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Rights group calls India's tsunami efforts "pathetic"

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Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Aimster

A person who says this:

Indians are not inherently superior to Pakistanis. They worked damned hard at getting there.

And many more idiotic statements doesn't deserve my time or day. This isn't an Indian board. You won't get the cheers you'd get there with that statement on here. Although you have your small number of supporters.

Pity, you could not see the stark wisdom of that statement. Not to mention that you left out the part where I indicate that Americans are superior to Indians for having built a better nation. I have four words for you - lying piece of sh!t.

You've got to be an idiot if you actually said India was better than America. And I didn't leave out that part. Why don't you post the entire statement then???

Strawman argument. When I said America is superior to India, it was not because I was afraid of saying that India was superior to America. I was merely stating fact. But you can't pick and choose your facts, mister. If America > India, then India > Pakistan. You are trying to construct an argument I never made so you can shoot it down.

Stop quoting fragments from other discussions. You arguments have no logic to stand upon.

I don't care if India > Pakistan or if India > America ???

WTF is up with you and your little buddy? I know most Indians don't sit around on anandtech fighting over India. They will laugh at you for talking so much about it to a bunch of nobodys.

Who cares??

India is great. You won't win anything if you even change the minds of people here.

why do you always whine and bitch about India? and yet accuse me of being paranoid of Iran?

I dislike Iran's govt. and its policy to support terrorism. thats it, get over it

*edit*

you have no right to tell anyone to not sit at Anandtech and fight over this stuff, you do this all the time, probably more than anyone else.

Whine and bitch about India? Show me proof. Why are you defending your little buddy?

I'm not pro anything. If I am pro anything show me proof. Right now.

I love to go after the people on this board who are closed minded and are full of hate. You are one of them. You dislike Iran more than Iranians dislike Iran yet you only "claim" to hate the government.
Yeahhh right.

believe what u wanna believe, i gave up even trying to remotely change a teeny weeny aspect of your thinking.

and Iran needs another revolution to straighten things out.

and hopefully the worlds wakes up and realizes that Iran is serious on getting nukes and they will regret the day when it occurs
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Aimster

A person who says this:

Indians are not inherently superior to Pakistanis. They worked damned hard at getting there.

And many more idiotic statements doesn't deserve my time or day. This isn't an Indian board. You won't get the cheers you'd get there with that statement on here. Although you have your small number of supporters.

Pity, you could not see the stark wisdom of that statement. Not to mention that you left out the part where I indicate that Americans are superior to Indians for having built a better nation. I have four words for you - lying piece of sh!t.

You've got to be an idiot if you actually said India was better than America. And I didn't leave out that part. Why don't you post the entire statement then???

Strawman argument. When I said America is superior to India, it was not because I was afraid of saying that India was superior to America. I was merely stating fact. But you can't pick and choose your facts, mister. If America > India, then India > Pakistan. You are trying to construct an argument I never made so you can shoot it down.

Stop quoting fragments from other discussions. You arguments have no logic to stand upon.

I don't care if India > Pakistan or if India > America ???

WTF is up with you and your little buddy? I know most Indians don't sit around on anandtech fighting over India. They will laugh at you for talking so much about it to a bunch of nobodys.

Who cares??

India is great. You won't win anything if you even change the minds of people here.

why do you always whine and bitch about India? and yet accuse me of being paranoid of Iran?

I dislike Iran's govt. and its policy to support terrorism. thats it, get over it

*edit*

you have no right to tell anyone to not sit at Anandtech and fight over this stuff, you do this all the time, probably more than anyone else.

Whine and bitch about India? Show me proof. Why are you defending your little buddy?

I'm not pro anything. If I am pro anything show me proof. Right now.

I love to go after the people on this board who are closed minded and are full of hate. You are one of them. You dislike Iran more than Iranians dislike Iran yet you only "claim" to hate the government.
Yeahhh right.

believe what u wanna believe, i gave up even trying to remotely change a teeny weeny aspect of your thinking.

and Iran needs another revolution to straighten things out.

and hopefully the worlds wakes up and realizes that Iran is serious on getting nukes and they will regret the day when it occurs

And you keep telling me this why? LoL. You say stupid things as if I am against them. I think you lack common sense majorly.

BTW you said you went to sleep. Did you wake up and come on anandtech? ok.

If you had your way the entire M.E would be one big giant sheet of glass.

What was your point of telling me about Iran right there? I think you love to make problems. That was uncalled for like everything else you say.
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Aimster

A person who says this:

Indians are not inherently superior to Pakistanis. They worked damned hard at getting there.

And many more idiotic statements doesn't deserve my time or day. This isn't an Indian board. You won't get the cheers you'd get there with that statement on here. Although you have your small number of supporters.

Pity, you could not see the stark wisdom of that statement. Not to mention that you left out the part where I indicate that Americans are superior to Indians for having built a better nation. I have four words for you - lying piece of sh!t.

You've got to be an idiot if you actually said India was better than America. And I didn't leave out that part. Why don't you post the entire statement then???

Strawman argument. When I said America is superior to India, it was not because I was afraid of saying that India was superior to America. I was merely stating fact. But you can't pick and choose your facts, mister. If America > India, then India > Pakistan. You are trying to construct an argument I never made so you can shoot it down.

Stop quoting fragments from other discussions. You arguments have no logic to stand upon.

I don't care if India > Pakistan or if India > America ???

WTF is up with you and your little buddy? I know most Indians don't sit around on anandtech fighting over India. They will laugh at you for talking so much about it to a bunch of nobodys.

