Roofing Company Sues Over 1 Star Review

[Pipeline 1010]

Dumb move on the roofer's part. This lawsuit's bad PR is going to hurt them far more than some silly review about the receptionist.

On the other hand they have a lot of free attention. And a lot of people who hate the idea of badmouthing small business will probably patronize this business. I am not taking a position on whether the lawsuit is right or wrong; I'm just saying this might not actually be a universally bad thing for this business.

Edit: mixed up all my logics.

 

[sactoking]

I mean, if I'm walking by a café with outdoor dining and I see a waiter blow a snot rocket into someone's chipped beef I'm going to do many things including leaving a negative review despite the fact that I wasn't a party to the transaction.

 

[woolfe9998]

Did they make any false statements in their reviews? If not then my answer to "what right to they get to review his performance" is that they're freaking Americans and they can say whatever they durned well please in any venue that will have them.

Yes, and I would add that it’s the tenant who bears the brunt of delays in project completion, not the landlord. Years back when we rented a house, our washer broke. Lanlord calls his home warranty company who puts him in touch with a local appliance repair company. They said they would be out in three days but no showed. We complained to the landlord who complained to them. Long and short of it was it took 29 days for them to come out and fix it.

So who there had the real grievance? Was it the landlord who was mildly annoyed because he had to read my increasingly irate emails? Or was it me who once a week had to haul 4 heavy laundry bags to the laundromat, pay about $20, and sit for two hours waiting? First world problem,I know, but 29 days is not reasonable and we as the tenants were the ones affected by it. So naturally, we were the ones who one starred on Yelp, which they justly deserved.

While there may be other facts in the case under discussion which could support a defamation claim, the mere fact that the landlord hired the company is a terrible argument. Anyone directly affected by the company’s incompetence has a right to complain and more often than not that is the tenant .

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

snot rocket

chipped beef

There's a difference?

 

[Greenman]

Did they make any false statements in their reviews? If not then my answer to "what right to they get to review his performance" is that they're freaking Americans and they can say whatever they durned well please in any venue that will have them.

They can indeed say whatever they want, and they can also suffer the consequences of those words.
The first amendment doesn't allow defamation. Yes, you can make defamatory statements about anyone you want, but you better be able to back them up in court or you'll pay the price.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

If you call a company to ask them about a service and they laugh at you on the phone and refuse to address your concerns, is it 'defamation' to post a review stating they laughed at you on the phone and refused to address your concerns?

 

[ewdotson]

They can indeed say whatever they want, and they can also suffer the consequences of those words.
The first amendment doesn't allow defamation. Yes, you can make defamatory statements about anyone you want, but you better be able to back them up in court or you'll pay the price.

Indeed it doesn't allow defamation. Which is why I added the caveat about false statements. The fact that people bring spurious lawsuits doesn't have anything to do with whether or not their not being the landlord somehow impacts their right to leave reviews.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'd rephrase that bolded sentence. It may be the first time YOU'VE heard of this type of lawsuit, but it certainly isn't the first time this has come up.

Can you get sued over a negative Yelp review? Here's what you need to know

Lawsuits from businesses suing consumers over negative online reviews have been popping up across the country, with defendants potentially racking up legal fees worth five figures. Attorneys weigh in on what you need to know before posting a negative review.

www.cnbc.com

In July (2019), a Yelp user in Florida named Tom Lloyd told “CBS This Morning” that he was left with more than $25,000 in legal bills after a veterinary practice sued him for defamation over a negative Yelp review. In the review, Lloyd recounted how his dog died at the animal hospital waiting for a surgeon who never showed up.

And in 2015, a Colorado couple reportedly racked up $65,000 in legal fees (including a $15,000 settlement payment) fighting a defamation lawsuit brought by a flooring company the couple negatively reviewed on Yelp.

“Most Americans don’t realize they can be sued for writing an online review,” says Evan Mascagni, an attorney who currently serves as Policy Director at the Public Participation Project, a nonprofit group that advocates for First Amendment rights.

A Michigan company is suing a woman for $25,000 after she left them a bad Yelp review

An air conditioning company has accused a woman of publishing "false and defamatory statements" that cost the business at least six customers per day.

www.insider.com

An air conditioning company in Michigan is suing a local woman for $25,000 in damages after she left a bad Yelp review that the company says is defamatory.

