Rumour: Bulldozer 50% Faster than Core i7 and Phenom II.

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JFAMD

Senior member
May 16, 2009
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You know, you could make great career in politics as PR.
You never give any information (this is understandable) and you go quite a long way to make a pudding out of leaks (to put doubts even in doubts). :D

I could never be a politician, I may not say everything that people want and I can only say things that are backed up in fact.

It is taken from AMDs CeBIT page

love that "US-american" phrase.

Also, doesn't the headline of the xbit article contradict JFAMDs earlier statement that AMD wasn't going to show anything at CeBIT?

Can you give me a link to that, is it on AMD.com?

Not speedbins, but "50% faster" is definitely information on performance, right?

Unless of course the CeBit page was just written by a guy who read the topic headline here and took it as fact...

I would guess that whoever wrote the page has some details mixed up. Those things happen.
 

GFORCE100

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,102
0
76
When you can't win using traditional practises such as having products that are superior to your competitor(s) you resort to good old propaganda. Not only will it stop some consumers to think about what to upgrade to (thus potentially delaying buying something from the Intel camp) but it's also an opportunity to theoretically bounce up the share price and earn some easy cash on the stock market. Unfortunately for AMD they've done this before and investors aren't stupid so doing #2 isn't as easy anymore.

In my humble opinion (and I can't get more humble than this) is that AMD should do less of the talking (perhaps not even talk at all) but concentrate on its products because that's where the bread and butter is. Propaganda can peak sky high but rest assured if the product is below par people will quickly forget what was well spoken prior to the launch and just immediately go to their competitor. What's more, it will leave a sour taste in their mouths from eating up whatever propaganda AMD threw at them. Think about it, AMD does the propaganda speech at consumers, reality kicks in and they falter on the promises. Any consumer who stops and thinks about it will get the feeling that AMD must have hoped they were stupid to trick them into believing something is better than it really is. Any company who can afford to kick fun on their consumers is on a path and one path only, downhill.

I honestly think there aren't enough passionate people working at AMD for whatever reason and there's friction in the board room for years now. It's all about what bonuses they get rather than first results then bonuses.

I would not want to hold AMD stock for the above very reasons.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
5,152
5,540
136
When you can't win using traditional practises such as having products that are superior to your competitor(s) you resort to good old propaganda. Not only will it stop some consumers to think about what to upgrade to (thus potentially delaying buying something from the Intel camp) but it's also an opportunity to theoretically bounce up the share price and earn some easy cash on the stock market. Unfortunately for AMD they've done this before and investors aren't stupid so doing #2 isn't as easy anymore.

In my humble opinion (and I can't get more humble than this) is that AMD should do less of the talking (perhaps not even talk at all) but concentrate on its products because that's where the bread and butter is. Propaganda can peak sky high but rest assured if the product is below par people will quickly forget what was well spoken prior to the launch and just immediately go to their competitor. What's more, it will leave a sour taste in their mouths from eating up whatever propaganda AMD threw at them. Think about it, AMD does the propaganda speech at consumers, reality kicks in and they falter on the promises. Any consumer who stops and thinks about it will get the feeling that AMD must have hoped they were stupid to trick them into believing something is better than it really is. Any company who can afford to kick fun on their consumers is on a path and one path only, downhill.

I honestly think there aren't enough passionate people working at AMD for whatever reason and there's friction in the board room for years now. It's all about what bonuses they get rather than first results then bonuses.

I would not want to hold AMD stock for the above very reasons.
Now that's amusing
 

ShadowVVL

Senior member
May 1, 2010
758
0
71
I think if we give everyone at amd a hug every now and then we might see 20% more performance.

an extra 10% if we let them have afternoon naps.

combine we could see a total of 30% more performance in bulldozer chips.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
63
91
When you can't win using traditional practises such as having products that are superior to your competitor(s) you resort to good old propaganda. Not only will it stop some consumers to think about what to upgrade to (thus potentially delaying buying something from the Intel camp) but it's also an opportunity to theoretically bounce up the share price and earn some easy cash on the stock market. Unfortunately for AMD they've done this before and investors aren't stupid so doing #2 isn't as easy anymore.

In my humble opinion (and I can't get more humble than this) is that AMD should do less of the talking (perhaps not even talk at all) but concentrate on its products because that's where the bread and butter is. Propaganda can peak sky high but rest assured if the product is below par people will quickly forget what was well spoken prior to the launch and just immediately go to their competitor. What's more, it will leave a sour taste in their mouths from eating up whatever propaganda AMD threw at them. Think about it, AMD does the propaganda speech at consumers, reality kicks in and they falter on the promises. Any consumer who stops and thinks about it will get the feeling that AMD must have hoped they were stupid to trick them into believing something is better than it really is. Any company who can afford to kick fun on their consumers is on a path and one path only, downhill.

