Routine changes

[Pantlegz]

I didn't get any responses in my journal, maybe this will work better. I was thinking about maybe trying to add some mass doing 3x8-10 rather than 5x5ish. And maybe add a few upper body isolation exercises in there for good measure. How much space should I put between the 2 different routines? I was thinking about switching off every other week. So one week of 5x5 then the next week would be 3x10 with numbers based off a % of the week before. Good idea? Or should I go about this differently? I don't want to add a lot of mass since I'm trying to lose weight but I think I'm dense enough and it's time to add a little size. Would also allow my body to recover from the heavy lifting a little better too? Would adding mass necessarily mean adding weight or could I add a little size with little to no weight gain?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I didn't get any responses in my journal, maybe this will work better. I was thinking about maybe trying to add some mass doing 3x8-10 rather than 5x5ish. And maybe add a few upper body isolation exercises in there for good measure. How much space should I put between the 2 different routines? I was thinking about switching off every other week. So one week of 5x5 then the next week would be 3x10 with numbers based off a % of the week before. Good idea? Or should I go about this differently? I don't want to add a lot of mass since I'm trying to lose weight but I think I'm dense enough and it's time to add a little size. Would also allow my body to recover from the heavy lifting a little better too? Would adding mass necessarily mean adding weight or could I add a little size with little to no weight gain?

I saw your post in your thread, but what you're pondering is a little odd. If you're looking to gain mass, you need to be working a caloric surplus. A 3x5 should work for you to gain mass. If you feel like you're lacking in certain areas physically, you can add some isolation work on a 3x5 program as well. Programs using 8-10 reps have shown to elicit more sarcoplasmic hypertrophy than myofibrillar hypertrophy. What does that mean? You get more mass, but it's not contractile. So you don't get stronger from it, you just get bigger. Honestly, I say if you wanna get bigger, you go heavy for some isolation/accessory movements each session. Then you wouldn't have to worry about literally changing programs each week.

If you're looking to gain size (typically desired as muscle mass), you will very likely need to gain weight. Considering muscle is quite dense, if you want to get more of it, you'll gain weight in general. That is, unless you don't like your current body fat percentage, where you'd essentially just have to bulk and cut. There's no way to just add "mass" or "size" without adding weight. They're all functions of one another, they can't be independent.

 

[Pantlegz]

I don't really feel that I'm lacking except maybe in my arms/chest area but it's not a big deal. I don't necessarily want to be bigger but I was thinking that larger muscles would help my lifts in 3 ways. Larger muscles mean there is more push/pull just because there is more muscle there to push/pull. It would also mean there is more surface area for muscle fibers and thus more strength. Even if the 8-10 rep range only adds size the 5x5 week would allow for more solid muscle to fill in, right? It would also increase my glycogen stores which mean more energy for my muscles, not just lifting but also in BJJ. The lighter week would also be a sort of active deload but done weekly rather than once every month or 2. This might slow down lift progress but it might ensure I don't push myself too hard/far. And maybe allow for adequate recovery, I don't log my BJJ training but right now I have one day a week that I'm not very physically active for at least a hour but normally 2+. And I'm going to talk to the guys about doing more no gi and kick boxing for the next month or 2 mostly just for the added workout but I've been thinking about fighting more lately even though I've got a million other things I should worry about..

The only issue I can think of at this point is weight gain. I REALLY don't want to compete at above 220-225(depending on who's rules they use) and I'm having a hard time getting there the way it is. I could cut water if needed but that's not something I really want to do. I do have some fat to lose, I'll be posting my quarterly progress pic in my log sometime soon but looking at the last one and my squat video I'd say I've got a good 10-15lbs of fat that could come off pretty easily and kind of judge from there where I need to be weight wise.

As far as my caloric state, I'm not sure really. I eat a ton of food. breakfast being the smallest is normally 4-6 eggs, 1-2 slice(s) of bread and some sort of fruit(grapefruit lately) later meals in the day consist of veggies and about a pound of meat, some milk here and there and whatever sounds good with the meal I'm cooking. My weight last night was 240 but that was end of the day weight, I'll update tonight after BJJ and see what it's at, probably just a little under 235.

