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Ron Pauls Revolution

nextJin

nextJin

Golden Member
The general concenus here on these forums is very much nothing but hatred towards Paul, both from the neo-conservatives and the left. However something that I feel is being purposefully ignored or simply shrugged off are several points worth discussing.

1) libertarian-republicans have taken over possibly hundreds of small county/district level GOP parties.
2) libertarian-republicans have taken over several state level GOP parties
3) Paul has possibly several hundred shadow delegates who will decline to vote during the first round in Tampa.
4) Paul has won or will win a plurality of delegates in 5 states to be on the ballot
5) Paul has continously proved that he will net more delegates than what he is thought to have. For all of the states that have a delegation of delegates already selected and ready for Tampa, Paul has way more than being reported. This trend will likely continue.
6) The GOP is breaking its own rule by collaborating with Gov Romney during a Primary giving him funds and assistance. This is rule 11.
7) The RNC has sent an open letter to the Nevada state GOP telling them that if Paul takes over the delegate process they might as well not even come to Tampa. The state GOP rejected it. Link

Like it or not, this uprising within the GOP is happening and it likely will not stop at the RNC in Tampa. Really, it has nothing to do with Paul. The vast majority of the folks involved with these events are highly knowledgeable and very well informed on how government actually works. These are not stupid kids smoking pot or college kids wanting to rebel. These are the original tea partiers from 2007-early 2008 who abandoned the teaparty after Palin and MSM took it over.

Paul has said and will continue to say that winning the Presidency would be a by product of this movement. I personally think it would be a miracle if he somehow won the nomination in Tampa, however I am not deaf or blind to what is happening. The GOP is going through a transformational process. It happens with every political party every so often and this is really no different.

You can keep saying whatever you want about Paul, this is not a nonissue. Everyone is taking notice now and the MSM is going to be playing catch up trying to explain why and how this is happening. If you believe Paul only has 60-80 delegates you need to read up on who has what. If you do not believe Paul supporters are literally taking over segments of the GOP you need to read up on who did what.

My question to the neo-conservatives here, how are you going to deal with the huge amount of paleo-conservatives overwhelming the party and throwing you out? It's an honest question.

The left shouldn't really care because either way it's a stark contrast to their political beliefs which does not change.

This is not about Paul getting the nomination, it's more about how the paleo-conservatives/libertarian republicans are effectively trying to take over the party from the ground up. As I said I seriously doubt he gets the nomination. It is just extremely interesting how this is playing out within the party.
 
Plenty of people are trying to take over either party. Let me know when it amounts to something substantial like the nomination of a libertarian as the Republican candidate for president (or even a significant number of seats in the house/senate). Until then, the puppetmasters are still running the show. All of this smoke and mirrors crap that Paul represents a silent majority is rubbish until these ninjas magically appear and vote for him. And I say this as someone who would happily vote for him over either of the two chuckleheads currently being proffered.
 
Yes, Ron Paul's influence looks to be significant when you only focus on people that are influenced by Ron Paul. This should not be surprising to anyone 😉

The problem with the Ron Paul revolution is that it's not exactly sweeping through the ranks of people who didn't already support Ron Paul. Pretending things are otherwise is part of the reason Ron Paul and his supporters don't exactly have the best reputation, even in a field like politics where the bar is set pretty low. Failing to gain significant support, claiming you did, and then yelling at everyone who disagrees is a poor strategy no matter what your core beliefs are.

Any small influence the more libertarian parts of the right are having right now is probably more a byproduct of a population that's just sick of the way things are going. The fact that the Tea Party was so quickly taken over by the mainstream Republicans should be a pretty good indication that the bulk of the Republican party is more interested in the IDEA of libertarianism than the reality of it (otherwise the take-over wouldn't have worked).
 
The left should care because in important ways, the Paul ideology is worse than even other Republicans, and another threat to society to 'nip in the bud'.

The Paul ideology is really in theory a rejection of democracy - valuing nothing but weatlh, the 'freedom' and 'liberty' claims propaganda to sell it; and in practice, it's a reversal of the taking of power by 'the people' and restoring the rule of the wealthy, a return to plutocracy, all their promises of protections for the 99% lies.
 
Paul's primary power base are white separatists and supremacists. Those groups have already taken over much of the Republican party.
 
If in fact the libertarians are increasing their significance on the political right in this country as the OP suggests, the outcome will not be a "takeover" of the GOP by libertarians. Rather, it will be a fracturing of the political right into libertarians, hawkish neo-cons, and social conservatives. Possibly a split or new political party. There is and will be some overlap among hawks and social conservatives, but libertarians do not mix well with either group. Bottom line is that Christian conservatives are the GOP party base and they are generally hawkish and favor government intrusion into matters of individual privacy. Furthermore, this is not a group that easily abandons these core beliefs as they are for the most part rooted in religion.

