Robert Gates announcement

[tontod]

I missed watching Robert Gates's announcement of what defense programs were going to be cut. Did anyone watch it in its entirety, and if so did he propose anything specific?

 

[winnar111]

Patriots are speaking out against the surrender president.

"Now we no longer have a ?global war on terror,'? Gingrich said. ?We have ?overseas contingency operations? Now we will no longer have ?terrorist attacks.? We will have ?man-made disasters.? None of our enemies seem to have learned this new language."



Hope and change!

 

[dphantom]

F22's and the new Marine 1 helicopter fleet. Not sure what else.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: tontod
I missed watching Robert Gates's announcement of what defense programs were going to be cut. Did anyone watch it in its entirety, and if so did he propose anything specific?

F-22 is out. Saw that much.

 

[miketheidiot]

hows the ods going winnar?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: tontod
I missed watching Robert Gates's announcement of what defense programs were going to be cut. Did anyone watch it in its entirety, and if so did he propose anything specific?

F-22 is out. Saw that much.

:thumbsdown:

 

[Thump553]

The F-22 program was designed as much with pork in mind as it was with real military needs. Great care was taken to have a substantial subcontractor in almost every Congressional district that matters. The political fallout will be interesting.

 

[tontod]

Missile Defense was also talked about being cut, its a fat cow for Boeing with them being prime on GMD, I bet that will have a big political fallout if its slated for cutbacks.

 

[Genx87]

Wow why cut the F-22 program now??!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[sciwizam]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Wow why cut the F-22 program now??!?!?!?!?!?!?

I don't think they cut it, looks like it is capped to 187 planes.

EDIT: Link

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: sciwizam

Originally posted by: Genx87
Wow why cut the F-22 program now??!?!?!?!?!?!?

I don't think they cut it, looks like it is capped to 187 planes.

EDIT: Link

They capped it. Zumwalt got limited to 4, with a few more Arleigh Burkes coming out. ABL is now limited to one test plane. Presidential Helo got whacked.

Nothing too horrible.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Good! Too many people are way too willing to throw my money at useless shit like more planes and bigger bombs.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Good! Too many people are way too willing to throw my money at useless shit like more planes and bigger bombs.

Yea, that money really needs to go to something useful, like AIG.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Good! Too many people are way too willing to throw my money at useless shit like more planes and bigger bombs.

Yea, that money really needs to go to something useful, like AIG.

Let's be realistic here.

1. A large scale conflict that requires hundreds and hundreds of ships and airplanes is unlikely at this point. The world is now too economically intertwined to start a war.

2. Small conflicts such as first Iraq War can be handled sufficiently with the forces US already has.

3. More ships and planes will not stop any possible terrorist attacks.


It makes no sense to spend so much on defense when it's not needed.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Good! Too many people are way too willing to throw my money at useless shit like more planes and bigger bombs.

Yea, that money really needs to go to something useful, like AIG.

Let's be realistic here.

1. A large scale conflict that requires hundreds and hundreds of ships and airplanes is unlikely at this point. The world is now too economically intertwined to start a war.

2. Small conflicts such as first Iraq War can be handled sufficiently with the forces US already has.

3. More ships and planes will not stop any possible terrorist attacks.


It makes no sense to spend so much on defense when it's not needed.

QFT to the tee. I PROMISE that having 10,000 more planes will NOT help us win the war on terror.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Good! Too many people are way too willing to throw my money at useless shit like more planes and bigger bombs.

Yea, that money really needs to go to something useful, like AIG.

Let's be realistic here.

1. A large scale conflict that requires hundreds and hundreds of ships and airplanes is unlikely at this point. The world is now too economically intertwined to start a war.

2. Small conflicts such as first Iraq War can be handled sufficiently with the forces US already has.

3. More ships and planes will not stop any possible terrorist attacks.


It makes no sense to spend so much on defense when it's not needed.

So you want to go off of "not-likely?"

Do you watch world politics at all? At any moment, China can invade Taiwan, NK can invade SK, the Russians can make a push west to regain old soviet territory.

Do you live in a world that is all unicorns and rainbows and everone holds hands and sings?

Edit: Not to mention, when Israel strikes Iran, Iran may try and close the Straight of Hormuz or otherwise hit us.

