Rumor: Price Cuts on GTX660Ti series coming next week

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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
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For many or most users, idle wattage matters as well. This is especially true for those who leave their PCs idling for most of the day 24/7. Even for users who use their home PCs for, say, 4 hours a day on average, it's likely that a big fraction of those 4 hours are spent on email, websurfing, Word/Excel, movies, Youtube, arguing on online forums, etc. and not at 100% load. For instance, at 24/7 power-on with ~22 hours idle and a couple of hours gaming each day on average,Tahiti is more energy efficient relative to GK104 than you may think, due to ZeroCore power.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_660_Ti_Power_Edition/26.html
 
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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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Arguing this crap is ridiculous. The only thing that matters on a desktop are the indirect effects such as noise / heat, and that is largely a non issue with aftermarket coolers. Where efficiency matters are indirect effects and for mobile.

Unless you really care about paying 27 cents more per year. I understand that some are arguing testing methodology, but who the heck cares? 27 cents? This is really veering a long way from the pricecuts topic. Are there any intended pricecuts on any other products aside from the 660ti?
 
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tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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Arguing this crap is ridiculous. The only thing that matters on a desktop are the indirect effects such as noise, and that is largely a non issue with aftermarket coolers. Where efficiency matters are indirect effects and for mobile.

Unless you really care about paying 27 cents more per year. :rolleyes:

Like I have said several times over in the last few pages, I don't care which card, GPU, or vendor is most efficient. It's not what I'm getting at. Since I brought it up last night, I've been accused by a few different people for having a secret agenda at trying to say one chip or GPU is superior to another. I'm not at all trying to argue about it from a perspective of which card / architecture is better. I'm arguing from a perspective of what is the best way to measure power usage.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
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You're arguing testing methodology, I understand that. I never said that you have an agenda, my comment wasn't aimed at you at all. I understand what you're saying, i'm just trying to figure out how we got to this point. Shrug. Another day in the video card forum I guess :wub:
 

NIGELG

Senior member
Nov 4, 2009
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I wonder what the hell the title of this thread has to do with this power crap.

Can we discuss price cuts please??
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
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I'm trying to understand why this all is so important this thread has turned into the equivalent of arguing with a woman lol
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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You're arguing testing methodology, I understand that. I never said that you have an agenda, my comment wasn't aimed at you at all. I understand what you're saying, i'm just trying to figure out how we got to this point. Shrug. Another day in the video card forum I guess :wub:

I know; you weren't the ones saying I had ulterior motives.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
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It is up to date. I'm in the process of trying to get another card. I had a HIS iceq x2 7970 but returned it due to really bad coil whine.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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Arguing this crap is ridiculous. The only thing that matters on a desktop are the indirect effects such as noise / heat, and that is largely a non issue with aftermarket coolers. Where efficiency matters are indirect effects and for mobile.

Unless you really care about paying 27 cents more per year. I understand that some are arguing testing methodology, but who the heck cares? 27 cents? This is really veering a long way from the pricecuts topic. Are there any intended pricecuts on any other products aside from the 660ti?

I think it is important but how important may differ. If it wasn't important; why do sites actually take the time to measure power? Or the importance of performance/watt is today! It is important to me but more-so on the bottom of the important totem pole.

Amd's price/performance and OC potential may be very compelling to a prospective gamer -- certainly may make up for some efficiency. Allow the market to decide over-all what the consumer desires.
 

Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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I agree that within reason, a few watts makes absolutely no difference for custom built PCs because frankly, everyone is using a PSU that is far too large anyway. Have you seen some of the nutty responses around here? There are some people who seem to think you need a 650W PSU for a system that is going to have at most 300W wall draw (but, but, but 12V amperage!!!!). The HPs, Dells, etc of the world care about it because it lets them use smaller PSUs which drives down cost. Large companies would care (because 30W times a few tens of thousands of devices adds up), but large companies aren't often using mid range gaming cards.

It matters in regards to cooling (though noise level is probably a better measurement), but as far as money savings for power? Seriously?

Also, in very, very few places in the us is power 20c/kWh. Mine is only 11c/kWh and that is after all taxes, etc are factored in.
 
