Richest Americans? Income Doubled as Tax Rate Slashed

[JD50]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!

The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.

They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

I just got pwned.

Now I'm going to attempt to divert away from the response with a red herring question.

Fixed for accuracy.

If you had any accuracy you would have answered my last assertion. You owned yourself by avoiding it.

Fixed again.

And it was responded to, but in case you missed it, here it again for you.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

It was a question. It ended in a question mark. Allow me to help you out:

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"

You haven't actually responded to that question yet. You keep trying to dance around around it, but you have done nothing towards providing an answer.

Answer the question.

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"

I don't know why you bother, apparently her209 has never actually paid taxes before, or if he has, he's an idiot. Maybe he should go down to H&R Block and ask them what a deduction is, and how it can help you avoid paying the vast majority of your taxes especially if you don't make much to begin with.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: ericlp
Jan. 30 (Bloomberg) -- The average tax rate paid by the richest 400 Americans fell by a third to 17.2 percent through the first six years of the Bush administration and their average income doubled to $263.3 million, new IRS data show.

The 17.2 percent tax rate in 2006 was the lowest since the IRS began tracking the 400 largest taxpayers in 1992, although the richest 400 Americans paid more tax on an inflation-adjusted basis than any year since 2000.

The drop from 2001?s tax rate of 22.9 percent was due largely to ex-President George W. Bush?s push to cut tax rates on most capital gains to 15 percent in 2003.


So tell me again, why we should bail out these assholes?


edit:

Link

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...=aOTRqZpdyxz4&refer=us

If the tax cuts allowed them to double their income (average) and pay an additional 12 million in income tax (average) , I don't see where the problem is.

 

[tm37]

I for one do not think we should be doing the bailouts.

There needs to be a recalibration of the system.

People seem to be under the impression that when a company goes bankrupt the assets disappear when that is clearly not the case.

Let's say that wells Fargo goes belly up. There are a lot of assets that will be bought and if you mortgage is with wells Fargo you will simply right the check to someone else. anything under 100K is insured. It will hurt a lot of people yes but it will be like pulling off a band-aid. Do it fast.

As for as the hatred against the rich, I this it is envy a lot of it.

Remember people at the poverty line are getting can afford many things that as a child we did not have.

Cell phone, cable TV, 2 car families. much of this is not necessary to sustain life. However we have been sold a bill of goods in the thinking that we deserve things as apposed to we need to earn them.

 

[bbdub333]

Originally posted by: her209

:laugh:

How many times are you going to fall on your face in one thread?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Corn
Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doesn't matter, PUNISH THE POOR!!!!!!!!!!!!

The poor don't pay taxes in the first place.

They don't?
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

I just got pwned.

Now I'm going to attempt to divert away from the response with a red herring question.

Fixed for accuracy.

If you had any accuracy you would have answered my last assertion. You owned yourself by avoiding it.

Fixed again.

And it was responded to, but in case you missed it, here it again for you.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

It was a question. It ended in a question mark. Allow me to help you out:

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"

You haven't actually responded to that question yet. You keep trying to dance around around it, but you have done nothing towards providing an answer.

Answer the question.

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"

I don't know why you bother, apparently her209 has never actually paid taxes before, or if he has, he's an idiot. Maybe he should go down to H&R Block and ask them what a deduction is, and how it can help you avoid paying the vast majority of your taxes especially if you don't make much to begin with.

Yeah, between deductions and then credits - no "poor" person should have any net income tax liability.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: JD50
I don't know why you bother, apparently her209 has never actually paid taxes before, or if he has, he's an idiot.

I pay taxes every year and will be paying come April 2009.

Maybe he should go down to H&R Block and ask them what a deduction is, and how it can help you avoid paying the vast majority of your taxes especially if you don't make much to begin with.

Grow up.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"

You haven't actually responded to that question yet. You keep trying to dance around around it, but you have done nothing towards providing an answer.

Answer the question.

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"

Ever compared the percentage of taxes paid to total net worth and income?

Didn't think so ...

 

[Wheezer]

so the richest 400 Americans did not pay their "fair share" of taxes.

What about all the others

-Baseball players
-Football players
-Basketball players
-Movie stars
-Producers
-Directors
-Movie studios
-College coaches
-Pro Coaches

just to name a few, do you all think they pay their "fair share" of taxes?