Who cares??

India is great. You won't win anything if you even change the minds of people here.

why do you always whine and bitch about India? and yet accuse me of being paranoid of Iran?

I dislike Iran's govt. and its policy to support terrorism. thats it, get over it

*edit*

you have no right to tell anyone to not sit at Anandtech and fight over this stuff, you do this all the time, probably more than anyone else.

Whine and bitch about India? Show me proof. Why are you defending your little buddy?

I'm not pro anything. If I am pro anything show me proof. Right now.

I love to go after the people on this board who are closed minded and are full of hate. You are one of them. You dislike Iran more than Iranians dislike Iran yet you only "claim" to hate the government.
Yeahhh right.

believe what u wanna believe, i gave up even trying to remotely change a teeny weeny aspect of your thinking.

and Iran needs another revolution to straighten things out.

and hopefully the worlds wakes up and realizes that Iran is serious on getting nukes and they will regret the day when it occurs

And you keep telling me this why? LoL. You say stupid things as if I am against them. I think you lack common sense majorly.

BTW you said you went to sleep. Did you wake up and come on anandtech? ok.

dont change the subject and divert attention, tool

ha and you speak of common sense

 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Aimster

A person who says this:

Indians are not inherently superior to Pakistanis. They worked damned hard at getting there.

And many more idiotic statements doesn't deserve my time or day. This isn't an Indian board. You won't get the cheers you'd get there with that statement on here. Although you have your small number of supporters.

Pity, you could not see the stark wisdom of that statement. Not to mention that you left out the part where I indicate that Americans are superior to Indians for having built a better nation. I have four words for you - lying piece of sh!t.

You've got to be an idiot if you actually said India was better than America. And I didn't leave out that part. Why don't you post the entire statement then???

Strawman argument. When I said America is superior to India, it was not because I was afraid of saying that India was superior to America. I was merely stating fact. But you can't pick and choose your facts, mister. If America > India, then India > Pakistan. You are trying to construct an argument I never made so you can shoot it down.

Stop quoting fragments from other discussions. You arguments have no logic to stand upon.

I don't care if India > Pakistan or if India > America ???

WTF is up with you and your little buddy? I know most Indians don't sit around on anandtech fighting over India. They will laugh at you for talking so much about it to a bunch of nobodys.

Who cares??

India is great. You won't win anything if you even change the minds of people here.

why do you always whine and bitch about India? and yet accuse me of being paranoid of Iran?

I dislike Iran's govt. and its policy to support terrorism. thats it, get over it

*edit*

you have no right to tell anyone to not sit at Anandtech and fight over this stuff, you do this all the time, probably more than anyone else.

Whine and bitch about India? Show me proof. Why are you defending your little buddy?

I'm not pro anything. If I am pro anything show me proof. Right now.

I love to go after the people on this board who are closed minded and are full of hate. You are one of them. You dislike Iran more than Iranians dislike Iran yet you only "claim" to hate the government.
Yeahhh right.

believe what u wanna believe, i gave up even trying to remotely change a teeny weeny aspect of your thinking.

and Iran needs another revolution to straighten things out.

and hopefully the worlds wakes up and realizes that Iran is serious on getting nukes and they will regret the day when it occurs

And you keep telling me this why? LoL. You say stupid things as if I am against them. I think you lack common sense majorly.

BTW you said you went to sleep. Did you wake up and come on anandtech? ok.

dont change the subject and divert attention, tool

ha and you speak of common sense

tool? You want to start another Iran war with me so you bring up your opinion on Iran FOR NO REASON. LoL. Like I said don't worry that your Iranian girlfriend broke up with you. I'm sure you'll get another GF. You have a grudge on Iran for some reason unknown to me right now, but you sure love to bring it up more than I or anyone else.

You are arguing about Iran's government with someone whose family had close connects to the Shah of Iran. If you think I am going to jump at your stupid comments on Iran then that is one big joke. You can think I support Iran's government all you like. I don't care?
 
I could careless about India who is a very poor country that has very deep poverty. More poor people than all the people in the U.S combined and then some. Why the hell is India so great? It's nothing special at all. People are dirt poor, low education, low paying jobs. I don't care if it is changing. It was a major POS now it is a lesser major POS.

Why the hell should I care about Iran? Run by a bunch of fanatics who take away everything from their people. Steal the people's money for their own personal needs. Forcing religion on the people and taking away people's rights. No jobs in that country and not enough education in the country. Why the hell should I be interested in Iran? OOOO they make cars ... ooo they make weapons....oooo they have mercedes police cars. That's what makes a country great? LoL. yeah right.

If you really think India is superior to Iran you are a fool. If you think Iran is superior to India you are a fool. Every country in that region is a POS by my standards and anyone who defends any of them needs to go back to their own damn country if they love it so much.

The difference between you and I is I am an American. I will name my kids American names. I will proudly display the U.S flag and call it mine. Not some Iranian flag. I have nothing to do with Iran and I never want to. I am not even a strong Muslim defending Muslims here. I eat pork and I don't fast at all. I wasn't raised with the Quran period. I attack you because you hate Muslims. You attack Jews I'll go off on you too. Anyone who attacks anyone's religion is a fool.

You can continue to fight with me. You are just looking stupid and I bet most of the time you have no idea what you are fighting about. If you had issues with Iranians before I don't care. It is obvious you think this is some Iranian vs Indian thing going on here in the U.S. I could careless.

The way I see it is many Indians work at gas stations and many Iranians drive cabs. Many Many.

