Rowing

[Terzo]

So I want to lose weight; looking here the general agreement seems to be eat healthy, lift weights, and do cardio (the interval type if possible).

Well, besides drinking too much soda (I try to avoid buying it, but I'm a sucker for deals such as buy 2 get 3 free), I think I eat fairly healthy. So I'm not concerned about that.

As for actual exercise, I've learned a few things. Mainly, I don't like weight lifting. For whatever reason, I just can't get enthusiastic about it. For what it's worth, I don't mind stuff like push-ups, pull-ups, or sit-ups.

I don't mind running. Even when I don't feel like going for a run, once I actually get out there I enjoy myself. But it's winter, and I don't like running in the cold. I've run at the gym track before, but I don't like running in circles. And everyone here says to do mix in weights with cardio.

So I thought about rowing (machines). I've done it a fair amount, and I generally like it. I'm starting it up again, but I want to see what you guys think.
A lot of people say rowing covers a lot of muscles; does this count as "weights"? In that sense, would rowing (muscle training+cardio) be better than running (just cardio)?
How often should I row? Is it something I should do everyday? Would 3 times a week be fine? Right now I'm at 5 kilometers, but I want to bump that up to 10.
Finally, can I apply interval training to rowing, or should I just row at a constant pace?

I don't know how to wrap this up so

 

[irishScott]

Yes, it covers a lot of muscles, but it won't give you the strength pure weight training would. And it doesn't do much for the triceps. That said, it will definitely make you significantly stronger if you keep at it. So will push-ups.
http://www.concept2.com/us/tra.../tools/musclesused.asp

Rowing generally burns more calories/time than running, but it requires more effort IMO. Running up an incline will compensate and make the two exercises about equal in terms of calorie burning. Running provides better cardio, but little if any core exercise. Rowing provides significant core exercise, but not the same caliber of cardio.

Personally, I row every other day and do something in between (running, swimming, martial art, etc) just to vary the routine and work out the few muscles/systems that rowing misses. I don't like lifting weights (although I do have a few dumbbells I use occasionally). You could certainly row every day if your body can take it and you don't push yourself too hard, but rowing doesn't do everything, so you'll be deficient in some areas. I'd also find it pretty bland.

I've seen both interval training and pacing. Personally, I recommend rowing at a constant pace to build up your core strength and then switching over to interval training when you feel ready. Interval training is (obviously) much more anaerobically intensive. Pacing is better on the whole for cardio IMO, but you'll still get a good cardio workout from interval training.

Hope I helped.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: Terzo
So I want to lose weight; looking here the general agreement seems to be eat healthy, lift weights, and do cardio (the interval type if possible).

Well, besides drinking too much soda (I try to avoid buying it, but I'm a sucker for deals such as buy 2 get 3 free), I think I eat fairly healthy. So I'm not concerned about that.

As for actual exercise, I've learned a few things. Mainly, I don't like weight lifting. For whatever reason, I just can't get enthusiastic about it. For what it's worth, I don't mind stuff like push-ups, pull-ups, or sit-ups.

I don't mind running. Even when I don't feel like going for a run, once I actually get out there I enjoy myself. But it's winter, and I don't like running in the cold. I've run at the gym track before, but I don't like running in circles. And everyone here says to do mix in weights with cardio.

So I thought about rowing (machines). I've done it a fair amount, and I generally like it. I'm starting it up again, but I want to see what you guys think.
A lot of people say rowing covers a lot of muscles; does this count as "weights"? In that sense, would rowing (muscle training+cardio) be better than running (just cardio)?
How often should I row? Is it something I should do everyday? Would 3 times a week be fine? Right now I'm at 5 kilometers, but I want to bump that up to 10.
Finally, can I apply interval training to rowing, or should I just row at a constant pace?

I don't know how to wrap this up so

Finally, someone asking the right questions A lot of people don't necessarily "like" lifting, but it's the results that are beneficial. I myself don't really mind it, but you have to keep your goals in mind. If you want to lose weight and maintain your muscle mass, you're gonna have to lift - plain and simple.

