I use only AMD, I have never had a problem. I suspect that people that have problems with AMD chips just don't have the machine set up to cool properly.
pillage2001
Lifer
- Sep 18, 2000
- 14,038
- 1
- 81
You know what dude, GET A LIFE. If you have doubts in AMD that much, go with your bro. He's the champion in the house. Follow him and be one.
Well, I'm a computer engineer, and I'm gonna go with "bullshit" for the most part. I have 3 systems currently running in my house. 1 of them(my main system) is Intel and 2 of them are AMD(an Athlon Thunderbird 1400 and an Athlon XP 1800+). All of them are running 24/7, and I'm not getting any problems with them. Of course, the computer is such a complex mixture of different hardware that its impossible to gaurantee 100% stability, so I'm not gonna claim that its gonna be "rock stable" for you, but I'm not gonna claim the same for Intel either. Basically, I tend to recommend AMD systems to my friends, or in fact to anyone(I've helped build 2 systems based on AMD CPUs for 2 my friends already) because they're just more bang for the buck.
Of course, if you want the absolute fastest for most general applications, then the Intel Northwood 2.533GHz can't be beat by the fastest current AMD CPU(Athlon XP 2100+), but it doesn't look like you're going for speed, but stability, and since you're not overclocking, you shouldn't have any problems. AMD Athlon CPUs do produce considerably more heat than Intel P4s, but even at high temperatures(my XP1800+ goes up to 60+C on a hot day), as long as you stick to the default clockspeed, stability shouldn't be an issue.
Of course, if you want the absolute fastest for most general applications, then the Intel Northwood 2.533GHz can't be beat by the fastest current AMD CPU(Athlon XP 2100+), but it doesn't look like you're going for speed, but stability, and since you're not overclocking, you shouldn't have any problems. AMD Athlon CPUs do produce considerably more heat than Intel P4s, but even at high temperatures(my XP1800+ goes up to 60+C on a hot day), as long as you stick to the default clockspeed, stability shouldn't be an issue.
The solution here seems simple: build yourself a nice stable AMD system, then tell your brother to go hang his degree in the bathroom in case he runs out of TP... 
Seriously - add me to the list of people who run AMD processors without any stability issues. 2 of 'em, 24/7 - one as a webserver that hasn't been rebooted in months save for when I installed a FanMate to silence the HSF. Not that there's anything wrong with Intel chips, either - I just don't bother overclocking anymore since you can get so much performance for so little money without it, and AMD chips offer better bang for your buck if you're not OCing.
Seriously - add me to the list of people who run AMD processors without any stability issues. 2 of 'em, 24/7 - one as a webserver that hasn't been rebooted in months save for when I installed a FanMate to silence the HSF. Not that there's anything wrong with Intel chips, either - I just don't bother overclocking anymore since you can get so much performance for so little money without it, and AMD chips offer better bang for your buck if you're not OCing.
pillage2001
Lifer
- Sep 18, 2000
- 14,038
- 1
- 81
My house has 4 people running AMD cpus and none has problem with it. To assure you more, there are 3 computer engineers in this house. Satisfied??
I am neither an electrical engineer nor a geek. I'm not even a philosopher with the Truth. I would suggest that your choice of motherboard and chipset might have more to do with your system's stability than your choice of CPU manufacturer.
I recently build an Athlon XP computer and to be HONEST it is pretty stable. However I have one problem with it. It runs too HOT in my opinion, 57-63 degrees idle and I move to a different climate and the temperature shoot up 10 degrees to 67-73 degrees idle and it is not even summer yet!!!
I am using a MSI K7N415 PRO motherboard and it wickedly sweet couple with an Athlon XP 1700+
Cooling
If I swap in a better fan, the 1700+ temperature drops to 41 degrees idle (51 degrees idle at my current location.) However, the humming might drive you nuts. If you do chose an AMD process I hope you don?t live in some hot azz area.
I am using a MSI K7N415 PRO motherboard and it wickedly sweet couple with an Athlon XP 1700+
Cooling
If I swap in a better fan, the 1700+ temperature drops to 41 degrees idle (51 degrees idle at my current location.) However, the humming might drive you nuts. If you do chose an AMD process I hope you don?t live in some hot azz area.
I'm an AMD fan for life.. not only are they incredibly stable when using the right components, they're also a ton cheaper.
You know what dude, GET A LIFE. If you have doubts in AMD that much, go with your bro. He's the champion in the house. Follow him and be one.
lol
lol
as for lasting 5 years, it realy depends on what u use your computer for...i've had this athlon for nearly 3 years, and i'll still keep it for at least another year.
the latest athlons and p4s will be plenty for at least 5 years, which is a new trend i've noticed...cpus are tending to last longer in terms of being sufficient more years down the road...probably because hardware tech. progresses so much faster than software...
the latest athlons and p4s will be plenty for at least 5 years, which is a new trend i've noticed...cpus are tending to last longer in terms of being sufficient more years down the road...probably because hardware tech. progresses so much faster than software...
