Russia cutting all military ties with NATO

[jpeyton]

:laugh:

The US is getting red-faced.

Russia now says they'll be out in 10 days. This was after saying they'd be out on Monday, then Friday.

Political gold.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Fern
From TLC's link

"Let me make one thing clear," he interrupts me, with a sudden gravity. "We cannot let them say that we started this war ... It was early August. My ministers were on vacation, as I was too, in Italy, at a weight-loss spa, getting ready to go to Beijing. Then in the Italian press I read, "War preparations are under way in Georgia." You understand me. Here I was just hanging out in Italy and I read in the paper that my own country is preparing for a war! Realizing that something was wrong, I rushed back to Tbilisi. And what did my intelligence services tell me?" He makes the face of someone who has posed a difficult riddle and is waiting for you to find the answer, "That the Russians at the exact moment they are showering the press corps with this garbage are also emptying Shrinvali of its inhabitants, they're massing troops and troop transports, positioning fuel trucks on Georgian soil, and finally, sending columns of tanks through the Roky tunnel which separates the two Ossetias. Now, suppose you are the leader of the country and you hear this, what do you do?" He gets up to answer two cell phones which are ringing at the same time on his desk, comes back, stretching out his long legs ... "After the hundred and fiftieth tank lines itself up facing your cities, you are forced to admit that the war has begun, and despite the disproportion in the forces opposing us, you no longer have a choice."

So who started this?

Fern

Wait a minute. The president of a country read in a NEWSPAPER that his country was preparing for war??? How the hell long does it take to get word to your head of state that the shit has hit the fan??? Did he forget to leave the number to the weight-loss spa or something?

I don't think you get the point.

They were not preparing for war (according to him). How the h3ll could they, nobody was *home*?

He's claiming that was false info spoon-fed to the press by Russia in preparation for their attack.

Ironic in that many here claim Georgia tried to use Putin's absence in China, and he claims Russia used his (and his ministers) absence.

Moreover, I think his claims that he and other minsters were absent could be proven. If true, Russia is clearly the guilty party and all claims that Georgia started it using the advantage of Putin's absence are clearly false. NO country starts a war with their President abroad at a spa.

Fern

That is just so fucked up...

How the hell do you explain the Georgian retreat out of South Ossetia if the Georgians never invaded South Ossetia in the first place? This is the first time I have heard anybody so disconnected from reality they don't even know that Georgia invaded South Ossetia in the first place....

You guys are just too gullible and YET AGAIN SUCK UP neocon spin and propaganda... This is just disgusting do you guys NEVER learn? :roll:

 

[theeedude]

Saakashvili can say whatever he wants, he is a known liar. If 150 Russian tanks were already in South Ossetia when he started shelling Tskhinvali, do you think the Russians would have let Georgia continue doing so for a whole day, and also fly its airforce's Su-25s with impunity over those tanks in South Ossetia? At the very least they would have secured air superiority immediately to protect their forces. I guess Misha thinks if he repeats his BS enough times it will make it true, prolly learned that from our president's Iraq WMD lies.
It's no wonder Saakashvili's thugs trashed opposition TV stations a couple years back, and are now blocking Russian news sites.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
:laugh:

The US is getting red-faced.

Russia now says they'll be out in 10 days. This was after saying they'd be out on Monday, then Friday.

Political gold.

Heh, why should the Russians pull out when the US has publicly stated they will embrace the murderous Sakaashvili regime and award it with NATO membership?

It will be interesting to see if Russia pulls out as long as Saakashvili remains in power. To me it looks like a lose lose situation for Russia if they do.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili can say whatever he wants, he is a known liar. If 150 Russian tanks were already in South Ossetia when he started shelling Tskhinvali, do you think the Russians would have let Georgia continue doing so for a whole day, and also fly its airforce's Su-25s with impunity over those tanks in South Ossetia? At the very least they would have secured air superiority immediately to protect their forces. I guess Misha thinks if he repeats his BS enough times it will make it true, prolly learned that from our president's Iraq WMD lies.
It's no wonder Saakashvili's thugs trashed opposition TV stations a couple years back, and are now blocking Russian news sites.

