News Roe v. Wade overturned

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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136

1656099081141.png

No.... not fucking liars.
More like fucking people who believed the fucking liars in the first place.
Everyone knew, we all knew THIS is what the game plan was from day one.
A little too late to call them liars, better to tell the people in America to get your ass out of TikTok and..... FUCKING WAKE YOURSELF UP. Hello!!!! :rolleyes:
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
November will be very telling indeed.

We will find out if a majority really support Roe vs Wade.
We will find out if people really support Donald Trump.
We will find out if people really care about insurrections.
We will find out if Joe Biden is really as bad as Fox claims.
We will find out whether or not the polls on abortion, on Trump, and on Joe Biden are really accurate, or over exaggerated. Reliable, or meaningless.

We will find out the truth of where America really stands, which side Americans align with, what type of government Americans really want.
Yes, November will unveil the mysteries of the American electorate.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,947
2,558
136
The Supreme Court let it stand for months.
What did they let stand for months? Which specific, what case did they try? Be specific with the case and the ruling language. (Before you try to say the Texas Abortion law, you need to learn the ruling and what it pertained to - you will find out that NO case regarding vigilante justice being carried out has yet to be tried in court or one that supports states have the right to prevent their residents from seeking abortions out of state, and/or be charged with a crime when they return). Not blocking or shutting down the Texas abortion law based on the case that they heard, does not equate to mean such, nor does it equate to states being allowed to try their residents for leaving the state to seek abortions.

So again, there is no legal standing that would support such argument that states can make it illegal for residents to seek abortions in another state.
 
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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,076
136
Went to the protest in Washington Square Park just to be around sane good people and remind myself I am blessed to live in an area where there are more good people than bad, like in any red area of the nation.

There are more good people in this photo than at the largest Trump rally or GOP convention, ever.View attachment 63561
Too little too late.
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,484
3,041
136
I wouldn't classify all Christians in the same category as televangelist such as Olsteen. they are just in it for the money, I suspect some are atheist and just milking their flock.
I think you mean Osteen.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,060
48,070
136
What did they let stand for months? Which specific, what case did they try? Be specific with the case and the ruling language. (Before you try to say the Texas Abortion law, you need to learn the ruling and what it pertained to - you will find out that NO case regarding vigilante justice being carried out has yet to be tried in court or one that supports states have the right to prevent their residents from seeking abortions out of state, and/or be charged with a crime when they return). Not blocking or shutting down the Texas abortion law based on the case that they heard, does not equate to mean such, nor does it equate to states being allowed to try their residents for leaving the state to seek abortions.

So again, there is no legal standing that would support such argument that states can make it illegal for residents to seek abortions in another state.
This is really not accurate. Like I said, Idaho could absolutely make it a crime to leave the state for the purposes of getting an abortion. It doesn’t matter if the state they travel to has legal abortion, the Idaho crime is not ‘having an abortion in Washington’ it is ‘traveling for the purposes of abortion’ while still within Idaho.

You are correct that no case has been tried about this yet because it’s a new idea, but the idea that such laws are categorically impossible is…uhmm…not true. As we discussed he full faith and credit clause would theoretically bind other states to enforce this judgment, although I think as a political matter they will refuse.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,057
33,106
136
As we discussed he full faith and credit clause would theoretically bind other states to enforce this judgment, although I think as a political matter they will refuse.

Some states have already moved legislation to this effect. California, Washington, etc. Others are working on it.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,053
7,981
136
You mean Hilary, the person who received several million more votes than Trump?

But even now I don't see Biden giving any reason to hope voting Democrat will fix anything about that - has he produced any serious proposal for reforming the Senate and the electoral college? Ending gerrymandering? Expanding the Court in order to make those things possible? Unless the whole system is substantially rebuilt the future is minority rule if not in perpetuity then for a very long time. If the Democrats think the answer is more people voting for them, shouldn't they be addressing the problems that render those votes ineffectual?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,057
33,106
136
But even now I don't see Biden giving any reason to hope voting Democrat will fix anything about that - has he produced any serious proposal for reforming the Senate and the electoral college? Ending gerrymandering? Expanding the Court in order to make those things possible? Unless the whole system is substantially rebuilt the future is minority rule if not in perpetuity then for a very long time. If the Democrats think the answer is more people voting for them, shouldn't they be addressing the problems that render those votes ineffectual?