Educated? That part of the world will never be like the West. Maybe when my kids are 50, but not anytime soon. Hell even the south of the U.S is better than that part of the world.

Your don't even know what you argue about. You just love to fight with me because you think I am pro-Iranian. Congratulations on wasting your life.

You can defend your India all you like but why dont you keep it to yourself? Nobody gives a rats ass how good you think India is. In everyone's eyes India, Iran, SA, Pakistan, etc = POS. If it wasn't a POS then you'd see Americans going to India or Iran instead of them coming here.
 
If you really think India is superior to Iran you are a fool.

That's not really foolish. As it is right now I would say that India is better than Iran. One of these countries is run by crazy religious extremists and the other is a real democracy. End of discussion right there for me.
 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
If you really think India is superior to Iran you are a fool.

That's not really foolish. As it is right now I would say that India is better than Iran. One of these countries is run by crazy religious extremists and the other is a real democracy. End of discussion right there for me.

That doesn't make a country better than another country. If that is your arguement you might as well say India > Entire M.E
Or India > China

Hell Iraq is about to be a democratic country soon. Will that makes them better than SA? I think not. Look at Palestine. They are a democracy are they not? Yet they are by no means better than any of the M.E countries.

Even when Germany was run by Hitler one could not easily say U.S > Germany.

A country in my eyes is measured by the economy, education, poverty, etc. I could careless about the governments.

Does the government of the U.S influence my daily life? No not at all. I have my own life like everyone else.
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
If you really think India is superior to Iran you are a fool.

That's not really foolish. As it is right now I would say that India is better than Iran. One of these countries is run by crazy religious extremists and the other is a real democracy. End of discussion right there for me.

That doesn't make a country better than another country. If that is your arguement you might as well say India > Entire M.E
Or India > China

Hell Iraq is about to be a democratic country soon. Will that makes them better than SA? I think not.

Even when Germany was run by Hitler one could not easily say U.S > Germany.

A country in my eyes is measured by the economy, education, poverty, etc. I could careless about the governments.

Does the government of the U.S influence my daily life? No not at all. I have my own life like everyone else.

It depends on what you value more. Although I should have been more specific, when judging two countries such as Iran and India, I would definitely say that India is much more superior. One of my main reasons is simply the fact that Iran is run by crazy religious extremists and India is actually a democracy.
 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
If you really think India is superior to Iran you are a fool.

That's not really foolish. As it is right now I would say that India is better than Iran. One of these countries is run by crazy religious extremists and the other is a real democracy. End of discussion right there for me.

That doesn't make a country better than another country. If that is your arguement you might as well say India > Entire M.E
Or India > China

Hell Iraq is about to be a democratic country soon. Will that makes them better than SA? I think not.

Even when Germany was run by Hitler one could not easily say U.S > Germany.

A country in my eyes is measured by the economy, education, poverty, etc. I could careless about the governments.

Does the government of the U.S influence my daily life? No not at all. I have my own life like everyone else.

It depends on what you value more. Although I should have been more specific, when judging two countries such as Iran and India, I would definitely say that India is much more superior. One of my main reasons is simply the fact that Iran is run by crazy religious extremists and India is actually a democracy.

Is a Democratic Iraq > China in your eyes?

Forget Iran. Compare India to the Arab nations or even the Asian nations (- Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, China). There is nothing special about any of them.

We have our freedom here, but you see us crying about stuff like health care and social security. Freedom is great, but it doesn't solve any social problems at all.

People who arent free in those M.E countries dont wake up crying every morning wishing they were dead. They live their life and mind their own business like everyone else. For example I dislike Bush with all my heart and he is running this country. It doesn't change how I live my life.

Being poor and unemployed will change my life more so than being able to read what I want in the paper.
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Is a Democratic Iraq > China in your eyes?

Forget Iran. Compare India to the Arab nations or even the Asian nations (- Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, China). There is nothing special about any of them.

We have our freedom here, but you see us crying about stuff like health care and social security. Freedom is great, but it doesn't solve any social problems at all.

You have a hard time understanding an argument. Again, if I am comparing two countries like Iran and India then having one being run by crazy religious extremists and the other being the world's largest democracy is a huge and important factor. As I said earlier and you decided to ignore, I should have clarified my position - I am saying this in relation in a comparison of Iran and India.

Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. are all better than India and Iran.

OK, if you don't want your freedom and wish to be run by crazy religious extremists, then that might be fine with you. I would prefer not to be living under such conditions.

Your posts make no sense. A couple of posts up you are talking about how Iran is stealing the people's money, forcing religion on people, and taking away people's rights, etc. doesn't sound like desirable living conditions. You even basically admitted it yourself. However now you are backtracking and saying 'Freedom is overrated!!!'. Sure it is. :roll:

I would rather be crying about social security and nationalized healthcare (one of which I do not even want unless under a different type of tiered system and are hardly basic human rights) than crying about my government taking away my rights, severely dictating their religion onto me, etc. I suppose you would rather be oppresed than actually have the right to complain.
 
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Aimster
Is a Democratic Iraq > China in your eyes?

Forget Iran. Compare India to the Arab nations or even the Asian nations (- Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, China). There is nothing special about any of them.

We have our freedom here, but you see us crying about stuff like health care and social security. Freedom is great, but it doesn't solve any social problems at all.

You have a hard time understanding an argument. Again, if I am comparing two countries like Iran and India then having one being run by crazy religious extremists and the other being the world's largest democracy is a huge and important factor. As I said earlier and you decided to ignore, I should have clarified my position - I am saying this in relation in a comparison of Iran and India.

Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. are all better than India and Iran.

OK, if you don't want your freedom and wish to be run by crazy religious extremists, then that might be fine with you. I would prefer not to be living under such conditions.

Your posts make no sense. A couple of posts up you are talking about how Iran is stealing the people's money, forcing religion on people, and taking away people's rights, etc. doesn't sound like desirable living conditions. You even basically admitted it yourself. However now you are backtracking and saying 'Freedom is overrated!!!'. Sure it is. :roll:

I would rather be crying about social security and nationalized healthcare (one of which I do not even want unless under a different type of tiered system and are hardly basic human rights) than crying about my government taking away my rights, severely dictating their religion onto me, etc. I suppose you would rather be oppresed than actually have the right to complain.

You miss my point completley. I said freedom doesn't take away the social issues. Your arguement is saying that a democratic Iraq will be greater than a non democratic China. Nowhere did I say I don't value my freedom.

I was simplying saying the people of India suffer from poverty. They are the largest nation that suffers from deep poverty. Their freedom did not help solve this problem. Neither you nor I know how it is like to be poor and not have enough money to buy our kids food. To watch our kids die in front of our face because we don't have food. You've never been in that situation to know what you would rather want more. I know for one I would do anything to see my children have food.

I wasn't trying to contradict anything. I simply said the people who have dictators or are not free do not wake up crying and wishing they were dead. Maybe the only people who did this were Iraqis because they had nothing at all. I never suggested freedom is not great. What you see in Iran and the M.E is not all about not being free. Most of it has to do with the culture. For example look at SA and how the women dress. That is mainly culture. They are not forced to dress that extreme by no means. I don't think the people of China wake up every morning crying because of their government.

What I said about Iran is true, yet the people aren't supressed. They have bread and water on the table. They don't have anything else for that matter and their lifestyle is boring because everything has been taken away by the government. You wonder why the Iran regime still stands? Because people have their kabob and they have their little cars too.

A regime will fall when the people suffer and demand a change as a whole. Iran will collapse oneday because each day the current regime takes away more freedom from the people. As much as I hate Iran it is not like your mouth is taped shut in Iran and you are not allowed to say whatever you'd like. Iran's regime will not fall because of the lack of being able to say what you want or do what you want. It'll fall for other reasons. The religious laws are few and the main one is on women covering up and when you ask them about it they say they wouldn't do it, but they don't mind because it is part of the culture now (majority were born after the revolution). If anything I think that is the worst part of Iran how women have to cover up.

I would love to see a democratic Iran that is free from the mullahs, but in reality it is not going to happen soon at all. All these reports of it going down tomorrow, next year are BS. The mullahs are smart and know what they are doing because they learned from the Shah. They control everything and the people will not be able to takeover the current region unless something dramatic happens like the death of the head mullah.

Each year more jobs are added to the economy and the GDP keeps on growing. Each year Iran finds more and more ways of being self sufficient so it doesn't have to rely on anyone else. This is why the current regime is not going anywhere. If Iran's regime is to collapse the people need to suffer greatly.

Without the U.S's help, the Iranian people will not fight a bloody civil war. People can argue this with me and say Iran will change itself. Iran is not going to change anything. 10-20 years from now sure, but now no chance.
 
You miss my point completley. I said freedom doesn't take away the social issues. Your arguement is saying that a democratic Iraq will be greater than a non democratic China. Nowhere did I say I don't value my freedom.

My argument doesn't say that. My argument says that when you compare two countries of the level of Iran and India then the type of government and their leaders plays a huge role. Freedom from a tyrannical crazy religious extremist government is very valuable and that is something that Iran has going against it.

I was simplying saying the people of India suffer from poverty. They are the largest nation that suffers from deep poverty. Their freedom did not help solve this problem. Neither you nor I know how it is like to be poor and not have enough money to buy our kids food. To watch our kids die in front of our face because we don't have food. You've never been in that situation to know what you would rather want more. I know for one I would do anything to see my children have food.

The people of Iran suffer from poverty as well. Iran is a crazy religious extremist country that suffers from deep poverty. Look at their under poverty line percentages - it's crazy. 40% (CIA Factbook) of the country lives under the poverty line! Even India is lower than that.

wasn't trying to contradict anything. I simply said the people who have dictators or are not free do not wake up crying and wishing they were dead. Maybe the only people who did this were Iraqis because they had nothing at all. I never suggested freedom is not great. What you see in Iran and the M.E is not all about not being free. Most of it has to do with the culture. For example look at SA and how the women dress. That is mainly culture. They are not forced to dress that extreme by no means. I don't think the people of China wake up every morning crying because of their government.

China is not part of this argument. Iran is and you have openly stated that they steal the people's money, take away their rights, and enforce religion onto the people. That is a direct effect and you would feel that every damn day of your life.

What I said about Iran is true, yet the people aren't supressed. They have bread and water on the table. They don't have anything else for that matter and their lifestyle is boring because everything has been taken away by the government. You wonder why the Iran regime still stands? Because people have their kabob and they have their little cars too.

You have said that they have their rights taken away from them, have religion enforced upon them, etc. and they aren't 'supressed'? OK.. :roll:

A regime will fall when the people suffer and demand a change as a whole. Iran will collapse oneday because each day the current regime takes away more freedom from the people. As much as I hate Iran it is not like your mouth is taped shut in Iran and you are not allowed to say whatever you'd like. Iran's regime will not fall because of the lack of being able to say what you want or do what you want. It'll fall for other reasons. The religious laws are few and the main one is on women covering up and when you ask them about it they say they wouldn't do it, but they don't mind because it is part of the culture now (majority were born after the revolution). If anything I think that is the worst part of Iran how women have to cover up.