Saakashvili runs a police state. He is no different than Putin really. It is extremely humorous to see US propaganda paint him as some kind of democratic hero. It is just the same old, same old US propaganda again. Amazing that people still buy into that propaganda. Say what you will but at least the Soviets knew that Pravda was full of shit. Sadly too many Americans today still lap up the MSM propaganda bullshit word for word.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili can say whatever he wants, he is a known liar. If 150 Russian tanks were already in South Ossetia when he started shelling Tskhinvali, do you think the Russians would have let Georgia continue doing so for a whole day, and also fly its airforce's Su-25s with impunity over those tanks in South Ossetia? At the very least they would have secured air superiority immediately to protect their forces. I guess Misha thinks if he repeats his BS enough times it will make it true, prolly learned that from our president's Iraq WMD lies.
It's no wonder Saakashvili's thugs trashed opposition TV stations a couple years back, and are now blocking Russian news sites.

Saakashvili is pretty full of it, but the Russians have bullshit running out their ears.

His crackdowns on media opposed to him aren't good but to defend Russia as beacon of truth in all of this is beyond preposterous given what that government has done to the press in its country. Reporters that dissent from the Russian government line have a nasty habit of turning up dead.

 

[Trianon]

Originally posted by: K1052
Saakashvili is pretty full of it, but the Russians have bullshit running out their ears.

His crackdowns on media opposed to him aren't good but to defend Russia as beacon of truth in all of this is beyond preposterous given what that government has done to the press in its country. Reporters that dissent from the Russian government line have a nasty habit of turning up dead.

Suckashivilli taking care of his opponents

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili can say whatever he wants, he is a known liar. If 150 Russian tanks were already in South Ossetia when he started shelling Tskhinvali, do you think the Russians would have let Georgia continue doing so for a whole day, and also fly its airforce's Su-25s with impunity over those tanks in South Ossetia? At the very least they would have secured air superiority immediately to protect their forces. I guess Misha thinks if he repeats his BS enough times it will make it true, prolly learned that from our president's Iraq WMD lies.
It's no wonder Saakashvili's thugs trashed opposition TV stations a couple years back, and are now blocking Russian news sites.

Saakashvili is pretty full of it, but the Russians have bullshit running out their ears.

His crackdowns on media opposed to him aren't good but to defend Russia as beacon of truth in all of this is beyond preposterous given what that government has done to the press in its country. Reporters that dissent from the Russian government line have a nasty habit of turning up dead.

I didn't defend Russia as a beacon of truth, but it also does not go around parading as a beacon of democracy like Georgia does, and it's not being put up by the West as regional example of Democracy, like Georgia is. Also, the western media continues to report what Saakashvili is feeding them as facts, and completely ignores that he started this whole mess by trying to take by force what is not his to take by force and killing hundreds of civilians and dozens of Russian peacekeepers in the process. Saakashvili is a bully, and just because there was a bigger bully to smack him down, doesn't mean we should be taking his side.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: senseamp

I didn't defend Russia as a beacon of truth, but it also does not go around parading as a beacon of democracy like Georgia does, and it's not being put up by the West as regional example of Democracy, like Georgia is. Also, the western media continues to report what Saakashvili is feeding them as facts, and completely ignores that he started this whole mess by trying to take by force what is not his to take by force and killing hundreds of civilians and dozens of Russian peacekeepers in the process. Saakashvili is a bully, and just because there was a bigger bully to smack him down, doesn't mean we should be taking his side.

As S. Ossetia had no recognition by anyone and the Russians left it behind at the end of the cold war as a outside their border and inside Georgia's border by default, as such I think the Georgians have an argument at least. Given the actions of the S. Ossetian militants prior to the Georgian offensive I think it is fairly clear that Putin masterminded the conflict and arrayed the press to make it look like self defense unless you look into the history of the region and Russia's concerns/ambitions. I also see Russia has revised the death count in S. Ossetia from thousands down to hundreds. The issue is not anywhere near as clear cut as you're claiming.

Georgia's democracy is certainly imperfect and needs further reform. There is no dictator for life...excuse me...I meant Prime Minster Putin in absolute power though.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili can say whatever he wants, he is a known liar. If 150 Russian tanks were already in South Ossetia when he started shelling Tskhinvali, do you think the Russians would have let Georgia continue doing so for a whole day, and also fly its airforce's Su-25s with impunity over those tanks in South Ossetia? At the very least they would have secured air superiority immediately to protect their forces. I guess Misha thinks if he repeats his BS enough times it will make it true, prolly learned that from our president's Iraq WMD lies.
It's no wonder Saakashvili's thugs trashed opposition TV stations a couple years back, and are now blocking Russian news sites.

