rofl at car prices or everything prices.

[Brainonska511]

Most of the stuff in that pic is stuff that does not really keep or freeze well though. Some of it you could maybe grow yourself and if you have a decent rotation you can harvest as needed.

You don't have to freeze everything or be super selective here. Just be judicious in your selections and needs/wants/regular buys. Right now, it's apple and corn season, so I'm not buying expensive, out-of-season pineapples and watermelons.

Also if you only buy stuff on sale you're just going to waste money in gas trying to go to every store that has sales or going more often, instead of just doing a dedicated grocery trip to get everything you need at once.

Maybe if you live in bumfuck or if you actually go to a dozen different stores. I pick a single store that happens to be ~1 mile away and shop at it weekly - I get items fresh, and purchase things that I might use in the next month for freezing/storage.

The fact that it's more expensive than before is still a problem either way. Somebody is profiting, and it's not us or the workers.

It's certainly not grocery stores profiting, since they operate on slim single-digit profit margins. And wages have risen with inflation (or are beating it), with many of those gains going to the bottom must rungs.

 

[iCyborg]

The US average is here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003

• Jan 2015: $25.75/hr
• Jan 2023: $33.02/hr
• A 33.4% gain assuming you got the average raise and no promotions. That is pretty darn close to my simple example of a 34% increase.

33% seems reasonable for 8 years given that last few years raises have been a bit higher, at least in eng sector.
But where does it state that promotions are not counted?

 

[PowerEngineer]

Seems to me that the underlying problem is the falling value of skilled/experienced workers. Automation is increasingly providing the expertise that workers previously needed to possess, and now anyone with little or no knowledge can just attend to the mundane needs of the machines. It's been happening for a long time at the blue collar level, and (with AI) is now coming for the white collar jobs.

Even if the UAW "wins" a contract with 40% raises and a 4-day work week, it'll just give the auto industry more incentive to invest in greater automation. It'll turn into a loss for the workers in the long run.

I agree that as a society we should be wanting a robust middle class where families can afford to raise children and have a comfortable life on a single income (like the 1950's), but I am afraid that strict adherence to the American mantras of capitalism and free enterprise are going to take us further and further away from that goal.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I am afraid that strict adherence to the American mantras of capitalism and free enterprise are going to rake us further and further away from that goal.

100%. That's because American capitalism doesn't care about the people or the planet. Only profit and the accumulation and concentration of wealth (and by proxy, power)

 

[pmv]

Don't forget the hole in the ozone from pfas!

Interesting that the guy who came up with CFCs that ended up causing the ozone hole was the same guy who came up with putting lead in petrol as an anti-knocking agent, poisoning a generation.

I read recently he also invented a machine to help get him out of bed in the morning (he became partially-paralysed due to polio), that ended up strangling him to death.

Thomas Midgley, Jr.: Developed Tetraethyl Lead for Gasoline

Lessons Learned: Looking Back to Go ForwardA series of articles exploring historical events that provide an important lesson for ensuring a more sustainable and healthy environment. Originally...

www.healthandenvironment.org

 

[pmv]

The only thing really keeping everyone down now is housing costs, and that's because we refuse to believe that supply and demand is a thing that also impacts that market.

Housing and healthcare, no?

 

[Exterous]

Relevant:
View attachment 86344

That person shops at Kroger so a couple of big things I know from the packaging:
-That meat is some kind of expensive grass fed and fancier cut meat. It will be crazy overpriced compared to your 'regular meats' they carry
-Theres some kind of 'Simple Truth' premium (for Kroger) organic package of food right in front of the Kind bars
-Those prepackaged peppers are stupid expensive compared to the bulk ones. Same with that fruit. At my Kroger I can get a whole freaking watermelon for $1 less than that exact same tiny assed fruit container
-expensive name brand hummus, bread, and cereal. Seriously Krogers bread is like 1/3 the cost of the name brands

So if you WANT the expensive stuff for whatever reason that's fine. But this person is choosing the significantly more expensive options. And the Kroger brands or bulk options are generally as good or better than the name brands for so much less

 

[Pohemi]

The US average is here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003 ....

• A 33.4% gain assuming you got the average raise and no promotions. That is pretty darn close to my simple example of a 34% increase.

Here is people with full time jobs, but less than a high school degree ....

• A 42.9% increase. How does this compare to what you feel? Or are you thinking of part time employees?

