Roofing Company Sues Over 1 Star Review

[MrSquished]

You were never a business owner. Quit lying to yourself or anyone else lol.

Oh look. It's the guy who has so much cognitive dissonance on almost any topic telling me what business that I opened with a good friend of mine never existed. What a fucking loser. I'd post the yelp page but people like you that are so fucked in the head scare me with the amount of psychosis you have to have in order to think the way you think about shit. I don't need sociopaths knowing my business.

 

[MrSquished]

How long ago did you own this business? 2002, 2010, 2016, ect?

about 11 years ago. Yelp was everything then.

 

[Moonbeam]

Good

That’s it? Just good? What if the roofer is right and the reviewers get fucked over by this, or what if the customers are right and the lawsuit bites the company in the ass. Oh, OK. Good!

 

[Vic]

The issue here is the reviewers were not the customers. Their landlord was the customer. It's ok to read past the headlines.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

If someone goes to a restaurant and there is a 75 minute wait - someone says fuck that, leaves, and then leaves a negative review saying they were rude and had a ridiculous wait... is that justified?

Yes.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Why? Well, the people being sued are not the owners of the property but are in fact just tenants who live there.

As a result, they as tenants had no contractual business relationship with the roofing company, and thus had no expectation of receipt of any kind of services from them ...

The issue here is the reviewers were not the customers. Their landlord was the customer. It's ok to read past the headlines.

Irrelevant. They had direct interaction with the company and had an expectation of receiving services regardless of who was paying.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

And we still haven't addressed the question about a law having been passed prohibiting companies from doing this. I can't remember if it was Federal law, a court ruling or just an agency policy.

 

[MrSquished]

If I was a tenant and I complained to my landlord about a problem, and they had a contractor come out and do stuff on my watch. The landlord paid and had the contract, but I was the one dealing with them on the face to face and with the repercussions of their work, probably would have a case as to being the party affected by their shoddy shit.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

What kind of reviews does the law protect?

The law protects a broad variety of honest consumer assessments, including online reviews, social media posts, uploaded photos, videos, etc. And it doesn’t just cover product reviews. It also applies to consumer evaluations of a company’s customer service.
What does the Consumer Review Fairness Act prohibit?

In summary, the Act makes it illegal for a company to use a contract provision that:

1. bars or restricts the ability of a person who is a party to that contract to review a company’s products, services, or conduct;
2. imposes a penalty or fee against someone who gives a review; or
3. requires people to give up their intellectual property rights in the content of their reviews.

Consumer Review Fairness Act: What Businesses Need to Know

The Consumer Review Fairness Act (CRFA) protects people’s ability to share their honest opinions about a business’s products, services, or conduct, in any forum, including social media. Is your company complying? Contracts that prohibit honest reviews, or threaten legal action over them, harm...

www.ftc.gov

I don't see anything saying you have to be the one paying.

 

[woolfe9998]

Nothing in theory says a company cannot sue for defamation over a bad online review. But bear in mind a couple things. First, they cannot sue over opinions, no matter how unreasonable they may be. Only statements of pure fact which are provably false.

Second, and most importantly for purposes of this case, it is necessary to prove quantifiable financial loss. A company cannot get general damages for pain suffering and emotional distress like an individual can.

So what amount of financial loss do we imagine a company can prove was caused by a single bad online review? My guess is about zero, give or take zero. So a jury could hold defendants liable for defamation, then award $1 in nominal damages.

I would think that the negative publicity over suing outweighs any financial harm they can prove. And that is likely the reason this is the first we’ve heard of this kind of lawsuit. Because it’s a stupid idea.

 

[Meghan54]

Nothing in theory says a company cannot sue for defamation over a bad online review. But bear in mind a couple things. First, they cannot sue over opinions, no matter how unreasonable they may be. Only statements of pure fact which are provably false.

Second, and most importantly for purposes of this case, it is necessary to prove quantifiable financial loss. A company cannot get general damages for pain suffering and emotional distress like an individual can.