So libertarians will either have to betray their ideology to accommodate them, or else they will have to find a different base, one large enough to make them a viable third alternative.
 
SilthDraeth said:
True. Though I still vote for Paul, but as he said, since it isn't close enough, the best most of us can do is not vote if we don't like the system.
Click to expand...

Write letters, donate to the causes you support.

Now, I think the answer is vote for progressives, but not all agree, so that's a general tip.
 
Great post OP. You can tell he's got some really good ideas when statists like Craig234 think he's even worse than Republicans.
 
My observation is different. I see the Republican Party becoming more socially conservative than fiscally conservative, and although Ron Paul is socially conservative, generally speaking the social conservatives are content to be ever so slightly more fiscally conservative than the Dems when in power and just obstructionist when out of power. Don't get me wrong, I like obstructionist. I just don't see how that translates into any Ron Paul Revolution other than the one that will occur in his grave if we actually ever elect a libertarian candidate.

Ron Paul is socially conservative, fiscally and regulatorily libertarian, isolationist on foreign policy and open borders on illegal immigration. I see no great movement among the Republicans on anything but the first, and even there the most obstructionist candidate just got trounced.
 
Craig234 said:
Write letters, donate to the causes you support.

Now, I think the answer is vote for progressives, but not all agree, so that's a general tip.
Click to expand...

Yeah, voting progressive is great. We end up with corporatist frauds like Obama, Ried, and Pelosi.

That's a fantastic plan.

I'd rather have anarchy.
 
drebo said:
Yeah, voting progressive is great. We end up with corporatist frauds like Obama, Ried, and Pelosi.

That's a fantastic plan.

I'd rather have anarchy.
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Ironically enough, two of those are not 'progressives'. Pelosi's House was 'the best in decades', but nearly all of what it passed did not get past the Senate and Obama.

Obama is a 'corporatist', hence my not supporting him in the primary - just over McCain.

Now, Obama has strains of progressive positions occassionally, mainly in speeches.

And there's some evidence he's improving a bit, but he's not a progressive.
 
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I can't help but eye roll when Ron Paul supports complain about conspiracies as they work to twist the party rules to subvert democracy.
 
loki8481 said:
I can't help but eye roll when Ron Paul supports complain about conspiracies as they work to twist the party rules to subvert democracy.
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Funny thing is, both are true. Paul is subverting democracy, and there are conspiracies against him by Mitt Romney's campaign.
 
Ron Paul would trade government tyranny for private tyranny. Least I can vote on Govt.

If you want a world of Ron Paul move to Mexico. It's close. 20 families control everything. 5% serve and protect them (middle class) and rest has zero opportunity.
 
Zebo said:
Ron Paul would trade government tyranny for private tyranny. Least I can vote on Govt.
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That one sentence is the most important perhaps about Libertarians.

Well said, except that we don't really have 'government tyranny' like we would private.
 
Zebo said:
Ron Paul would trade government tyranny for private tyranny. Least I can vote on Govt.

If you want a world of Ron Paul move to Mexico. It's close. 20 families control everything. 5% serve and protect them (middle class) and rest has zero opportunity.
Click to expand...
With the rampant corporate fraud and cronyism in the government now, it's more like private tyranny through government tyranny.

While I don't resonate completely with the free market, hands off approach of libertarianism, at least Ron Paul seems promising to end a lot of the corporate fraud/cronyism that's in the government.
 
All I meant is yeah taxes suck and so do many things govt imposes on me however that's nothing in comparison to what it would be like under economic libertarianism. I actually agree with them on social issues.
 
astroidea said:
With the rampant corporate fraud and cronyism in the government now, it's more like private tyranny through government tyranny.

While I don't resonate completely with the free market, hands off approach of libertarianism, at least Ron Paul seems promising to end a lot of the corporate fraud/cronyism that's in the government.
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People need to get their butts informed and throw the bumbs out. At least we have choice.
 
To clarify my comment on Obama as corporatist who's improving, here's a book discussing just that.

http://www.amazon.com/Showdown-Insid...KWXXSG62E263F6

It explains the history of Obama, including the challenges of the incredibly hostile Republican Congress.

It reviews things from tradeoffs Obama made, to things he says he's learned.

It's not that Progressives view him as a progressive now - but it's a more complicated issue than just saying 'he's a corporatist'.

There is some promise for Obama - and no comparison to the incredibly bad Romney.
 
Excellent post by the OP who summed it all up better than I ever could. I love how he mentioned neocons and said paleocons are taking over. I'm not strictly a paleocon, but I do have sympathies towards them and I hold some paleocon views myself... that's why I call myself a conservative anarcho-confederalist.

If Dr. Paul doesn't win, then at least Craig will have the democracy he loves so much.
 
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