Really the wait among Democrats is for generational turnover to happen at the leadership levels in the party. This is likely in the next couple cycles and does mean people should keep voting for Democrats at every opportunity because their primary votes help shape this and if the party is in a position of power when it occurs then these ideas become real deliverables. As long as Manchin and Sinema are the 49th and 50th votes for the Dems in the Senate what Biden does or does not propose really doesn't mean a lot practically. There is certainly an argument that he should be more rhetorically aggressive but he's not really that guy to begin with.
 

Viper1j

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2018
4,169
3,645
136
#DeathSantis: Is it a valid religion, if it's not your religion?


Synagogue sues Florida, saying abortion restrictions violate religious freedoms

1656165955466.png

Religion, particularly the influence of Christian conservatives, has been at the heart of the anti-abortion movement and the push to overturn Roe v. Wade, the 1973 ruling legalizing abortion throughout the United States.

But a lawsuit filed last week by a South Florida synagogue challenges new legislation in the state banning most abortions after 15 weeks, saying it violates the state constitution’s right to privacy and freedom of religion. In Jewish law, the suit argues, “abortion is required if necessary to protect the health, mental or physical well-being of the woman.”

The lawsuit, filed by Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor, a progressive synagogue in Palm Beach County not affiliated with a broader denomination, may face an uphill climb in court. But it is a reminder that abortion poses religious issues beyond those of the Christian right. And it suggests potential legal issues that could surface at a time when Roe seems likely to be overturned and the Supreme Court has been aggressively open to a wider role for religion in public and political life.

Florida’s state law limiting abortions, signed by Gov. Ron DeSantis in April, goes into effect July 1. In banning abortions after 15 weeks, it does not make exceptions for cases of incest, rape or human trafficking. It does, however, allow for abortions if the mother’s life is endangered or if two doctors determine that the fetus has a fatal abnormality. The law was challenged earlier this month by the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida on behalf of a group of abortion providers and abortion rights organizations.

DeSantis’ office said in a statement Wednesday that it was “confident that this law will ultimately withstand all legal challenges.”

Deeply rooted Jewish teachings indicate that abortion is permissible — and even required — if a mother’s life is in danger, said Jewish leaders from across the ideological spectrum. In Jewish thought, it is also widely accepted that as long as a fetus is in the womb, it has “potential” but not full personhood, said Michal Raucher, an assistant professor of Jewish Studies at Rutgers University.

Rabbi Barry Silver of the Florida synagogue is a self-proclaimed “Rabbi-rouser,” leading a congregation that says it practices a “modern, progressive Judaism” based in “reason and science.” A lawyer and former Democratic member of the Florida House of Representatives, Silver said Jewish law was “consistent with life beginning at birth.”

But for some Jews, that expansive interpretation has become more difficult to defend in the current political environment.

“It’s an uncomfortable position for many Jews to take publicly because there’s so much that the Christian right has baked into that understanding of fetal personhood,” Raucher said. “For decades, Jewish institutions have kind of danced around this, saying that it’s potential personhood, but we still value fetal life.”

Particularly in progressive Jewish communities, abortion is broadly accepted, beyond life-or-death situations. A 2014 Pew Research survey found that of more than 800 Jews surveyed, 83% said that abortion should be legal in most or all cases. In May, hundreds of Jews from varying movements rallied outside the U.S. Capitol in support of abortion rights. The 2022 National Survey of Jewish Voters conducted by the Jewish Electorate Institute found that 75% of Jews said they were concerned the Supreme Court would overturn Roe.

Among Orthodox Jews, the issue is more nuanced, said Rabbi Moshe Hauer, executive vice president of the Orthodox Union. Abortion is necessary if a mother faces grave physical or psychological harm, he said, but is not permitted because of “simple difficulty” or a “belief in the right to choose.”

“Jewish law believes we have an incredible responsibility to life and even to potential life,” he said.

Andrew Shirvell, founder and executive director for Florida Voice for the Unborn, an anti-abortion group based in Tallahassee, said the lawsuit was merely a “publicity stunt” based on “pretty frivolous” arguments.

“This is one synagogue in Palm Beach County,” he said. “They certainly don’t speak for all Jews in Florida, or even the Jewish religion.”


The legal footing of the suit is tenuous, Douglas Laycock, a professor of religious studies at the University of Virginia Law School, wrote in an email. There is likely only a small window of possible litigation, given that exceptions for a mother’s survival are built into the Florida law.

“To claim that my religion permits abortion, or that this statute addresses a point of religious disagreement, is not nearly enough,” he wrote. “It is not what your religion permits that is protected, but what you do principally for religious reasons.”

