Richest Americans? Income Doubled as Tax Rate Slashed

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JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
OK - the basic premise of this article is bunk.

"Jan. 30 (Bloomberg) -- The average tax rate paid by the richest 400 Americans fell by a third to 17.2 percent through the first six years of the Bush administration and their average income doubled to $263.3 million, new IRS data show. "

YR2000 Average AGI = 173M
YR2006 Average AGI = 263M

YR2000 Average income tax rate = 22.85%
YR2006 Average income tax rate = 17.17
A reduction of one QUARTER, not third.

Me thinks the person who wrote this article is intentionally distorting facts.

lol he did the math wrong. He did delta divide by 17.17 instead of delta divide by 22.85%. Not shocked though coming from a writer.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: venkman
Tell me again why I'm paying 35% and they are paying 17%?
You are paying 35% of your entire income in taxes??? I find that hard to believe.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Show me one poor person in the US, then compare him to the poor person globally.
Show me one rich person in the US, then compare him to the rich person globally.
 
Dec 10, 2005
29,635
15,202
136
Originally posted by: JS80
Show me one poor person in the US, then compare him to the poor person globally.

That's irrelevant. It's all about relative poverty.

On a global scale, poverty and extreme poverty are living under $2 and $1 a day, respectively. So yes, poor people in Africa are much worse off than in the US, but that doesn't mean we should tell our poor to "suck it up, they could be living in Africa."
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.
They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
I just got pwned.

Now I'm going to attempt to divert away from the response with a red herring question.
Fixed for accuracy.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.
They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

In fact they often do not (pay federal income taxes). Those bold numbers are taxable income, and it's quite possible to have income but not taxable income. It's also possible to have taxable income but receive tax credits that offset all or more than all of the taxes you would have owed.

Of course they still pay social security taxes, sales taxes, property taxes (directly or indirectly). Those taxes are a significant burden for a poor person with little disposable income.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.
They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
I just got pwned.

Now I'm going to attempt to divert away from the response with a red herring question.
Fixed for accuracy.
If you had any accuracy you would have answered my last question. You owned yourself by avoiding it.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.
They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
In fact they often do not (pay federal income taxes). Those bold numbers are taxable income, and it's quite possible to have income but not taxable income. It's also possible to have taxable income but receive tax credits that offset all or more than all of the taxes you would have owed.
You're going to have really convince me that having $5 of taxable income is not considered poor.

Of course they still pay social security taxes, sales taxes, property taxes (directly or indirectly). Those taxes are a significant burden for a poor person with little disposable income.
I didn't take it there because I understood this discussion was only about federal taxes.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.
They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
I just got pwned.

Now I'm going to attempt to divert away from the response with a red herring question.
Fixed for accuracy.
If you had any accuracy you would have answered my last assertion. You owned yourself by avoiding it.
Fixed again.

And it was responded to, but in case you missed it, here it is again for you.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: spidey07
Why no response to the article being full of shit and bad math?
Because the article and OP failed miserably?

Just a wild guess.

Yeah. Don't let facts get in the way of those evil rich!

What's even more funny is looking at the IRS data and seeing how it didn't change all the much. The article uses income (not adjusted for inflation) and compares with adjusted for inflation income and taxes.

It's full of shit and bad math.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.
They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
I just got pwned.

Now I'm going to attempt to divert away from the response with a red herring question.
Fixed for accuracy.
If you had any accuracy you would have answered my last assertion. You owned yourself by avoiding it.
Fixed again.

And it was responded to, but in case you missed it, here it again for you.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
It was a question. It ended in a question mark. Allow me to help you out:

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"

You haven't actually responded to that question yet. You keep trying to dance around around it, but you have done nothing towards providing an answer.

Answer the question.

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.
They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
I just got pwned.

Now I'm going to attempt to divert away from the response with a red herring question.
Fixed for accuracy.
If you had any accuracy you would have answered my last assertion. You owned yourself by avoiding it.
Fixed again.

And it was responded to, but in case you missed it, here it again for you.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
I'll repeat my red herring question in hopes of diverting away from my dubious assertion.
:laugh:
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: JS80
Show me one poor person in the US, then compare him to the poor person globally.
That's irrelevant. It's all about relative poverty.

On a global scale, poverty and extreme poverty are living under $2 and $1 a day, respectively. So yes, poor people in Africa are much worse off than in the US, but that doesn't mean we should tell our poor to "suck it up, they could be living in Africa."
"Suck it up Richie Rich, you could be living in Africa."

:laugh:
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.
They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
I just got pwned.

Now I'm going to attempt to divert away from the response with a red herring question.
Fixed for accuracy.
If you had any accuracy you would have answered my last assertion. You owned yourself by avoiding it.
Fixed again.

And it was responded to, but in case you missed it, here it again for you.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
I'll repeat my red herring question in hopes of diverting away from my dubious assertion.
:laugh:
Thanks for essentially tapping out. I knew you couldn't provide an honest answer and would have to resort to stupidity instead.
 

AFMatt

Senior member
Aug 14, 2008
248
0
0
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!
The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.
They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf
I just got pwned.

Now I'm going to attempt to divert away from the response with a red herring question.
Fixed for accuracy.
If you had any accuracy you would have answered my last assertion. You owned yourself by avoiding it.
Fixed again.

And it was responded to, but in case you missed it, here it is again for you.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

Maybe a more correct assertion would be MOST poor do not pay any taxes. There is always an exception, and some people (likely single, without kids) pulling in a low income obviously pay a hundred bucks or so a year in taxes. I can say with certainty, however, many people who aren't considered "poor" by our standards get back far more than they paid in, without any funny math.
 
Dec 10, 2005
29,635
15,202
136
Originally posted by: AFMatt
Maybe a more correct assertion would be MOST poor do not pay any taxes. There is always an exception, and some people (likely single, without kids) pulling in a low income obviously pay a hundred bucks or so a year in taxes. I can say with certainty, however, many people who aren't considered "poor" by our standards get back far more than they paid in, without any funny math.

Any data to support this assertion?

What about sales taxes, FICA taxes, etc...?
 

AFMatt

Senior member
Aug 14, 2008
248
0
0
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: AFMatt
Maybe a more correct assertion would be MOST poor do not pay any taxes. There is always an exception, and some people (likely single, without kids) pulling in a low income obviously pay a hundred bucks or so a year in taxes. I can say with certainty, however, many people who aren't considered "poor" by our standards get back far more than they paid in, without any funny math.

Any data to support this assertion?

What about sales taxes, FICA taxes, etc...?

Sales tax????
FICA is part of your tax filing, which is what I am talking about. Take a married couple, with about $30k or so income, with a child. After standard deductions, child tax credit, and EIC you will see someone who paid about $4700 in federal taxes getting back around $6000. And that doesn't even include child care credit for those who use daycare. Fill it all out on the forms, and you will see what I mean.