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Meekers

Member
Aug 4, 2012
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The Sapphire 7950 Vapor -X (Which is a 7950 Boost model) runs at .97v @ 950MHz and O/C's to 1135/1635 with no voltage modification or changes to the stock fan profile.

Nobody's disagreeing that the modified bios that AMD sent to reviewers set the voltage at 1.25v. It was silly of them because nVidia Fanbois will jump all over anything they can and run with it. In actuality it's very hard to buy a card with that voltage specification. There's only one reference 7950B listed on Newegg and it's OoS.

Again, nobody's disagreeing with what you are saying. Just that it's irrelevant.

To be fair it is not completely irrelevant. Obviously anyone on these boards who bought a 7950 would buy one of the top end aftermarket models, especially considering the price on them. I myself snagged a TF3 when it first hit $315 in early July. So to anyone that has spend 5 minutes doing research the reference 7950 is irrelevant. The problem is that I am afraid that not nearly enough people do this.

The reference 7950 cards exist and people are buying them and while they are still good cards at their current price they are clearly not as good as the aftermarket alternatives. What is worse is that these are the cards that get benchmarked that many people base their decisions on.

If there are 7950s out there that are bad enough that they actually need the 1.25V I think AMD is doing more harm than good by letting them exist. Maybe they needed to make a 7930 to dump those chips. There certainly was enough room in price between 7870 and 7950 when they released.

NVIDIA went to great lengths to control the conditions under which their cards were benched and provided top notch OC models. On the other hand AMD sent cards that were are significantly worse than the aftermarket varieties available for the same price. It resulted in benchmarks that were incredibly weighted against AMD and it was completely their own fault.

That is why it is relevant.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
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I agree that within reason, a few watts makes absolutely no difference for custom built PCs because frankly, everyone is using a PSU that is far too large anyway. Have you seen some of the nutty responses around here? There are some people who seem to think you need a 650W PSU for a system that is going to have at most 300W wall draw (but, but, but 12V amperage!!!!). The HPs, Dells, etc of the world care about it because it lets them use smaller PSUs which drives down cost. Large companies would care (because 30W times a few tens of thousands of devices adds up), but large companies aren't often using mid range gaming cards.

It matters in regards to cooling (though noise level is probably a better measurement), but as far as money savings for power? Seriously?

Also, in very, very few places in the us is power 20c/kWh. Mine is only 11c/kWh and that is after all taxes, etc are factored in.

I'm paying way more per kWh than you are and I'm not alone... and our friends in places like Hawaii, Europe, Africa, India, etc. definitely appreciate energy-efficient equipment. Power rates can be 10 times higher--or more--overseas. Businesses also appreciate more efficiency but I doubt anyone here is running their own server farm....

Anyway, I agree about modern PSUs, and not just because PSUs tend to be most efficient when loaded at 40-60% of max wattage and significantly less efficient if underloaded (less than 20% max wattage). There was a discussion about this where I said a top-quality Plat PSU with a decent 12v-rail amperage cushion was enough and will be MORE than enough in future years (as wattage for various parts continues to trend down with miniaturization). Some people with outdated advice made fun of me and even tried to defend their choice of cheaper "big wattage" PSUs in the name of having more "wiggle room" and because of bad experiences with inferior-quality PSUs that could not output their rated wattage. At least one even attempted to argue that "overbuying" wattage was good because it would give less stress to the PSU and lower temperatures, the laws of physics notwithstanding. I explained that higher efficiency = more wall power translates to actual DC current for your parts = less waste heat and therefore a Plat PSU gives off a lot less waste heat than a typical 80+ PSU, let alone non-80+ PSU, and backed it up with various reviews.

AFAIK, nobody ever admitted how outdated their "advice" was. Yeah it was good advice back in like, 2002 when PSU branding was less well-known and efficiency was overlooked, but times change and we know who makes good PSUs and who doesn't, now, so there is no excuse for someone running a 300W-at-peak-load system to buy a 1000W cheapo less-efficient PSU when they can pay a moderate premium for a Capstone 450W Gold, just to name one example.

The high-end Gold and Plat PSUs may not pay for their premium pricing for years in some parts of the world, true, but you also can get away with rightsizing your PSU and getting higher efficiency and as low or lower waste heat instead of buying 1000W PSUs. Especially since the better Gold and Plat PSUs have a ton of 12v amperage available, and that's what matters--not total wattage.