Saakashvili is pretty full of it, but the Russians have bullshit running out their ears.

His crackdowns on media opposed to him aren't good but to defend Russia as beacon of truth in all of this is beyond preposterous given what that government has done to the press in its country. Reporters that dissent from the Russian government line have a nasty habit of turning up dead.

I didn't defend Russia as a beacon of truth, but it also does not go around parading as a beacon of democracy like Georgia does, and it's not being put up by the West as regional example of Democracy, like Georgia is. Also, the western media continues to report what Saakashvili is feeding them as facts, and completely ignores that he started this whole mess by trying to take by force what is not his to take by force and killing hundreds of civilians and dozens of Russian peacekeepers in the process. Saakashvili is a bully, and just because there was a bigger bully to smack him down, doesn't mean we should be taking his side.

As S. Ossetia had no recognition by anyone and the Russians left it behind at the end of the cold war as a outside their border and inside Georgia's border by default, as such I think the Georgians have an argument at least. Given the actions of the S. Ossetian militants prior to the Georgian offensive I think it is fairly clear that Putin masterminded the conflict and arrayed the press to make it look like self defense unless you look into the history of the region and Russia's concerns/ambitions. I also see Russia has revised the death count in S. Ossetia from thousands down to hundreds. The issue is not anywhere near as clear cut as you're claiming.

Georgia's democracy is certainly imperfect and needs further reform. There is no dictator for life...excuse me...I meant Prime Minster Putin in absolute power though.

S. Ossetia never went with Georgia when it seceded from USSR, and independent Georgia never got control of that territory. Their only claim to it is that it was part of Georgian SSR under USSR, but when they tried to take it with them, Ossetians said, "No, Thanks", and proceeded to kick Georgians' butt. That is what started this conflict in the 90s, which was supposed to be resolved through political negotiations. Georgia decided it would be better to settle it by force, and it got its wish, just not the way it expected. Now, it is settled, by force.
Georgia's military has been encroaching on S. Ossetia and Abkhazia for months seizing territory, and there have been altercations between them and the separatists for months because of that. The Georgians waited till the start of the Olympics to launch their major attack to settle it once and for all, and for a whole day they had their way with Tskhinvali before the Russians smacked them, and smacked them hard, but probably not hard enough, because I don't think men like Saakashvili get the message.
Russia said they identified hundreds of corpses, doesn't mean that is the death toll.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-

Wait a minute. The president of a country read in a NEWSPAPER that his country was preparing for war??? How the hell long does it take to get word to your head of state that the shit has hit the fan??? Did he forget to leave the number to the weight-loss spa or something?

I don't think you get the point.

They were not preparing for war (according to him). How the h3ll could they, nobody was *home*?

He's claiming that was false info spoon-fed to the press by Russia in preparation for their attack.

Ironic in that many here claim Georgia tried to use Putin's absence in China, and he claims Russia used his (and his ministers) absence.

Moreover, I think his claims that he and other minsters were absent could be proven. If true, Russia is clearly the guilty party and all claims that Georgia started it using the advantage of Putin's absence are clearly false. NO country starts a war with their President abroad at a spa.

Fern

That is just so fucked up...

How the hell do you explain the Georgian retreat out of South Ossetia if the Georgians never invaded South Ossetia in the first place? This is the first time I have heard anybody so disconnected from reality they don't even know that Georgia invaded South Ossetia in the first place....

You guys are just too gullible and YET AGAIN SUCK UP neocon spin and propaganda... This is just disgusting do you guys NEVER learn? :roll:

I don't understand why your panties are all knotted up.

I was just explaining what I thouight the guy was saying in the news report (Shrug).

Neocon spin and propaganda? WTH do they have to do with this? Jeez :roll:

Fern

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: K1052

S. Ossetia never went with Georgia when it seceded from USSR, and independent Georgia never got control of that territory. Their only claim to it is that it was part of Georgian SSR under USSR, but when they tried to take it with them, Ossetians said, "No, Thanks", and proceeded to kick Georgians' butt. That is what started this conflict in the 90s, which was supposed to be resolved through political negotiations. Georgia decided it would be better to settle it by force, and it got its wish, just not the way it expected. Now, it is settled, by force.
Georgia's military has been encroaching on S. Ossetia and Abkhazia for months seizing territory, and there have been altercations between them and the separatists for months because of that. The Georgians waited till the start of the Olympics to launch their major attack to settle it once and for all, and for a whole day they had their way with Tskhinvali before the Russians smacked them, and smacked them hard, but probably not hard enough, because I don't think men like Saakashvili get the message.
Russia said they identified hundreds of corpses, doesn't mean that is the death toll.