This might be the most relevant to Anandtech (engineering men over 16 years old): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0254633400A ...

• A 40.6% increase.

Thanks for the links, I stand corrected.

I just have to wonder why so many people seem to be struggling financially today. Is that my imagination? To me it seems like the reality on the ground is different than on paper, but I was wrong about wage increases so perhaps not.

It sure seems like your dollar doesn't go as far today as it did in 2015, and I'd imagine that goods in general didn't rise by 40%. Maybe I'm wrong on that too.

 

[BoomerD]

I just went through the Ford site and "built" a pickup as close to mine as possible. (a few options weren't compatible) New price, $79,000, estimated payment, $1412/60 months....NOT including about $15,000 in sales taxes, DMV fees, etc.

About $14,000 more than my 2019 was in May 2020.

 

[pmv]

It's certainly not grocery stores profiting, since they operate on slim single-digit profit margins. And wages have risen with inflation (or are beating it), with many of those gains going to the bottom must rungs.

Is that the case in the US? You're in a much better state than we are, then. Wages have in no way been rising in line with inflation. Even prior to the current worst-since-the-1980s inflation increase, lots of sectors have had long-standing wage freezes, meaning effective pay cuts.

e.g. doctors' pay has fallen by 26% or 16% since the Tories took power in 2010 depending on which measure of inflation you use (the real difference between CPI and RPI isn't so much the inclusion or omission of housing costs, as the fact that CPI is a geometric average and RPI is an arithmetic one). Nurses and teachers have had similar cuts.

FactCheck: how much has junior doctors’ pay fallen and what pay rise do they want?

Thousands of junior doctors in England are on strike this week over pay. But how much has junior doctors’ pay fallen - and how does it compare to other parts of the health service? FactCheck takes a look.

www.channel4.com

I can't seem to find any fully up-to-date figures on real incomes, but lots of articles from a year ago were forecasting the biggest fall in real incomes since records began, and more recent articles seem to suggest that's not changed.

UK still faces record hit to living standards, OBR predicts

Britain remains on track for a record fall in living standards over the two years to the end of March 2024, despite an upward revision to growth forecasts, the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) said on Wednesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Zeze]

Thanks for the links, I stand corrected.

I just have to wonder why so many people seem to be struggling financially today. Is that my imagination? To me it seems like the reality on the ground is different than on paper, but I was wrong about wage increases so perhaps not.

It sure seems like your dollar doesn't go as far today as it did in 2015, and I'd imagine that goods in general didn't rise by 40%. Maybe I'm wrong on that too.

Because inflation is out of control.

A dozen eggs hit its all-time-high price recently.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Bills are the big thing people forget about too when talking about inflation and that is a huge dent on the pay cheque and the dent is bigger every year. Just natural gas alone doubled last year. Hydro goes up every couple years, property taxes go up by around 10% every year, water bill goes up by same amount, insurance goes up every few years too etc... groceries is only one part of it. Costs of living are easy $1,000+ extra per year every year if you add it all up. Most people can't come up with that kind of extra money. You can only do so much to save too. Like for gas I got a wood stove, and for hydro I've been meaning to expand my solar, but can't do anything about property taxes and that's about 1/4 of the pay cheque.

Housing is crazy too but that's only an issue for those currently looking. It's a bad situation but it's not as bad as the ongoing costs that keep going up as it affects everyone, even if your house is paid off. I do feel bad for people that are just trying to start life though. I consider myself lucky that I bought in 2009. Paid 165k for my house back then and today it's very hard to find a house for under 200k which is what I had been preapproved for. Got lucky with my off grid land too as it's hard to find acreage for under 100k now and that's only in the past few years. I get offers on it all the time but I'm not selling that. I can't really put a price on land.

 

[Exterous]

A dozen eggs hit its all-time-high price recently.

Maybe locally but the all time high was not what I would call recent and were for causes that were only fractionally inflation related

Average Price: Eggs, Grade A, Large (Cost per Dozen) in U.S. City Average

Large white, Grade A chicken eggs, sold in a carton of a dozen. Includes organic, non-organic, cage free, free range, and traditional."

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[Exterous]

Thanks for the links, I stand corrected.

I just have to wonder why so many people seem to be struggling financially today. Is that my imagination? To me it seems like the reality on the ground is different than on paper, but I was wrong about wage increases so perhaps not.

It sure seems like your dollar doesn't go as far today as it did in 2015, and I'd imagine that goods in general didn't rise by 40%. Maybe I'm wrong on that too.

