RTX continues to seriously disappoint me

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Dribble

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2005
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Why? Both the 5700XT and 5700 can be excellent deals for people that aren't obsessing over a feature that doesn't even work particularly well right now. Folks with 5700XTs are not going to be crying because they can't run the new Minecraft (that had no shader-level lighting tricks anyway) with RT. It's clear as day that existing RTX hardware from NV isn't ready for prime-time. It'll take at least one more iteration of hardware changes before RT is a feature you'd want to turn on in every game. You'd have to be crazy to buy a card specifically because it does have RTX just because - it doesn't work right! The reason to buy NV cards (if any) is that they tend to run faster than AMD cards in anything that doesn't use RT.

Bottom line, get the best performance you can within your price range. Ignore RT, it isn't ready yet and it won't cripple your gaming experience 2 years out.



Oh yes, the accountants will love that one. So will procurement.
I don't disagree that the current ray tracing cards, particularly the lowest end ones may not cut it next year when loads of AAA games have a ray tracing option, but that doesn't mean I'll spend $400 on a card today without it. I'll be much better keeping my current card for another year, saving up and buying a tier higher $500 card with ray tracing in 2020. If I really really had to buy a card then I'd go cheaper and buy again next year or stretch to a 2070S. The 5700's are just a price bracket to high - AMD should have aimed at the 1660's imo.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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He has a point though, for future proofing, you can't buy a GPU with no hardware RT
Why not? All you do is turn the RT off and away you go. It's not like developers are going to make AAA titles that require it. They'd be insane to alienate all the 1080 Ti owners (etc) out there that will want to buy and run their games. For them, they get the same old shader tricks in use by most of the industry. They won't be missing anything.

You can confidently buy a non-RT card today with the assumption that, if anything renders it obsolete in the future, it won't be RT. You can also buy an RTX card today and be confident that future RT titles will run like a slideshow.

The 5700's are just a price bracket to high - AMD should have aimed at he 1660's imo.
I agree there. I just don't see RT (or the lack thereof) as being critical to any decision to not buy those cards.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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I doubt there's such a thing as future proofing with today's hardware & prices. If Nvidia is 100% committed to ray tracing then next gen hardware will come with brutal jumps in performance, and as soon as AMD tries to join the party, most likely with lower hardware capabilities, Nvidia will push for higher and higher RT utilization to differentiate themselves. Today's Turing, tomorrow's Pascal. Here's to the crazy ones!
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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He has a point though, for future proofing, you can't buy a GPU with no hardware RT, not when consoles are going to have it, and not when almost every AAA release is adding RT right now.

Gamescom 2019 is full of RT announcements it's ridiculous. And AMD is being left out.
You are forgetting the fact that it makes games nearly unplayable if its enabled. And thats CURRENT games. Next gen games will be wholly unable to run on current RTX cards, with the except of the 2080Ti maybe.

And no, Gamescon has not been 'full' of RTX announcements. This is no different than when nVidia was paying off companies to use GameWorks. Just because nVidia pays off developers to use their technology does not mean their technology will be the future.
 
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Muhammed

Senior member
Jul 8, 2009
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Ray tracing requires Vulkan/DX12 titles which are an absolute drop in the bucket compared to all games available.
Yet AAA games are rushing to support both DX12 and DXR right now. So the situation is changing.

Just because consoles might have the hardware, doesn't mean every game will have it,
No, it means every AAA game will have it. Even Minecraft is going to have it on XBOX.
We saw the exact same announcements for PhysX,
Nope, any attempt to conflate the two is misguided at best, PhysX was not standard, it wasn't part of DX or Vulkan, nor was it part of consoles or major game engines. DXR and Ray Tracing is.
 

