running natural gas line to grill

[dartworth]

In Ohio, you can no longer run steel pipe underground for gas. If it is above ground, it must be painted.

and you must be DOT certified to work on the gas line...

 

[Ornery]

Department of Transportation?

So, copper is the way to go, or some kind of plastic?

BTW, what's a permit?

 

[dartworth]

Yes, the US Department of Transportation


I always use plastic. Of course, your local gas company dictates which type of plastic to use.

In my area, Columbia Gas uses a different style of pipe than Dominion?

I tried getting by without a permit to do some siding. The city wanted to fine me $500 for not having one and I couldn't continue till I got a permit.

The permit only cost me $26...next time, I'll pull a permit

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: JinLien
Go ahead and do it yourself if you are confident of the steps below.

1. Get a homeowner permit.
2. Get some threaded IP (Iron Pipe) ½ or ¾ inch (match existing line) may need to get it threaded (free at Home Depot). Purchase black malleable IP fitting, because it is illegal to use cast iron (crack easily).
3. Iron pipe thread dope for gas or yellow coded teflon tape are use at the connections.
4. There are flexible insulated pipe that you can get and uses brass compression fittings, but I?m not sure with the underground usage, because I have only seen it uses in above ground application.
5. Make sure the line that your patch in is (5 psi) before the gas pressure reducing valve of the water heater (need constant 2 psi to get the correct setting for burn rate, most is 3600 BTU for residential. The setting has to be within 10% of the max BTU, otherwise you will have un burn gas, or worse over Oxygen and get Carbon Monoxide). Or move the pressure reducing valve closer to the water heater and make sure that it is before the shutoff valve.
6. You will require to have another pressure reducing valve for the grill before the ball shut off valve (every device require its own pressure reducing valve to take the pressure from 5 psi down to working pressure of 2 psi).
7. Shut off valves handle at shutoff point shall be in the position where it can?t be accidentally turn on due to gravity or bumping.
8. Normally ¼ inch or smaller soft copper pipe is use for the line from IP to grill and it can be compression fitting, flare, or double flare (depending on the fitting that you purchase and the grill). And, cast brass fitting shall be use instead of machined brass fittings (crack easily).
9. Test the new line with 20 psi of pressure from existing IP to grill for at least 20 minutes and use soap/water test at every fitting to make sure that you don?t have any leaks.
10. You will require to clock the meter and set your pressure air/gas mixture at the grill to within 10% of max BTU rating for your grill and it also depends on the elevation of your area (air at high altitude is less than sea level).

[add]

Have an inspector check your work and okay it. Fire insurance will not cover it if the gas line has been tampered with, even with an inspector check off.

I'm confused about #5. I don't see any gas pressure reducing valve... looks like a normal ball-type valve to me?

My water heated looks like it has black pipe coming from the ceiling, then a shutoff valve, then it goes to a ~3ft run of copper.

I was going to install a T directly after the shutoff for the hot water heater. So it would be black line > valve > T fitting going to water heater and grill.

 

[Ornery]

Some citys are nuts about their codes, so they can just bite me as far as pulling permits for every little thing. Having to get a permit for siding on mmy own house would probably make me blow a gasket! I can see the safety issue for a gas line installation, but where do you draw the line? Sheesh, I assume I can swap my stove, gas logs and drier without a permit, right?

I could see zixxer hiring some help here, because it doesn't sound too promising he'll be able to do it himself at this point.

 

[Iron Woode]

After watching many episodes of Holmes on Homes, the need for a permit is for your protection.

A permit requires an onsight inspector to make sure everything is up to code. This is for your own safety.

I see no problem getting a permit when required.

A permit is required here for:

plumbing
structure
electrical
HVAC

 

[Ornery]

I see a problem requiring a permit for too may things. As it is here, it's usually only contractors who have to get permits for putting a roof on a house, or adding structures. I don't think siding or windows require one by anybody.

The homeowner can do almost anything without a permit, except for additions. I've heard NYC requires you to get a licensed plumber and permit to put a stinkin' hot water tank in. FVCK THAT!

