Legend, you don't know shit about economics. You just peddle Keynesian nonsense like this stupid brainwashed bitch all day:
http://www.europac.net/Schiff-SquawkBox-6-13-06_lg.asp
Legend, you don't know shit about economics. You just peddle Keynesian nonsense like this stupid brainwashed bitch all day:
http://www.europac.net/Schiff-SquawkBox-6-13-06_lg.asp
My right asscheeck has more economics knowledge than you're whole body and my left one has twice as much. You prattle on about shit that's been disproven and removed for decades yet yearn for the return of your pathetic theories and stodgy economics from Austria.
What's your background? What do you do? What's your education? I'd really love to know, because I've trounced your ass to hell and back on here, yet you claim I know nothing.
Everybody here, except for your fellow RPBs (which make up about 5% of the country,the social and intellectual rejects), know you're precious RP and your silly following is worth less than the 1's and 0's they are transmitted on.
If your theories and "knowledge" were so good, then they'd be far more popular. Yet, they aren't. Why?
Ohhh, that's right, it's a conspiracy. I forgot.
And libertopian "free market" ones are so great. Even Adam Smith acknowledged that unrestrained capitalism is a bad idea.
My god, that's got to hurt your walking stride.
That said, I half agree with you and half disagree. Noisy Ron Paul supporters DO get a lot of attention, and it does seem like there are a lot of people who are a bit too fanatical about it all. I also think that going back to the gold standard is a bit impractical(not that he has advocated doing that RIGHT AWAY. I think he wanted to introduce competing currencies?)
If they'd focus on fiscal responsibility and keeping government intervention to a more sane level, I think there would be more success. Instead, people hear about getting rid of the fed, going on the gold standard, and abolishing the IRS. (oh yea, and the NAU)
That's a stupid automatic correlation for anything and you know it. If herd momentum itself were a gauge for how correct something was, slavery would still exist and Britney Spears would be one of the greatest musical artists of our time.
I don't know, why were entire cultures of people in Asia at one time so supportive of communism, a system which essentially has no rights or private ownership of anything? Yeah, pick me, pick me!
It's not a conspiracy to assert that people in positions of power and influence are in some way pursuant to their own interests and sometimes corruptible and deceptive, even making phony promises to get more votes whose failures won't be seen until their terms are over. Both parties want to spend its people's money in a way that invokes the least resistance. Look at what has happened to Social Security over the years and tell me this wasn't one of those phony promises. It's a ponzi scheme, plain and simple. And as the years go on, we become more and more impoverished and dependent trying to sustain it, and it becomes more and more politically profitable to do so. Rate hikes, dividing it into two parts, an illusory trust fund, changing the CPI to understate real inflation, means testing, retirement age increases so that more people die before collecting, what else are we going to do?
Absolutely, that is the least that we can do at this point. Let people choose, maybe that will hold them to prudent policies for fear of a rising competitor.
It's not a "stupid correlation". If that system proved more stable and better for an economy in the long run then at least one major economy would be using it. It's fucking ridiculous to sit here in the modern times and think that we should still be basing our economies off of shiny rocks, just because we did before. It failed, GET OVER IT.
Spending money and a stable currency should be disconnected. You can have a very strong currency and spend a lot of money, or you can have a weak one and spend very little money.
More impoverished? Since when? I'd love for you to prove that we are "impoverished" in any way.
CPI wasn't changed to understate inflation, it just has different inputs and should be used appropriately. There are several other measurements that are widely available and are put into the news quite regularly. CPI itself released core and non core which gives a pretty good gauge on things. That there are adjustments isn't a brain-bending reasoning experience.
A competing currency is absolutely retarded. It introduces massive complexity into the system and gives you almost no benefit. Again, name one major world economy that has multiple currencies accepted. That stupidity is gone, thankfully. It's wasteful because it introduces inefficiency, chaos, and transactional frictions into the economy. It also introduces problems of smaller systems that can crash pretty quickly, more runs on banks, and several other things that history has shown us to be true.