Muhammed

Senior member
Jul 8, 2009
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You are forgetting the fact that it makes games nearly unplayable if its enabled. And thats CURRENT games
No it doesn't, just search Youtube for dozens of videos of people running RT on their RTX hardware. Not all people game on high refresh monitors, most are satisfied with 60fps on 60Hz monitors, most actually use 1080p displays. A 2080 can run RT games fine @1440p. 2070 does the same @1080p.

Also RT is offered in a low/medium/high fashion, you don't need to run it at max if you own something like a 2060, you can run it at low/medium and still have a superior IQ to anything else from AMD or consoles.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
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No it doesn't, just search Youtube for dozens of videos of people running RT on their RTX hardware. Not all people game on high refresh monitors, most are satisfied with 60fps on 60Hz monitors, most actually use 1080p displays. A 2080 can run RT games fine @1440p. 2070 does the same @1080p.
A 2070 barely manages to run Metro Exodus at 1080p at 60fps unless you drop the IQ to "High" and then it can pull ~74fps. That might be okay for a single player game where your 60fps average drops into the 40's on occasion but wouldn't be great for multiplayer games.

But let's think about that for a sec. You spent $450-500 on a GPU to play games on a $100 monitor?

Also RT is offered in a low/medium/high fashion, you don't need to run it at max if you own something like a 2060, you can run it at low/medium and still have a superior IQ to anything else from AMD or consoles.
But the tradeoff will be lower performance compared to the equivalent AMD card. The decision isn't black and white in this case but whether the slightly better IQ is worth the dip in performance.
 
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Muhammed

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Jul 8, 2009
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And how many of them are going to wind up like Assetto Corsa?
Assetto Corsa developer didn't even implement a DX12 path for the game yet, they are obviously running a tight ship. Other AAA developers are comfortable with their resources.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Assetto Corsa developer didn't even implement a DX12 path for the game yet, they are obviously running a tight ship. Other AAA developers are comfortable with their resources.
Of course. The problem is resources.

. . .

heh.
 
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coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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Order of priorities:
1. Finish the game "for all of the platforms".
2. Integrate with Stadia because "we wanna put the game in as many people's hands as possible".
3. Support RTX "better than anybody honestly".

But I'm sure other AAA developers won't have the same priorities as id Software, unless...

 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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No it doesn't, just search Youtube for dozens of videos of people running RT on their RTX hardware. Not all people game on high refresh monitors, most are satisfied with 60fps on 60Hz monitors, most actually use 1080p displays. A 2080 can run RT games fine @1440p. 2070 does the same @1080p.

Also RT is offered in a low/medium/high fashion, you don't need to run it at max if you own something like a 2060, you can run it at low/medium and still have a superior IQ to anything else from AMD or consoles.
Wait, so out of all the people that have purchased RTX cards, there are as many as 'dozens' actually using RTX? Thats impressive, but for the wrong reasons.

As for your comment regarding performance, no, a 2080 cannot run RT games fine with RT enabled at 1440P. Even a 2080S barely manages to average 60fps at 1440P with RTX on in Metro with lows dipping below 40fps. Nobody spends $700 on a card to play at 40fps. Its complete BS.

There is zero reason to be cheer-leading nVidia for the things the pull. Take the blinders off. RTX will one day be the norm, but it isn't now, and todays cards will be worthless once it is.
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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2070 barely manages to run Metro Exodus at 1080p at 60fps unless you drop the IQ to "High" and then it can pull ~74fps.
That's dropping DXR to high, not the global settings.

Seriously, what's up with the lies? DXR settings at high, which is beyond ultra settings and IQ wise beyond extreme also, is just a sliver off from 60FPS on a 2060.

A 2060 curb stomps a RadeonVII in this game and laughs at the half baked 5700xt or the pathetic 1080ti. This isn't fair, non RT cards like the Rendition Verite and the 5700xt just belong in a legacy class with low IQ only cards.

The idiocy of claiming Microsoft was paid by nVidia to add Microsoft's DXR to their own game, really? Go back to whomever gives you your talking points, or their boss, and tell them no rational person is a big enough moron to buy that stuff.