So what amount of financial loss do we imagine a company can prove was caused by a single bad online review? My guess is about zero, give or take zero. So a jury could hold defendants liable for defamation, then award $1 in nominal damages.

I would think that the negative publicity over suing outweighs any financial harm they can prove. And that is likely the reason this is the first we’ve heard of this kind of lawsuit. Because it’s a stupid idea.

I'd rephrase that bolded sentence. It may be the first time YOU'VE heard of this type of lawsuit, but it certainly isn't the first time this has come up.

Can you get sued over a negative Yelp review? Here's what you need to know

Lawsuits from businesses suing consumers over negative online reviews have been popping up across the country, with defendants potentially racking up legal fees worth five figures. Attorneys weigh in on what you need to know before posting a negative review.

www.cnbc.com

In July (2019), a Yelp user in Florida named Tom Lloyd told “CBS This Morning” that he was left with more than $25,000 in legal bills after a veterinary practice sued him for defamation over a negative Yelp review. In the review, Lloyd recounted how his dog died at the animal hospital waiting for a surgeon who never showed up.

And in 2015, a Colorado couple reportedly racked up $65,000 in legal fees (including a $15,000 settlement payment) fighting a defamation lawsuit brought by a flooring company the couple negatively reviewed on Yelp.

“Most Americans don’t realize they can be sued for writing an online review,” says Evan Mascagni, an attorney who currently serves as Policy Director at the Public Participation Project, a nonprofit group that advocates for First Amendment rights.

A Michigan company is suing a woman for $25,000 after she left them a bad Yelp review

An air conditioning company has accused a woman of publishing "false and defamatory statements" that cost the business at least six customers per day.

www.insider.com

An air conditioning company in Michigan is suing a local woman for $25,000 in damages after she left a bad Yelp review that the company says is defamatory.

Court records show that North Wind Heating & Air Conditioning filed its lawsuit against its former customer, Lisa Agostino, in July, just days after she posted the Yelp review. A hearing on the matter is scheduled for November 12 (2019.)

Man Sued, Has Properties Seized After Leaving Negative Company Review

The company sued the man for up to $1 million in damages after he wrote negative reviews on social media and in blog posts.

www.newsweek.com

And those were just a very, very few of the first hits on a Google search. You oughta try it out. Might surprise you what's actually out there. Expand your mind and horizons. Because while you sure act like you know a lot of shit, you end up showing you know shit about a lot of stuff, this included.

 

[Bitek]

Yes.

No, but people still do it.


Those are the useless 1* reviews that you have to read to judge if the overall low score rating is from a true systemic problem, or just because they are cursed with a customer base full of dumbasses that leave bad reviews for petty and unreasonable bullshit.

 

[TheELF]

The issue here is the reviewers were not the customers. Their landlord was the customer. It's ok to read past the headlines.

It would also be ok for a company to just tell them when/how they would finish the job, or if that is somehow confidential for some weird reason the firm could ask the landlord if it would be ok for them to tell the tenants.

Don't laugh at people calling you on the phone at least, tell them that the company will have to clear that with the landlord and will come back to you.

What kind of reviews does the law protect?

The law protects a broad variety of honest consumer assessments, including online reviews, social media posts, uploaded photos, videos, etc. And it doesn’t just cover product reviews. It also applies to consumer evaluations of a company’s customer service.
What does the Consumer Review Fairness Act prohibit?

In summary, the Act makes it illegal for a company to use a contract provision that:

1. bars or restricts the ability of a person who is a party to that contract to review a company’s products, services, or conduct;
2. imposes a penalty or fee against someone who gives a review; or
3. requires people to give up their intellectual property rights in the content of their reviews.

Consumer Review Fairness Act: What Businesses Need to Know

The Consumer Review Fairness Act (CRFA) protects people’s ability to share their honest opinions about a business’s products, services, or conduct, in any forum, including social media. Is your company complying? Contracts that prohibit honest reviews, or threaten legal action over them, harm...

www.ftc.gov

I don't see anything saying you have to be the one paying.