The truth is NO ONE pays their "fair share"...how many make donations to charity do people make, not for the good it will do, but for the tax write off?...are they paying their "fair share"?

all the ebay sellers are they reporting all their income and paying their "fair share"?

Did you buy anything online?...did you report the purchase for the purpose of use tax assesment for making online purchases?.....if you did not you did not pay your "fair share".

we don't care that some baseball player is going to get 150 zillion dollars for a contract of 5 years.

but does anyone stop to ask if he paid his taxes?....nope......and he probably didn't, that is what a good accountant is for. But that is ok because well, that's entertainment and he deserves if for all his hard work of playing the game....but these 400...well that's just fucking outrageous. :disgust:

 

[maddogchen]

damn they only paid 17.2? I paid....15.8 in taxes plus another 4.2 % to the state


need to find more deductions....like a home

 

[Jhhnn]

Nice attempted duh-version, wheezer. cheating on taxes is entirely different than buying politicians to create the sort of tax structure that benefits the wealthy, and anybody with half a brain realizes it.

The current tax structure is regressive within the top 1%, which is extremely unfair to those at the lower end of it. It means a family earning $300K pays a higher rate than a family earning $300M in many cases, which is indefensible.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Nice attempted duh-version, wheezer. cheating on taxes is entirely different than buying politicians to create the sort of tax structure that benefits the wealthy, and anybody with half a brain realizes it.

The current tax structure is regressive within the top 1%, which is extremely unfair to those at the lower end of it. It means a family earning $300K pays a higher rate than a family earning $300M in many cases, which is indefensible.

no see....this is all about paying the "fair share" of taxes is it not?

I mean that is what this thread is about right?

That too many rich people are not paying their fair share...and because they are not the rest of us must compensate...right?

You cannot seriously think that if the top 400 paid their fair share we would be all hunky dory.....the fact is I just listed a shit load of people who are not paying their fair share either...so why is it ok to jump all over the top 1% who don't want to pay any more than they have to just like every other American who pays taxes and leave the rest of the rich who you pine over like your favorite stars, your favorite sports idols your favorite directors go?

chances are if you add up how much they skimp on their taxes it will be damn close to the top 1%.

Hell everybody I listed probably pays less in taxes than your 300k family....but that is ok isn't it.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
so the richest 400 Americans did not pay their "fair share" of taxes.

What about all the others

-Baseball players
-Football players
-Basketball players
-Movie stars
-Producers
-Directors
-Movie studios
-College coaches
-Pro Coaches

just to name a few, do you all think they pay their "fair share" of taxes?

The truth is NO ONE pays their "fair share"...how many make donations to charity do people make, not for the good it will do, but for the tax write off?...are they paying their "fair share"?

all the ebay sellers are they reporting all their income and paying their "fair share"?

Did you buy anything online?...did you report the purchase for the purpose of use tax assesment for making online purchases?.....if you did not you did not pay your "fair share".

we don't care that some baseball player is going to get 150 zillion dollars for a contract of 5 years.

but does anyone stop to ask if he paid his taxes?....nope......and he probably didn't, that is what a good accountant is for. But that is ok because well, that's entertainment and he deserves if for all his hard work of playing the game....but these 400...well that's just fucking outrageous. :disgust:

You're arguing tax evasion, he's arguing structure of the tax code. Two totally different things.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Wheezer
so the richest 400 Americans did not pay their "fair share" of taxes.

What about all the others

-Baseball players
-Football players
-Basketball players
-Movie stars
-Producers
-Directors
-Movie studios
-College coaches
-Pro Coaches

just to name a few, do you all think they pay their "fair share" of taxes?

The truth is NO ONE pays their "fair share"...how many make donations to charity do people make, not for the good it will do, but for the tax write off?...are they paying their "fair share"?

all the ebay sellers are they reporting all their income and paying their "fair share"?

Did you buy anything online?...did you report the purchase for the purpose of use tax assesment for making online purchases?.....if you did not you did not pay your "fair share".

we don't care that some baseball player is going to get 150 zillion dollars for a contract of 5 years.

but does anyone stop to ask if he paid his taxes?....nope......and he probably didn't, that is what a good accountant is for. But that is ok because well, that's entertainment and he deserves if for all his hard work of playing the game....but these 400...well that's just fucking outrageous. :disgust:

You're arguing tax evasion, he's arguing structure of the tax code. Two totally different things.