Not to mention the other crazy things happening there. Anyways, you've already admitted that they have their rights taken away from them and so on.

I would love to see a democratic Iran that is free from the mullahs, but in reality it is not going to happen soon at all. All these reports of it going down tomorrow, next year are BS. The mullahs are smart and know what they are doing because they learned from the Shah. They control everything and the people will not be able to takeover the current region unless something dramatic happens like the death of the head mullah.

I would love to see a democratic as well as secular Iran as well.

Each year more jobs are added to the economy and the GDP keeps on growing. Each year Iran finds more and more ways of being self sufficient so it doesn't have to rely on anyone else. This is why the current regime is not going anywhere. If Iran's regime is to collapse the people need to suffer greatly.

The same could be said of India as well as many other countries.
 
CIA factbook is flawed in many ways. I wouldn't trust that website with information about other countries economies. If you look at their GDP ranking is is totally off from what the rest of the world reports. The United Nations just came out with a report that said Iran does not suffer from deep poverty. I'm not saying Iran doesn't suffer from poverty. They have their number of poor people, but they do not suffer from deep poverty like many poor nations do. Iran is still a poor country and I am not suggesting it is rich at all.

I don't live in the M.E and if I did I wouldn't be affected by the religion forced on me. Like I said the only religion that plays a role in countries like Iran is directed at women's dress code. When women are asked about the dress code they openly say they do not mind it at all and find it to be part of their culture. If it doesn't bother the people how is that a "major" problem?

I'm not trying to debate with you so why do you keep assuming that I am? I'm trying to have a conversation with you not try to prove you wrong or right.

Supressed to me is what North Korea does to its people and what Iraq did to its people. The people are suffering. If you ask the Iranian people what they wish they could change they won't say "basic rights" they will tell you they wish there were more jobs and more things to do. If they really had a problem with their rights don't you think they would mention it?

You probably think I'm comparing India to Iran again, I am not. India is not supressed and neither was I suggesting India is supressed.
I'm talking about the current regime in Iran. I am not comparing anything to India in this post.

If you think I'm siding with the regime I am not. I am just telling you how I see it. Other people from Iran will blame every problem Iran has on the current regime. I blame it on the people and the regime.

I also don't think the people of SA are supressed or the other Arab kingdoms. The rulers are rich off the people's money, but they give most of it back to society. The women of SA might be supressed, but that seems to be part of the Arab culture as well.

Yeah I said Iranians have had their rights taken away. I'm not going to sit here and defend anything. The Iranian government made it clear that some people would not be allowed to run for office because it would not be in the best interest of the "Islamic" regime. They banned them from running and their names did not appear on the ballot.

When I said the mullahs play it smart I mean just that. They give rights to people when they want rights. They do not give them all the rights they want, but they give them enough to shut them up. 10+ years ago Iran had a religious police force that would go around making sure the rules of Islam were being followed and they would jail and beat people. The kids grew up and that police force is no longer there because if it was people would revolt. The kids now hold hands and go on the streets and the women have their headscarfs falling almost off their head. Men even wear shorts in Iran sometimes.

While Iran's regime gives them their little freedom they take away 1) Internet sites 2) Close newspapers and jail people 3) close hookah bars where men/women hang out 4) jail people (professors) who say bad things about Islam/revolution.

Sure they don't have freedom that you and I enjoy and I know they want it, but the main thing they want more than anything are jobs.

You and I were born with freedom we know how it is like. They don't know how it feels to truely fight for it like you and I would.
 
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Dari
I bitch and moan about AA? Where have you been? Face it, Untouchables and Dravadians in India have it far worse than any other native ethnic group in the world.

Learn to spell "Dravidians" before trying to use them as a stick to beat India with. Dravidians are doing just fine, thank you. I should know, coming from the Dravidian heartland of Tamil Nadu. The so-called Aryans form about 3% of the population in that part of the country. Both the ruling party and the opposition party in my homestate are named as Dravidian Progressive Parties (All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam and Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam, respectively). These parties have been ruling the State alternately since the 1960s. Virtually every prominent politician and Government official is a Dravidian as are most industrialists. You know jacksh!t about the politics of the region and it is pitifully obvious. The four southern states are among the most industrialized and most literate in India. The Dravidians are almost exclusively from this region and form the overwhelming majority here. Dravidians even have it better than their countrymen from other parts of the country. It didn't come easy, I admit, and nor is that progress always used in the best manner. But to a numbskull like you that is of no consequence.

I think you need to buy some new books on History and World Politics. You seem to be using references from 3500 years ago, which is supposedly the time of "Aryan Invasion" - which, I repeat, is a questionable theory at best and am confident will be disproven in the not too distant future. But I shouldn't expect any better from you having seen a few of your trolling posts in the past. How do you carry all that ignorance around in your head? Doesn't the vacuum hurt 😕


You trying to speak for Dravidians is like Charlton Heston trying to speak for African Americans, from a socio-economic point of view. The Dravidians may have it "good," but that point is relative compared to when/what. 3500 years ago? Fact is, the Dravidians and Untouchables have it so bad that they even have their own token leaders, and you uphold those leaders as a testament of India's progressive nature. Pathetic.

And what say you of the Untouchables?

By the way, the Aryans that currently rule India had little influence on India's culture/religion. They just took what they saw and called it theirs. If you look at the Caves of Elephanta, you'll see that not only were the original Indians black with flat nose and thick lips, but they also had wooly hair not unlike today's Africans and Dravidians. In fact, early India art is full of images of these people.
 