Microsoft creates the DXR standard, Microsoft forces AMD to actually stop being the anchor holding the entire graphics industry back and add support for their upcoming console, and then somehow expect people to believe nVidia bribed(as if they have that much money) them to add support into their own game?

How utterly moronic do you think people are? That is just demanding an entirely new level of stupid.





This post is full of insults and flamebait and incendiary language.
It's not allowed here.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director
 
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happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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Ray tracing requires Vulkan/DX12 titles which are an absolute drop in the bucket compared to all games available. Heck, there are indie titles coming out right now that still target XP/DX9 as a minimum. And of those DX12/Vulkan games, most don't support ray tracing. So you're looking at a fraction of a fraction of games.

Ray tracing will be a bit more popular when the hardware finds it more trivial to run, but nowhere near the overblown doomsday claims we're hearing. Just because consoles might have the hardware, doesn't mean every game will have it, just like not every console game runs at 1080p60.


We saw the exact same announcements for PhysX, including in this very forum where we got amended lists almost every day. Likewise for low-level APIs. Remember when Mantle was going to "kill" DX11 and all indie games would get "automatic" performance gains from DX12? Yet for every DX12 game, there are one hundred DX9/DX11 games that are released.

It's completely overblown by nVidia in an effort to sell the overpriced and under-spec'd Turing line. We already have very good approximated lighting and global illumination from rasterization that runs fast. Ray tracing is an incremental IQ gain in exchange for a colossal performance cost and vastly overpriced hardware.

So..whatever happened to PhysX and 3D Vision?

Physx will be also implemented in the new xbox 2.
Did you miss that announcement ?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Yes, as evident by the developer not even managing to make the game work in DX12 mode.
Are you implying that they even tried? Personally I don't know why they had a DX11 design target, but I see no indication that a). they couldn't design for DX12 and b). that they even tried to do so.
 

kondziowy

Member
Feb 19, 2016
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Pretty good looking effects. I like it.
Imagine buying 1080p 120Hz display in year 2009. This is the best investment in pc gaming in history. Almost a decade and still good enough display that brings top gpu to it's knees. Samsung 2233rz is the legend. There is still no gpu that will max out this monitor.

edit: ugh sry I thought 2233rz was 1080p. Year 2010 then :D
 
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Mar 11, 2004
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Pretty good looking effects. I like it.
Imagine buying 1080p 120Hz display in year 2009. This is the best investment in pc gaming in history. Almost a decade and still good enough display that brings top gpu to it's knees. Samsung 2233rz is the legend. There is still no gpu that will max out this monitor.
o_O I'm pretty sure there's recent games that wouldn't have too much issue hitting 120fps at 1680x1050.

Not to mention how the CCFL backlight would be reduced in output in the 10 years since, or how horrible the colors of a 2009 TN panel would be compared to even TN panels today.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
21,489
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Yet AAA games are rushing to support both DX12 and DXR right now. So the situation is changing.
Sure, sure, just like they were rushing to support hardware PhysX.

Say, whatever happened to the game-changing TXAA? Games were "rushing to support" that, too.

No, it means every AAA game will have it. Even Minecraft is going to have it on XBOX.
Next generation consoles will support 8K. In your own words explain if all such console AAA games will run at 8K native. Also explain why or why not.

Nope, any attempt to conflate the two is misguided at best, PhysX was not standard, it wasn't part of DX or Vulkan, nor was it part of consoles or major game engines. DXR and Ray Tracing is.
Current consoles already support 4K. 4K works in any API and is a far bigger standard than RTX/DXR will ever be.

So demonstrate to us how every current console AAA game supports 4K natively.

Assetto Corsa developer didn't even implement a DX12 path for the game yet, they are obviously running a tight ship.
Why would a "tight ship" make a difference to flipping a simple switch that "automatically works everywhere with no developer effort?"
 
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