I honestly think there aren't enough passionate people working at AMD for whatever reason and there's friction in the board room for years now. It's all about what bonuses they get rather than first results then bonuses.

I would not want to hold AMD stock for the above very reasons.

What on earth are you going on about?

Do you have any links to this "propaganda speech"?

I can make impassioned specious generic arguments too, doesn't mean there is any legitimate basis to them.
 

hamunaptra

Senior member
May 24, 2005
929
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Yeah, I personally think everyone should just drop their expectations of BD, including myself. I have high hopes for it, but I would hate to be dissapointed by AMD once again (k10). I am a huge fan of AMD and hope they get something right, sometime soon.

But, if we just lowered our expectations a lot regarding BD....we may be pleasantly surprised when it finally comes out =)
 

GFORCE100

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,102
0
76
What on earth are you going on about?

Do you have any links to this "propaganda speech"?

I can make impassioned specious generic arguments too, doesn't mean there is any legitimate basis to them.

Anyone whose been watching the market knows what I mean. Since you wrote "What on earth are you going on about?" it's just obvious you want to poke a spanner in the works without offering any of your own insight into the mix. I would appreciate more substance than just throwing the ball back in my courtyard and then sitting on a fence taking close eye how I "handle it".

AMD has been faltering much because of its own doing, that's all I'm going on about if you want to call it that. I'm no newbie here on Anandtech forums and have written about AMD before. Perhaps you're too quick to judge what I wrote and this made you consider me yet another one of those Intel fanboys. While I do have my preferences I'm far from an Intel fanboy. Look at it this way, perhaps this way you'll consider my viewpoint: if AMD gets it's act together and finally starts competing without making fun of Intel and hyping it's products only to then disappoint the market then that's only a good thing. Why? This will force Intel to perform better meaning enhanced products and possibly lower prices to consumers. How is this a bad thing? It's a have your cake and eat your cake situation.

I don't keep a list of links to "AMD propaganda", it's not my job or keen interest. Most people don't monitor any company on a day by day basis unless they're financially bound through investments.

If you see my point then thanks for coming round. If not please don't go treating such opinions as instant attacks on AMD, which I guess you're a fan of. Thanks in advance.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
63
91
Anyone whose been watching the market knows what I mean. Since you wrote "What on earth are you going on about?" it's just obvious you want to poke a spanner in the works without offering any of your own insight into the mix. I would appreciate more substance than just throwing the ball back in my courtyard and then sitting on a fence taking close eye how I "handle it".

AMD has been faltering much because of its own doing, that's all I'm going on about if you want to call it that. I'm no newbie here on Anandtech forums and have written about AMD before. Perhaps you're too quick to judge what I wrote and this made you consider me yet another one of those Intel fanboys. While I do have my preferences I'm far from an Intel fanboy. Look at it this way, perhaps this way you'll consider my viewpoint: if AMD gets it's act together and finally starts competing without making fun of Intel and hyping it's products only to then disappoint the market then that's only a good thing. Why? This will force Intel to perform better meaning enhanced products and possibly lower prices to consumers. How is this a bad thing? It's a have your cake and eat your cake situation.

I don't keep a list of links to "AMD propaganda", it's not my job or keen interest. Most people don't monitor any company on a day by day basis unless they're financially bound through investments.

If you see my point then thanks for coming round. If not please don't go treating such opinions as instant attacks on AMD, which I guess you're a fan of. Thanks in advance.

So...nothing to support your assertions then? I still don't know what you are going on about.

I'm beginning to get the impression you are just ranting for the sake of ranting here.

I asked you to back up your statements and your rebuttal is to imply that I must be an AMD fan to have asked this much of you.

You are the one claiming there is propaganda afoot, the burden of proof of your claim falls to you.

Otherwise you are just making baseless claims and you should not fault anyone for concluding, and stating, as much.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,284
138
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Anyone whose been watching the market knows what I mean. Since you wrote "What on earth are you going on about?" it's just obvious you want to poke a spanner in the works without offering any of your own insight into the mix. I would appreciate more substance than just throwing the ball back in my courtyard and then sitting on a fence taking close eye how I "handle it".
I HAVE been watching the market, and your whole speech seems a bit misinformed. Marketing is entirely about trying to generate a desire in customers to purchase a good or service. You are essentially saying "AMD should fire their marketing staff and use the extra resources on developing a better product". Which is crazy in many ways.

AMD has been faltering much because of its own doing, that's all I'm going on about if you want to call it that.
AMD is being beaten by a company that has a majority of the market. Something AMD has never had. The fact that Intel usually operates in the black and, even at the best times, AMD usually operates at or near the red speaks a load about the difference between the two companies.