Originally posted by: Dari

You trying to speak for Dravidians is like Charlton Heston trying to speak for African Americans, from a socio-economic point of view. The Dravidians may have it "good," but that point is relative compared to when/what. 3500 years ago? Fact is, the Dravidians and Untouchables have it so bad that they even have their own token leaders, and you uphold those leaders as a testament of India's progressive nature. Pathetic.

And what say you of the Untouchables?

By the way, the Aryans that currently rule India had little influence on India's culture/religion. They just took what they saw and called it theirs. If you look at the Caves of Elephanta, you'll see that not only were the original Indians black with flat nose and thick lips, but they also had wooly hair not unlike today's Africans and Dravidians. In fact, early India art is full of images of these people.

Token leaders? As certified by Dari :roll: You are confusing the aboriginal tribes of Southern India with contemporary Dravidians and are completely unaware of the fact. You don't even know who you are arguing for. The Aryan Invasion Theory is disputed - unless you can provide conclusive proof, your arguments are meaningless.

All over the world indigenous peoples have been displaced by immigrants, invaders and conquerors. Yes, it has happened in India and not just the one time either. It has happened in the United States with Native Americans. It happened in Australia where the aborigines have suffered greatly. Your arguments conveniently overlook all of this to make it seem as if it takes place only in India. The United States, in fact, has a rather sordid history of displacing indigenous people from distant lands en masse!!!

I think India stacks up rather well against that kind of a track record in other parts of the world.

I have said my piece on untouchability. Just raising the question over and over again does not mean it has not been answered.

You trying to speak for Dravidians is like Charlton Heston trying to speak for African Americans, from a socio-economic point of view.

😕 So, are you suggesting that Charlton Heston has lived among the blacks, has lived their culture, can trace part of his racial roots to them, carries cultural symbols from their race and knows his sh!t? Neat!
 
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Dari

You trying to speak for Dravidians is like Charlton Heston trying to speak for African Americans, from a socio-economic point of view. The Dravidians may have it "good," but that point is relative compared to when/what. 3500 years ago? Fact is, the Dravidians and Untouchables have it so bad that they even have their own token leaders, and you uphold those leaders as a testament of India's progressive nature. Pathetic.

And what say you of the Untouchables?

By the way, the Aryans that currently rule India had little influence on India's culture/religion. They just took what they saw and called it theirs. If you look at the Caves of Elephanta, you'll see that not only were the original Indians black with flat nose and thick lips, but they also had wooly hair not unlike today's Africans and Dravidians. In fact, early India art is full of images of these people.

Token leaders? As certified by Dari :roll: You are confusing the aboriginal tribes of Southern India with contemporary Dravidians and are completely unaware of the fact. You don't even know who you are arguing for. The Aryan Invasion Theory is disputed - unless you can provide conclusive proof, your arguments are meaningless.

All over the world indigenous peoples have been displaced by immigrants, invaders and conquerors. Yes, it has happened in India and not just the one time either. It has happened in the United States with Native Americans. It happened in Australia where the aborigines have suffered greatly. Your arguments conveniently overlook all of this to make it seem as if it takes place only in India. The United States, in fact, has a rather sordid history of displacing indigenous people from distant lands en masse!!!

I think India stacks up rather well against that kind of a track record in other parts of the world.

I have said my piece on untouchability. Just raising the question over and over again does not mean it has not been answered.

You trying to speak for Dravidians is like Charlton Heston trying to speak for African Americans, from a socio-economic point of view.

😕 So, are you suggesting that Charlton Heston has lived among the blacks, has lived their culture, can trace part of his racial roots to them, carries cultural symbols from their race and knows his sh!t? Neat!


Well, I have no interest in continuing this debate since you will defend India no matter what. Nevertheless, you'll only get my respect if and when you are introspective enough of modern India and admit it's many failings. America may not be perfect but we have constant debates on the socio-economic fabric of our country on every level, as exemplified by this forum. I don't see that in India. That country may be a democracy, but it's gaping sores, cronyism, and rampant corruption make Communist China look more hospitable for different people. But you will defend India from outside criticism, despite her problems.

You, sir, are Wrong and Strong
 
you cant compare Iran and India, one is a tyranny and the other has been a democracy for over 50 years. end of discussion

in one country, people have the opinion to express themselves freely, in the other you get put behind bars

maybe if we compared Iran to N Korea or to S. Arabia, it would be more accurate

and you are definately correct, RabidMongoose, i would rather have freedom than free social programs
 
Originally posted by: Dari

Well, I have no interest in continuing this debate since you will defend India no matter what. Nevertheless, you'll only get my respect if and when you are introspective enough of modern India and admit it's many failings. America may not be perfect but we have constant debates on the socio-economic fabric of our country on every level, as exemplified by this forum. I don't see that in India. That country may be a democracy, but it's gaping sores, cronyism, and rampant corruption make Communist China look more hospitable for different people. But you will defend India from outside criticism, despite her problems.

You, sir, are Wrong and Strong

Yeah, it becomes irrefutable fact if you post it in bold characters 😛

Look Dari, read my posts - time and again I have stated that I do NOT ignore or trivialize the failings of my country. They are plenty, they are vast, they run deep and even when they come out, they still leave behind scars. But in a discussion in which India is being slammed without a shred of understanding or even the pretense of knowledge, I have no choice but to constantly keep shooting down the unfair and, even worse, rhetorical accusations against India. If you want to hear me criticize India, you would need to engage in a conversation that clearly shows your grasp or interest in the subject. I say interest, because it is just not realistic to expect everyone to educate themselves first before joining a discussion. And that would apply in equal measure to me too.

