[Rumor, Tweaktown] AMD to launch next-gen Navi graphics cards at E3

[ubern00b]

For **** sake. Read the post to which I was replying in the first place. Then disagree with me.

This is the post that I was replying to:

I dont need to, do you know why? you are confusing TDP with power consumption and thinking they should both be the same from your own words:

And that AMD CPUs are using more power than their TDP ratings would suggest.

This is how all electronics work.

 

[Glo.]

I dont need to, do you know why? you are confusing TDP with power consumption and thinking they should both be the same from your own words:



This is how all electronics work.

Its not me who is confusing this, but the guy who I was replying to. I wanted to correct this. What is wrong with you?

Edit: Ah, right. I spotted your signature, and CPU config...

Right, should've thought about it... :facepalm:

 

[ubern00b]

Its not me who is confusing this, but the guy who I was replying to. I wanted to correct this. What is wrong with you?

Here's a quote of yours before this, what am I missing, hands up if I have got it wrong here:

Its safe to assume that Ryzen 5 2600 is in reality not 65W TDP CPU, but more like 85-90W CPU.

it's not safe to assume that at all, you are taking TDP and mixing it with power draw?

 

[maddie]

Their power draw has nothing to do with their TDP, the same is true for Intel, so it makes no difference. if it was 65w TDP CPU with 65W power consumption then it's just a heater as it's converting all electrical input into heat output, as it stands, you can take 150w of energy and only need 65w of thermal dissipation to remove the heat that's been converted, seems some people can't make the differentation

Pretty much all the power used by a CPU ends up as heat.

Where do you suggest any of the energy ends up beside heat?

 

[Glo.]

Here's a quote of yours before this, what am I missing, hands up if I have got it wrong here:



it's not safe to assume that at all, you are taking TDP and mixing it with power draw?

I want to use harsh words, for you but, again:

Read this post to which I was replying, without your confirmation Biases, and then talk to me, about who is not gtetting what TDP is:

"I'd wait for more reliable reviewers, especially any claim of a review this early is probably garbage. We know that review chips usually arrive about 7-10 days before official release/reveal day, sometimes even just 3-4 days before reveal. So having a review chip almost 3 weeks before release date to me seems like its 100% fake clickbait news.

There is no way AMD are able to get 16 cores 32 threads at 4.7GHz at 105W if 7nm wasn't MUCH better than their 16nm process. Its just ridiculous that anyone would suggest that 7nm is barely better than 16nm for AMD, that is absurd. Just the size difference, density, performance, etc.... that AMD can get out of 7nm vs 16/12nm is huge.

Again its the Intel sponsored fake news, because they have no competition to AMD, so lets activate all our old pals, all our paid promoters and have them spread fake news.

I'd wait for real reviews like Anandtech, Guru3d, computerhardware.de, few others that are still reliable."

Then go back to this post:

According to ElChapuzasInformatico's review of Ryzen 5 3600, it appears that 7 nm process is not as good as everybody has hoped for. 3600 is consuming just 10W's less than 2600.

Who knows, maybe my words about N7 process node are correct, don't ya think?

And see how big mistake you have made. It was Guru who was talking about TDP. I was talking from the ground up about Power Draw, and tried to prove to Guru that power draw is not equal to TDP.

 

[ubern00b]

Let me break it down in simple terms. Ryzen 2600 needs a cooler that can dissipate 65w of thermal (heat) power away from the processor. In reality the processor can actually use more than 65w of energy probably closer to 90w of energy, though it only needs a cooler that can dissipate 65w of thermal as not all of what goes into the processor is turned into heat.

 

[Glo.]

Let me break it down in simple terms. Ryzen 2600 needs a cooler that can dissipate 65w of thermal (heat) power away from the processor. In reality the processor can actually use more than 65w of energy probably closer to 90w of energy, though it only needs a cooler that can dissipate 65w of thermal as not all of what goes into the processor is turned into heat.

Then why do you not agree with me, but in the ******g end, you agree with me?

What the **** is wrong with you?

 

[ubern00b]

You expect the TDP to reflect power consumption, that is where you are categorically wrong...

 

[ubern00b]

Pretty much all the power used by a CPU ends up as heat.

Where do you suggest any of the energy ends up beside heat?

And you're so wrong I'm not even going to entertain it...

 

[ubern00b]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power

Some sources state that the peak power for a microprocessor is usually 1.5 times the TDP rating (this is because they are not the same thing and not meant to reflect the same thing)

I'm wrong,, wikipedia is wrong, think I'm out of this thread for a while

 

[Glo.]

You expect the TDP to reflect power consumption, that is where you are categorically wrong...

For **** sake...

I used Ryzen 5 3600's POWER DRAW, from the ElChapuzasInformatico's Review to make a point that N7 process is not as good as everybody hoped for, from Power point of view, in the context of Navi's POWER DRAW. Then, Guru jumped out, with his statement that no way in hell, if N7 is bad, they were able to Squeeze 105W TDP on AM4 MoBos.

Then I replied that Power Draw is not TDP.

You get right now, where you have made idiotic mistake?

Why you do not read the whole context, and understand it, before replying?

 

[Glo.]

Pretty much all the power used by a CPU ends up as heat.

Where do you suggest any of the energy ends up beside heat?

Most likely, using some people's logic, in the calculations done by the CPU.

 

[ubern00b]

Most likely, using some people's logic, in the calculations done by the CPU.

You know a PSU efficency rating means it takes more energy in than it outputs in heat? hence 80%/85%/87%/92% etc?

2600 platform is using 146W of power in this particular test. 83W more. You think that MoBo and RAM would consume more power, than the CPU, alone? I don't think so. Its safe to assume that Ryzen 5 2600 is in reality not 65W TDP CPU, but more like 85-90W CPU.