If an AMD based system crashed each 5 mins when listening to mp3's, it was probably an OEM PC with all the preloaded loaded software running and all the TSR you can imagine running at the same time on Win95/98. Of course it's unstable !!!
Although it's true that CPU lifespan is getting better, 5 years is still FAR FAR too long to keep a processor... let's think about this... the hot CPU that was out 5 years ago was probably the 300 megahertz PII. If you were still using one of those today you'd have a brain hemhorage because you couldn't run ANY newer software on it.
If your a Linux fanboy who will do nothing but web surfing and some low stress coding then sure, 3-5 years out of a CPU is realistic. If you use your computer for gaming/compiling/photo/video then a faster cpu ever couple of years for $200-$300 is a no-brainer.... CPU's are getting cheaper than ever... even a full cpu/mobo/RAM upgrade every 18 months is down to under $500 especially if you don't need the top of the line.
It's only fairly recently that a 300MHz processor has become truly too low-end to run high-end games and apps. Most games will still run on a 300MHz system, though they may not run quickly or with all the features turned on. And it'll certainly still run any OS except possibly WinXP. Obsolescence is dependent entirely on what one's expectations are for a system. Most people don't really need gigahertz plus processor speeds.
I didn't read the whole thread, so if i repeat something someone else said sorry.
AMD has developed a stereotype of being "unstable". This has NOTHING to do with amd, they really need to get themselfs out of this glut.
How did they get there????
AMD cpu's are, and have been for some time, MUCH cheaper than equal Intel parts. Thus, they found themselfs in lesser quality computers. Those computers where price was the most important selling point. This is JUST the kind of computer you could avoid. Manufactures don't pay much attention to quality, thus stablity suffers. But hey, you get what you pay for in this case.
VIA has contributed to the instablity of AMD systems, but to be realisitic, they have not had that big of an effect.
A quality AMD machine be just as stable as any Inet machine out there, and save you a LOT of money along the way.
BTW. Notice how no one in this forum told you AMD is "unstable"? Well take a hint. We arn't AMD fanboys, and if you don't belive us, go ask one of the other informed forums... hardocp.com,aceshardware.com,tomshardware.com,firingsquad.com....
computers are complex machines, unfortunatly, very few are educated... thanks for not being ignorant (don't mind my spelling)
AMD has developed a stereotype of being "unstable". This has NOTHING to do with amd, they really need to get themselfs out of this glut.
How did they get there????
AMD cpu's are, and have been for some time, MUCH cheaper than equal Intel parts. Thus, they found themselfs in lesser quality computers. Those computers where price was the most important selling point. This is JUST the kind of computer you could avoid. Manufactures don't pay much attention to quality, thus stablity suffers. But hey, you get what you pay for in this case.
VIA has contributed to the instablity of AMD systems, but to be realisitic, they have not had that big of an effect.
A quality AMD machine be just as stable as any Inet machine out there, and save you a LOT of money along the way.
BTW. Notice how no one in this forum told you AMD is "unstable"? Well take a hint. We arn't AMD fanboys, and if you don't belive us, go ask one of the other informed forums... hardocp.com,aceshardware.com,tomshardware.com,firingsquad.com....
computers are complex machines, unfortunatly, very few are educated... thanks for not being ignorant (don't mind my spelling
)I can't think of a game written in the last two years that would run accepteably on a 300 mhz system unless you were running at at 640X480. Even Unreal (the original Unreal, not Unreal Tournament) was a dog on our overclocked 450 mhz Celeron's back in "the day".