 

[Pantlegz]

Oh and as far as completely changing my routine every week that wouldn't really be the case. I would still do the same exercises just change the rep/set range and maybe do some extra accessory stuff.

 

[Pantlegz]

Probably way over thought this but this is a sample based roughly off last weeks numbers:


Week1
(monday)
Squat:
5x245
5x335
5x385
5x425
5x475

Bench:
5x155
5x205
5x245
5x275
5x315

BB Rows(superset BB ab Rollouts):
5x135
5x155
5x185
5x225

Palloff Press:
3x8 - 10 second holds

Prone Bridges:
3x90sec

(Tuesday)
Squats:
5x245
5x335
5x425
5x455

Deadlift:
5x225
8x315
5x405
5x455

Press:
5x135
5x155
5x165
5x185

Seated Cable Rows:
3x8x150

*random core work*
~3x8

(Thursday)
Squat:
5x245
5x335
5x385
5x425
3x495
8x405

Bench:
5x175
5x205
5x245
5x275
3x345
8x245

BB Rows(superset BB ab Rollouts):
5x135
5x155
5x185
5x225
3x265
8x155

Palloff Press:
3x8 - 10 second holds

Prone Bridges:
3x90sec

Week2

(Sunday)
Squat:
3x10x405

Bench:
3x10x265

Row:
3x10x185

BB ab Rollouts:
3x10x...

Weighted dips:
3x10x..

(Tuesday)
Squat:
3x10x360

Deadlift:
3x10x385

Press:
3x1x155

Palloff Press:
3x10x..

(explosive)chin ups
3x10x(eventually add weight)


(Thursday)
Squat:
3x10x405

Bench:
3x10x265

Row:
3x10x185

BB ab Rollouts:
3x10x...

Weighted dips:
3x10x..


Thoughts, ideas, suggestions... Am I being stupid?

 

[Sixguns]

Went and did some reading about this and now I am even more confused. I feel now like doing three months of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy followed by two months of myofibrillar hypertrophy would be good. You could do size followed by strength. Does this really work or must you only train one way? I have always been doing sarcoplasmic hypertrophy 3x10 for a little over a year. I have seen a lot of increase in strength and size but since I am not worried on being this huge dude should I switch to a 5x5 for just pure strength? Dont get me wrong, I would like to look good and have some size and that will happen anyways so should I stick to the 3x10 mode.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

You're overthinking things quite a bit. Yes, if you increase your muscle mass, you'll have increased physiological cross-sectional area. That is a general trend. However, as I said, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is different from myofibrillar hypertrophy. The former results in less strength gain per physiological cross-sectional gain. That's what you're doing with higher reps. Also, keep in mind that to gain muscle, you have to gain mass. That is how it works, unless you're a novice weightlifter.

Having increased glycogen stores would only be proportional to the muscle that you'd have or gain. You would have to actively condition yourself aerobically and anaerobically to improve your glycogen per unit of muscle mass.

I honestly don't foresee you making more gains on a program like that. If you're interested in perhaps getting out of a rut or making things more exciting, lighten the loads up and do a circuit. Do a simple couplet of 225lb back squat and 10 strict pullups, 5 times. It's CF-like, but you can make it meet whatever goals you need - whether that's mass gain, skill specific, strength gain, etc.

 

[Pantlegz]

I honestly don't foresee you making more gains on a program like that.

How is it different from WS4SB III or similar splits where you do high rep and low rep work in the same week? Except it would just be 7 days later not 2-3 days later like those methods? I'm not trying to be argumentative I just don't understand the difference. I know lots of people have luck with Westside Barbell programs this would essentially be a slight variation on that. Except they suggest squatting once a week rather than 3 times and don't take into consideration all the other exercise I do. I know it's going to be hell for my body to recover but honestly that's what I need right now I need to be physically and mentally exhausted when I get home at night, every night. I want it to suck, I kind of want/need to suffer a little bit....