 

[JinLien]

Originally posted by: zixxer

Originally posted by: JinLien
Go ahead and do it yourself if you are confident of the steps below.

1. Get a homeowner permit.
2. Get some threaded IP (Iron Pipe) ½ or ¾ inch (match existing line) may need to get it threaded (free at Home Depot). Purchase black malleable IP fitting, because it is illegal to use cast iron (crack easily).
3. Iron pipe thread dope for gas or yellow coded teflon tape are use at the connections.
4. There are flexible insulated pipe that you can get and uses brass compression fittings, but I?m not sure with the underground usage, because I have only seen it uses in above ground application.
5. Make sure the line that your patch in is (5 psi) before the gas pressure reducing valve of the water heater (need constant 2 psi to get the correct setting for burn rate, most is 3600 BTU for residential. The setting has to be within 10% of the max BTU, otherwise you will have un burn gas, or worse over Oxygen and get Carbon Monoxide). Or move the pressure reducing valve closer to the water heater and make sure that it is before the shutoff valve.
6. You will require to have another pressure reducing valve for the grill before the ball shut off valve (every device require its own pressure reducing valve to take the pressure from 5 psi down to working pressure of 2 psi).
7. Shut off valves handle at shutoff point shall be in the position where it can?t be accidentally turn on due to gravity or bumping.
8. Normally ¼ inch or smaller soft copper pipe is use for the line from IP to grill and it can be compression fitting, flare, or double flare (depending on the fitting that you purchase and the grill). And, cast brass fitting shall be use instead of machined brass fittings (crack easily).
9. Test the new line with 20 psi of pressure from existing IP to grill for at least 20 minutes and use soap/water test at every fitting to make sure that you don?t have any leaks.
10. You will require to clock the meter and set your pressure air/gas mixture at the grill to within 10% of max BTU rating for your grill and it also depends on the elevation of your area (air at high altitude is less than sea level).

[add]

Have an inspector check your work and okay it. Fire insurance will not cover it if the gas line has been tampered with, even with an inspector check off.

I'm confused about #5. I don't see any gas pressure reducing valve... looks like a normal ball-type valve to me?

My water heated looks like it has black pipe coming from the ceiling, then a shutoff valve, then it goes to a ~3ft run of copper.

I was going to install a T directly after the shutoff for the hot water heater. So it would be black line > valve > T fitting going to water heater and grill.

Pressure regulator 1

Pressure regulator 2

Pressure regulator 3

Both grill and water heater are not going to get the 2 psi of pressure at working operation if there is a draw at both device at the same time.

Carbon monoxide in your basement is deadly.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: zixxer


I'm confused about #5. I don't see any gas pressure reducing valve... looks like a normal ball-type valve to me?

My water heated looks like it has black pipe coming from the ceiling, then a shutoff valve, then it goes to a ~3ft run of copper.

I was going to install a T directly after the shutoff for the hot water heater. So it would be black line > valve > T fitting going to water heater and grill.

As far as I know, in addition to a main shutoff, each individual gas appliance must also have its own shutoff valve, and it must be located within reach of that appliance, not far away in the opposite corner of your basement. Specifics, of course, vary by locality.

I don't even know about the various operating pressures of different appliances, but that's obviously an issue, too. I'm pretty sure about the number and location of shutoff valves though--it's partly just common sense, but it's been confirmed by a few contractrs and housing inspectors I've talked to.

I'd suggest reading up on your local codes and requirements before buying any parts or starting any work.

Or just call a pro who will have the new gas line ready in two hours. (Minus digging--that's one thing you can probably do and save a few bucks that way, but find out the _exact_ requirements for your trench before you dig. Make sure your trench conforms, or you'll be paying for gas installer's wasted trip when he refuses to do something below minimum requirements.)

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I see a problem requiring a permit for too may things. As it is here, it's usually only contractors who have to get permits for putting a roof on a house, or adding structures. I don't think siding or windows require one by anybody.