Court records show that North Wind Heating & Air Conditioning filed its lawsuit against its former customer, Lisa Agostino, in July, just days after she posted the Yelp review. A hearing on the matter is scheduled for November 12 (2019.)

Man Sued, Has Properties Seized After Leaving Negative Company Review

The company sued the man for up to $1 million in damages after he wrote negative reviews on social media and in blog posts.

www.newsweek.com

And those were just a very, very few of the first hits on a Google search. You oughta try it out. Might surprise you what's actually out there. Expand your mind and horizons. Because while you sure act like you know a lot of shit, you end up showing you know shit about a lot of stuff, this included.

Fair enough, I stand corrected on the minor point of how often this occurs. Oh, and I want to thank you for pointing out the existence of this thing called”Google” (did I spell that right?). And to think, all these years I’ve been straining to psychically intuit the URL’s for the thousands of links in my posts? I owe you a huge debt of gratitude for pointing out that all along I could have used this simple tool called “Google.”

Now, in all seriusness, that first case you cite only supports my main argument which you ignored. The plaintiff there settled for less than they had undoubtedly paid their attorney ,a disastrous result. You don’t settle for a net loss unless you and your attorney are convinced that your prospects at trial are dim. While the defendant rationally chose to settle for less than it would have cost them to pay an attorney to win the case at trial.

While it isn’t impossible to prove damages in that sort of case, it is exceedingly difficult as you need to show an impeccably timed drop in revenues with no other likely explanation. It’s not like you can line up a bunch of witnesses to say they didn’t hire you because of that one review. You’ll never find them.

So whether it has been tried one time or ten, it’s still generally a bad basis for a lawsuit.

Disclaimer: I have not read your other links yet but it is unlikely anything in them would alter my opinion.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

While it isn’t impossible to prove damages in that sort of case, it is exceedingly difficult as you need to show an impeccably timed drop in revenues with no other likely explanation.

That doesn't (shouldn't) matter as long as the review is truthful and accurate as far as the reviewer recalls.

Company does a bad thing.
Affected customer posts accurate review.
Company loses business as a result of that review.

Tough noogies.

One thing I'm curious about is that there are NO reviews, positive or negative on this roofer's BBB profile.

 

[Thump553]

In typical Yelp fashion, all the one star reviews are now grayed out. Actually that's an improvement in Yelp's practices. When Yelp was just starting out I had a horrible experience and left a one star review succulently explaining what happened. There were three or four similar reviews from other people on yelp. I checked back a few months later and all the one star reviews were gone. I emailed yelp about it and got no response. In my opinion yelp is useless and I wouldn't rely on them for anything more than a lunch place review.

 

[interchange]

That's why you have to preface everything "In my opinion"

In my opinion, @GoPackGo raped me.

See, that isn't going to protect you from things which are concretely based in fact. I think it has some merit to use those words, but don't imagine it gives you carte blanche to say anything you want without possible liability.

 

[Zorba]

If someone goes to a restaurant and there is a 75 minute wait - someone says fuck that, leaves, and then leaves a negative review saying they were rude and had a ridiculous wait... is that justified? You can say "Oh it will blend in with all the good ones" but it's still bringing down their overall average.

Keep in mind, the majority of people look at average ratings - not reading specifics.


Also understand - I'm not in favor of suing for freedom of speech. At all. Just playing a little devil's advocate. I think there DOES need to be some differentiate on sites - similar to Amazon - where people can leave a BUNCH of negative reviews on a political-based book.... without even reading it. It's very similar to restaurants that you haven't eaten at, services you haven't tried and only got a quote from, etc....

All my favorite restaurants are rated in the 3s it seems. A ton of 5 star reviews are just as bullshit as the 1 stars. But consumers don't get to sue those that said "Great service 5 stars" when they actually got a shitty installation.

 

[Zorba]

As a small business owner you have no idea how frustrating internet reviews can be. There is no fucking recourse on the business owner side except for leaving a reply that most people don't read. They just see the star rating and move on.

I ignore most 1 star reviews, until I see the management reply, which almost always convinces me I don't want to do business with them. Instead of apologizing, most small businesses are just defensive assholes.