There are shoddy big PSUs out there that fail before they get anywhere near 100% load, sometimes not even 75% load. And sticking a bigger fan or bigger heatsinks on a less-efficient PSU is a lame solution to PSU fan noise... higher efficiency in the first place is a better solution.
 
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Ferzerp

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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I put a 500W PSU in my HTPC build, but it's a 500W PSU that is over 90% efficient when putting out somewhere between 50-60W so... In that case it didn't matter. (I wanted high quality, and fanless, and it was the best choice. Price wasn't a factor for me).
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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That's his reality. Ask what he sold them used for. I think in justifying his 6950 purchase, he flipped them for more than he paid ! They must have been special ! /sarcasm.

They were great for gaming but then I got into distributing computing projects that benefited greatly from double precision compute performance. At that point a single 6950 beat all 3 470s @ 750mhz. So I sold all 470s for minimal loss after using them for more than 1 year. They were good for gaming. Actually, I would even say this week's launch of the GTX660 would hardly be an upgrade from a single GTX470 @ 750mhz in terms of performance. That was more than 2 years ago.

The main point is you don't have to buy hot and loud cards. In the case of the 7950 and 7970, it's 100% pointless to discuss reference designed cards with 1.25V bios simply because:

1) No overclocker on air who wants to seriously overclock and have a quiet system will buy such cards;

2) Reference cooled HD7970 GE does not exist in retail. This card was a review sample only;

3) There are plenty of after-market binned 7950/7970 cards that come undervolted. Since this is an enthusiast forum where many of us share this type of information, if you happen to buy 1 out of 19 7950 cards that's an utter fail, you haven't been reading this forum. There is plenty of information around here which guides you exactly on what the best overclocking cards are from both NV and AMD!

4) Given that you have overclocked 460s in SLI, your arguments for ignoring overclocking and focusing on power consumption, while ignoring that a $320 Gigabyte Windforce 3x 7950 is uber quiet and can reach GTX680 performance under 190W of power while saving a gamer $180 are mind-blowing! :D

I guess price/performance, overclocking and after-market cards are out the window? You guys just cherry-pick what you want to focus on, while enthusiasts on this forum happily overclock their Core i5 2500k/i5 3570k/i7 2600k/2700k on quiet after-market coolers such as Noctua NH-D14, Corsair H100, Thermalright Silver Arrow, HR-02, Prolimatech Megahalems, etc.

The arguments coming forth now are nothing short of ignorant for an enthusiast forum. It's akin to comparing the heat and noise levels of a 4.4ghz Core i5 2500K on a stock Intel cooler. If you are doing that sort of thing, you only have yourself to blame for the excess temperatures and noise levels.

This applies to videocards as well. Pick the right card and it will do what you ask of it at very quiet noise levels and great overclocks.

Insisting on using reference blower cards with special BIOS as representative of the entire series of cards enthuasists can actually buy is pure ignorance in light of contradictory facts, especially since there is no such card for sale as HD7970 GE reference blower. :hmm:

You should put up the temperatures of your overclocked GTX460 @ 875mhz. Here is my "UBER HOT and LOUD" HD7970 @ 1150mhz on 1.074V average, with peak 1.174V @ 99% GPU load. It must be made up because AMD says the only way to get HD7970 to reach 1050mhz is by using a reference card and 1.25V BIOS.

79701150mhztempssept102.jpg


As you can see, that's at 98-100% GPU load for hours at a time. That's way more GPU intensive than any videogame. In videogames it's only about 62-64*C.

The power draw is < 210W on this overclock. Plenty of enthusiasts here have way better binned 7970s than mine. Mine is just average. Some people on our forum reach 1265-1300mhz on their 7970s and they still run cool, not at 105*C at 100% fan speed.
 
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AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
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I asked because I'm honestly not sure. Could be referring to reference cards, different Radeon models, Nvidia cards...
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
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They meaning what?

The context was Radeon after market cards! They're not a no-brainer blanket choice to consider! Neither GPU product offerings are from nVidia or AMD -- both have pros and cons to me.

Choose the product sku that best fits one subjective taste, tolerance and wallet -- have fun.

So, so, glad I allow the market place to decide.