The homeowner can do almost anything without a permit, except for additions. I've heard NYC requires you to get a licensed plumber and permit to put a stinkin' hot water tank in. FVCK THAT!

Where I live, you can face criminal charges if a permit is not issued for major work and they find out about it.

They can force you to tear down what was built and fix it at your expense.

A lot of shady renovators don't bother getting permits, and the results can be deadly.

Permits are there for your protection.

Things are very rigid here with regulations.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: Spydermag68
Have a professional make the connection.

 

[markgm]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: Spydermag68
Have a professional make the connection.

Has anyone paid to have this done? I'm curious of the cost. I just moved into a new place that uses the flexible gas pipe and was interested in having it run out to my deck for the grill. If it is going to cost more than a couple tanks of propane then it really isn't worth it.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: markgm

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: Spydermag68
Have a professional make the connection.

Has anyone paid to have this done? I'm curious of the cost. I just moved into a new place that uses the flexible gas pipe and was interested in having it run out to my deck for the grill. If it is going to cost more than a couple tanks of propane then it really isn't worth it.

Not having to run out and buy propane makes it worth it.

I have about 8 feet of flexible line with mine so I can move the bbq anywhere I need to.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Where I live, you can face criminal charges if a permit is not issued for major work and they find out about it.

They can pry my hammer from my cold, dead fingers!


They can force you to tear down what was built and fix it at your expense.

I'll tear down my Levis, and they can kiss my ass!


A lot of shady renovators don't bother getting permits, and the results can be deadly.

If we're talking about siding, windows, and roofs, I just don't see it. Maybe so with electrical and gas, but where do you draw the line? Seems it can get pretty ridiculous if taken to extremes.


Permits are there for your protection.

Would you like to have to take out a permit to put brake pads on your car? That can be a life or death thing too, right?


Things are very rigid here with regulations.

Rigid with taxes too, eh? Neither would I want to deal with beyond our current level.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: JinLien

Originally posted by: zixxer

Originally posted by: JinLien
Go ahead and do it yourself if you are confident of the steps below.

1. Get a homeowner permit.
2. Get some threaded IP (Iron Pipe) ½ or ¾ inch (match existing line) may need to get it threaded (free at Home Depot). Purchase black malleable IP fitting, because it is illegal to use cast iron (crack easily).
3. Iron pipe thread dope for gas or yellow coded teflon tape are use at the connections.
4. There are flexible insulated pipe that you can get and uses brass compression fittings, but I?m not sure with the underground usage, because I have only seen it uses in above ground application.
5. Make sure the line that your patch in is (5 psi) before the gas pressure reducing valve of the water heater (need constant 2 psi to get the correct setting for burn rate, most is 3600 BTU for residential. The setting has to be within 10% of the max BTU, otherwise you will have un burn gas, or worse over Oxygen and get Carbon Monoxide). Or move the pressure reducing valve closer to the water heater and make sure that it is before the shutoff valve.
6. You will require to have another pressure reducing valve for the grill before the ball shut off valve (every device require its own pressure reducing valve to take the pressure from 5 psi down to working pressure of 2 psi).
7. Shut off valves handle at shutoff point shall be in the position where it can?t be accidentally turn on due to gravity or bumping.
8. Normally ¼ inch or smaller soft copper pipe is use for the line from IP to grill and it can be compression fitting, flare, or double flare (depending on the fitting that you purchase and the grill). And, cast brass fitting shall be use instead of machined brass fittings (crack easily).
9. Test the new line with 20 psi of pressure from existing IP to grill for at least 20 minutes and use soap/water test at every fitting to make sure that you don?t have any leaks.
10. You will require to clock the meter and set your pressure air/gas mixture at the grill to within 10% of max BTU rating for your grill and it also depends on the elevation of your area (air at high altitude is less than sea level).

[add]

Have an inspector check your work and okay it. Fire insurance will not cover it if the gas line has been tampered with, even with an inspector check off.

I'm confused about #5. I don't see any gas pressure reducing valve... looks like a normal ball-type valve to me?