Rowing machines are a great option for cardio, but no they don't count as "weights." Their resistance is far to small to be considered this. I think rowing is a great exercise, but I'm not sure how to compare running and rowing. They're both good for you and you can do both as cardio options. You can row as much as you'd like. Think of it in the same terms as how often you run. You can do it everyday, a couple times a week - whatever you like. If you're looking to lose weight though, I'd try to do it as often as possible (probably 5 days a week, if you can).

Finally, yes, you can apply interval training to rowing. Like I said, consider it the same type of exercise as running. You can do intervals, run slow, run fast, whatever you'd like. Pretty much, if you find something you like, you can use it for HIIT. Hope I helped. GL.

 

[edcarman]

I agree with the above. Both intervals and steady sessions have their place in a structured rowing program. That said, if I was forced to choose between the two I would probably go for intervals. I find it easier to maintain concentration, focus and intensity over, for example, 6x2000m intervals than a single 60min steady-state piece.

There is one caveat for rowing intervals: as with any high intensity exercise you need to ensure you have good technique. If your technique is incorrect, there is a much higher risk of doing something bad to your lower back.

Here are two links showing good technique:
Concept2 Rowing Machines | Technique
Good technique animation

Both the Concept2.co.uk and Concept2.com sites are also worth browsing to find more info on rowing and some suggested training sessions for the indoor rower.

 

[TecHNooB]

Rowing is awesome! I wish I had my own rowing machine tho They cost a fortune.

 

[StageLeft]

Yeah it's good, no it doesn't cover weights, with cardio the more the merrier. It's almost impossible to overtrain it, as long as your joints are doing ok and you're eating properly.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: edcarman
I agree with the above. Both intervals and steady sessions have their place in a structured rowing program. That said, if I was forced to choose between the two I would probably go for intervals. I find it easier to maintain concentration, focus and intensity over, for example, 6x2000m intervals than a single 60min steady-state piece.

There is one caveat for rowing intervals: as with any high intensity exercise you need to ensure you have good technique. If your technique is incorrect, there is a much higher risk of doing something bad to your lower back.

Here are two links showing good technique:
Concept2 Rowing Machines | Technique
Good technique animation

Both the Concept2.co.uk and Concept2.com sites are also worth browsing to find more info on rowing and some suggested training sessions for the indoor rower.

Solid advice here, but I would suggest going with a lower distance, especially at first. 6x2000 seems like a ton. I would start doing like 500m intervals, maybe even less depending on how your fitness it. Up to you though! And yes, make sure your form is sparkling so you don't get any injuries.

 

[glenn beck]

Get the Water Rower much smoother than the Concept 2

 

[Terzo]

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll start off by working my way up to 10k, rowing every other day. Once I hit 10k I'll see if I can transition that to intervals.
For the days in between, I guess I'll suck it up and figure out a basic weight routine.

 

[IGBT]

..check out the BodyCraft VR 100. Great rower. Institutional construction and weight.

 

[FearoftheNight]

Do not use 10 as your setting.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: FearoftheNight
Do not use 10 as your setting.

..good advise. I use 3-4. beyond that it's too hard on my back.

 

[Terzo]

Cranking resistance up to 10 has always been the first thing I've done; why shouldn't I do that?

 

[edcarman]

Originally posted by: Terzo
Cranking resistance up to 10 has always been the first thing I've done; why shouldn't I do that?

Unless your technique is good and your rate is pretty low, there's a really good chance you'll do something bad to your back at resistance 10 if you're working at any kind of reasonable intensity and duration.

See my reply in post 14 on the linked page.

Depending on the crew weigth, a resistance of 4-6 (drag factor 110-140) usually corresponds to the feel of a racing shell. If I'm doing a time trial I prefer using drag factor rather than resistance, since resistance can change from machine to machine and also depends on altitude.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: edcarman

Originally posted by: Terzo
Cranking resistance up to 10 has always been the first thing I've done; why shouldn't I do that?

Unless your technique is good and your rate is pretty low, there's a really good chance you'll do something bad to your back at resistance 10 if you're working at any kind of reasonable intensity and duration.

See my reply in post 14 on the linked page.

Depending on the crew weigth, a resistance of 4-6 (drag factor 110-140) usually corresponds to the feel of a racing shell. If I'm doing a time trial I prefer using drag factor rather than resistance, since resistance can change from machine to machine and also depends on altitude.