What's funny is that when the dollar appreciates again, people will stop this bullshit, as they
realize that things are cyclical, as always.
nonameo: You are correct. Had RP and his zealots stuck to a good message, such as fiscal responsibility, they might have gotten further. However, they run around reading websites and a limited number of books, pretending to be monday morning economists, when in actuality, they're fucking clueless. This leads them to look completely idiotic to those who know what they're talking about, and utterly stupid in front of those who can smell bullshit a mile away. That's why nobody gave a crap about RP, because every time he opened his mouth he blathered on about some tangential issue throwing around buzzwords like "inflation tax" and other stupidity.
Stick to one core issue you fricking loonie.
I love how every RP thread turns into an argument. Yet surprise surprise, it wasn't a Ron Paul supporter who started it.
Its not the Ron Paul supporters who are in a Mickey Mouse club. Our nation is piled knee deep in shit and some of you couldn't care less. I'm sorry, four thousand dead service personal, illegal wars, 50+ trillion in government obligations, a failing currency, and a government that pries into nearly every aspect of life is not acceptable to me. Go ahead and cry and bitch that we're all crazy. The truth is that RP supporters are much more knowledgeable then your average voter, much more dedicated, and actually care about the political process of this country. Thats far more than you can say about the average supporter of any other candidate.
To those who constantly put us down with cheap insults, get a clue, we don't care. Instead of constantly fighting us, whining how we spam forums, why don't you try to do something more productive. Why don't you present your ideas as to how to fix this country? I don't see anything reasonable from either the democrats or republicans. Both live in a fantasy world where everything is just peachy--but its not. All I see is more murdered citizens at the hands of reckless wars, more welfare, more debt, more inflation and less freedom.
Its not the Ron Paul supporters who are in a Mickey Mouse club. Our nation is piled knee deep in shit and some of you couldn't care less. I'm sorry, four thousand dead service personal, illegal wars, 50+ trillion in government obligations, a failing currency, and a government that pries into nearly every aspect of life is not acceptable to me. Go ahead and cry and bitch that we're all crazy. The truth is that RP supporters are much more knowledgeable then your average voter, much more dedicated, and actually care about the political process of this country. Thats far more than you can say about the average supporter of any other candidate.
To those who constantly put us down with cheap insults, get a clue, we don't care. Instead of constantly fighting us, whining how we spam forums, why don't you try to do something more productive. Why don't you present your ideas as to how to fix this country? I don't see anything reasonable from either the democrats or republicans. Both live in a fantasy world where everything is just peachy--but its not. All I see is more murdered citizens at the hands of reckless wars, more welfare, more debt, more inflation and less freedom.
- Jun 11, 2004
- 4,359
- 1
- 76
Don't you think you're asking a bit much?
The wonderful thing is that because we do care we're not going away!
Oh how they longed for the day that Ron Paul would drop out of the race and those blasted Paul supporters would stop questioning wars, monumental spending and peoples rights.
We have just begun educating the public. In 2007 we started with a very small group of passionate people and informed a few million throughout the nation. In 2011 we will start with a few million passionate and dedicated citizens.
In the meantime there is much work to be done.
The state of Idaho where Paul did very well has just called for the end of the federal reserve. We are making progress already.
Oh, you're right. My bad. I'm going to vote for Obama now because hes young, charismatic, and all the media talks about.
HAHA legendkiller got OWNED and keeps on going like a stupid fool, I love it...keep posting, oh, and give me some!
No, RP supporters use a great tactic. They run around posting stupid shit, then when everybody refutes it, they claim innocence, after getting slapped with everything from logic to data, they then run, only to crop up in another thread.
RPBs are Mickey Mouse club members. Granted, the US does have some problems, but you guys frame them incorrectly. I'd agree on illegal wars, but then the 50tr in obligations is set against what? 400tr in GDP? BFD. A failing currency? Ohhh gawd no, it lost some value relative to the Euro, the end is near! Screw off buckwheat, that's not a "failing" currency and it won't fail, at least from the current crop of issues.