If Russia was actually concerned about this when the USSR broke up they wouldn't have left S. Ossetia to fend for itself as part of what even they considered Georgia. Russia is now exploiting the problem for it's own convenience. The got the S. Ossetians to step up attacks inside Georgia to prompt the Georgian offensive knowing it would be an easy sell to Saakashvili as he had long promised to bring it back into the fold. The premise that the noble Russians are battling the evil Georgians out of concern for human life is so slanted that I'd consider it, at a minimum, ridiculous and intellectually insulting .

With Russia acting as the primary mediator there was no way a compromise the Georgians could live with would ever be produced as there was no incentive on Russia's part to stabilize the region, quite the opposite.

Even Human Rights Watch could find no evidence of the thousands of deaths in Tskhinvali the Russians claimed the Georgian artillery caused. The Russians have vastly over dramatized the actual events just as much as the Georgians have.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: senseamp
-snip-
S. Ossetia never went with Georgia when it seceded from USSR, and independent Georgia never got control of that territory.

?

From Wiki:

The United Nations, European Union, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Council of the European Union, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and all other countries in the world recognize South Ossetia as part of Georgia.

Fern

 

[ranmaniac]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: senseamp
-snip-
S. Ossetia never went with Georgia when it seceded from USSR, and independent Georgia never got control of that territory.

?

From Wiki:

The United Nations, European Union, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Council of the European Union, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and all other countries in the world recognize South Ossetia as part of Georgia.

Fern

Then why would Georgia attack South Ossetia if they are supposed to be part of Georgia?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: senseamp
-snip-
S. Ossetia never went with Georgia when it seceded from USSR, and independent Georgia never got control of that territory.

?

From Wiki:

The United Nations, European Union, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Council of the European Union, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and all other countries in the world recognize South Ossetia as part of Georgia.

Fern

Are you two saying there is no historical precedence for a territory declaring independence from their internationally recognized government?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: senseamp
-snip-
S. Ossetia never went with Georgia when it seceded from USSR, and independent Georgia never got control of that territory.

?

From Wiki:

The United Nations, European Union, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Council of the European Union, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and all other countries in the world recognize South Ossetia as part of Georgia.

Fern

Then why would Georgia attack South Ossetia if they are supposed to be part of Georgia?

S.O has a seperatists movement and wants to be independant. There are several such areas in Georgia, a country small enough as it is.

I've never been there, I can only imagine it's not much of a melting pot, but more like a tossed salad with different enclaves of different ethnic groups here and there.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: ranmaniac

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: senseamp
-snip-
S. Ossetia never went with Georgia when it seceded from USSR, and independent Georgia never got control of that territory.

?

From Wiki:

The United Nations, European Union, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Council of the European Union, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and all other countries in the world recognize South Ossetia as part of Georgia.

Fern

Are you two saying there is no historical precedence for a territory declaring independence from their internationally recognized government?

What?

How the heck do you read that into my post?

I'm just responding to senseamp remark. I suppose he may be part right though. IDK if Georgia was ever able to gain complete control over S.O.

Fern

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili can say whatever he wants, he is a known liar. If 150 Russian tanks were already in South Ossetia when he started shelling Tskhinvali, do you think the Russians would have let Georgia continue doing so for a whole day, and also fly its airforce's Su-25s with impunity over those tanks in South Ossetia? At the very least they would have secured air superiority immediately to protect their forces. I guess Misha thinks if he repeats his BS enough times it will make it true, prolly learned that from our president's Iraq WMD lies.
It's no wonder Saakashvili's thugs trashed opposition TV stations a couple years back, and are now blocking Russian news sites.

Saakashvili is pretty full of it, but the Russians have bullshit running out their ears.

His crackdowns on media opposed to him aren't good but to defend Russia as beacon of truth in all of this is beyond preposterous given what that government has done to the press in its country. Reporters that dissent from the Russian government line have a nasty habit of turning up dead.