 

[bipartisanpwnage]

We spend 47% of the entire world's defense budget, I think we can handle that just fine. The problem is that our equipment isn't tailored to the type of warfare being fought now. We need more robots on the ground and drones in the air. More planes and ships are unnecessary. I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of my tax dollars going up into flames.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: OCguy
So you want to go off of "not-likely?"

Do you watch world politics at all? At any moment, China can invade Taiwan, NK can invade SK, the Russians can make a push west to regain old soviet territory.

Do you live in a world that is all unicorns and rainbows and everone holds hands and sings?

Edit: Not to mention, when Israel strikes Iran, Iran may try and close the Straight of Hormuz or otherwise hit us.

Russians won't push west. They may try to exert political and economic pressure as they did in recent past, but they will not take any military action. NK invading SK is on the same scale as Iraq War, it does not require thousands of war planes. If Israel strikes Iran, well, that's a touchy subject, but once again I do not see this as requiring thousands of warships and F-22's. China invading Taiwan is one of the more likely scenarios you posted, but I seriously doubt US would go into war with China over Taiwan no matter how many ships we may have.

How about you stop living in fear and start assessing the risk realistically?

No one in their right mind would get home theft insurance if it costs through the roof and the risk of actual theft in your neiborhood is close to zilch.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

Originally posted by: OCguy
So you want to go off of "not-likely?"

Do you watch world politics at all? At any moment, China can invade Taiwan, NK can invade SK, the Russians can make a push west to regain old soviet territory.

Do you live in a world that is all unicorns and rainbows and everone holds hands and sings?

Edit: Not to mention, when Israel strikes Iran, Iran may try and close the Straight of Hormuz or otherwise hit us.

Russians won't push west. They may try to exert political and economic pressure as they did in recent past, but they will not take any military action. NK invading SK is on the same scale as Iraq War, it does not require thousands of war planes. If Israel strikes Iran, well, that's a touchy subject, but once again I do not see this as requiring thousands of warships and F-22's. China invading Taiwan is one of the more likely scenarios you posted, but I seriously doubt US would go into war with China over Taiwan no matter how many ships we may have.

How about you stop living in fear and start assessing the risk realistically?

No one in their right mind would get home theft insurance if it costs through the roof and the risk of actual theft in your neiborhood is close to zilch.

It is called being prepared. We right now have the technological advantage. Do we want to relinquish it so we can erect another failed social program?

btw I believe the initial investment of the F-22 was supposed to top out about 250 planes. So i guess we will get close. The rest of our fleet is supposed to be replaced with F-35s.

Our economies being so intertwined are what will get us into a war imo.

 

[Lemon law]

I would believe Gingrich if we ever had an effective war on terror, instead we have had a GWB program that instead increased the amount of global terrorism.

Maybe not the actual GWB intent, but when that is what it really did, its a no brainer, scrap the program.

Its does not matter what new slogan we use, its the end bottom line results we have to pay attention to.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Originally posted by: Genx87
It is called being prepared. We right now have the technological advantage. Do we want to relinquish it so we can erect another failed social program?

btw I believe the initial investment of the F-22 was supposed to top out about 250 planes. So i guess we will get close. The rest of our fleet is supposed to be replaced with F-35s.

Our economies being so intertwined are what will get us into a war imo.

You can be prepared, but it is stupid to buy a cannon to kill a fly, when aerosol can would do the job just as good. No one is arguing for a total disarmament, just for keeping defense spending at a level that is justified by the current threats.

 

[NeoV]

if we aren't prepared when we are spending "47% of the entire world's defense budget", then the people in charge of this country for the past 25 years are nothing but a collective bunch of idiots...

err, wait

 

[Pocatello]

I think our country's debt is more detrimental to our security than anything. If people want to fight each other, let them, we can sell them the weapons. After they're done fighting, we can sell them the reconstruction materials. That was how the U.S got out of the depression after WWII.

 

[Elfear]

If you guys haven't had a chance to read this article by Secretary Gates, you should. He explains his philosophy about the types of warfare we'll be fighting and where our defense dollars need to be spent in the future. Really good read as he actually gets into some detail and not just statements intended to impress the media.

 

[Phokus]

Good for Gates, i expect lots of idiot republicans to start frothing at the mouth and call him a liberal commie terrorist sympathizer. The F22 is a humongous waste of money and are ill suited for the wars we are fighting today... drones are a much better use of money. The soviet union isn't a threat anymore.