RPB knowledge is limited to bullshit such as that, easily refuted. They are knowledgeable by reading stupid websites and running around claiming the Fed is a private cabal of international bankers with no US government oversight. They are about as knowledgeable as anybody else who would read incorrect information. By my standards, you're almost all wrong.
More productive? Correcting RPB foolishness is pretty productive for me, at least people don't read your tripe on face value or without a different perspective.
You're right, free market ideas are great.
As far as Adam Smith is concerned, he still believed in law if that's what you're referring to. Please don't automatically assume that free market capitalism means no government or law. He wrote The Theory of Moral Sentiments before the Wealth of Nations and even mentioned in the beginning of The Wealth of Nations to go read The Theory of Moral Sentiments first as you first need to establish a moral code and idea to live by before you can engage in transactions with other individuals.
No it didn't fail. Our government failed us by devaluing our dollar. Our government was ultimately responsible for the Great Depression. If almost every remotely intelligent person (even Ben Bernanke) can comprehend that why can't you?
Money is a concept developed entirely out of a free market. The notion that a select few individuals can declare a stable source of money is for an entire population is ridiculous. Fiat currencies come and go, but when commodities like gold and silver have operated as money throughout history then the question isn't a matter of if, but when it will return.
Another question I have is if gold is so valueless as money then why does our government store gold in fort knox and why was it actually made illegal in several periods of time?
If you can't fathom the kind of economic mess we're in then I feel sorry for you. Maybe after the next few major banks fail you'll begin to see how bad debt based money is. Oh wait, I forgot about our bail the rich policies. Looks like you'll have to slowly realize how bad things when things suddenly seem to be worth 20% more than usual.
CPI is a joke.
Its really not too difficult to imagine. If the government wasn't in the game of money we would already be ahead of the game. Now we have to start from the basics to learning what money really is. Anything. Fortunately, a private firm would easily run a private currency if it was something like gold (which has been rock solid in terms of stability, unlike our dollar).
What's funnier is that this will not happen until we go through our recession. Our government will do everything possible to stop this and they will fail. With their policies they will inevitably lead us to hyper inflation. The other alternative is having our major banks fail (which most need to, the way they've been operating..).
The only thing that makes me upset is that I can't directly laugh at you when our recessionary events unfold because they will unfold quite slowly. Have fun with our man behind the curtain, he's going to put on quite a show for us soon enough.
History is chock full of tyranny and dictatorship, so I suppose the same argument could have been made back then to continue on that path in times when no free societies existed. But no, gold has never failed, only paper money has. You can't blame the great depression on gold.
But going back to a gold standard isn't even the most important part. It's abolishing the Federal Reserve or allowing competing currencies. What good did the gold standard do after 1913? Not much. Sure, it limited the amount of inflation, but it didn't stop centralized decision making from deliberately contracting the money supply, causing prolonged hyperdeflation. Explain how that would have happened with market-determines interest rates and no fed. I don't seem to recall any of those bank runs you speak of being even 1% as painful to the economy as the depression. So your insane diatribe against the gold standard and article 10 of the constitution needs some more substance. Right now "it's old, therefore relevant to a bygone era" isn't quite cutting the mustard.
Relative to the 60s, for example? Let's see, we have a negative savings rate, personal debt has never been higher in relative or nominal terms, we need two incomes to provide for a family whereas before we only needed one. The dollar lost 40% of its value relative to other currencies in the last eight years, causing just about every commodity to soar while wages aren't rising to meet it. If we are so damned wealthy relative to the rest of the world, why are countries like China beginning to outbid us on a the finite goods bidding stage. There is no effing reason that those people should be outperforming us.
Since when is competition too complex for our own good? You sound more socialist by the minute.
Exaggerated, petty costs that don't even begin to amount to those created by monopolistic fiat.
You're right, history shows that fractional reserves, i.e. fraudulent lending, can create a lot of distortion and harm to unsuspecting people in the form of bank runs. But hey, if you want to make deposits with the Nigerian Bank of the United States for their free checking, that's your risk.