My opinion:
We had an abnormally long run of ahistorically low interest rates. That meant that people could afford things via financing that were previously out of reach for them based on their income and previous interest rates. We've now had a rapid rise in rates to combat inflation (successfully so far - it hit 9% for 1 month last June but is now down in the 3% range) which rapidly moved those items 'back' out of reach. And by 'back' out of reach I mean back to 2008 interest rate levels. That is a long time to get used to going into cheap debt to get things. And that low interest environment is the only environment a number of adults have ever been exposed to but the impacts are broad. Credit card bills cost more if you carry debt so those ~40million Americans who carry credit card debt are paying a lot more for doing so. Those big fancy newer vehicles Americans 'have' to have not only cost more because of industry related reasons but also because the financing rates have skyrocketed. I maintain a large portion of the US population can get by with much cheaper vehicles but have been conditioned by society that they 'need' something bigger and fancier. There are certainly situations where they are necessary but a large number of people buy way more car\truck\SUV than they need. And if you have the means to do so fine but a number of people put themselves in a more stressful financial situation because of this.

Housing is a real challenge. We need to build way more housing than we are but its being blocked by a number of reasons that are beyond individual consumers to fix or deal with when they need housing. I also acknowledge there can be some significant regional variations to the housing considerations. There is some element of self inflicted wounds here as well though. The average house size has ballooned from ~1,000 sq ft in 1950 to over 2,500 sq ft even as the average American family size shrank from 3.7 to 3.13 during that same period. We've had a side business for 8 years working with realtors and its staggering the percentage of people who will not consider 'forcing' their kids to share a bedroom even if their current financial situation indicates they should for what they want to do. As if somehow entire generations of people were devastated because they had to be close to family. Granted we do have an issue with an excessive number of luxury homes being built but there is also some amount of consumer distortion of the housing\rental market with the increase demand for dwelling size.

 

[dullard]

Thanks for the links, I stand corrected.

I just have to wonder why so many people seem to be struggling financially today. Is that my imagination? To me it seems like the reality on the ground is different than on paper, but I was wrong about wage increases so perhaps not.

It sure seems like your dollar doesn't go as far today as it did in 2015, and I'd imagine that goods in general didn't rise by 40%. Maybe I'm wrong on that too.

You aren't wrong about people struggling financially. Many are. However, the situation really depends on how your expenses line up with your income.

Lets stick with the 40% number for raises and lets just say inflation was 40% (it was a bit less, but well just go with that) over the time period of concern.

• Case 1: You made $50k, your expenses were $50k. You live paycheck to paycheck. Suppose you got a 40% raise to $70k and your expenses went up 40% to $70k. You are still living paycheck to paycheck.

• Case 2: You made $40k, your expenses were $50k. You were really struggling, falling behind by $10k/year, going into credit card debt. Suppose you got a 40% raise to $56k and your expenses went up 40% to $70k. Now, not only do you have that decade of debt piling up, but now you are short even more: now it is up to $14k/year. These people are the ones you might be thinking of. They have been left behind in the economy, even if they did get a ~40% increase.

• Case 3: You are well off. You made $150k, your expenses were $100k. You could save, put a lot into retirement accounts, invest, or pay down $50k of debts (mortgage, car, student loans). But now with a 40% raise you make $210k. If your expenses also went up 40% to $140k, now you have $70k extra per year. You are far better off in this situation.

 

[dullard]

33% seems reasonable for 8 years given that last few years raises have been a bit higher, at least in eng sector.
But where does it state that promotions are not counted?

It doesn't explicitly state that. But it is implied in the type of data that is looked at. It looks at the economy as a whole. The economy doesn't get promoted. Sure, the data includes many promotions. But it also includes demotions, newly created jobs, firings, job changes, retirements, business expansions, business contractions, etc. You can't look at an average and say that a particular person will follow that path including expected promotions. Similarly you can't look at that average and say it applies to a specific person includes expected layoffs.

A person who works his way up from mail clerk to CEO will get more than the average raise. A person who stays at the mail clerk position their entire career will get close to that average raise. Now, if you can prove that there was a statistically significant increase in the CEO/mail clerk ratio over the data set period, then you have a slight point.

 

[jmagg]

Covid opened up the gouge gates. In my area (upstate NY), I see a 20% increase across the board. Picking up a 2020 CRV EX with 20,000 mi today for 31,000. My 2016 CRV LX beater needs a starter. Brick and mortar wants 350-400 for the starter which is aprox 2.5% of the cars value before install labor.