..that's my experience. I'm looking to burn fat so a steady medium resistance for 1 hour or more gives me a good sweat out without damaging my physical structure.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: edcarman

Originally posted by: Terzo
Cranking resistance up to 10 has always been the first thing I've done; why shouldn't I do that?

Unless your technique is good and your rate is pretty low, there's a really good chance you'll do something bad to your back at resistance 10 if you're working at any kind of reasonable intensity and duration.

See my reply in post 14 on the linked page.

Depending on the crew weigth, a resistance of 4-6 (drag factor 110-140) usually corresponds to the feel of a racing shell. If I'm doing a time trial I prefer using drag factor rather than resistance, since resistance can change from machine to machine and also depends on altitude.

..that's my experience. I'm looking to burn fat so a steady medium resistance for 1 hour or more gives me a good sweat out without damaging my physical structure.

Personally, I've always done about 30 min - 1 hour of level 10, paced at around 27-32 s/m (with a few 1 minute Gatorade and/or rest breaks scattered). My back got sore initially, but it never blew out. Now it's solid I have no trouble. As long as your technique is good, your back should be fine.

This is on a concept2 model D (gym)

 

[FearoftheNight]

The 1-10 isn't so much of resistance as a drag factor as it is a setting of inertia. Assuming that 10 > * is a pretty meathead approach to things. 10 = less strokes each being harder 5 = more strokes each being easier. This is coming from a crew team perspective. The best gauge for ur speed rather is your split. time/500 m.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: edcarman

Originally posted by: Terzo
Cranking resistance up to 10 has always been the first thing I've done; why shouldn't I do that?

Unless your technique is good and your rate is pretty low, there's a really good chance you'll do something bad to your back at resistance 10 if you're working at any kind of reasonable intensity and duration.

See my reply in post 14 on the linked page.

Depending on the crew weigth, a resistance of 4-6 (drag factor 110-140) usually corresponds to the feel of a racing shell. If I'm doing a time trial I prefer using drag factor rather than resistance, since resistance can change from machine to machine and also depends on altitude.

..that's my experience. I'm looking to burn fat so a steady medium resistance for 1 hour or more gives me a good sweat out without damaging my physical structure.

Personally, I've always done about 30 min - 1 hour of level 10, paced at around 27-32 s/m (with a few 1 minute Gatorade and/or rest breaks scattered). My back got sore initially, but it never blew out. Now it's solid I have no trouble. As long as your technique is good, your back should be fine.

This is on a concept2 model D (gym)

..no doubt we are all different. For my size/frame 3-4 works fine. More then that my technique suffers. I use a magnetic machine so there's no belt drag. It's pure resistance. I suspect actual resistance varys much from machine to machine with the higher quality rowers providing more linear resistance thru the available range.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: edcarman

Originally posted by: Terzo
Cranking resistance up to 10 has always been the first thing I've done; why shouldn't I do that?

Unless your technique is good and your rate is pretty low, there's a really good chance you'll do something bad to your back at resistance 10 if you're working at any kind of reasonable intensity and duration.

See my reply in post 14 on the linked page.

Depending on the crew weigth, a resistance of 4-6 (drag factor 110-140) usually corresponds to the feel of a racing shell. If I'm doing a time trial I prefer using drag factor rather than resistance, since resistance can change from machine to machine and also depends on altitude.

..that's my experience. I'm looking to burn fat so a steady medium resistance for 1 hour or more gives me a good sweat out without damaging my physical structure.

Personally, I've always done about 30 min - 1 hour of level 10, paced at around 27-32 s/m (with a few 1 minute Gatorade and/or rest breaks scattered). My back got sore initially, but it never blew out. Now it's solid I have no trouble. As long as your technique is good, your back should be fine.

This is on a concept2 model D (gym)

..no doubt we are all different. For my size/frame 3-4 works fine. More then that my technique suffers. I use a magnetic machine so there's no belt drag. It's pure resistance. I suspect actual resistance varys much from machine to machine with the higher quality rowers providing more linear resistance thru the available range.

Agreed. And magnetic systems are a bitch. But I can do level 10 on those... for about 15 minutes . They're great if you're focusing more on strength.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

magnetic systems

I have never seen any magnetic rowers, anybody got a link or info?

