to have a better cooler. Reading about the auto OC in Ryzen appear to be easy.

Freezer 33 is more or less a typical 120mm tower, similar to the popular 212 EVO (but Freezer is quieter). As such it's definitely enough for a mild overclock of a few hundred MHz.

Mild overclocking won't actually make much of a difference in practice, but something like 500MHz might. At stock, the maximum multithreaded clockspeed of Ryzen 5 1600 is 3.4GHz, I'd estimate Freezer 33 to be enough to bump that up to 3.6-3.7GHz. So, what you're getting with the Freezer 33 is basically just a bump up to 1600X speeds.

If you want to go beyond that, you'll need a beefier board (such as Asus X370-PRO) to ensure cool VRM temperatures and longevity, and a better cooler (such as HR-02 Macho, Noctua D15(S) or a 240/280mm AIO) because Ryzen runs pretty hot when you start upping the voltage. The limit is reached anywhere from 3.8 to 4.0GHz (X models may reach 4.1GHz with extra voltage, not really suitable for 24/7 use). Obviously, overclocking is just a hobby at this point, and has nothing to do with value for money. Overclocking beyond what you can easily reach with a cheap cooler is a practice of fast diminishing returns.

The MSI B350 TOMAHAWK board will really allow me to reach a good OC or better something else.

It should be fine for a mild OC, it's a decent pairing for the Freezer 33. I should say though, all MSI's AM4 boards apart from the high end X370 Titanium board use some poor quality power delivery components from Niko-Sem, their reliability may be a bit questionable even if you don't overclock. It's really a bit of a lottery, it could be fine or it could bust in a few years. I'd suggest changing the board to Gigabyte B350 Gaming-3 or Asus B350-Plus, unless you want to pay the extra for the top quality Asus X370-PRO that can handle higher overclocks as well. Who knows, maybe with future AM4 processor generations, overclockability will improve and a beefy VRM will be more relevant?

 

[davide445]

@Crono @lehtv
Ok for the 1600, I'll start with Spire and / bit of OC to see.
Will look for the b350 mobo, the choice will be btw MSI, Asrock, Asus.
About the case I'm in doubt reading some reviews about the included fan, noise, heat, easiness, strongness, room for all the components (i.e. if I want to later purchase a bigger or water CPU cooler).
Do you have suggestions looking at this list
https://it.pcpartpicker.com/products/case/#X=6561,9199&t=3&p=0&u=1&f=2&sort=d6&page=1

 

[lehtv]

@Crono @lehtv
Ok for the 1600, I'll start with Spire and / bit of OC to see.
Will look for the b350 mobo, the choice will be btw MSI, Asrock, Asus.
About the case I'm in doubt reading some reviews about the included fan, noise, heat, easiness, strongness, room for all the components (i.e. if I want to later purchase a bigger or water CPU cooler).

You're referring to the Corsair 100R here, right?

Do you have suggestions looking at this list
https://it.pcpartpicker.com/products/case/#X=6561,9199&t=3&p=0&u=1&f=2&sort=d6&page=1

Well, the Nanoxia DS3 I originally suggested is in that list...

Define C is another good one, although it lacks the 5.25" slot for the DVD drive. If you really need to use a DVD drive these days, you can still buy an external USB drive.

In the cheaper end, you're not going to find options that are much better than the 100R. Core 2300/2500, SPEC-02/03, Deepcool Tesseract, 200R are all decent enough cases but still quite basic just like the 100R.

 

[davide445]

@lehtv no the 100R is really basic and I didn't consider it
I definitely need a DVD drive, so I'll need an external 5.25" bay, and I suppose at least an internal 3.5" and 2.5" for HDD and SSD (there are reasons since external drive bay are better than internal?), so the list will change in this way
https://it.pcpartpicker.com/product...0&u=1&f=2&sort=d6&page=1&G=1,12&J=1,20&K=1,12
The Nanoxia is nice with also two included fan, just always want to have a second good option for comparison, something silent but also good airflow for cooling and maintain components healthy.

 

[lehtv]

The only cases on that list designed specifically with quiet operation in mind:
- Define R4 (2-4 week delivery time but otherwise a very good choice)
- be Quiet! Pure Base 600, not a bad case but IMO not as good as Nanoxia
- Nanoxia DS3 (which actually has three preinstalled fans)

That's not to say other cases will necessarily be loud. Any case can be quiet if you run fans at low speeds and choose quiet CPU & GPU cooling. Freezer 33 qualifies as quiet. Don't know about your GPU, you haven't mentioned what card you have.

I think your options are pretty clear - DS3 or BeQuiet Pure Base 600 if you want a properly quiet and good quality case, or Core 2300/2500 or Corsair 100R/200R if you want to save some money. Most of the other brands are not worth considering.

 

[davide445]

My GPU will be the current one, Sapphire HD 7950 Dual-X with Boost.
The fact Define R4 is much older than the others will give him some problems or will be fine.
And what about the CM 590 III I didn’t find any review.

 

[lehtv]

Define R4 may be a few years old but it's still a very good case and has basically all the modern features you'd expect. There's little difference between that and the newer R5, in fact some people prefer the R4.