I don't see that in India. That country may be a democracy, but it's gaping sores, cronyism, and rampant corruption make Communist China look more hospitable for different people.

This is exactly the sort of uninformed criticism that I am fighting against. Let me state my disclaimers before posting the reality of the situation:

Disclaimers:

1. I know there is inequality prevalent throughout India.
2. I know there is a culture of cronyism, sycophancy and nepotism that exists in virtually every aspect of Indian society.
3. I know I would be hard-put to find a single, unmistakably incorrupt politician in India. I also know that a vast majority of the beaurocrats and government officials are corrupt and inefficient.
4. I know things aren't changing fast enough to correct all these wrongs.
5. I also know that this is not even close to being a comprehensive list of the ills afflicting Indian society.

Now to shoot down your ridiculous criticism:

There 15 national languages and over 3000 dialects spoken throughout India.

Virtually every state in India is demarcated along lingual lines.

In a country where the Hindus constitute 85% of the population, the Prime Minister comes from the Sikh community, the President is a Muslim (from the same group of "suffering" Dravidians :roll: ) and the Leader of the ruling party is a Caucasian Catholic born and raised in Italy.

Does that mean all is well in India? No, see my disclaimers. Does that mean you were talking out of your ass? Uh-oh!
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
If you really think India is superior to Iran you are a fool.

That's not really foolish. As it is right now I would say that India is better than Iran. One of these countries is run by crazy religious extremists and the other is a real democracy. End of discussion right there for me.

That doesn't make a country better than another country. If that is your arguement you might as well say India > Entire M.E
Or India > China

Hell Iraq is about to be a democratic country soon. Will that makes them better than SA? I think not.

Even when Germany was run by Hitler one could not easily say U.S > Germany.

A country in my eyes is measured by the economy, education, poverty, etc. I could careless about the governments.

Does the government of the U.S influence my daily life? No not at all. I have my own life like everyone else.

It depends on what you value more. Although I should have been more specific, when judging two countries such as Iran and India, I would definitely say that India is much more superior. One of my main reasons is simply the fact that Iran is run by crazy religious extremists and India is actually a democracy.

Is a Democratic Iraq > China in your eyes?

Forget Iran. Compare India to the Arab nations or even the Asian nations (- Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, China). There is nothing special about any of them.

We have our freedom here, but you see us crying about stuff like health care and social security. Freedom is great, but it doesn't solve any social problems at all.

People who arent free in those M.E countries dont wake up crying every morning wishing they were dead. They live their life and mind their own business like everyone else. For example I dislike Bush with all my heart and he is running this country. It doesn't change how I live my life.

Being poor and unemployed will change my life more so than being able to read what I want in the paper.

yes a democratic Iraq will be superior to China.

democracy always is better than supressive regimes, always.

who said freedom solves social problems?

the great thing about freedom is that we can debate and point out the things that the govt. is doing wrong etc.
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
If you really think India is superior to Iran you are a fool.

That's not really foolish. As it is right now I would say that India is better than Iran. One of these countries is run by crazy religious extremists and the other is a real democracy. End of discussion right there for me.

That doesn't make a country better than another country. If that is your arguement you might as well say India > Entire M.E
Or India > China

Hell Iraq is about to be a democratic country soon. Will that makes them better than SA? I think not.

Even when Germany was run by Hitler one could not easily say U.S > Germany.

A country in my eyes is measured by the economy, education, poverty, etc. I could careless about the governments.

Does the government of the U.S influence my daily life? No not at all. I have my own life like everyone else.

It depends on what you value more. Although I should have been more specific, when judging two countries such as Iran and India, I would definitely say that India is much more superior. One of my main reasons is simply the fact that Iran is run by crazy religious extremists and India is actually a democracy.

Is a Democratic Iraq > China in your eyes?

Forget Iran. Compare India to the Arab nations or even the Asian nations (- Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, China). There is nothing special about any of them.

We have our freedom here, but you see us crying about stuff like health care and social security. Freedom is great, but it doesn't solve any social problems at all.

People who arent free in those M.E countries dont wake up crying every morning wishing they were dead. They live their life and mind their own business like everyone else. For example I dislike Bush with all my heart and he is running this country. It doesn't change how I live my life.

Being poor and unemployed will change my life more so than being able to read what I want in the paper.

yes a democratic Iraq will be superior to China.

democracy always is better than supressive regimes, always.

who said freedom solves social problems?

the great thing about freedom is that we can debate and point out the things that the govt. is doing wrong etc.

I agree with you. I wish the world would be democratic. All of it.
 
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Dari

Well, I have no interest in continuing this debate since you will defend India no matter what. Nevertheless, you'll only get my respect if and when you are introspective enough of modern India and admit it's many failings. America may not be perfect but we have constant debates on the socio-economic fabric of our country on every level, as exemplified by this forum. I don't see that in India. That country may be a democracy, but it's gaping sores, cronyism, and rampant corruption make Communist China look more hospitable for different people. But you will defend India from outside criticism, despite her problems.