 

[Zorba]

A bad review from two people who didn't hire the roofer, didn't establish the scope of work or time frame with him, didn't have a contract, and didn't pay the bill. By what right do they get to review his performance? Their gripe is with their landlord.

We used to have a roofing company that would come around door to door. They were unlicensed in the state of Oklahoma. They'd scare people about the fact our shingles are "obsolete" (i.e. not made any more) then would do shitty installation. They lied about their BBB rating. I told them to fuck off at least 10 times, asked for their state license number and was given their Vendor ID number with GAC.

I finally left them a 1 star review and reported them for doing business without a license and they finally fucked off. Should I not have left a review to warn others just because I had not personally used them and only dealt with? (I did not rate their installations, although 6 years later most of them have had to be replaced while those with our original roofs are still fine).

 

[Stokely]

Ironically, we may be leaving a bad review (or taking action) against the company that just did our roof. Or at least my wife might

We just put pavers in, and unfortunately the timing for both companies (neither of which gave us a heads-up on when it would happen btw) meant that the pavers went in THE DAY BEFORE the roof work started. The freaking roofers dripped oil and tar all over the new pavers. They had a bunch of tarps but didn't put them down, I realized when I saw the oil/tar dropping down. Fucking idiots. I have a ton of respect for people that can do work like that in Florida in the summer--but how can you also show such a complete lack of intelligence (or they just didn't give a shit?)

They've tried to clean it but it's iffy. I could live with it, don't really want to, but the wife is mad (and I'm not getting in the way of that train! )

 

[amenx]

Isnt there a right of reply so the business can respond to each review if necessary? No matter how good a business is there are always be negative reviews for whatever reason. A good business should not worry because the positive reviews drown out the negative ones.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Isnt there a right of reply so the business can respond to each review if necessary? No matter how good a business is there are always be negative reviews for whatever reason. A good business should not worry because the positive reviews drown out the negative ones.

Yeah, the response is the lawsuit.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I watch this lawyer because he always does reviews on legal cases (current and past) all the time. He just released a video on this subject today.

Apparently the people leaving the reviews left more than 1 - which is definitely notable.

 

[weblooker2021]

This company needs to find a better lawyer, especially the one that understand 1st amendment.

 

[Thump553]

This company needs to find a better lawyer, especially the one that understand 1st amendment.

I'm sure that lawyer got a very healthy retainer up front. The purpose of this lawsuit is retribution and intimidation. The company owner's don't have a snowball's chance in hell of actually winning it-their goal is to cost the other side money.

 

[desy]

The problem with the US is its an industrialized country that doesn't have loser pays legislation.
Stops dead all the frivolous claims if you have to foot the bill,

Tort reform - Wikipedia
In Commonwealth countries as well as U.S. states including Texas, Georgia, and California, the losing party must pay for the court costs of the winning party.[3]

 

[Stokely]

Sure enough, suing people poorer than you is tried and true. Most can't or won't be willing to go the distance. Just ask Trump, the dude has launched what, 3500 lawsuits? It's an intimidation bullying technique.

 

[nickqt]

The problem with the US is its an industrialized country that doesn't have loser pays legislation.
Stops dead all the frivolous claims if you have to foot the bill,

Tort reform - Wikipedia
In Commonwealth countries as well as U.S. states including Texas, Georgia, and California, the losing party must pay for the court costs of the winning party.[3]

I'm probably wasting my time saying this to the faithful, but just because you filed a claim and lost doesn't mean it was frivolous.

 

[pmv]

I'm probably wasting my time saying this to the faithful, but just because you filed a claim and lost doesn't mean it was frivolous.

Yeah, but frivolous law-suits, especially libel, are a weapon of the wealthy who want to avoid anyone saying anything about them. If you have a lot of resources and it's known you issue writs at the drop of a hat people will decide it's not worth the hassle of writing anything about you.
*cough* Captain Bob *cough*

 

[Vic]

As a small business owner you have no idea how frustrating internet reviews can be. There is no fucking recourse on the business owner side except for leaving a reply that most people don't read. They just see the star rating and move on.

So are you saying it's just luck that some businesses have higher ratings than others?