I'm no newbie here on Anandtech forums and have written about AMD before.
How long you have been on a web board speaks nothing about the knowledge you have. There are plenty of idiot lifers on this forum. In fact, some of the best insights I have seen have come from some of the newest members.

Perhaps you're too quick to judge what I wrote and this made you consider me yet another one of those Intel fanboys. While I do have my preferences I'm far from an Intel fanboy.
Hardly, you are point out a non-issue and trying to say "Look, this is why AMD is failing!". This is why he wrote what he wrote.

Look at it this way, perhaps this way you'll consider my viewpoint: if AMD gets it's act together and finally starts competing without making fun of Intel and hyping it's products only to then disappoint the market then that's only a good thing.
You say this like AMD is just running around like chickens with their heads cut off. They are not. They are working as hard as they can to produce the best product they can with the resources they have available. The fact is, they don't have THAT much to work with (compared to Intel). The fact that they have done as well as they have in the past is nothing short of impressive.

Firing their marketing staff doesn't mean that they will magically have enough new engineers to compete with intel. It just doesn't work that way. And whats worse, it would significantly decrease their revenue, meaning they would have even less resources to work with in the long run.

Marketing works.

Why? This will force Intel to perform better meaning enhanced products and possibly lower prices to consumers. How is this a bad thing? It's a have your cake and eat your cake situation.
This won't force intel to do anything. Their ability to deliver a stellar product is (almost) unaffected by how much money they are spending on marketing.

Almost nobody would argue that a strong AMD is a good thing. However, them cutting out their marketing budget is not the way to become strong.

I don't keep a list of links to "AMD propaganda", it's not my job or keen interest. Most people don't monitor any company on a day by day basis unless they're financially bound through investments.

If you see my point then thanks for coming round. If not please don't go treating such opinions as instant attacks on AMD, which I guess you're a fan of. Thanks in advance.

Idontcare is hardly an AMD fanboy. In fact, I've seen many people claim that he is an Intel fanboy. (I've personally found him to be impartial.)

He was treating your statements as nonsense, because they are. What you are suggesting would pretty much result in the death of AMD, or any company for that matter. There is a reason every company under the sun touts their product as being the best, because that is how you sell stuff. If you never try and advertise your product, you will never sell it.
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
2
0
He was treating your statements as nonsense, because they are. What you are suggesting would pretty much result in the death of AMD, or any company for that matter. There is a reason every company under the sun touts their product as being the best, because that is how you sell stuff. If you never try and advertise your product, you will never sell it.
^ this

@Gforce guy, man what you ranted sounded loopy.... also I think you should take a look in the mirror before calling others biased (also IDC is a mod, calling him out isnt smart).
 

GFORCE100

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,102
0
76
Okay. So you're obviously not going to chill unless given substantial written aka official links substantiating what I said. Had I known this before I probably wouldn't have even replied to this thread.

It's not a debate I really have any interest winning because there's no point and quite frankly I'm not 20-something youth and all this entails. Having said that these things spring to mind, which may or may not cause you to see things more mildly.

So to scratch my head we have:

- AMD making fun of Intel's Pentium D back in 2005, this involved their marketing department publicly making a stance by releasing a 10 point PDF file claiming reasons why Intel didn't take AMD up on their offer to do a Pentium D Vs Athlon X2 showdown.
- Similarly just recently in January 2010, AMD also poked fun at Intel but this time without a PDF (unless I missed it). This also came directly from AMD's marketing department and concerned Intel's eSata bug found in its latest 6 series chipsets.
- 2007, AMD hugely overhyped it's Phenom launch claiming how superior it is and how Intel should be shaking its pants in shame of what's to come. Unfortunately for us all they were entirely excessive in their claims
- AMD circa 2007 choosing to buy ATI when they weren't making much cash or sitting on cash stockpiles plus a shaky future outlook in terms of future revenue. This continues to hit them till today. This was spoken as a fantastic move for AMD. While I agree longterm yes back then (and even today) they have basically shot themselves in the knee, given themselves a dead leg if you like which is costing them problems even today
- AMD circa 2008/2009 and choosing to split and forming Global Foundries when they were also not sitting on stockpiles and instead betting too much on a foreign investor to pull the risk. Intel is about to rollout 22nm by Q4 this year and they are yet to rollout 32nm.
- AMD (ongoing) giving themselves big bonuses when company performance is far from reflecting that cash in hand and company financial standing being thin at best. They seem to confuse their business with being an investment bank, except the latter can generate cash very quickly down to the liquidity of global markets 24/7.
- AMD (starting 2008). While no one who knows will publicly speak for or against this it's very likely and increasingly visible that the votes in the board room are clearly divided. Rapid changes in CEO's with no new CEO announced since the resignation of Dirk Meyer's is a further sign of weakness

Each of the above could be extrapolated however I get the feeling I've already done so before on this forum, for instance I remember writing a lot about Hector Ruiz back in 2007...and early 2010.