Like hell it's ever going back as high as it was without a serious interest rate hike a la Volcker years. That is the unfortunate pain that goes with the Fed avoiding a real recession in 2000. Right now, all I see is an inflationist taking us to a slow and cancerous end.
Pffff... Yeah, that's we needed to do: stick to the benevolent dictator argument of asking government to please be fiscally responsible. Huh? Why don't we just tear up the constitution and ask government nicely to protect our rights and restrain themselves? That'll really last.
The Looney is now worth more than a dollar, so I guess that's a compliment now?
HAHAHA the last two posts are GOLD! Bookmarked! :laugh:
Seriously though LK, are you really that much of a socialist?
Seriously though LK, are you really that much of a socialist?
so how many of you Paulsies believe in a New World Order and the Conspiracy of the Jews?
be honest.
be honest.
Yes, but there were never any truly free societies to show how things could be better. If we had had a successful example of an asset backed currency then we could use that as a barometer. You claim that gold has never failed, yet history is rife with the failure of gold. Not to mention it can't be used as a long-term viable option. If gold were so successful, then why did everybody flock from it post-WW1 and why hasn't anybody come back to it? If things were so fucking horrible, then WHY hasn't ONE country gone back? Because everybody knows that gold is a horrible system.
You don't recall the bank runs being more painful? First off, you weren't there. However, you can see numerous points in history where it WAS more painful, back in the late/mid 1800s. The whole world knew the US banking system was a fucking joke, which is why we were reviled in the international community. We were a country of deadbeat debtors with a screwed up banking system. Everybody knew it. That's why US debt constantly traded at a discount throughout that period.
Ohhh gawd no, a negative savings rate for a few years. The end is neigh! Personal debt compared to GDP isn't horrible. Yes, I think it's too high, but I don't think it's apocalyptic. Especially since the debt is being turned into goods/services and other investments.
We *NEED* two jobs? Please, show me one fucking study that says we *NEED* two jobs. No, people *WANT* everything modern luxury gives you and WANT two jobs to support it. Think of this. In the 1960s, how many TV's did you have? How many radios? Cars? Did you have VOIP + Cell + cable, or did you get everything OTA? What about DVDs? MP3 players? Even the average house is TWICE as large as it was before, that includes TWICE the mortgage payment (actually more), TWICE the maintenance, TWICE the taxes. Yes, we *NEED* starbucks and going out to eat all of the time. That's why we *NEED* two jobs, right? Because we need all of that shit.
Please, your adherence to dogmatic bullshit spewed by news agencies and the clinging of only ideas that your libertopian idiotic websites regurgitate give you such a slanted point of view that you need a fucking oil tanker full of V8 to set you straight.
No, we have become a nation of "I wants" that WANT two jobs to support the insatiable appetite for HDTV, spoiled brats with their own rooms (I shared myself), and all of the luxuries of modern life.
Show me *ONE* study that has shown that real wages have declined so significantly since the 1960's, long-term, that we *NEED* two jobs.
Ohhh gawd no, the dollar fell 40% in a time when this country was screwed up. Lets blame the Fed and the dollar, despite it doing poorly against fellow "fiat" non-asset based currencies! Put blame where it belongs, fiscal irresponsibility of the country and Congress, the Fed is a tool, nothing more. You don't blame the tool for the utilizer's fault, you blame the utilizer. You don't blame the gun, you blame the shooter.
Commodities have soared because investment in those areas has become outright stupid. Regulatory control over those areas were weakened in the last 7 years and now need to be revamped. The dollar is to blame for part, but not all.
As far as other countries out-growing us, so fucking what? We are a mature country that doesn't need to grow as fast. What do you think GB thought when the upstart USA started growing faster? It's the nature of the cycle and one that won't ever stop. China will need over 100 years to get the GDP we do at present growth rates.