You, sir, are Wrong and Strong

Yeah, it becomes irrefutable fact if you post it in bold characters 😛

Look Dari, read my posts - time and again I have stated that I do NOT ignore or trivialize the failings of my country. They are plenty, they are vast, they run deep and even when they come out, they still leave behind scars. But in a discussion in which India is being slammed without a shred of understanding or even the pretense of knowledge, I have no choice but to constantly keep shooting down the unfair and, even worse, rhetorical accusations against India. If you want to hear me criticize India, you would need to engage in a conversation that clearly shows your grasp or interest in the subject. I say interest, because it is just not realistic to expect everyone to educate themselves first before joining a discussion. And that would apply in equal measure to me too.

I don't see that in India. That country may be a democracy, but it's gaping sores, cronyism, and rampant corruption make Communist China look more hospitable for different people.

This is exactly the sort of uninformed criticism that I am fighting against. Let me state my disclaimers before posting the reality of the situation:

Disclaimers:

1. I know there is inequality prevalent throughout India.
2. I know there is a culture of cronyism, sycophancy and nepotism that exists in virtually every aspect of Indian society.
3. I know I would be hard-put to find a single, unmistakably incorrupt politician in India. I also know that a vast majority of the beaurocrats and government officials are corrupt and inefficient.
4. I know things aren't changing fast enough to correct all these wrongs.
5. I also know that this is not even close to being a comprehensive list of the ills afflicting Indian society.

Now to shoot down your ridiculous criticism:

There 15 national languages and over 3000 dialects spoken throughout India.

Virtually every state in India is demarcated along lingual lines.

In a country where the Hindus constitute 85% of the population, the Prime Minister comes from the Sikh community, the President is a Muslim (from the same group of "suffering" Dravidians :roll: ) and the Leader of the ruling party is a Caucasian Catholic born and raised in Italy.

Does that mean all is well in India? No, see my disclaimers. Does that mean you were talking out of your ass? Uh-oh!


I'm glad you see the many problems in India, now do something about it.

Second, the OP was reporting a situation on the ground. For you to defend the problems you yourself see simply because it's reported by a foreigner is wrong. Next time, you should report the good and bad things that happen in your mother country before any foreigner does. At the very least, it'll make you look more concerned.

Third, the background of the cast of characters in power (you listed) is similar to the cast of characters in the Bush Administration, right? Yet, people complain that it's too one-sided and many of those colorful people are masking the real power behind the crown. Tell me, is that the same situation in India's leadership council?

EDIT: Many Dravidians are Catholic and Muslim simply because of the amount of oppression they've gotten when they were Hindus. They switched sides because it sucked to be on the low end of the ladder in a caste society.
 
Originally posted by: Aimster
CIA factbook is flawed in many ways. I wouldn't trust that website with information about other countries economies. If you look at their GDP ranking is is totally off from what the rest of the world reports. The United Nations just came out with a report that said Iran does not suffer from deep poverty. I'm not saying Iran doesn't suffer from poverty. They have their number of poor people, but they do not suffer from deep poverty like many poor nations do. Iran is still a poor country and I am not suggesting it is rich at all.

Then please link to this report. As it is right now, Iran suffers from deep poverty.

I don't live in the M.E and if I did I wouldn't be affected by the religion forced on me. Like I said the only religion that plays a role in countries like Iran is directed at women's dress code. When women are asked about the dress code they openly say they do not mind it at all and find it to be part of their culture. If it doesn't bother the people how is that a "major" problem?

How do you know if it doesn't bother anyone? In addition, I highly doubt that this is the only restriction.

I'm not trying to debate with you so why do you keep assuming that I am? I'm trying to have a conversation with you not try to prove you wrong or right.

A conversation where there is a disagreement in a point.

Supressed to me is what North Korea does to its people and what Iraq did to its people. The people are suffering. If you ask the Iranian people what they wish they could change they won't say "basic rights" they will tell you they wish there were more jobs and more things to do. If they really had a problem with their rights don't you think they would mention it?

Are you trying to tell me that there are no Iranians are are against the government or some of its actions? Good luck.

You probably think I'm comparing India to Iran again, I am not. India is not supressed and neither was I suggesting India is supressed.
I'm talking about the current regime in Iran. I am not comparing anything to India in this post.

That's nice, but it comes from a comparison of India and Iran that I made.

If you think I'm siding with the regime I am not. I am just telling you how I see it. Other people from Iran will blame every problem Iran has on the current regime. I blame it on the people and the regime.

I also don't think the people of SA are supressed or the other Arab kingdoms. The rulers are rich off the people's money, but they give most of it back to society. The women of SA might be supressed, but that seems to be part of the Arab culture as well.

We'll have to disagree on that.

Yeah I said Iranians have had their rights taken away. I'm not going to sit here and defend anything. The Iranian government made it clear that some people would not be allowed to run for office because it would not be in the best interest of the "Islamic" regime. They banned them from running and their names did not appear on the ballot.

When I said the mullahs play it smart I mean just that. They give rights to people when they want rights. They do not give them all the rights they want, but they give them enough to shut them up. 10+ years ago Iran had a religious police force that would go around making sure the rules of Islam were being followed and they would jail and beat people. The kids grew up and that police force is no longer there because if it was people would revolt. The kids now hold hands and go on the streets and the women have their headscarfs falling almost off their head. Men even wear shorts in Iran sometimes.

While Iran's regime gives them their little freedom they take away 1) Internet sites 2) Close newspapers and jail people 3) close hookah bars where men/women hang out 4) jail people (professors) who say bad things about Islam/revolution.

Sure they don't have freedom that you and I enjoy and I know they want it, but the main thing they want more than anything are jobs.

You and I were born with freedom we know how it is like. They don't know how it feels to truely fight for it like you and I would.

It truly sounds like a horrible situation and that is why that is a massive negative towards Iran.
 
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