Soulkeeper
Diamond Member
- Nov 23, 2001
- 6,732
- 155
- 106
I feel i should mention some precautions that must be taken when building an athlon system in order to avoid instability
--make sure you have a sufficient power supply unti (psu) (name brand is recommended) of atleast 350 depending on what kind devices are in your system
--AMD cpu's do run hot so make sure you have a good heat sink and fan (hsf) and it is applied properly
--Make sure your case has good cooling
--Don't get the cheepest motherboard there is unless your sure it is gonna run good
hope this helps
--Soul_keeper
--make sure you have a sufficient power supply unti (psu) (name brand is recommended) of atleast 350 depending on what kind devices are in your system
--AMD cpu's do run hot so make sure you have a good heat sink and fan (hsf) and it is applied properly
--Make sure your case has good cooling
--Don't get the cheepest motherboard there is unless your sure it is gonna run good
hope this helps
--Soul_keeper
Belegost
Golden Member
- Feb 20, 2001
- 1,807
- 19
- 81
Well, I have 3 running computers in the house, and one more in parts waiting for me to get around to buy a new PS. I've got an AMD Duron 950, a PIII 733, and a K6-2 333 running, with a Celeron 466 in parts. The Duron is running on an ECS K7S5A with WinXP and currently has been running for about 3 weeks since I upgraded to a new overclocking BIOS, before that I doubt I had rebooted it in over a month. The PIII is currently the most problematic system I have, but I think it's due to the on-board S3 video, and my younger siblings messing around. I run the K6-2 next to my desk, I use it for an extra browser window, email and SETI, I have it on an Asus P5A and Win98SE, current uptime is 3 months 12 days 5 hours. While I can't claim to have any AMD chips running after 5 years (I killed my 233 last year in an extreme cooling test gone wrong) I also don't have any intel chips running. I do have both of them in the form of 486/Pentium chips sitting on the shelf, I would suppose they still work.
I make no guarantees you'll have such stability, but for anyone to make unfounded claims of terrible instability is irresponsible, EE degree notwithstanding your brother has been misinformed.
I recommend you determine a budget and list the applications you need your computer to perform, and then determine which CPU type performs best for those applications within your budget. But, don't let unfounded rumours or hype drive you to purchase over-priced, or unecessar parts
As for those claiming that a 5 year old system is useless: Please understand that a significant portion of the people that own computers have no need for the latest software. I have friends and relatives running ancient machines, 486s, PIIs, etc. They are perfectly happy too, the computer runs AOL, (or their choice of isp) and they get their email and can browse for cookie recipes. Realistically, those of us who are enthusiasts about computers are in the minority, we might help drive the sales of the latest hardware, but the consumer market is governed by Joe Sixpack who just wants to be able to email grandma and buy cheap airline tickets.
[edit] Gunf1ghter, you must have had some awful video card on that, I ran Unreal1 and for a short time UT on my k6233 with 3dfx Banshee and could get ~30fps at 800x600 high detail in U1 and ~20fps at the same resolution, medium detail, in UT. [/edit]
I make no guarantees you'll have such stability, but for anyone to make unfounded claims of terrible instability is irresponsible, EE degree notwithstanding your brother has been misinformed.
I recommend you determine a budget and list the applications you need your computer to perform, and then determine which CPU type performs best for those applications within your budget. But, don't let unfounded rumours or hype drive you to purchase over-priced, or unecessar parts
As for those claiming that a 5 year old system is useless: Please understand that a significant portion of the people that own computers have no need for the latest software. I have friends and relatives running ancient machines, 486s, PIIs, etc. They are perfectly happy too, the computer runs AOL, (or their choice of isp) and they get their email and can browse for cookie recipes. Realistically, those of us who are enthusiasts about computers are in the minority, we might help drive the sales of the latest hardware, but the consumer market is governed by Joe Sixpack who just wants to be able to email grandma and buy cheap airline tickets.
[edit] Gunf1ghter, you must have had some awful video card on that, I ran Unreal1 and for a short time UT on my k6233 with 3dfx Banshee and could get ~30fps at 800x600 high detail in U1 and ~20fps at the same resolution, medium detail, in UT. [/edit]
Re gaming on old systems, I've got a PII-350 with 256MB of RAM (recently upgraded from 160MB) and a Radeon 32MB DDR graphics card. I can run the following games at 800x600 or higher with acceptable (to me) frame rates:
Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis (Demo)
Ghost Recon (Demo)
Sum of All Fears (Demo)
MechWarrior 4
Max Payne (Demo, may have been at 640x480, can't remember, though I admit, it did stress the system a bit)
Unreal Tournament (The original version, demo)
Q3:Arena (Demo, got 40-50FPS at max. resolution and max. graphics)
Yes, the very latest games and certainly those that are about to come out (really looking forward to Raven Shield this fall) will probably be too much for this system, which is a big factor in me upgrading to a XP 1800+ soon, but I would say that its reasonable to say that most people could get 3-5 years out of their CPU, especially if they aren't hardcore gamers.
Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis (Demo)
Ghost Recon (Demo)
Sum of All Fears (Demo)
MechWarrior 4
Max Payne (Demo, may have been at 640x480, can't remember, though I admit, it did stress the system a bit)
Unreal Tournament (The original version, demo)
Q3:Arena (Demo, got 40-50FPS at max. resolution and max. graphics)
Yes, the very latest games and certainly those that are about to come out (really looking forward to Raven Shield this fall) will probably be too much for this system, which is a big factor in me upgrading to a XP 1800+ soon, but I would say that its reasonable to say that most people could get 3-5 years out of their CPU, especially if they aren't hardcore gamers.
