Or are poor.
P.S. JEDIYoda, is that massive sig actually permitted by the forum code, or do you manually copy/paste it into every post you make?
Or are poor.
P.S. JEDIYoda, is that massive sig actually permitted by the forum code, or do you manually copy/paste it into every post you make?
judasmachine
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2002
- 8,515
- 3
- 81
Absolutely, and poor in this case means they have no voice. And when they gather to force their voice the state responds with water hoses or worse. It's kind of sad to watch working class cops break up protests and strikes carried out by working class folks.
Funny, I have done that and it seems that the only one here lacking any undestanding of Socialism is you...
Socialists read Karl Marx, Anti-Socialists understand him.
School isn't gonna help you if dont actually learn.
Give up the socialism crusade already, people were touting the same stuff over 100 years ago and it's been failing ever since. Within 50 years countries around the world will finnaly give up trying to be like the failing European systems and be more like USA, Japan, and Taiwan, and we'll all be better off.
OH NO!!!! Govt, police, french army...Everyone throw your hands up and surrender!!!!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA..............!!!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA..............!!!
apparently neither is democrat, but you conveniently left out the "right wing" part, which is universally the opposite of socialism.
Japan is arguably one of the most capitalist countries to have ever existed, short of Taiwan or certain periods of US history.
judasmachine
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2002
- 8,515
- 3
- 81
Historically the French people have been quite militant and willing to fight unto death. It's their government that rolls over every chance it gets. From storming the Bastille, to the Resistance in WWII, to burning McDonald's, the people of France are far from cowards.
While I dont know much of Japan, no "most" capitalistic country has the following features (from CIA factbook):
Well this has to wait CIA is down
anyway, Japan has one of the most equal income distributions of the world - how capitalistic is that
Check out where denmark, norway, sweden and finland end up on the economical and freedom'ish scale. These countries are somewhat socialist.
Your input that socialism is dead is the most unfounded thing i have ever read.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,809
- 6,362
- 126
Right/Left Liberal/Conservative are not universally the same with every nation. In short: Right/Conservative = Tradition; Left/Liberal = change
As an example, when the Soviet Union fell, Communists were the Right wing, Capitalists the Left. In similar fashion, the US Founding Fathers were Left/Liberals rejecting Monarchy and other Traditions in favour of what was considered a kooky venture, a Democratically elected Republic.
You can not use your particular political/social norms and apply them universally. However, Socialism/Capitalism are quite separate and have universal meaning, but they don't always fall as Left/Right respectively in all nations.
As an example, when the Soviet Union fell, Communists were the Right wing, Capitalists the Left. In similar fashion, the US Founding Fathers were Left/Liberals rejecting Monarchy and other Traditions in favour of what was considered a kooky venture, a Democratically elected Republic.
You can not use your particular political/social norms and apply them universally. However, Socialism/Capitalism are quite separate and have universal meaning, but they don't always fall as Left/Right respectively in all nations.
What on earth are you talking about? The right-left comes from how the politicians were sitting in the french parlament in days of old. Things have changed since then, and the classical right/left don't exist anymore, i don't know if people are not aware of this but the left/right has been changed into a ´2-dimensional system.
I'll try to find a picture of it.
The political spectrum is pretty universal. Theres from left to right, communism to capitalism, top to bottom, authoritarianism to anarchy. Yes, its universal.
liberal is not always associated with left, and conservative is not always associated with right. But the meaning of right and left are constant.
How is it perfect capitalism when the Janitor earns as much as a manager (I am exaggerating)
Btw, how come that all of the really capitalistic countries (no/or little social nets) have much more unequal income ditribution where that gaps are in fact becoming larger?
Good point.. But remember that culturally they have an aversion towards government handouts. I remember reading about call centers in Japan that were created so that unemployed people could *look* like they were still employed because of the shame associated with not working..
cKGunslinger
Lifer
- Nov 29, 1999
- 16,408
- 57
- 91
Do you live in America? If so then why did you not riot for these things the government did?
If you do live in America then you are a coward for not living up to your ideals and rioting.
Ah well, since the first one got quoted anyway, here's my real reply 
Funny how a strange event triggers big riots. I mean the two persons who hid in a transformator station, thinking they were seeked by the police, and then they electrocuted themselves accidentally :Q But naturally there are other reasons for the riots. I think there are at least three factors, but I hesitate to judge which one is most important. The reason for the riots is that "life sucks" in the suburbs of Paris...
1. cultural differences
Apparently immigrant families and French people don't mix too well. Of course we encounter this problem everywhere but to different degrees. The immigrants seem to have little respect for the state and the police, the question is: Did they in the past? Religious differences aren't that important right now, in my opinion. Of course frustrated beings are a more fertile ground for islamism, but at the moment we're talking about riots of young people and not terror.
2. joblessness
It's not uncommon for these areas to have an unemployment rate of 50% among youths. On one hand, this comes from limitations of the school system, but the parents are responsible, too (They may fail to integrate the youth because of cultural differences, look above). And a lack of perspectives could cause riots.
3. infrastructure
There's one factor which is much less related to the politic orientation of the government and the administration than say, cultural integration and the education system. There were reports of several burnings with casualties in the suburbs. The affected buildings were state-owned low-rent solutions for the poor. But some of those buildings turned out to be "eternal provisionary solutions" with few infrastructures, or they became overpopulated and hence dangerous. And even if factor 1 and 2 became visible at some point, in my opinion the degradation of the infrastructure was the most evident process, tolerated or ignored by different governments during the last two decades.
And what's Sarkosy doing now? He mostly speaks about how he wants to forcefully end the riots. Maybe he's fishing at the right end of the political spectrum (as for France)... I don't know, maybe force is the right reaction for this acute situation (I've heard in the radio today that riots destroyed more than 20 000 cars in France since the beginning of this year), but the solution requires an approach from many directions. The passivity of French politicians has resulted in a nice Gordian knot here.
To the threadstarter, I'd like to say that I consider it really not necessary to leave Paris, because I don't believe that the riots are going to expand outside of the suburb.
Funny how a strange event triggers big riots. I mean the two persons who hid in a transformator station, thinking they were seeked by the police, and then they electrocuted themselves accidentally :Q But naturally there are other reasons for the riots. I think there are at least three factors, but I hesitate to judge which one is most important. The reason for the riots is that "life sucks" in the suburbs of Paris...
1. cultural differences
Apparently immigrant families and French people don't mix too well. Of course we encounter this problem everywhere but to different degrees. The immigrants seem to have little respect for the state and the police, the question is: Did they in the past? Religious differences aren't that important right now, in my opinion. Of course frustrated beings are a more fertile ground for islamism, but at the moment we're talking about riots of young people and not terror.
2. joblessness
It's not uncommon for these areas to have an unemployment rate of 50% among youths. On one hand, this comes from limitations of the school system, but the parents are responsible, too (They may fail to integrate the youth because of cultural differences, look above). And a lack of perspectives could cause riots.
3. infrastructure
There's one factor which is much less related to the politic orientation of the government and the administration than say, cultural integration and the education system. There were reports of several burnings with casualties in the suburbs. The affected buildings were state-owned low-rent solutions for the poor. But some of those buildings turned out to be "eternal provisionary solutions" with few infrastructures, or they became overpopulated and hence dangerous. And even if factor 1 and 2 became visible at some point, in my opinion the degradation of the infrastructure was the most evident process, tolerated or ignored by different governments during the last two decades.
And what's Sarkosy doing now? He mostly speaks about how he wants to forcefully end the riots. Maybe he's fishing at the right end of the political spectrum (as for France
)... I don't know, maybe force is the right reaction for this acute situation (I've heard in the radio today that riots destroyed more than 20 000 cars in France since the beginning of this year), but the solution requires an approach from many directions. The passivity of French politicians has resulted in a nice Gordian knot here.To the threadstarter, I'd like to say that I consider it really not necessary to leave Paris, because I don't believe that the riots are going to expand outside of the suburb.
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