But while the suit may not succeed, its central argument may prove prescient, said Mary Ziegler, a law professor at the University of California Davis School of Law and an expert on abortion history, politics and law.

“If this lawsuit isn’t the one, there’s going to be a lawsuit with a pregnant person who’s going to say the same thing,” she said.

There is precedent, too, for progressive efforts to expand abortion access on the basis of religious liberty, Ziegler noted. Nearly 50 years ago, during discussions around the Hyde Amendment — first passed in 1976, barring the use of federal funds for most abortions — some on the religious left argued that the provision violated the separation of church and state and the free exercise of religion.

Now, as the Supreme Court adopts a broader interpretation of the First Amendment’s right to the free exercise of religion, some progressives have begun to reconsider that argument.

“This is kind of calling the Supreme Court on the idea that if religious liberty is really for everyone, then there should be winners and losers of all kinds, and the winners should not only hold a particular subset of beliefs,” Ziegler said.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,060
48,070
136
#DeathSantis: Is it a valid religion, if it's not your religion?


Synagogue sues Florida, saying abortion restrictions violate religious freedoms

View attachment 63585

Religion, particularly the influence of Christian conservatives, has been at the heart of the anti-abortion movement and the push to overturn Roe v. Wade, the 1973 ruling legalizing abortion throughout the United States.

But a lawsuit filed last week by a South Florida synagogue challenges new legislation in the state banning most abortions after 15 weeks, saying it violates the state constitution’s right to privacy and freedom of religion. In Jewish law, the suit argues, “abortion is required if necessary to protect the health, mental or physical well-being of the woman.”

The lawsuit, filed by Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor, a progressive synagogue in Palm Beach County not affiliated with a broader denomination, may face an uphill climb in court. But it is a reminder that abortion poses religious issues beyond those of the Christian right. And it suggests potential legal issues that could surface at a time when Roe seems likely to be overturned and the Supreme Court has been aggressively open to a wider role for religion in public and political life.

Florida’s state law limiting abortions, signed by Gov. Ron DeSantis in April, goes into effect July 1. In banning abortions after 15 weeks, it does not make exceptions for cases of incest, rape or human trafficking. It does, however, allow for abortions if the mother’s life is endangered or if two doctors determine that the fetus has a fatal abnormality. The law was challenged earlier this month by the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida on behalf of a group of abortion providers and abortion rights organizations.

DeSantis’ office said in a statement Wednesday that it was “confident that this law will ultimately withstand all legal challenges.”

Deeply rooted Jewish teachings indicate that abortion is permissible — and even required — if a mother’s life is in danger, said Jewish leaders from across the ideological spectrum. In Jewish thought, it is also widely accepted that as long as a fetus is in the womb, it has “potential” but not full personhood, said Michal Raucher, an assistant professor of Jewish Studies at Rutgers University.

Rabbi Barry Silver of the Florida synagogue is a self-proclaimed “Rabbi-rouser,” leading a congregation that says it practices a “modern, progressive Judaism” based in “reason and science.” A lawyer and former Democratic member of the Florida House of Representatives, Silver said Jewish law was “consistent with life beginning at birth.”

But for some Jews, that expansive interpretation has become more difficult to defend in the current political environment.

“It’s an uncomfortable position for many Jews to take publicly because there’s so much that the Christian right has baked into that understanding of fetal personhood,” Raucher said. “For decades, Jewish institutions have kind of danced around this, saying that it’s potential personhood, but we still value fetal life.”

Particularly in progressive Jewish communities, abortion is broadly accepted, beyond life-or-death situations. A 2014 Pew Research survey found that of more than 800 Jews surveyed, 83% said that abortion should be legal in most or all cases. In May, hundreds of Jews from varying movements rallied outside the U.S. Capitol in support of abortion rights. The 2022 National Survey of Jewish Voters conducted by the Jewish Electorate Institute found that 75% of Jews said they were concerned the Supreme Court would overturn Roe.

Among Orthodox Jews, the issue is more nuanced, said Rabbi Moshe Hauer, executive vice president of the Orthodox Union. Abortion is necessary if a mother faces grave physical or psychological harm, he said, but is not permitted because of “simple difficulty” or a “belief in the right to choose.”

“Jewish law believes we have an incredible responsibility to life and even to potential life,” he said.

Andrew Shirvell, founder and executive director for Florida Voice for the Unborn, an anti-abortion group based in Tallahassee, said the lawsuit was merely a “publicity stunt” based on “pretty frivolous” arguments.

