RINOs fold like a wet noodles

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B

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
lawl. If you think Ryan is too far to the left then your idea of an ideal candidate is going to be on the absolute fringe of the right. Good luck with that.

Defunding (or even delaying) Obamacare was never going to happen with a Democratic Senate and Obama still in the White House. Anyone who has any rationality at all knows this. Wake the hell up.
 
M

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Balt said:
lawl. If you think Ryan is too far to the left then your idea of an ideal candidate is going to be on the absolute fringe of the right. Good luck with that.

Defunding (or even delaying) Obamacare was never going to happen with a Democratic Senate and Obama still in the White House. Anyone who has any rationality at all knows this. Wake the hell up.
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This is folding when you have leverage.

Lets see Obamacare gets no delay.

Obama gets his government reopened.

Obama gets sequester cuts rolled back.

Republicans get what?

If you are going to shut the government down, get something for it. Instead their national poll numbers sink like a rock. And they get less then they started with.

WTF was the point?


that's why these rino's need to be kicked out of office. They are total failures.
 
Ryan

Ryan

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
27,519
2
81
michal1980 said:
This is folding when you have leverage.

Lets see Obamacare gets no delay.

Obama gets his government reopened.

Obama gets sequester cuts rolled back.

Republicans get what?

If you are going to shut the government down, get something for it. Instead their national poll numbers sink like a rock. And they get less then they started with.

WTF was the point?


that's why these rino's need to be kicked out of office. They are total failures.
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Republicans get time to work out meaningful reform, not dabble with dead-end roads that go off cliffs. Social Security and Medicare reform are greater prizes......
 
M

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
and ryan is for amnesty. Time to work against this RINO. phony phony phony asshole. Worse then Obama.
 
B

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
michal1980 said:
This is folding when you have leverage.

Lets see Obamacare gets no delay.

Obama gets his government reopened.

Obama gets sequester cuts rolled back.

Republicans get what?

If you are going to shut the government down, get something for it. Instead their national poll numbers sink like a rock. And they get less then they started with.

WTF was the point?


that's why these rino's need to be kicked out of office. They are total failures.
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The thing is, I don't think they have leverage. A shutdown is bad for them. A default is bad for them. So what 'hostage' are they holding? Nothing. Everything is bad for both them and the Democrats, though Republicans will probably get blamed for it. That means Democrats actually have the leverage.

Neither party can actually afford to piss off the people with money in this country, and people with money don't actually want a shutdown or a debt default. Do they want government (particularly its regulations) to be trimmed back? Sure. Do they want the government to stop providing benefits to the employees that they are paying an unlivable minimum wage? Probably not.

In the end I think Republicans will get some concessions that they need to save face, and frankly I hope they do. Our spending is still unsustainable, particularly when it comes to healthcare. Mathematically speaking, cuts have to be made, though many Democrats deny this. But Republicans started with an untenable demand, which was to basically kill Obamacare. Even people who hate Obamacare know that its demise would never be approved with a Democratic Senate and President Obama still in office.
 
First

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
lol, you fell for a blatant lie, or at best premature, reading of the current negotiation from a right-wing rag.

Damn you suck at this stuff, OP.
 
woolfe9998

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,243
136
Where is this coming from other than breitbart.com? I can't see reference to it anywhere else.
 
M

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Balt said:
The thing is, I don't think they have leverage. A shutdown is bad for them. A default is bad for them. So what 'hostage' are they holding? Nothing. Everything is bad for both them and the Democrats, though Republicans will probably get blamed for it. That means Democrats actually have the leverage.

Neither party can actually afford to piss off the people with money in this country, and people with money don't actually want a shutdown or a debt default. Do they want government (particularly its regulations) to be trimmed back? Sure. Do they want the government to stop providing benefits to the employees that they are paying an unlivable minimum wage? Probably not.

In the end I think Republicans will get some concessions that they need to save face, and frankly I hope they do. Our spending is still unsustainable, particularly when it comes to healthcare. Mathematically speaking, cuts have to be made, though many Democrats deny this. But Republicans started with an untenable demand, which was to basically kill Obamacare. Even people who hate Obamacare know that its demise would never be approved with a Democratic Senate and President Obama still in office.
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Then what was the point of the shut down?

That's my problem with these RINO's, if you are going to do something, make sure you have a plan. Instead we get this stupidity. Hammered in the polls thanks to the LMSM, then beaten into submission by the democrats & Obama.

They lose support from the general public for the shut down. They lose support from the base for folding. What have then gained?

nothing. So why do it?

That's why they should be fired.
 
First

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
michal1980 said:
Then what was the point of the shut down?

That's my problem with these RINO's, if you are going to do something, make sure you have a plan. Instead we get this stupidity. Hammered in the polls thanks to the LMSM, then beaten into submission by the democrats & Obama.

They lose support from the general public for the shut down. They lose support from the base for folding. What have then gained?

nothing. So why do it?

That's why they should be fired.
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Wait, you think RINOs got the GOP into the shutdown? Holy shit, you're just plain stupid.
 