I didn't defend Russia as a beacon of truth, but it also does not go around parading as a beacon of democracy like Georgia does, and it's not being put up by the West as regional example of Democracy, like Georgia is. Also, the western media continues to report what Saakashvili is feeding them as facts, and completely ignores that he started this whole mess by trying to take by force what is not his to take by force and killing hundreds of civilians and dozens of Russian peacekeepers in the process. Saakashvili is a bully, and just because there was a bigger bully to smack him down, doesn't mean we should be taking his side.

As S. Ossetia had no recognition by anyone and the Russians left it behind at the end of the cold war as a outside their border and inside Georgia's border by default, as such I think the Georgians have an argument at least. Given the actions of the S. Ossetian militants prior to the Georgian offensive I think it is fairly clear that Putin masterminded the conflict and arrayed the press to make it look like self defense unless you look into the history of the region and Russia's concerns/ambitions. I also see Russia has revised the death count in S. Ossetia from thousands down to hundreds. The issue is not anywhere near as clear cut as you're claiming.


Georgia's democracy is certainly imperfect and needs further reform. There is no dictator for life...excuse me...I meant Prime Minster Putin in absolute power though.

S. Ossetia never went with Georgia when it seceded from USSR, and independent Georgia never got control of that territory. Their only claim to it is that it was part of Georgian SSR under USSR, but when they tried to take it with them, Ossetians said, "No, Thanks", and proceeded to kick Georgians' butt. That is what started this conflict in the 90s, which was supposed to be resolved through political negotiations. Georgia decided it would be better to settle it by force, and it got its wish, just not the way it expected. Now, it is settled, by force.
Georgia's military has been encroaching on S. Ossetia and Abkhazia for months seizing territory, and there have been altercations between them and the separatists for months because of that. The Georgians waited till the start of the Olympics to launch their major attack to settle it once and for all, and for a whole day they had their way with Tskhinvali before the Russians smacked them, and smacked them hard, but probably not hard enough, because I don't think men like Saakashvili get the message.
Russia said they identified hundreds of corpses, doesn't mean that is the death toll.

If Russia was actually concerned about this when the USSR broke up they wouldn't have left S. Ossetia to fend for itself as part of what even they considered Georgia. Russia is now exploiting the problem for it's own convenience. The got the S. Ossetians to step up attacks inside Georgia to prompt the Georgian offensive knowing it would be an easy sell to Saakashvili as he had long promised to bring it back into the fold. The premise that the noble Russians are battling the evil Georgians out of concern for human life is so slanted that I'd consider it, at a minimum, ridiculous and intellectually insulting .

With Russia acting as the primary mediator there was no way a compromise the Georgians could live with would ever be produced as there was no incentive on Russia's part to stabilize the region, quite the opposite.

Even Human Rights Watch could find no evidence of the thousands of deaths in Tskhinvali the Russians claimed the Georgian artillery caused. The Russians have vastly over dramatized the actual events just as much as the Georgians have.

Russia didn't leave them to fend for themselves. Russian peacekeepers have been there since the first conflict after the dissoluiton of USSR.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: senseamp
-snip-
S. Ossetia never went with Georgia when it seceded from USSR, and independent Georgia never got control of that territory.

?

From Wiki:

The United Nations, European Union, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Council of the European Union, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and all other countries in the world recognize South Ossetia as part of Georgia.

Fern

Doesn't make it reality. Independent Georgia has never governed South Ossetia. South Ossetia never agreed to be part of Georgia, it was arbitrarily put into Georgian SSR by USSR.
Additionally, the status of South Ossetia is to be resolved through negotiations, not force.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: senseamp


Russia didn't leave them to fend for themselves. Russian peacekeepers have been there since the first conflict after the dissoluiton of USSR.

The Soviets let a low to medium grade war between the S. Ossetians and Georgia continue for a year spanning the period of the USSR breakup. It clearly wasn't a very high priority.

 

[Jhhnn]

Maybe the Georgian attempt at a power play in south Ossetia and the Polish missile defense deals were just the last straws of the "In yo' face, biatch!" foreign policy initiatives from the Bush Admin...

Maybe the Russians are fed up with the international equivalent of the Grover Norquist version of bipartisanship...

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: StormRider
If/when Barack Obama becomes president, can we just decide not to place the anti-missile defense system in Poland?

Congress is moving to delay deployment until it can be fully tested, which might be years away. The system also has to be approved by Poland's parliament.