2 sides of the same coin....the tax code is written so people can easily evade taxes.....what is the difference WHY you pay less whether it's because your filthy rich and the tax code is in your favor OR the tax code is written so that you can take bullshit deductions and pay less taxes....bottom line is you are not paying taxes on money you earned that you SHOULD pay taxes on.

So what is the difference?

 

[Jhhnn]

Well, Wheezer, putting words in other people's mouths is one of the last resorts of the argumentatively challenged, along with ad hom attacks.

You'll notice that I pointed out that taxes are regressive in the top 1%- you didn't dispute that. what I pointed out applies to anybody who takes in huge incomes, who lives in the top 1%, who pays lower taxes than that theoretical family making $300K/yr.

Nor did I claim that anybody cheated. Hell, tax rates are so low for top earners at the present time that they're dragging out income they've hidden for years, paying taxes on it. They're unwinding their cheats, if anything.

Hey- they paid for it, right? They funded the rightwing thinktanks that formulated the propaganda and bought off the rightwing politicians to have their way. It's all legal, even if it is completely scurrilous, no matter what their apologists have to say...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Nice attempted duh-version, wheezer. cheating on taxes is entirely different than buying politicians to create the sort of tax structure that benefits the wealthy, and anybody with half a brain realizes it.

The current tax structure is regressive within the top 1%, which is extremely unfair to those at the lower end of it. It means a family earning $300K pays a higher rate than a family earning $300M in many cases, which is indefensible.

It's even more regressive when you consider excise, sales, property, SS etc.

The super rich don't even notice those taxes, hell one stops being assessed entirely at ~100K of income, while everyone else feels them disproportionately.

If you break every tax out from utility bills to hidden ones like in a bottle of whisky to federal most middle & upper middle class people pay over 50%.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
damn they only paid 17.2? I paid....15.8 in taxes plus another 4.2 % to the state


need to find more deductions....like a home

Well, if you can honestly afford one, buying a home, and subsequently deducting the interest paid, will more than likely drop you near or below that 17.2% mark (TOTAL!!)... plus, it's a buyer's market right now, so get out there and buy that house man!

For perspective: All said and done, I'll pay out ~18% in just Fed taxes this year, rather than the ~21% I'd have to pay if I didn't own a home.

That makes me happy.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Well, Wheezer, putting words in other people's mouths is one of the last resorts of the argumentatively challenged, along with ad hom attacks.

You'll notice that I pointed out that taxes are regressive in the top 1%- you didn't dispute that. what I pointed out applies to anybody who takes in huge incomes, who lives in the top 1%, who pays lower taxes than that theoretical family making $300K/yr.

Nor did I claim that anybody cheated. Hell, tax rates are so low for top earners at the present time that they're dragging out income they've hidden for years, paying taxes on it. They're unwinding their cheats, if anything.

Hey- they paid for it, right? They funded the rightwing thinktanks that formulated the propaganda and bought off the rightwing politicians to have their way. It's all legal, even if it is completely scurrilous, no matter what their apologists have to say...

I never put any words in anyones mouth, but this whole thread is about bitching how the tax system is unfair for the filthy rich...how its "designed" for their benefit.

Why stop at the top 1%? Why single them out.

The tax code is borked in so many ways...is it designed by the rich for the rich so they pay less?...certainly, it probably is, but you just cant bitch whine and complain about part of it.....either fix all of it or keep quiet.

What is the point of redesigning a dam to make it better if the new design has just as many holes in it only in different places as the old one?

No wealthy person has to cheat on their taxes to get breaks...they just have to have someone working for them than can manipulate things within the tax code so their amount of income is reduced, it's a numbers game.

but again back to my point.....NOBODY really pays their fair share, regardless of the reason, so why single these people out?

 

[Jhhnn]

Puh-leeze, Wheezer. Tens of millions of taxpayers use form 1040EZ, and tens of millions more just take the standard deduction on form 1040. The accusation that "NOBODY" pays their fair share is scurrilous, particularly when the entire income of such filers is covered under W-2's. They can't cheat, even if they want to.

And it doesn't take any sort of planning for those at the top to pay extremely low taxrates, either. Warren Buffett, for example, engages in no tax planning at all, yet pays a much lower rate than his receptionist-

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11...yourmoney/26every.html

Why single out the people at the top? There are a variety of reasons.