Depends on how somebody interprets the term consumer. If this case falls under leasing then, sure.
Basically the couple pays the landlord but they are paying the landlord also for the roof and for its roofing.

Consumer Protection Law Center

Overview of the laws that protect the rights of consumers, how they can be enforced, and who is responsible for enforcing them.

www.justia.com

What is a Consumer?
The definitions of a “consumer” under state and federal law generally have several key elements in common. A consumer is an individual (meaning someone who is not a business or other organization) who purchases or leases goods and services for personal or household use. Many laws draw a distinction between transactions intended for personal or household use and those intended for business use. Consumer law protects personal and household purchases, leases, and other transactions.

 

[pmv]

Good job they got rid of downvoting posts on this forum, I guess.

 

[pmv]

As a small business owner you have no idea how frustrating internet reviews can be. There is no fucking recourse on the business owner side except for leaving a reply that most people don't read. They just see the star rating and move on.

I can sympathise with that. In these times I wouldn't really want to be a business-owner, or any other kind of profession that depended on 'crowd sourced' ratings for performance evaluation.

Personally I don't pay much attention to 'star rating' reviews on Amazon, for example, because the system is so obviously frquently 'gamed', one way or the other. And so many such 'reviews' are utterly uninformative, just saying things like "rubbish or "great". Reviews are only worth looking at for specific factual issues (like 'are the knobs on this fan controller small enough to let my computer case door close?')

 

[Pohemi]

You were never a business owner. Quit lying to yourself or anyone else lol.

This is just...wow. Incredibly stupid, even for you which says a lot. It's obviously a weak troll attempt, but you still come off as a piece of shit, like always.

1) How would you know?
2) You lie and misrepresent (and it's proven) more than any other poster here
3) You possess some of the strongest psychological projection I've ever seen

Stop wasting my oxygen, clown.

 

[cytg111]

Who knows about these things… thats why you have averages and can see the actual distribution of stars… When we see overwhelming amount of 4 and 5 stars and some 1’s … we all know there is a certain quota of some1’s in the population plus every business will have a bad day too.
So I dont get the fuss.

 

[interchange]

I'd rephrase that bolded sentence. It may be the first time YOU'VE heard of this type of lawsuit, but it certainly isn't the first time this has come up.

Can you get sued over a negative Yelp review? Here's what you need to know

Lawsuits from businesses suing consumers over negative online reviews have been popping up across the country, with defendants potentially racking up legal fees worth five figures. Attorneys weigh in on what you need to know before posting a negative review.

www.cnbc.com

In July (2019), a Yelp user in Florida named Tom Lloyd told “CBS This Morning” that he was left with more than $25,000 in legal bills after a veterinary practice sued him for defamation over a negative Yelp review. In the review, Lloyd recounted how his dog died at the animal hospital waiting for a surgeon who never showed up.

And in 2015, a Colorado couple reportedly racked up $65,000 in legal fees (including a $15,000 settlement payment) fighting a defamation lawsuit brought by a flooring company the couple negatively reviewed on Yelp.

“Most Americans don’t realize they can be sued for writing an online review,” says Evan Mascagni, an attorney who currently serves as Policy Director at the Public Participation Project, a nonprofit group that advocates for First Amendment rights.

A Michigan company is suing a woman for $25,000 after she left them a bad Yelp review

An air conditioning company has accused a woman of publishing "false and defamatory statements" that cost the business at least six customers per day.

www.insider.com

An air conditioning company in Michigan is suing a local woman for $25,000 in damages after she left a bad Yelp review that the company says is defamatory.

Court records show that North Wind Heating & Air Conditioning filed its lawsuit against its former customer, Lisa Agostino, in July, just days after she posted the Yelp review. A hearing on the matter is scheduled for November 12 (2019.)