M

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
First said:
Wait, you think RINOs got the GOP into the shutdown? Holy shit, you're just plain stupid.
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no that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that if Boner and Lyan were true leaders they'd have an end game in mind. And if this is what they saw coming, and were true leaders, they wouldn't allow it to get to this point.
 
M

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
woolfe9998 said:
You do realize that we are talking about short terms extensions, AND that none of this has been agreed to yet, right? There is no deal right now. All that's happened is that they had a "constructive" talk.
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which means it can only get worse from here.
 
B

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
michal1980 said:
Then what was the point of the shut down?

That's my problem with these RINO's, if you are going to do something, make sure you have a plan. Instead we get this stupidity. Hammered in the polls thanks to the LMSM, then beaten into submission by the democrats & Obama.

They lose support from the general public for the shut down. They lose support from the base for folding. What have then gained?

nothing. So why do it?

That's why they should be fired.
Click to expand...

Well, I can't disagree with your most of your argument there. Their plan, from the beginning, was strategically flawed. I can only assume that the Republican leadership believed that Democrats were FAR more willing to make huge concessions than they actually were. That was a very serious error in judgment.
 
M

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Balt said:
Well, I can't disagree with your most of your argument there. Their plan, from the beginning, was strategically flawed. I can only assume that the Republican leadership believed that Democrats were FAR more willing to make concessions than they actually were. That was a very seriously lapse in judgment.
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Same thing happened last time... And yet the leaders are the same.

Off with these fools. Before you go to battle you better have a plan. Otherwise you look like an idiot.
 
kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,487
47,935
136
Looks like Obama deciding to wait on the GOTP's sense of self-preservation to kick in worked.

I'd love to know what's going through that hollow head of Boner's right now, just what was it that made him double back on the agreement he had with Reid back in June? Was it worth putting the country through a shut down, only to ultimately roll over here, now? Something tells me this deal isn't as nice as the one he reneged on (anyone know?)

I guess congrats Obama. Despite a lot of your critics deriding you as some kind of push over, it seems you again have the chutzpah or skill to shut them down and get what you want.

I haven't seen Rs tuck their tails between their legs like this since Obama tore them all a new one in person at that 2010 retreat in Baltimore. I'd prefer behavior like theirs being followed with pink slips, tar and feathers, but it's still nice to see.
 
IronWing

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
73,115
34,421
136
I don't know that I have ever listened to Obama's press secretary. He's a good one.

Carney had been asked about impressions among some of the Republican senators who met with Obama at the White House on Friday that the president was backing away from a short-term fix to reopen the government and extend its ability to borrow to pay for existing programs.

So what happened? a reporter asked. Did the NBC/Wall Street Journal poll showing the GOP at record-low approval ratings stiffen the White House’s spine?

“Were I still a reporter covering Congress and Republicans in Congress, as I once did, it's possible I could reach that conclusion,” Carney coyly said.
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From Yahoo News
 
B

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
IronWing said:
I don't know that I have ever listened to Obama's press secretary. He's a good one.
Carney had been asked about impressions among some of the Republican senators who met with Obama at the White House on Friday that the president was backing away from a short-term fix to reopen the government and extend its ability to borrow to pay for existing programs.

So what happened? a reporter asked. Did the NBC/Wall Street Journal poll showing the GOP at record-low approval ratings stiffen the White House’s spine?

“Were I still a reporter covering Congress and Republicans in Congress, as I once did, it's possible I could reach that conclusion,” Carney coyly said.
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From Yahoo News
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Ha. That's a bit too much honesty from a press secretary I think. In the end I don't think Obama will take the risk of pushing his position too far, though. The clock is ticking on the debt default, after all. I don't think he wants to see it happen.
 
W

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,549
1,130
126
So basically anyone who doesn't fall into lock stop with the tea nagger are now romps. Congrats on moving the conservative goal parts further right and the eventual demise of the GOP.
 
woolfe9998

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,242
14,243
136
Balt said:
Ha. That's a bit too much honesty from a press secretary I think. In the end I don't think Obama will take the risk of pushing his position too far, though. The clock is ticking on the debt default, after all. I don't think he wants to see it happen.
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I think you're right. I've participated in lots of negotiations in my career, and a lot of the strategy is about posturing. I think the press secretary's "honesty" is about that. He's saying, we're sitting on this great poll so don't expect us to move very much. However, how one postures and the reality of one's intentions are two different things.
 
shira

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
woolfe9998 said:
Where is this coming from other than breitbart.com? I can't see reference to it anywhere else.
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According to the Washington Post, Republicans are asking for a "fig leaf" - concessions on Obamacare. But why should the Democrats reward Republicans for doing what both sides really want? And under the new Republican plan, the debit limit would be raise only until the end of January, guaranteeing another round of blackmail in less than four months.

No, I'm afraid Obama really needs to swat this down. "No deal."

If the Republicans want to include some sort of language which requires good-faith negotiations (from BOTH sides, with NOTHING off the table - not Obamacare concessions and not tax increases), that would be fine. But asking for concessions from Obama while offering absolutely nothing in return is a non-starter.
 
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