 

[SociallyChallenged]

How is it different from WS4SB III or similar splits where you do high rep and low rep work in the same week? Except it would just be 7 days later not 2-3 days later like those methods? I'm not trying to be argumentative I just don't understand the difference. I know lots of people have luck with Westside Barbell programs this would essentially be a slight variation on that. Except they suggest squatting once a week rather than 3 times and don't take into consideration all the other exercise I do. I know it's going to be hell for my body to recover but honestly that's what I need right now I need to be physically and mentally exhausted when I get home at night, every night. I want it to suck, I kind of want/need to suffer a little bit....

Westside Barbell trains a lot more for neural coordination and gains. In addition, they do higher rep work specifically to strengthen connective tissue. Most of the stuff they do actually isn't for mass, considering the guys who work at that level are big enough. They just need to make more neural gains. Their goals are different than your's and the caliber of athlete is a little different as well. They are at a much higher percentage of their genetic maximum than you are. I'm all for varying reps and such, but with your goal in mind, this is not the best way to go about going it functionally.

Also, WSBB works stuff in within a given week, so they get heavy

 

[Pantlegz]

So if I goal weren't to gain mass but to get stronger, which is all I really care about, would my suggested routine be something to look into or should I just say screw it and look at some WSBB/juggernaut/ 5/3/1 programs? Not that my idea is better, but possibly viable...

I just figured some more mass would mean more strength easier... In reality if I can get stronger and not have to gain any/much weight I would be happy.

And it's not so much I've plateaued, again, but more that I'm trying to prevent that by changing up before I stall. I still enjoy the program I'm on but I feel it's run its course and the end is near, I'm just looking for options to move on from it before I've stalled.

 

[tedrodai]

I just figured some more mass would mean more strength easier... In reality if I can get stronger and not have to gain any/much weight I would be happy.

I assume you specifically mean sarcoplasmic rather than myofibril hypertrophy when you say 'more mass' (because it does add more mass than the 2nd), but you do gain mass either way. Which gets us to point #2. If you add any muscle mass (whether 'size-' or 'strength-' based gains), you will gain weight, period. To lose weight without losing muscle, you gotta make concessions elsewhere in the body, i.e. fat. (though any cutting will probably affect muscle mass too somewhat, yada yada)

But no, adding 'size' won't make it easier for strength gains. Train for strength to get strength, size to get size; you'll get a little of each even if focussing on the other.

 

[darkxshade]

What are you doing with 5x5? Sets across, ascending, reverse pyramid?

What I usually do to switch things up to get stronger is to switch between 5x5 to 3x5 from any variation of sets across to reverse pyramid and back to my baseline routine which is 5x5 sets across. The idea is to either do less sets with higher weights or to do more sets with relatively the same avg weight and ramping that up. It doesn't make sense to lower weights if you wanna get stronger, your body adapts to the stress and in order to get stronger would mean that stress has to get heavier, not lighter.

For example with squats, it went something like this for me over the last few months:

5x5 sets across @ 225
5x5 sets across @ 235
5x5 sets across @ 245 (got tough, stalled at this for a couple weeks)
3x5 sets across @ 250 (was easier than I thought with 2 less sets)
5x5 reverse pyramid @ 255/250/245/240/235(just as tough as the 245 5x5 across)
3x5 reverse pyramid @ 275/265/245 (struggled with 2nd set-losing form so dropped 20 for 3rd)
5x5 reverse pyramid @ 270/260/250/245/245
3x5 reverse pyramid @ 275/265/255
5x5 sets across @ 250
5x5 sets across @ 255
and so on and so forth

The weights are to the best of my knowledge, it may be slightly off here and there but by no more than 5 lbs since I don't keep a log. I do know I've worked up to my most recent set of 5x5 reverse pyramid @ 285/275/265/255/245

I also do ascending sets to warm up which isn't included in the 5x5 or 3x5.

 

[Pantlegz]

I think I've decided on The Juggernaut Training System but I might wait until after the tournament at the end of Feb before I make any changes, we'll see how madcow goes the next month and where I am with my weight as time goes on, I don't want to gain anything over the next few weeks.

@tedrodai - I was thinking about sarcoplasmic hypertrophy but apparently that's not going to do what I though it might help with so it's kind of moot now.