Ryan's "breathtakingly dishonest speech"

[OneOfTheseDays]

Factcheck.org did a great job summarizing the incredible lies, mistruths, and outright deception in his speech.

http://factcheck.org/2012/08/ryans-vp-spin/

It appears Romney and co. have made a calculated decision that they can say whatever they want, regardless of actual fact, and not suffer consequences for it. It's a pretty damning statement about our media that they refuse to call politicians to task on this (on both sides). It's speaks even more to our ill-informed electorate that refuses to educate itself.

I do not like this direction in politics, and neither should anyone on either side of the aisle. We're truly in bad shape as a nation when we have political parties and media refusing to report the facts as thy are.

 

[dmcowen674]

Factcheck.org did a great job summarizing the incredible lies, mistruths, and outright deception in his speech.

http://factcheck.org/2012/08/ryans-vp-spin/

It appears Romney and co. have made a calculated decision that they can say whatever they want, regardless of actual fact, and not suffer consequences for it. It's a pretty damning statement about our media that they refuse to call politicians to task on this (on both sides). It's speaks even more to our ill-informed electorate that refuses to educate itself.

I do not like this direction in politics, and neither should anyone on either side of the aisle. We're truly in bad shape as a nation when we have political parties and media refusing to report the facts as thy are.

Saw the Factcheck guy a couple of days ago and said they are exhausted and can't keep up with all the Republican lies.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Factcheck.org did a great job summarizing the incredible lies, mistruths, and outright deception in his speech.

http://factcheck.org/2012/08/ryans-vp-spin/

It appears Romney and co. have made a calculated decision that they can say whatever they want, regardless of actual fact, and not suffer consequences for it. It's a pretty damning statement about our media that they refuse to call politicians to task on this (on both sides). It's speaks even more to our ill-informed electorate that refuses to educate itself.

I do not like this direction in politics, and neither should anyone on either side of the aisle. We're truly in bad shape as a nation when we have political parties and media refusing to report the facts as thy are.

How many more threads on this we going to need? There's 2 or three on the front page already.

 

[Matt1970]

Already posted and already debunked.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2267398

 

[Pens1566]

#notintendedtobeafactualstatement wasn't just a one off.

 

[Bowfinger]

Already posted and already debunked.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2267398

Not. As I pointed out in the other thread:

Man, you guys need to learn to start thinking for yourselves and checking your facts instead of eagerly guzzling whatever the RNC propaganda mill wants to shoot down your throats. Obama gave that speech on February 13, 2008. GM announced it was shutting down production on June 3, 2008. Since dates and math and facts and such seem to be a challenge for your preferred "news" sources, let me help you out. February is BEFORE June. Obama had no idea GM would close the plant when he made that speech.

In short, you guys have been played once again.
​

You're welcome.

 

[Dari]

Once the Republicans saw the Democrats play hardball in ads and other places, they decided to take it one notch lower and just start straight up lying. The race to the bottom continues. I predict that the RNC will start sanctioning the wholesale murder of their political opponents in 2016. You've heard it here first.

 

[Matt1970]

[■Faulted Obama for failing to deliver a 2008 campaign promise to keep a Wisconsin plant open. It closed less than a month before Obama took office.

The plant ceased production in April 2009, Obama took office in January 2009

 

[MomentsofSanity]

The plant ceased production in April 2009, Obama took office in January 2009

The were 6000 people working at that plant. From December 23 until its closure in April there were 57 production workers finishing w truck order and 40-50 people working to decommission the plant. Are you really going to use the clearly misleading statement that the plant was open until April without acknowledging that over 98% of the jobs were gone?

 

[JKing106]

Seems everyone is calling Ryan on his lies. Even the beloved, "Fair and Balanced" Fox.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ul-ryan_n_1842580.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Original column:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/#ixzz251rvLkSe

 

[JKing106]

Are you really going to use the clearly misleading statement that the plant was open until April without acknowledging that over 98% of the jobs were gone?

If it means smearing Obama? Damn right he will. He's a Republican, after all.

 

[Matt1970]

The were 6000 people working at that plant. From December 23 until its closure in April there were 57 production workers finishing w truck order and 40-50 people working to decommission the plant. Are you really going to use the clearly misleading statement that the plant was open until April without acknowledging that over 98% of the jobs were gone?

Stop spinning this shit off. Reguardless of what I say, Obama promised to keep the factory open. There were still people working there when he took office. It closed while he was in office.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Stop spinning this shit off. Reguardless of what I say, Obama promised to keep the factory open. There were still people working there when he took office. It closed while he was in office.

No these are not the facts. He never explicitly promised to keep this plant open or operating. That is a bold, outright, lie with NO factual evidence whatsoever. You are precisely part of the problem I am talking about.

A low information voter that refuses to educate him/herself.

 

[mshan]

Take solace and don't get so worked up, OP:


1) Crowd at the Villages in Florida for Ryan's formal introduction was apparently significantly less than Palin's in 2008.

2) TV viewership for first two days of RNC is also supposed to be down from Palin in 2008.

3) It's still 2 months out from election and Obama still has DNC to educate truly persuadables (i. e. voted for Obama in 2008, thinking they were getting FDR, now realize they got H. W. Bush, and are temporarily demoralized or disillusioned with him) to stay the course because a new Morning in America (http://news.morningstar.com/article..._LPAGE=/FORBIDDEN/CONTENTARCHIVED.HTML&_BPA=N) might be just a few years away (when uncertainty over fiscal cliff type issues have been resolved and U. S. consumer has completed deleveraging of debt from bubble years). And in Obama's defense, you have to remember he did not come from an aristocratic family with lots of already in place political connections / influence, or have a daddy ("W") or be a cousin of former president (FDR). If he gets re-elected, especially if he can drag along some Congressional Democrats, he would hopefully have more political capital to be bolder in his second term. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/06/18/120618fa_fact_lizza (?)