My water heated looks like it has black pipe coming from the ceiling, then a shutoff valve, then it goes to a ~3ft run of copper.

I was going to install a T directly after the shutoff for the hot water heater. So it would be black line > valve > T fitting going to water heater and grill.

Pressure regulator 1

Pressure regulator 2

Pressure regulator 3

Both grill and water heater are not going to get the 2 psi of pressure at working operation if there is a draw at both device at the same time.

Carbon monoxide in your basement is deadly.

I think the grill has it's own pressure regulator at the grill.

 

[Vic]

Permits are usually required with utility-related work because fools blow themselves up or (even worse) blow up their families or do such shoddy work that it blows up the people who buy the house a few years down the road. If not for fools, we wouldn't have this permit problem.

Regardless, I wouldn't advise running natural gas to your grill anyway. Sure, it's bling, but propane puts out more BTU's for better grilling with no more hassle than just running to grocery store every couple months to swap bottles.

 

[J0hnny]

Simple, use threaded fittings with pipe dope and soap test for leaks.

If buried underground, use plastic. When it come above ground, use a transition fitting with an anode riser. You can join plastic with Met-fit fittings.

 

[FoBoT]

don't blow yourself up!

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: OdiN
Well you would have the gas turned off and then evacuate the lines you're going to be working on. Soldering on pipe does usually require a torch.

I would let a professional do it though...messing with gas lines is not a good idea unless you know what you are doing.

:thumbsup: Not something you want to screw with.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: J0hnny
Simple, use threaded fittings with pipe dope and soap test for leaks.

If buried underground, use plastic. When it come above ground, use a transition fitting with an anode riser. You can join plastic with Met-fit fittings.

I agree. I went to home depot and was looking at the pipe and connections etc..

HTF can you even blow yourself up doing this? the pipes are ridiculously simple to connect, iron pipe with pipe dope/glue/yellow tape. The only thing I see happening is the valve to the house being broken - fine. I'm also shutting it off with a valve for the water heater. So, to blow myself up the main valve will have to be defective AND the water heater valve.

 

[JinLien]

Originally posted by: zixxer

Originally posted by: J0hnny
Simple, use threaded fittings with pipe dope and soap test for leaks.

If buried underground, use plastic. When it come above ground, use a transition fitting with an anode riser. You can join plastic with Met-fit fittings.

I agree. I went to home depot and was looking at the pipe and connections etc..

HTF can you even blow yourself up doing this? the pipes are ridiculously simple to connect, iron pipe with pipe dope/glue/yellow tape. The only thing I see happening is the valve to the house being broken - fine. I'm also shutting it off with a valve for the water heater. So, to blow myself up the main valve will have to be defective AND the water heater valve.

Don't purchase any thing just yet. Get a permit is the first thing you should do. Secondly you should get a book for gas code for your area, or get the information from your local permit office. Once the previous 2 critical things done you can proceed on to your project.

Follow instructions and suggestions is a good way to protect yourself.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: zixxer

HTF can you even blow yourself up doing this?

:shocked:

 

[MikeMike]

wtf is with the references to "black" cast iron piping?? are you guys not just referring to Galvanized pipe??? im really confused on that.

also, flex tubing should be really really easy to run its yellow and flexible.


shouldnt be to hard, but going through a cement block wall will be fun.

Ornery.

weve added an extra 25% of square footage to our house up there in Ohio without any permit, hehe. and please explain to me "black" cast iron pipe...

 

[Ornery]

1. Black pipe is "black pipe", not galvanized, which is for water.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Ornery
By cast iron, do you mean black pipe? That would be stronger than copper, but what about rust? I'm pretty sure our building code allows copper underground, because that's what everybody uses. The supply from the street used to come in via black pipe, but I believe they're going with a plastic type pipe now.

I ran black pipe initially from the main line, but once underground I used copper. Then just used a quick release connection from the flex line of my grill to the copper. I have a shutoff valve both at the connection to the main line and at the qucik release connection.