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb

magnetic systems

I have never seen any magnetic rowers, anybody got a link or info?

http://www.rowing-machine-1.com/

Hydraulic Rowing Machine

The hydraulic rowing machine may be the best way to go if space is a concern, or if you?re on a tight budget and you want an economical indoor rower. Hydraulic rowing machines receive its tension from the amount of air or fluid that?s compressed with a cylinder or piston, and can be adjusted by most models of indoor rowers.

Although hydraulic based indoor rowers are low-cost, they differ from air, magnetic and water rowers because the rowing machine technique doesn?t allow you to pull in a straight line. The majority of hydraulic piston based rowers require you be placed in an exercise position that does not allow you to perform a natural rowing motion. Because of this, you are unable to naturally synchronize your arm and leg movements together.

Flywheel Rowing Machines

The air or flywheel rowing machine for exercise offers a similar feel to outdoor rowing. Flywheel exercise rowing machine receives its resistance from the pulling motion, which spins a flywheel with fan blades attached. The resistance is provided by the wind. To increase the resistance of a flywheel rowing machine, all you have to do is pull harder. This moves the flywheel faster, and a greater wind resistance is provided from the fan blades of this type of indoor rower.

Compared to piston/cylinder or hydraulic based rowing machines, air rowing machines provide a more natural, continuous, and smoother rowing stroke.

The Concept 2 (or Concept II) rower is among the most popular flywheel air rowing machines. This machine is used by fitness enthusiasts, health clubs, corporate fitness centers, and rehabilitation clinics as well. Along with health, fitness and rehabilitation purposes, the Concept2 is the rowing machine of choice for indoor rowing competitions around the globe, such s the Crash-B Sprints World Indoor Rowing Championships and the European Indoor Rowing Championships.

Magnetic Resistance Indoor Rowers

A magnetic resistance fitness rowing machine is known for being virtually silent and providing a smooth rowing stroke. Unlike flywheel based indoor rowers which receives its resistance from the wind, magnetic rowing machines utilizes a magnetic brake system.

One of the main aspects you?ll notice with magnetic rowing machines is that is doesn?t product much sound at all. Rowing machines based on magnetic resistance produces no friction (like the flywheel or Water Rowers), thus providing a silent workout.

Fitness rowing machines based on magnetic resistance are available utilizing only magnet resistance or a combination of magnetic and air resistance.

The WaterRower

The WaterRower is an ideal rowing machine for those who participate in outdoor rowing. The Water Rower's unique patented Water Flywheel has been designed to emulate the dynamics of a boat moving through water. Just like rowing outdoors, the WaterRowers? flywheel receives its resistance by overcome the effects of drag as water moves past the tank. This indoor rower is also virtually silent when in use. All you hear is the swishing of the water while using this rowing machine.

The WaterRower is constructed with a wooden frame. This makes this rowing machine one of the most attractive models available, and the mechanical vibrations (common to other indoor rowers) are dampened. There is also a commercial version of the Water Rower sporting a metal frame.

Another model of water based rowing machine is the First Degree Fitness Fluid Rowing Machine.

 

[edcarman]

Hydraulic Rowing Machine
The WaterRower

The WaterRower is an ideal rowing machine for those who participate in outdoor rowing. The Water Rower's unique patented Water Flywheel has been designed to emulate the dynamics of a boat moving through water. Just like rowing outdoors, the WaterRowers? flywheel receives its resistance by overcome the effects of drag as water moves past the tank. This indoor rower is also virtually silent when in use. All you hear is the swishing of the water while using this rowing machine.

I have not used a WaterRower so I can't comment on the validity of this claim. It may be that their specific design does allow this.

If, however, they are making the claim purely because the flywheel moves through water and the boat moves through water then they are talking complete bullshit. A small wheel rotating in an enclosed space a very different fluid dynamic system to a long, slender hull skimming over a free surface.

The ConceptII has become the de facto standard for rowing machines used by competitive rowers. This is for a large part due to it's electronics. They provide an accurate and repeatable way to record workout intensity (a 2000m session at 1:50 on day 1 will be the same intensity as a 2000m session at 1:50 on day 6, even if a different C2 machine is used).
They also provide a reliable way to compare ANY two rowers, anywhere in the world..