 

[BoomerD]

Because inflation is out of control.

A dozen eggs hit its all-time-high price recently.

I know, right? $1.69 is a ridiculous price dor a dozen eggs.

 

[Pohemi]

I got curious last night and looked up a few other rates of inflation since 2015. The people who are the worst off are the poorest (other than homeless, e.g. elderly and disabled on very low fixed incomes). Their incomes have risen just under 26% from 2015 to 2023. I guess that's why they're the hardest off.

FWIW, this isn't the group that I was basing my gut feeling off of. I've spoken to people making $100K a year who obviously aren't destitute now, but have still felt the pinch and needed to scale back spending and be more frugal, etc.

 

[nakedfrog]

Freezers cost a lot of money to run.
Tinned food you can stock up on, but everything else tends to go off, unless you spend a lot of money on electricity running a fridge (yet alone a freezer).

Say what? A chest freezer is along the lines of $30-50 per year, they're very efficient.

 

[pmv]

I did mention as an aside that "Obviously, any specific job will differ" from the average. The expected raises do depend on the specific job. You can see thousands of different breakdowns here:

Wages - Economic Data Series | FRED | St. Louis Fed

15,147 economic data series with tag: Wages. FRED: Download, graph, and track economic data.

fred.stlouisfed.org

The US average is here: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003

• Jan 2015: $25.75/hr
• Jan 2023: $33.02/hr
• A 33.4% gain assuming you got the average raise and no promotions. That is pretty darn close to my simple example of a 34% increase.

Here is people with full time jobs, but less than a high school degree and over 25 years old (that is, fairly close to the bottom for full time employees): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252916700Q

• Q2 2015: $499/week
• Q2 2023: $713/week
• A 42.9% increase. How does this compare to what you feel? Or are you thinking of part time employees?

This might be the most relevant to Anandtech (engineering men over 16 years old): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0254633400A

• 2014: $1975/week
• 2022: $2777/week (2023 data isn't on the chart yet)
• A 40.6% increase.

I can't work out from what it says in those links as to whether those are real or nominal figures, i.e. do they account for inflation. If they don't then I don't see that it tells me anything useful.

 

[dainthomas]

Inflation will grow worse, just wait for the Unions to get their raises. UPS set the tone and now we have the UAW asking for 40% pay increase and 32hr work-weeks.

The Fed & Govt unions also have their hands out and will be rewarded nicely.

Wild how massive transfers of wealth to the upper class and it's nbd, but workers getting a deserved modest share off profits and it's the apocalypse.

 

[quikah]

For fun I went through that pic of groceries at safeway, in SF Bay Area. Some of the most expensive things in it are the cereal, chips, and kind bars. The very things that are VERY easy to stock up on when on sale. Buying berries when not on sale is foolish, they can vary wildly in price. It is very late season for berries anyway, foolish to buy them now. You will be paying premium prices for crappy product.

 

[pmv]

Say what? A chest freezer is along the lines of $30-50 per year, they're very efficient.

Looking up 'power consumption of a freezer' I find

For a typical modern 15 Cu. Ft. freezer about 300 kWh is used annually or an average of 35 watts, this power consumption is already factoring compressor cycles and yearly temperature changes in the northern hemisphere.

So that's about £100 a year at current rates (so $120 if you just use the bank exchange rate, but I'm sure more if you take into account relative income levels). Which is better than I thought, to be honest, I have to admit, but still, I currently have been thinking of ways I could do without using the fridge, as that and the computer make up most of my electric bill (unit charges have more than quadrupled in the last couple of years).

 

[repoman0]

Looking up 'power consumption of a freezer' I find



So that's about £100 a year at current rates (so $120 if you just use the bank exchange rate, but I'm sure more if you take into account relative income levels). Which is better than I thought, to be honest, I have to admit, but still, I currently have been thinking of ways I could do without using the fridge, as that and the computer make up most of my electric bill (unit charges have more than quadrupled in the last couple of years).

You guys pay a lot for power. Your numbers come out to $0.40/kWh. My state (Massachusetts) has one of the highest electricity rates in the US and it’s still only about $0.25-0.30/kWh. I’ve been happy about my meager rooftop solar capacity lately though, saves me a couple thousand dollars annually and the bill is usually negative for May and June.