You quote the TDP first and then finish off with power consumption, it's a 65w TDP CPU, you need 65W cooling to get rid of the heat created, it can take in 150w/5000w of actual power for all it matters but the heat output out is a completely different thing altogether.

 

[Glo.]

You know a PSU efficency rating means it takes more energy in than it outputs in heat? hence 80%/85%/87%/92% etc?

PSU draws more power, than it can output power BECAUSE of heat loses.

And BTW, it was a joke.

You quote the TDP first and then finish off with power consumption, it's a 65w TDP CPU, you need 65W cooling to get rid of the heat created, it can take in 150w/5000w of actual power for all it matters but the heat output out is a completely different thing altogether.

I do not quote TDP. I quote power draw, for whole platform. I talk about Power draw of Ryzen 5 3600 in ECI review of that ES. All the time I talk about power draw, and how it is different than TDP. I tried to tell this to Guru, so that he may not talk about TDP in the context of power draw discussion.

Why are you so stubborn, to say that you did not understood the topic was being discussed, and you made a mistake?

 

[Guru]

No, they are not operating at advertised power envelope, at least when it comes for power draw.

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-06/intel-core-i7-8700t-i5-8500t-cpu-test-coffee-lake/3/
You can compare Core i7 8700T locked to 35W, which resulted in 63W power draw for whole platform. Ryzen 5 2400G which is the closest of all AMD CPUs to 65W TDP rating, in power draw consumed 67W more for whole platform.

2600 platform is using 146W of power in this particular test. 83W more. You think that MoBo and RAM would consume more power, than the CPU, alone? I don't think so. Its safe to assume that Ryzen 5 2600 is in reality not 65W TDP CPU, but more like 85-90W CPU.

Why are you comparing a locked cpu that operates at minimal frequencies designed for low power environments to a desktop cpu designed to operate at higher performance?

Plus the 2200G does consume only 124w. Again if we look at toms hardware reviews we can see that Ryzen processors are for the most part functioning within the power envelope.

Under maximum load the test system with a 8500T consumes 104W, while the Ryzen 2200G consumes 110W. That is pretty astounding considering one cpu is designed and locked to be low power, while the 2200g is a desktop gaming cpu.

 

[ubern00b]

I do not quote TDP

Why you making me do this?

I don't think so. Its safe to assume that Ryzen 5 2600 is in reality not 65W TDP CPU, but more like 85-90W CPU.

I've bolded YOUR quote where you specify TDP and then talk about power consumption in the same breath man? C'mon....

 

[Glo.]

Why you making me do this?



I've bolded YOUR quote where you specify TDP and then talk about power consumption in the same breath man? C'mon....

I made there a mistake. I thought about 65W POWER DRAW, but wrote about TDP. If you will change the TDP, to Power Draw, and look at it from the whole posts perspective, you will see that my message is coherent.

Will edit it in a moment.

 

[ubern00b]

I made there a mistake. I thought about 65W POWER DRAW, but wrote about TDP. If you will change the TDP, to Power Draw, and look at it from the whole posts perspective, you will see that my message is coherent.

Will edit it in a moment.

That's what I was saying all along, do you see my point now? I need a break, this threads giving me a headache man and we're way beyond OT right now

 

[lobz]

No.

It's very fair to react based on AMD's publicly revealed information.

Reacting is fair, going into hyperbole and declaring the whole architecture as doa is not, as some do.

 

[JDG1980]

According to ElChapuzasInformatico's review of Ryzen 5 3600, it appears that 7 nm process is not as good as everybody has hoped for. 3600 is consuming just 10W's less than 2600.

Both the 2600 and 3600 have the same rated TDP (65W), so why is this surprising?

The 3600 gains 200 MHz on the base clock and 300 MHz on the boost clock compared to the 2600. It also has about 15% higher IPC, and up to 2x the throughput on AVX-256 workloads. All this is at the same official TDP, and, apparently, a bit lower real-world power usage. In what way is that a disappointing showing for 7nm?

 

[JDG1980]

And what you can draw out of AMD's publicly disclosed information about Navi's Power draw, hm?

That it has slightly worse perf/watt than Turing despite the node advantage.

 

[ubern00b]

Both the 2600 and 3600 have the same rated TDP (65W), so why is this surprising?

The 3600 gains 200 MHz on the base clock and 300 MHz on the boost clock compared to the 2600. It also has about 15% higher IPC, and up to 2x the throughput on AVX-256 workloads. All this is at the same official TDP, and, apparently, a bit lower real-world power usage. In what way is that a disappointing showing for 7nm?

You get it

 

[maddie]

Most likely, using some people's logic, in the calculations done by the CPU.

Truly amazing how this myth stays alive.

 

[Glo.]

That it has slightly worse perf/watt than Turing despite the node advantage.

You cannot draw ANYTHING from what AMD has provided us, unless you are extremely biased towards Nvidia, or you are extremely biased Against AMD.

In other words, AMD stated that 40CU Navi GPU is using 23% less power than 40 CU Vega GPU. We haven't seen 40 Vega GPU. But we have seen 56 CU Vega GPU, and that it has 225W power draw. Could it be possible that Navi has LOWER power draw, than this?

In reality? No. You cannot draw ANY conclusions from what AMD provided about power efficiency of those GPUs.

 

[ubern00b]

Truly amazing how this myth stays alive.

Do please enlighten us how a 500w PSU can only output 500w yet can take in as much as 575w from the wall (based off the minimum spec for 80 plus rating which starts at 85%) where oh where have these electrons magically dissappeared to?