What's funny is that you also ignore that China is a country full of problems now, with inflation multiples of what ours is, which was only kept low through subsidization, which they are stopping now. You fail again at a rounded viewpoint.
Exaggerated? What's exaggerated is your idea that a single currency is somehow more inefficient than multiple ones. Again, history has shown us that multiple ones have failed time and again, because they introduce way too many problems.
Fraudulent lending? Fraudulent according to whom? I'd love for you to show me how leverage is "fraudulent". You don't HAVE to have an asset backed by a deposit or equity, instead of debt. Thinking you have to is just fucking ignorant, which isn't surprising coming from you. By and large, the fractional system has shown it's merits through time. Only a libertopian fool would think otherwise.
Other investors are perfectly willing to invest in a bank, including debt and equity, which doesn't have to have deposits. Provided that the capital of the bank is resilient enough and the reporting and regulation strong enough, things should be perfectly fine and the systems aid in good growth and prosperity. However, cases of "runs" on the banks are when there has been poor regulation.
You may say that a 1:1 ratio leads to no runs, but it still does. There are several examples of runs in history. Not to mention you're saying the pluses don't outweigh the minuses, which is wrong. It's not surprising you take another ignorant viewpoint on this, since your whole world is black/white.
That's good for you. I don't believe it since the adaptability of the country is pretty good. I would agree that it was unfortunate we avoided the recession in 2000, but it wasn't the Fed that caused the upswing due to housing.
No, we need to take our own action to make sure the government is fiscally responsible. THey work for us. THis is the thing you guys continually fail to realize. The majority of the problems aren't due to the Fed, they are due to the Government not reining spending in. This is OUR responsibility, if they fail to do so, then we should either fire them or overthrow them.
I love how PC Surgeon snipes from the sidelines like a petulant kid who can't play in the ring because he's too weak. It's pathetic. As far as me being a "socialist", wow. OK, at least I make my way in the capitalistic system pretty fucking well, considering I participate inside it every damn day.
However, I also realize that there need to be balances against the abuses of the capitalistic system. A perfect example is oil. It is being heavily abused because our non-representative government removed regulation to allow Enron to "trade more freely" in the market. I haven't looked, but I am sure that was removed from people who got contributions from Enron. As we have seen, they do manipulate markets and this one is being manipulated.
I take a holistic approach to the market system we have, realizing that everything needs a balance, a counterweight. My capitalism is tempered by a bit of socialism because I realize that unrestrained capitalism leads to chaos and the raping of the lower SES people.
But I guess a more well-rounded viewpoint is a bad thing. Perhaps I should become a zealous spouter of stupid theories and old viewpoints that have been proven incorrect, all the while shifting blame to tangential situations.
If I did that, then I'd be an RPB.
I have decided to not really reply to RPB threads anymore, as he, and his followers, are now even more inconsequential and don't deserve my time. I may reply to egregious misstatements, but that's about it.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
- 432
- 126
Amusingly full of yourself, but unfortunately and rather demonstrably untrue.
I'll restate once again that while it's wonderful that Dr. Paul has brought a number of classic small-c conservative issues back to the forefront of the leadership race, he's also horribly misguided on many other issues. In this, he is the same as any other political candidate - wrong on some things, right on others. On the whole I'd say he's a positive force.
His most rabid supporters don't really differ in their lunatic devotion to their candidate, either (reference: that Hillary Clinton Web forum). They lack the ability to commit any critical thought to his policies and simply accept them as gospel.
No federal reserve! No IRS! Competing currencies! These and many more horrible ideas aren't unpopular because those poor doctorate-level economists haven't seen The Light - they're unpopular because they're insipid ideas mostly espoused by senior high school students and others with absolutely no formal training in the area. That's not a fallacy in regards to appealing to authority, that's simply pointing out that people with actual field training tend to be better acquainted with the facts of the matter relative to those who are educated via blogs and YouTube videos.
Get over this phase of adolescent pretense about seeing what others don't. We see just fine. Try this discussion again sometime, this time without the annoying preachiness.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter