Riots expected after acquittal: Michael Brown

[HomerJS]

It shouldn't be a big deal, but it is because the guy was black. You can't even call a thief a thief anymore (if they are black) without being called a racist. You can't say Michael Brown was a violent thug, because people don't hear those words, instead they hear racist words. I will always judge people by their actions, and Michael Brown was a piece of shit.

If only others had this same attitude for mass murderers. Instead its disaffected youth.

You understand the softer connotation.

Remember the teens accused of being the Central Park rapists were called all these things (thugs/animals) until they were found...

wait for it...

Innocent.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

ATOT never disappoints me. Another great thread.

It's tragically comic for sure.

Prediction: Wilson will not be indicted.
Consequence: Riots and destruction.
From the Usual Suspects: Well it's all about repression/the system is corrupt/it's expected (and implicitly approved) considering what's happened in our history... etc. Excuses galore and no sense of personal responsibility for actions, because evidently those who express these feelings seem to think rioters are inferior and cannot control themselves.

We shall see.

 

[cubby1223]

If only others had this same attitude for mass murderers. Instead its disaffected youth.

You understand the softer connotation.

Remember the teens accused of being the Central Park rapists were called all these things (thugs/animals) until they were found...

wait for it...

Innocent.

Except there is a confirmed video of his actions just prior to the main incident. Calling him a thief is because he thieved items from a store. It is documented. It is not disputed. Well, most do not dispute the video, a few pretend it never existed. Calling him violent is because he shoved the man whom he thieved items from. Calling him a thug is because he was shoved a man while committing a crime. Dictionary definition of Thug: a violent person, especially a criminal. The video may not be an accurate representation of the rest of Brown's life. But it absolutely was an accurate representation of that moment in his life.

And then on the other side of this equation you have mobs calling Wilson a racist murderer. Harassing him, his family, other officers, other government officials, families of them... What proof is that based on?

 

[brainhulk]

If you were reincarnated and came back as Michael Brown, would you kill yourself, or start stealing shit? Which one?

I would grow my armpit hair really really long

 

[moonbogg]

I would grow my armpit hair really really long

I suppose that would have to do then.

 

[shortylickens]

Gun Sales Skyrocket:


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/1...-sales-ahead-grand-jury-decision-in-ferguson/


Powder keg waiting to blow. now I'm a little scared. This isnt going to end well.

 

[highland145]

Gun Sales Skyrocket:


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/1...-sales-ahead-grand-jury-decision-in-ferguson/


Powder keg waiting to blow. now I'm a little scared. This isnt going to end well.

Gun sales...profit.
People defending themselves...about time.
Looters realizing they might get shot and stay home...damn shame.

 

[brianmanahan]

Ah, Dari.

If you're ever in a quandry and aren't sure what is true or correct in any given issue, you can almost universally have faith that whatever Dari, Dave McOwen, and bshole espouse, the opposite is pretty much guaranteed to be true.

It's like the anti "What would Jesus do?"

"WW(D), (Mc), (b)D?" ...and then do the opposite.

i believe that we can also derive the equation

d + mc + b = 0

 

[highland145]

i believe that we can also derive the equation

d + mc + b = 0

(d+mc)/b blows up the internet so be careful.

 

[Humpy]

Will these riots be streamed live in HD on the internets? Anyone know?

If it's just going to be tape delayed onto WorldStar I'll probably pass on this round.

 

[Mai72]

 

[Mai72]

Will these riots be streamed live in HD on the internets? Anyone know?

If it's just going to be tape delayed onto World Star I'll probably pass on this round.

I'm fear.

 

[Dari]

No one here is calling posters here racists. At least not I. My focus was on the police officer first and police in general. I simply said that they need to be reminded of who they serve. If anyone disagrees with me on that then they are a moron. Furthermore, people can view the protesters however they like, but when they start painting the entire African-American community as one monolithic group and start seeing things in "us vs them" theme, AND have the Klan backing them up with muscle, then you have to start to question your position. Do you really want to be in league with the Ku Klux Klan? Not I. But, if you still feel comfortable with being in agreement with Grand Wizards and continue to see blacks as "thugs" then there isn't much else to say...You've got problems.

For the record, I know cops. Lots of them. Over the years, whenever we have problems, they come to our place instead of us having to go to the precinct. I know how they think and they have no problem sharing it with me. Most are good human beings. Others just want to hurt people. All are very suspicious, especially of minorities.

 

[halik]

No one here is calling posters here racists. At least not I. My focus was on the police officer first and police in general. I simply said that they need to be reminded of who they serve. If anyone disagrees with me on that then they are a moron. Furthermore, people can view the protesters however they like, but when they start painting the entire African-American community as one monolithic group and start seeing things in "us vs them" theme, AND have the Klan backing them up with muscle, then you have to start to question your position. Do you really want to be in league with the Ku Klux Klan? Not I. But, if you still feel comfortable with being in agreement with Grand Wizards and continue to see blacks as "thugs" then there isn't much else to say...You've got problems.

For the record, I know cops. Lots of them. Over the years, whenever we have problems, they come to our place instead of us having to go to the precinct. I know how they think and they have no problem sharing it with me. Most are good human beings. Others just want to hurt people. All are very suspicious, especially of minorities.

You really mean blacks and "hispanics"*, right?

* poor spanish speaking people, not from spain, and even that depends on the convenience for the viewpoint you want to push (ie not George Zimmerman)

 

[CZroe]

Why did the cop pull his gun in the first place for a jaywalking incident?

Answer: He didn't. Michael Brown reached into Darren Wilson's patrol vehicle and tried to take it. Follow. You have your answers. Don't dismiss them just because you don't like them.

Really? The autopsy said Brown was going to take the gun? Or did Wilson add that?

I guess you missed this:

Forensic pathologist Dr. Judy Melinek said the hand wound was consistent with Brown reaching for the gun at the time he was shot. Melinek also noted that the autopsy did not support witnesses who claimed that Brown was shot while fleeing the crime scene or with his hands up, noting that the direction of the gunshot wound on Brown's forearm indicated that Brown's palms could not have been facing Wilson.

Don't pretend you haven't heard this little nugget either:

The autopsy found material “consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm” in a wound on Brown’s thumb. Melinek said this “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound.”

How can you claim ignorance of this while taking your stance on the issue of you don't even know the basics?!

No one here is calling posters here racists. At least not I. My focus was on the police officer first and police in general. I simply said that they need to be reminded of who they serve. If anyone disagrees with me on that then they are a moron. Furthermore, people can view the protesters however they like, but when they start painting the entire African-American community as one monolithic group and start seeing things in "us vs them" theme, AND have the Klan backing them up with muscle, then you have to start to question your position. Do you really want to be in league with the Ku Klux Klan? Not I. But, if you still feel comfortable with being in agreement with Grand Wizards and continue to see blacks as "thugs" then there isn't much else to say...You've got problems.

For the record, I know cops. Lots of them. Over the years, whenever we have problems, they come to our place instead of us having to go to the precinct. I know how they think and they have no problem sharing it with me. Most are good human beings. Others just want to hurt people. All are very suspicious, especially of minorities.

There you go again. The rioting is unjustified. My conclusion has nothing to do with their involvement. Your ATTEMPT to relate them is PURELY to associate their racism with ONE side of the issue, as if one goes hand in hand with the other. When you said "not I," you clearly lied. I'm not going to pick the wrong side of an issue to avoid appearances because some twerp wanted to imply racism. STFU.

 

[Dari]

Answer: He didn't. Michael Brown reached into Darren Wilson's patrol vehicle and tried to take it. Follow. You have your answers. Don't dismiss them just because you don't like them.


I guess you missed this:
Don't pretend you haven't heard this little nugget either:


How can you claim ignorance of this while taking your stance on the issue of you don't even know the basics?!



There you go again. The rioting is unjustified. My conclusion has nothing to do with their involvement. Your ATTEMPT to relate them is PURELY to associate their racism with ONE side of the issue, as if one goes hand in hand with the other. When you said "not I," you clearly lied. I'm not going to pick the wrong side of an issue to avoid appearances because some twerp wanted to imply racism. STFU.

Rioting is always unjustified. Protests are not.

 

[CZroe]

Rioting is always unjustified. Protests are not.

And what does that have to do with what I said? You said you weren't trying to associate the KKK with one side of the issue and I showed that you had no other reason for bringing it up. Is this how you always end conversation threads? Steering them away so it sounds like we were talking about something else?

 

[Ichinisan]

Rioting is always unjustified. Protests are not.

What about when protests are unjustified and the participants are willfully ignorant of the facts?

 

[Dari]

And what does that have to do with what I said? You said you weren't trying to associate the KKK with one side of the issue and I showed that you had no other reason for bringing it up. Is this how you always end conversation threads? Steering them away so it sounds like we were talking about something else?

Don't play dumb. I have no idea where you got the impression in my post that you quoted that I said rioting was justified. You said it was unjustified. And I agreed. I brought up the Klans because they were in the article I linked and they vowed to hurt protestors. For many in this thread, just like the Klansmen, protestors == rioters.

 

[Dari]

What about when protests are unjustified and the participants are willfully ignorant of the facts?

When is a protest unjustified? It's free speech.

 

[Ichinisan]

When is a protest unjustified? It's free speech.

I didn't say "illegal." I said "unjustified."

To use your own tactic: Are you saying that protest activities of the KKK are justified?

Hypothetical: Would it be "justified" to protest the freeing of an proven-innocent man who was maliciously and falsely charged with rape?

In this and many other protests, the protesters justify it to themselves by lying to themselves. They willfully ignore and distort the facts and only discuss with other like-minded people who will help solidify their current stance.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Try this: Don't treat all police with contempt and automatically conclude each one is a liar.

And that is the problem right there. You see cops as this one monolithic group. They aren't. It's extremely stupid.

The problem is that the police have consistently been caught lying, making racist comments, had officers fired for corruption (that involved racism), among other bullshit.

It's hard to separate one from the group when they basically present a unified facade of it that only breaks once they're basically forced to admit to it.

Look, Dari's a willfully ignorant lying sack of shit at best and a fucking scumbag piece of shit person at worst, but pretending like there's not a hell of a lot of reasons to take issue with the police in the St. Louis area (and several other places as that one guy on here and quite a few other threads has fairly well documented even if it only paints one picture) is just plain delusional and only does a disservice to the honest ones putting their lives on the line.

Answer: He didn't. Michael Brown reached into Darren Wilson's patrol vehicle and tried to take it. Follow. You have your answers. Don't dismiss them just because you don't like them.


I guess you missed this:
Don't pretend you haven't heard this little nugget either:


How can you claim ignorance of this while taking your stance on the issue of you don't even know the basics?!



There you go again. The rioting is unjustified. My conclusion has nothing to do with their involvement. Your ATTEMPT to relate them is PURELY to associate their racism with ONE side of the issue, as if one goes hand in hand with the other. When you said "not I," you clearly lied. I'm not going to pick the wrong side of an issue to avoid appearances because some twerp wanted to imply racism. STFU.

You started out right (he didn't pull his gun for a jaywalking incident). Unfortunately from there you present things as absolute fact when they're anything but. Follow, your "answers" are not the definitive facts you act like they are. They are the claims of one person. There are conflicting claims from other people.

That's just one alleged version of events. Perhaps you should take your own advice and not dismiss alternatives just because you don't like them?

I guess you missed this:

“I’m not saying that Brown going for the gun is the only explanation. I’m saying the officer said he was going for the gun and the right thumb wound supports that,” she said. “I have limited information. It could also be consistent with other scenarios. That’s the important thing. That’s why the witnesses need to speak to the grand jury and the grand jury needs to hear all the unbiased testimony and compare those statements to the physical evidence.”

Don't pretend you haven't heard this little nugget either:

Melinek added that the only statement she compared to the forensic evidence was that made by Wilson and that a number of other scenarios could also be possible, including Brown trying to protect himself or his hands for whatever reason being near the muzzle of Wilson’s gun.

How can you claim non ignorance of this while taking your stance on the issue of when you don't even know the basics?!

Graham, who also reviewed the autopsy report for the Post-Dispatch, told the NewsHour that the report showed an altercation took place at the car.”Whether or not it’s self-defense, you’ve got to look at all the accounts,” he said. “This report doesn’t fundamentally answer the question of whether at some point [Brown] had his hands up as witnesses have said, or whether he surrendered, or whether they were up in an aggressive posture.”

All we do know definitively based on the autopsy reports is that Brown was shot 6 times, once or twice was very likely close range, and that the other ones indicate he was facing Wilson when he was shot (with no definitive proof that he was charging him although there's evidence that his body was moving forward when he was shot in the forehead; he could have been shot in the head while falling due to the other shots or yes he could have been charging). Claiming it conclusively proves one version of events or the other is a straight up lie.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/michael-browns-official-autopsy-report-actually-reveal/

 

[CZroe]

Don't play dumb. I have no idea where you got the impression in my post that you quoted that I said rioting was justified. You said it was unjustified. And I agreed. I brought up the Klans because they were in the article I linked and they vowed to hurt protestors. For many in this thread, just like the Klansmen, protestors == rioters.

You really are an idiot. I made a statement that the riots were unjustified and you completely ignored everything else with this "where did I say they were?!" crap as if I ever said you said that. Get a clue. Respond to what I actually said instead of one statement that had nothing to do with it.

Oh, by the way: Rape and stealing is bad. This isn't an invitation for you to ignore everything else and respond to only that statement. "When did I ever say raping and stealing is OK?!" Why is any statement I make supposed to imply that you made the opposite? You will not be allowed to manipulate this discussion without being called on it.

 

[CZroe]

The problem is that the police have consistently been caught lying, making racist comments, had officers fired for corruption (that involved racism), among other bullshit.

It's hard to separate one from the group when they basically present a unified facade of it that only breaks once they're basically forced to admit to it.

Look, Dari's a willfully ignorant lying sack of shit at best and a fucking scumbag piece of shit person at worst, but pretending like there's not a hell of a lot of reasons to take issue with the police in the St. Louis area (and several other places as that one guy on here and quite a few other threads has fairly well documented even if it only paints one picture) is just plain delusional and only does a disservice to the honest ones putting their lives on the line.



You started out right (he didn't pull his gun for a jaywalking incident). Unfortunately from there you present things as absolute fact when they're anything but. Follow, your "answers" are not the definitive facts you act like they are. They are the claims of one person. There are conflicting claims from other people.

That's just one alleged version of events. Perhaps you should take your own advice and not dismiss alternatives just because you don't like them?

I guess you missed this:



Don't pretend you haven't heard this little nugget either:



How can you claim non ignorance of this while taking your stance on the issue of when you don't even know the basics?!



All we do know definitively based on the autopsy reports is that Brown was shot 6 times, once or twice was very likely close range, and that the other ones indicate he was facing Wilson when he was shot (with no definitive proof that he was charging him although there's evidence that his body was moving forward when he was shot in the forehead; he could have been shot in the head while falling due to the other shots or yes he could have been charging). Claiming it conclusively proves one version of events or the other is a straight up lie.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/michael-browns-official-autopsy-report-actually-reveal/

"The autopsy found material “supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun."
The key word is "supports" regardless of her incorrect wording choice two words later. If it was a known fact then it wouldn't need support.

Obviously, she meant claim instead of "fact," but that changes nothing. The other reports do not contradict it. They only withhold commentary and don't try to draw conclusions by letting the facts speak for themselves. The facts DO speak for themselves, and they speak to officer Wilson's version of the events. So far, absolutely everything except proven unreliable witness testimony speaks to it. How many othe black kids has Wilson shot at the window of his patrol vehicle? None? That doesn't sound like a good place for a racist, murderous, power-mad cop to commit his institutionalized sins, so why are we even imagining that Brown was trying to defend himself at the window? Occam's Razor.

 

[Ichinisan]

Try this: Don't treat all police with contempt and automatically conclude each one is a liar.

And that is the problem right there. You see blacks as this one monolithic group. They aren't. It's extremely stupid.

And that is the problem right there. You see cops as this one monolithic group. They aren't. It's extremely stupid.

The problem is that the police have consistently been caught lying, making racist comments, had officers fired for corruption (that involved racism), among other bullshit.

It's hard to separate one from the group when they basically present a unified facade of it that only breaks once they're basically forced to admit to it.

Look, Dari's a willfully ignorant lying sack of shit at best and a fucking scumbag piece of shit person at worst, but pretending like there's not a hell of a lot of reasons to take issue with the police in the St. Louis area (and several other places as that one guy on here and quite a few other threads has fairly well documented even if it only paints one picture) is just plain delusional and only does a disservice to the honest ones putting their lives on the line.

Oh. A "practice what you preach" admonishment that just re-emphasizes my own point. :hmm:

You imply that I pretended there's "not a hell of a lot of reasons to take issue with the police in the St. Louis area." I'm confused. Where did I do that?

Dari has jumped to the conclusion that Michael Brown is an angel (or gentle giant) and Darren Wilson is a corrupt thug/liar. Dari already reached that conclusion without considering the facts of this case / scenario. His conclusion is based on his opinion of cops in general. He made an ignorant statement about judging individuals as part of a larger group without considering the actions of that individual. He's being willfully ignorant about the individual actions of Michael Brown while saying everyone else is "racist" for believing that MB was a violent thief (the "violent thief" conclusion was based on video evidence of MB's own actions just moments before his death). At the same time, Darren Wilson is already "guilty" in Dari's mind. Just because he's a cop. "DW is a cop! That means he's a racist liar! Why would you believe the word of a racist / liar COP?!?"