Strong foundation is being built now, it is just not palpable enough for most people (i. e. those who have full time jobs and are comfortable they won't get fired now) to realize that they truly are better off than they were 4 years ago (when everyone feared if when they went home on Friday whether they would have a job on Monday, or even if the business they worked for had to close it's doors over weekend because bank it depends on for line of credit to keep doors open went out of business or started hoarding cash / no longer lending because they were just as scared about their own survival as you were about your job at that time, too).

T. D. Ameritrade's "Enlightened Investor" magazine (fall 2008 edition):


The Strategist (page 20)

"But on the horizon are growing concerns over proposed changes to the current capital gains and dividend income tax rates, wich appear likely to rise regardless of who is in office."

"If we have a Democratic president and Congress, we'll probably see a higher capital gains tax, a higher top tax bracket and a lower estate-tax exemption, all of which could hurt the stock market. With a Republican in office, it still looks as though tax rates will go higher, but the estate-tax exemption could be a bit more favorable than under the Democrats. Regardless, any real impact from new tax policy won't be felt until late 2009 or 2010."


Stock market returns (chart on page 3) :


Average Annual Returns:
- Democrat: 9.0%
- Republican: 5.8%

Cumulative Return on $10,000:
- Democrat: $315,449
- Republican: $73,536

Average Annual Returns (individual administrations):
- FDR 7.5%
- Truman 8.3%
- Eisenhower 10.9%
- Kennedy 6.5%
- LBJ 7.7%
- Nixon -3.9%
- Ford 10.8%
- Carter 6.9%
- Reagan 10.2%
- H. W. Bush 11.0%
- Clinton 15.2%
- George W Bush -0.8% (through 8/25/08)


(in reconciling average annual returns with the cumulative gain on $10,000 statistic above, I'm guessing that Republican administrations have represented giant boom and bust cycles where lots of money was made, lots of money was lost, but the net overall effect was simply transfer of wealth, rather than gains that hold significantly over time?)


Also: http://www.bluevirginia.us/diary/73...our-wallet-dems-outperform-republicans-by-far

http://election.princeton.edu/ (his track record in 2008 was supposedly as good as Nate Silver of 538 fame)



:biggrin:

 

[umbrella39]

No these are not the facts. He never explicitly promised to keep this plant open or operating. That is a bold, outright, lie with NO factual evidence whatsoever. You are precisely part of the problem I am talking about.

A low information voter that refuses to educate him/herself.

It is really sad to watch someone so spoon fed what to think be unable to break from script and admit when they are wrong. I have been lied to? Does not compute... fingers in ears, la la la la la. Yeah, we got it...

 

[Matt1970]

No these are not the facts. He never explicitly promised to keep this plant open or operating. That is a bold, outright, lie with NO factual evidence whatsoever. You are precisely part of the problem I am talking about.

A low information voter that refuses to educate him/herself.

Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

Now explain to me how that quote is Obama promising to explicitly keep this plant alive? That's a wild stretch of the truth that would never hold up in a court of law.

Again, you are a low information voter that refuses to educate him/herself.

 

[Matt1970]

Now explain to me how that quote is Obama promising to explicitly keep this plant alive? That's a wild stretch of the truth that would never hold up in a court of law.

Again, you are a low information voter that refuses to educate him/herself.

this plant will be here for another hundred years - Is that is a font you don't recognize?

 

[Bowfinger]

Now explain to me how that quote is Obama promising to explicitly keep this plant alive? That's a wild stretch of the truth that would never hold up in a court of law.

Again, you are a low information voter that refuses to educate him/herself.

Also remember the inconvenient facts Matt is trying so desperately to ignore. GM announced they were shutting down production long after Obama's speech, and well before Obama took office. The only scenario in which Mattie's spin is valid is if he assumes Obama had a time machine to change things in the past. (Perhaps Matt believes he does, just like he did with his birth announcement. Who knows?)

 

[Bowfinger]

this plant will be here for another hundred years - Is that is a font you don't recognize?

"If". Is that word beyond the grasp of your miniature partisan brain?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

this plant will be here for another hundred years - Is that is a font you don't recognize?

Re-read what he said. You cannot prove that he ever explicitly PROMISED to keep the plant open. That's not what he's saying. This is basic reading comprehension man. Do you really not understand this?

You've got multiple people pointing out the same thing to you man. Can you at least entertain the notion that you're actually wrong? Is that a possibility for you? Seriously.

 

[Matt1970]

Re-read what he said. You cannot prove that he ever explicitly PROMISED to keep the plant open. That's not what he's saying. This is basic reading comprehension man. Do you really not understand this?

You ever watch cops, where they catch a guy on tape commiting a crime, they show him the video with his face clear as day and he still says "Wasn't Me" - That's you pal.

 

[JKing106]

He doesn't care. He's just playing kill the "librul." Logic doesn't enter into it.

 

[Matt1970]

"If". Is that word beyond the grasp of your miniature partisan brain?

And the Government WAS there to support them.

 

[Bowfinger]

He doesn't care. He's just playing kill the "librul." Logic doesn't enter into it.

Honesty doesn't enter into it. Just like Romney, Ryan, and Rove, he will say anything to support the RNC. Truthfulness in a non-factor.