CM 590 III looks fine to me. Very similar to 100R and Core 2500 in terms of the layout and features. It has dust filter on the top as well which is a welcome bonus in this price range. The LED fans I'm not too excited about, and they're probably not as quiet as those on the Core 2500.

edit typo

 

[davide445]

R4 and DS3 are really nice.
Since they are focused on silent running this might mean they sacrifice internal temp?
Can't understand if some of the other in the list is optimized backward, lower temp and more noise. Maybe better for OC?
I'm not scared of about few more dB (my current case is partially open due the need for external power for the GPU), caring more for system longevity.

 

[Crono]

Out of those cases, I would personally go with the Phanteks Enthoo Pro M and add 4x 140mm fans to it. It comes with 1x 140mm fan, for the exhaust, and I'd probably go with Phanteks PH-F140SP or Rosewill ROCF-11003 ("Hyperborea", which is essentially a rebranded Akasa Viper, which may be easier to find on Amazon Italy) for the top and front, and use splitters for PWM or a fan controller if needed, depending on what you go with. You'll get good airflow, relatively low noise, and minimize dust (especially if you position the top fans as intake fans, too, for positive pressure) thanks to the dust filters. It's a very well-reviewed case and a good value at that price, in my opinion.

I'm likely doing that myself soon with the tempered glass version of the Enthoo Pro M with the Ryzen 5 1600, as I'm finding there's not enough airflow for SLI between the video cards in my current open air case (I should have gone for blower cards...).

The Be Quiet! Pure Base 600 also looks good if your priority is a quiet case that includes quiet fans with decent airflow. Be Quiet! and Phanteks make great fans that they also use in their cases, so I'm partial to them.

 

[lehtv]

R4 and DS3 are really nice.
Since they are focused on silent running this might mean they sacrifice internal temp?

The front panel is a little bit more restrictive in terms of airflow, but other than that, no. If you run the same number of fans at the same RPM as in non-silent cases, you should get roughly the temperatures but at a lower noise level.

I'm not scared of about few more dB (my current case is partially open due the need for external power for the GPU), caring more for system longevity.

Running a quiet PC doesn't sacrifice longevity as long as your temperatures are still fine. People tend to overstate the need for low temperatures. Typically, if
- your CPU and GPU are running under 80C at load
- your motherboard VRM is good quality and doesn't overheat/throttle
- your have at least a few fans in the system to prevent heat pockets
then your system's lifetime is almost certainly going to be easily longer than the time it takes for tech to become obsolete and outdated.

 

[lehtv]

The Be Quiet! Pure Base 600 also looks good if your priority is a quiet case that includes quiet fans with decent airflow. Be Quiet! and Phanteks make great fans that they also use in their cases, so I'm partial to them.

Fractal Design's and Nanoxia's cases also come preinstalled with retail fans that are just as good as those from Be Quiet! and Phanteks. None of these cases use cheap sleeve bearing fans

 

[Crono]

Fractal Design's and Nanoxia's cases also come preinstalled with retail fans that are just as good as those from Be Quiet! and Phanteks. None of these cases use cheap sleeve bearing fans

I don't disagree, I'm just stating what I would go with. There are other good options, too, aside from the ones already mentioned, it just depends where in the spectrum between silence and performance the OP wants to narrow down his decision.

 

[davide445]

Since the rig need to last and manage increasingly heavy activities I will prioritize performance over silence.

 

[lehtv]

Since the rig need to last and manage increasingly heavy activities I will prioritize performance over silence.

As I said, there's no issue with longevity as long as your temperatures are still within safe limits. And you don't need necessarily to compromise between the silence and cooling performance when choosing a case, only when choosing how many fans to use and at what speeds. The thing with silent cases is they have better noise-to-performance ratio, than cheaper cases not worse performance per se.

 

[davide445]

Got it, so I suppose I can safely choose btw R4 and DS3.
Was making a bit of sums for the power, simulating on PCPARTPICKER the whole system with GPU, HDD, DVD etc he stated 389w are needed + 17w for Kinect + about 50w for OC Ryzen 1600 we came at 456w.
A 80 gold 550w PSU will push out in perfect conditions about 479w @87% efficiency.
Question is if I need I to look for a bigger one for future proof and safe usage, and if a modular will make any difference for my needs.

 

[lehtv]

That wattage sounds extremely high, it should be closer to about 250-300W in a typical gaming load, 300-350W with overclocking.

550W Gold will be fine, but 650W typically costs something like $10-20 more. Given that you can get 7-10 year warranty with a good quality Gold unit, having that 100W extra just in case is certainly not a bad idea.

 

[davide445]

Using the various online PSU calculator they suggest a 450w PSU for an estimated 390w power consumption so I probably overestimate the OC effect.
This is a list of 80+ gold 550/650w modular or semi-modular max Eu 100 if you have any suggestion
https://it.pcpartpicker.com/products/power-supply/#e=4&W=550,650&p=1,2&X=0,10320

 

[lehtv]

The XFX TS550 you mentioned in the original post is probably the best value. But if you want to pay more for a quieter fan, modular cables, longer warranty, more capacity:

Seasonic G650 94€
- 5 year warranty (XFX is also 5)
- semi-modular cables
- very quiet (but not semi passive)

Corsair RM550x 100€
- 10 year warranty
- fully modular
- very quiet (semi passive fan)