Man Sued, Has Properties Seized After Leaving Negative Company Review

The company sued the man for up to $1 million in damages after he wrote negative reviews on social media and in blog posts.

www.newsweek.com

And those were just a very, very few of the first hits on a Google search. You oughta try it out. Might surprise you what's actually out there. Expand your mind and horizons. Because while you sure act like you know a lot of shit, you end up showing you know shit about a lot of stuff, this included.

The principle difficulty here is a fault in the legal system wherein someone can sue even if they have a case they'll never win, thus the other party has to incur the cost of defending themselves. This of course can be grossly abused, and we've discussed anti-SLAPP legislation, but the average customer reviewing a company online is probably going to need representation with the best case being the state has anti-SLAPP laws which pay your legal fees. But I don't know how many of these examples have enough basis to bring a case where the kernel of the defamation involves an actual fact of some sort in dispute to get past any anti-SLAPP motions but have very little chance of proving defamation or demonstrating significant damages. So you might have little risk of actually losing in court or being responsible for the kind of damages sought, but that doesn't mean it won't seriously damage your wallet. Still, it seems like a pretty rare event, largely because the business gets no tangible benefit from suing in the first place, probably even so if they have a real case. They have the legal costs as well, and it's going to be pretty exceptional to show tangible and significant monetary loss from the review anyway. And, as mentioned, it is likely just bad PR for the company. So these cases unless well merited are probably pursued by assholes motivated by spite.

For the last one, first of all it's in Ireland but reading the story it seems that defamation works pretty much the same. The guy says he didn't get a notice of the court date so didn't show and the judge awarded a default judgment of $60k (seeking $1M) and he also says he wasn't aware of the judgment causing the interest to balloon into the hundreds of thousands before his properties were seized. Basically I think he's full of shit, and he lost because he wished it all went away instead of actually responding.

For all we know, though, there are plenty of people who have a bad experience and embellish with falsehoods their online reviews. And that is actually defamation. Just stick to basic provable facts and things which are clearly a matter of opinion.

 

[GoPackGo]

That's why you have to preface everything "In my opinion"

 

[ewdotson]

Man, I sure hope none of the folks saying it's a good thing this business is trying to ruin someone over a bad review don't ever try to claim that people getting banned from social media for violating the TOS is some sort of offense against the principles of free speech.

 

[WelshBloke]

This is just...wow. Incredibly stupid, even for you which says a lot. It's obviously a weak troll attempt, but you still come off as a piece of shit, like always.

1) How would you know?
2) You lie and misrepresent (and it's proven) more than any other poster here
3) You possess some of the strongest psychological projection I've ever seen

Stop wasting my oxygen, clown.

It probably means there's a better than evens bet that he's been bullshitting about what job he has.

 

[Greenman]

Man, I sure hope none of the folks saying it's a good thing this business is trying to ruin someone over a bad review don't ever try to claim that people getting banned from social media for violating the TOS is some sort of offense against the principles of free speech.

A bad review from two people who didn't hire the roofer, didn't establish the scope of work or time frame with him, didn't have a contract, and didn't pay the bill. By what right do they get to review his performance? Their gripe is with their landlord.

 

[hal2kilo]

I can sympathise with that. In these times I wouldn't really want to be a business-owner, or any other kind of profession that depended on 'crowd sourced' ratings for performance evaluation.

Personally I don't pay much attention to 'star rating' reviews on Amazon, for example, because the system is so obviously frquently 'gamed', one way or the other. And so many such 'reviews' are utterly uninformative, just saying things like "rubbish or "great". Reviews are only worth looking at for specific factual issues (like 'are the knobs on this fan controller small enough to let my computer case door close?')

They beg you for reviews, so I put in my best effort....ha, ha, ha.

 

[ewdotson]

A bad review from two people who didn't hire the roofer, didn't establish the scope of work or time frame with him, didn't have a contract, and didn't pay the bill. By what right do they get to review his performance? Their gripe is with their landlord.

Did they make any false statements in their reviews? If not then my answer to "what right to they get to review his performance" is that they're freaking Americans and they can say whatever they durned well please in any venue that will have them.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

By what right do they get to review his performance?

They are truthfully relating their experience with the company.