“This is one synagogue in Palm Beach County,” he said. “They certainly don’t speak for all Jews in Florida, or even the Jewish religion.”


The legal footing of the suit is tenuous, Douglas Laycock, a professor of religious studies at the University of Virginia Law School, wrote in an email. There is likely only a small window of possible litigation, given that exceptions for a mother’s survival are built into the Florida law.

“To claim that my religion permits abortion, or that this statute addresses a point of religious disagreement, is not nearly enough,” he wrote. “It is not what your religion permits that is protected, but what you do principally for religious reasons.”

But while the suit may not succeed, its central argument may prove prescient, said Mary Ziegler, a law professor at the University of California Davis School of Law and an expert on abortion history, politics and law.

“If this lawsuit isn’t the one, there’s going to be a lawsuit with a pregnant person who’s going to say the same thing,” she said.

There is precedent, too, for progressive efforts to expand abortion access on the basis of religious liberty, Ziegler noted. Nearly 50 years ago, during discussions around the Hyde Amendment — first passed in 1976, barring the use of federal funds for most abortions — some on the religious left argued that the provision violated the separation of church and state and the free exercise of religion.

Now, as the Supreme Court adopts a broader interpretation of the First Amendment’s right to the free exercise of religion, some progressives have begun to reconsider that argument.

“This is kind of calling the Supreme Court on the idea that if religious liberty is really for everyone, then there should be winners and losers of all kinds, and the winners should not only hold a particular subset of beliefs,” Ziegler said.
Spoiler alert - they are going to find out that religious liberty isn’t really for everyone.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,465
7,869
136
Ultimately the war on abortion is a war on women having sex, nothing has really changed in that department. Women who have sex are sluts and the state must punish them by forcing them to give birth.

Do you mean indirectly? Or subconsciously? I don’t know any pro-lifers that are fighting against women's rights to have sex. As. Christians we do have a different viewpoint on sexual morality, but we aren’t anti-sex. I do live in the northeast though. Maybe that changes things.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,218
12,860
136
About what they’re coming for next… from SC’s own dictation.

So, how long before its gonna be illegal to be gay in Texas?

 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,057
33,106
136
Do you mean indirectly? Or subconsciously? I don’t know any pro-lifers that are fighting against women's rights to have sex. As. Christians we do have a different viewpoint on sexual morality, but we aren’t anti-sex. I do live in the northeast though. Maybe that changes things.

Every time I've dug a bit at a pro-lifer who says it isn't about sex it always ends up being about sex when they start talking about how contraception is bad and abstinence only sex education should be law. My experience is mostly midwestern based where we have a lot of nuts evangelicals.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,021
4,795
146
it's right there below the surface of everything.
In much of Europe nudity is simply not seen the same way as the US. The undercurrent of prudishness is everywhere here.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,060
48,070
136
Do you mean indirectly? Or subconsciously? I don’t know any pro-lifers that are fighting against women's rights to have sex. As. Christians we do have a different viewpoint on sexual morality, but we aren’t anti-sex. I do live in the northeast though. Maybe that changes things.
The anti abortion movement is part of a larger Christian movement to control women’s sexual agency. Basically the idea is that in order to curb premarital sex, that sex should be as costly as possible.

Other examples would be the campaign by Christians against promotion of contraceptives and things like the HPV vaccine. I remember being particularly blown away by the second because the HPV vaccine is essentially a cancer vaccine. Christians were worried though that if kids were less likely to get cancer they would be more likely to have premarital sex, so they opposed it.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,768
18,046
146
Do you mean indirectly? Or subconsciously? I don’t know any pro-lifers that are fighting against women's rights to have sex. As. Christians we do have a different viewpoint on sexual morality, but we aren’t anti-sex. I do live in the northeast though. Maybe that changes things.

One of the things that came out of Roe vs Wade was real sex education and efforts to prevent unwanted pregnancies with real world solutions, which is why abortion rates have been dropping since the early 80’s.

religious conservatives will push abstinence only again. Roe vs wade repeal is the tip of the iceberg, if you think this is where this stops, then you’re only fooling yourself.

p.s. - how ya been 😁
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,582
9,965
136
Every time I've dug a bit at a pro-lifer who says it isn't about sex it always ends up being about sex when they start talking about how contraception is bad and abstinence only sex education should be law. My experience is mostly midwestern based where we have a lot of nuts evangelicals.

not really shocking which states have the highest teen pregnancy rates...