Chaotic42
Lifer
- Jun 15, 2001
- 34,639
- 1,809
- 126
Let me add in that the quality of the power supply is very important. I bought an Inwin Q500 case back in 1997 (maybe early 98) and it came with a junky supply. It was on sale, and I was 15 and naive. I bought it with an AMD K6-200 and Abit AX5.
Anyway, it would crash a bit, it was ok, but not the greatest. I thought maybe it was Windows 95.
I upgraded to an Intel Celeron 366A with an Abit BX6r2. Now keep in mind that those are both quality parts. Some people put down Intel, but they make stable stuff. Anyway, it still crashed, even with Win98. It crashed with the same frequency, even though the parts were different.
I bought a 350W Power Supply from PC Power and Cooling. It was like $110. My computer has not crashed in 2 1/2 years when not overclocked. Since I put it in, everything has run fine.
I thought it was worth pointing out. You get what you pay for. I'd rather have 256MB of Crucial ram or a 20x Plextor burner than 512MB of generic memory or a 40x Actima burner.
Anyway, it would crash a bit, it was ok, but not the greatest. I thought maybe it was Windows 95.
I upgraded to an Intel Celeron 366A with an Abit BX6r2. Now keep in mind that those are both quality parts. Some people put down Intel, but they make stable stuff. Anyway, it still crashed, even with Win98. It crashed with the same frequency, even though the parts were different.
I bought a 350W Power Supply from PC Power and Cooling. It was like $110. My computer has not crashed in 2 1/2 years when not overclocked. Since I put it in, everything has run fine.
I thought it was worth pointing out. You get what you pay for. I'd rather have 256MB of Crucial ram or a 20x Plextor burner than 512MB of generic memory or a 40x Actima burner.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,579
- 10,215
- 126
Your "bro", is way out of his league. (An EE is really in no way related to a microprocessor design engineer, although they also have some EE skills, certainly.)
AMD CPUs are fine. If they weren't, they wouldn't be selling so well, and there would be far more reports of problems.
Texun
Platinum Member
- Oct 21, 2001
- 2,058
- 1
- 81
aalizard
My bro is an electrical engineer and he also tells me that AMD CPU's have stability prob's! A freakin electrical engineer telling me this! Who should I just trust? If these CPU's are rock solid stable then I would jump on one right now, but because of what I'm hearing I'm backing away.... So plz tell me if these "rumors" are true...
I work with an electrical engineer... he recently built an iWill KK266+ \ AMD T-Bird and loves it. I also have an XP1700 and a P4. The XP is my primary PC. No stability problems of any kind at all.... period. Use a quality MB and name brand memory like Crucial, Mushkin, etc., in whatever you build and you should be okay.
My bro is an electrical engineer and he also tells me that AMD CPU's have stability prob's! A freakin electrical engineer telling me this! Who should I just trust? If these CPU's are rock solid stable then I would jump on one right now, but because of what I'm hearing I'm backing away.... So plz tell me if these "rumors" are true...
I work with an electrical engineer... he recently built an iWill KK266+ \ AMD T-Bird and loves it. I also have an XP1700 and a P4. The XP is my primary PC. No stability problems of any kind at all.... period. Use a quality MB and name brand memory like Crucial, Mushkin, etc., in whatever you build and you should be okay.
No stability issues with the PC in my sig. I do crash it from time to time, but it's always stuff I do that causes it (new software, driver, whatever). Initial setup was a bit of a pain (had some compatibility issues with my original sound card and some bad ram), but it's been running solid for about a year now. I can honestly say it's never crashed on me without it being my fault.
Well, if you want another EE's opinion (not that it has anything to do with it), AMD chips are fine.
Mine is the most stable machine I've ever owned, going weeks between reboots, and I tax my system hard. When I do reboot, it's almost always because of a new software install that needs to reboot to finish installing.
Looking at my uptime monitor, my last crash was on April 9. So, I've gone nearly 7 weeks without a crash, while running SETI 24/7, gaming, web browsing, photo editing, DVD ripping and encoding, and more. And my AMD CPU is overclocked.
If you're not going to overclock, go AMD...they run much better for the price.
Jman
Mine is the most stable machine I've ever owned, going weeks between reboots, and I tax my system hard. When I do reboot, it's almost always because of a new software install that needs to reboot to finish installing.
Looking at my uptime monitor, my last crash was on April 9. So, I've gone nearly 7 weeks without a crash, while running SETI 24/7, gaming, web browsing, photo editing, DVD ripping and encoding, and more. And my AMD CPU is overclocked.
If you're not going to overclock, go AMD...they run much better for the price.
Jman
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