Now I could likely find links to each if I searched long and hard enough but why? Am I speaking at some conference or taking my opinion directly to AMD as an analyst they've hired? No, I consider a forum an unofficial place to exchange our views in a constructive yet mature manner.

Has Intel made mistakes too? Sure, but this thread is on AMD and if someone makes an interesting thread on Intel here on the forums then I may just respond with my take on Intel's deficiencies. I don't hold stock of either so I can't be accused of being biased. I just think AMD isn't performing as well as it should in a market that demands agile yet stable management and execution.

IMHO there will come a time when someone buys AMD.

On a separate note people used to scorn at Cyrix back in the 90's, chiefly due to FPU performance and heat issues on the 6x86 (before die shrink) series. I wasn't a fan but I liked them and I'm sad to see them out of business.

Peace.
 

drizek

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2005
1,410
0
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Phenom wasn't overhyped by AMD. I think Phenom underdelivered for AMD. They stopped hyping it once they found out they couldn't get it running at high clocks.

As for your comment on buying ATI, not only is the graphics deivison doing extremely well under AMD right now, but we see that Brazos and Llano have the potential to be huge successes in the next year, and that's all thanks to ATI. And AMD has every right to make fun of Intel for their SATA bug. Intels chipsets are a disaster right now. AMD has a much better platform, and again, that is largely thanks to the ATI purchase.
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
2
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Similarly just recently in January 2010, AMD also poked fun at Intel but this time without a PDF (unless I missed it). This also came directly from AMD's marketing department and concerned Intel's eSata bug found in its latest 6 series chipsets.
yes it was all just amd propaganda... because Intel didnt have ANY issues with its sata ports right? its not like they used over 1billion $ to recall motherboards?

Tasteless of amd marketing team? maybe... propaganda? no, Intel did have sata issues.
It was just a fun jib, and a good way/time to remind people there are alternatives, its marketing... its not just amd who does this, more or less everyone else that has marketing teams do.

Read this thread: (AMD's quip on Valentines day)
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2143243

amdv2.jpg


Most people thought that was funny, if you check the thread.





Also alot of your other claims arnt backed up by anything.. their just your ranting things off.


MD circa 2007 choosing to buy ATI when they weren't making much cash or sitting on cash stockpiles plus a shaky future outlook in terms of future revenue. This continues to hit them till today. This was spoken as a fantastic move for AMD. While I agree longterm yes back then (and even today) they have basically shot themselves in the knee, given themselves a dead leg if you like which is costing them problems even today
How is that propaganda? maybe the guys at AMD thought buying ATI was a good investment?
Theyre makeing Fusion products now, APUs where they have huge compute power from the GPGPU from the IGP. They wanted to bring compute power to the CPU, by moveing the GPU into the CPU.

Also ATI part of AMD are most likely makeing AMD alot of money.... so in that sense it wasnt a bad investment. Its their CPU department thats kinda behinde atm.
 
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DrBoss

Senior member
Feb 23, 2011
415
1
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This thread has turned into a joke, it's akin to reading kids argue PS3 vs Xbox 360.

bottom line, competition is good.
i hope bulldozer performs as the name suggests.
 
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Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
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Also ATI part of AMD are most likely makeing AMD alot of money.... so in that sense it wasnt a bad investment. Its their CPU department thats kinda behinde atm.

ATI has contributed less than $100M to AMDs bottom line.

AMD paid $5.4B for ATI.

Yes, it was a bad investment.
 

drizek

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2005
1,410
0
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If it wasn't for ATI chipsets, I would not have built an Athlon 64 system. I would not have moved my Athlon 64 chip to another system to upgrade to a faster X2, and I would not have then purchased a Phenom II X3. So thats 3 CPUs that buying ATI got AMD.

Otherwise I probably would have built Core2Duo systems, possibly with nvidia chipsets.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,113
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From Xbitlabs "new dual-channel DDR3 memory controller". Do we know at this point what the max supported speed will be for the new controller?
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,982
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ATI has contributed less than $100M to AMDs bottom line.

AMD paid $5.4B for ATI.

Yes, it was a bad investment.

I don't think they ever expected the ATI investment to be profitable from a strictly financial (if they kept the entities separate) standpoint. ATI + AMD were (are) supposed to be worth more than the sum of their parts because of Fusion.


The real question is, for $5billion, could AMD have created Bobcat or Llano w/out ATI? (Or become a viable GPU competitor...) That I don't know...
 
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