I'd hate to say it, but Russia could and I don't see any reason why not could just bomb the crap out of the instillation when it's built... Russia has the technology to do it. No problem for them... Just send some high altitude bombers and carpet bomb the crap out of the area...

I don't see this as any different as the USA or Israel bombing Iran ... What is the USA gonna do start a nuke war? I doubt it....

Bush is a friggen idiot this isn't Iraq. He doesn't know what he is doing and he could really be playing with fire on this one. I hope he get's his head jammed up his ass on this one.

Once you open up Pandora's box good luck getting that closed again. Maybe bush needs a good ass kicking?

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: StormRider
If/when Barack Obama becomes president, can we just decide not to place the anti-missile defense system in Poland?

Congress is moving to delay deployment until it can be fully tested, which might be years away. The system also has to be approved by Poland's parliament.

I'd hate to say it, but Russia could and I don't see any reason why not could just bomb the crap out of the instillation when it's built... Russia has the technology to do it. No problem for them... Just send some high altitude bombers and carpet bomb the crap out of the area...

I don't see this as any different as the USA or Israel bombing Iran ... What is the USA gonna do start a nuke war? I doubt it....

Bush is a friggen idiot this isn't Iraq. He doesn't know what he is doing and he could really be playing with fire on this one. I hope he get's his head jammed up his ass on this one.

Once you open up Pandora's box good luck getting that closed again. Maybe bush needs a good ass kicking?

So Russia is going to attack Poland and their would be no repercussions? Never gonna happen. I know you guys are having wet dreams about the USA getting "what it deserves", but I hope you are prepared for the consequences. Can you say draft? I am too old for that crap, but all you youngsters better hope that you don't actually get what you are wishing for.......:roll:

 

[ericlp]

I'm not saying Russia would be in the Right. I doubt Poland would be the Lap dog for the USA if Russia threatened them that they will take out any installation America puts into place. I'm just saying Russia could target the installation and bomb it to the ground with minimum damage, I hardly doubt Poland would do anything since it's American BS.

I highly doubt Russia is going to tolerate it. I think it has everything in it's right to defend it's security. Even tho, it may or may not work, it's just a stupid game that bush and his sidekick rice are playing. It's just really stupid to be playing this game with a nation that has many many nukes ... but, I guess you don't see a problem with that.

This what I see could see may happen, If they build it and Russia isn't happy ... They decide to take out the installation ... If Poland attacks Russia then it could be a bloody war, if America steps in, then it could be a WW III and for what? Idiot bush and rice playing games. It just doesn't add up.

I wonder how America would like it when China and Russia start launching Satellites with nukes on board? Are we really gonna play this game? I mean, you start the BS, now you got satellites orbiting the earth and could strike anywhere and any time from space.

My question is WHY and WHY is NO ONE questioning these actions.

Is it worth it? Why throw rocks at a hornets nest? Why start sticking sticks into a fire ant nest? Just because bush didn't get his way? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: ayabe
So exactly WTF is going on here?

Sounds like both Russia and Israel have some explaining to do.

No need, I'll explain it for you: The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The US has been practicing that since its inception. It's the reason we funded Osama, the Taliban and their Mujaheddin. It's the reason we supplied chemical and conventional weapons to Saddam.

When McCain told us "there will be other wars", he wasn't kidding.

If McCain is elected, the US/NATO will go to war with Russia in the Caucuses, running to the aid of his jet-skiing buddy Sackofshitvelli.

Why? So Europe can save some money on their gas bill.

Russia has already said that Georgia will not gain control of the breakaway provinces ever again; they are either going independent, or will be annexed by Russia.

Oy.

I want to know why the MSM has NEVER to my knowledge, ever reported that Russia was supplying arms to Hamas and the Hezbo's.

I want to know why we are continuing to give aid to Israel so they can give it away to someone else.

Finally, I want to know why you are so against Georgia and FOR Russia. Is it just because of McCain? I see that as a separate issue.

There are ZERO credible reports of any human rights violations by Georgian soldiers which was given as the reason for Russia steamrolling.

So you don't believe that Russians help Hez because of this source...but this source is good enough for you to question Israel? Maybe you need to take the glasses off and try to look at the whole picture. Besides, this was a small scirmish, nothing of important, like Kosovo, it will be forgotten in a few years unless people push to make it a big deal. Which they are doing.