Those at the top have been the recipients of enormous tax reductions, beginning 25 years ago, just for starters, and their mouthpieces, the various thinktanks and pundits of the Rightwing, are still whining for more. This has helped to create enormous and unhealthy inequality and has required huge federal deficits to mask the effects on the Treasury. It also required middle and working class tax increases, in the form of payroll taxes, to help cover the shortfalls. The promised trickledown effects have simply never appeared- exactly the opposite has occurred, following the entirely too commonsensical maxim that the only people who benefit from taxcuts are those who receive them. Very simple.

The sad truth is that taxes have to go up if we're to sustain ourselves over the longterm, and from a political perspective, those at the top have to be perceived to pay in reasonable proportion to the rest of us. That's not the case today, and claiming otherwise is foolish.

Yeh, there's a lot wrong with the tax system, but fixing it has to start at the top. I'll pay more willingly, if necessary, as will most middle and upperclass taxpayers, but that's only if those at the top are doing the same, if they're actually making a meaningful sacrifice.

This whole song and dance about keeping quiet or fixing all of it is utterly dishonest- you're moving the whole thing into the realm of the impossible, and if we can't accomplish that, then why bother, right?

 

[Genx87]

Oh that is grand, you are going to blame democrat created entitlement program tax increases on republicans? Medicare and SS taxes increased because the systems were insolvent without it. How is that the right wings fault the system is designed in such a way it requires exponential population growth and we are at the edge of a population bubble?

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Puh-leeze, Wheezer. Tens of millions of taxpayers use form 1040EZ, and tens of millions more just take the standard deduction on form 1040. The accusation that "NOBODY" pays their fair share is scurrilous, particularly when the entire income of such filers is covered under W-2's. They can't cheat, even if they want to.

And it doesn't take any sort of planning for those at the top to pay extremely low taxrates, either. Warren Buffett, for example, engages in no tax planning at all, yet pays a much lower rate than his receptionist-

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11...yourmoney/26every.html

Why single out the people at the top? There are a variety of reasons.

Those at the top have been the recipients of enormous tax reductions, beginning 25 years ago, just for starters, and their mouthpieces, the various thinktanks and pundits of the Rightwing, are still whining for more. This has helped to create enormous and unhealthy inequality and has required huge federal deficits to mask the effects on the Treasury. It also required middle and working class tax increases, in the form of payroll taxes, to help cover the shortfalls. The promised trickledown effects have simply never appeared- exactly the opposite has occurred, following the entirely too commonsensical maxim that the only people who benefit from taxcuts are those who receive them. Very simple.

The sad truth is that taxes have to go up if we're to sustain ourselves over the longterm, and from a political perspective, those at the top have to be perceived to pay in reasonable proportion to the rest of us. That's not the case today, and claiming otherwise is foolish.

Yeh, there's a lot wrong with the tax system, but fixing it has to start at the top. I'll pay more willingly, if necessary, as will most middle and upperclass taxpayers, but that's only if those at the top are doing the same, if they're actually making a meaningful sacrifice.

This whole song and dance about keeping quiet or fixing all of it is utterly dishonest- you're moving the whole thing into the realm of the impossible, and if we can't accomplish that, then why bother, right?

see the problem is that that top 1% probably create the majority of wealth in this country....no filthy poor man ever started a business and employed people....did they?

but the filthy rich are employing many people, and many of them donate to charities, schools and other organizations that help the less fortunate.

Second you are saying the entire tax code is written specifically for these people....ok let's go with that.....would it be easier to rewrite the entire system to snag this 1% or would it be easier to close the holes that allow 10-15% to cheat the system?

How much do you think the feds would get if they started collecting taxes on ebay sellers alone?

but no, you want to start writing a whole new book rather than fixing a few chapters.

 

[ElFenix]

before slinging around accusations that shrub wrote the tax code to benefit these wealthiest 400, does anyone have the stats for who the wealthiest 400 donated to?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Nice attempted duh-version, wheezer. cheating on taxes is entirely different than buying politicians to create the sort of tax structure that benefits the wealthy, and anybody with half a brain realizes it.

The current tax structure is regressive within the top 1%, which is extremely unfair to those at the lower end of it. It means a family earning $300K pays a higher rate than a family earning $300M in many cases, which is indefensible.

And yet its the husband and wife making $150k each are going to get pulverized by the Obama tax code.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
And it doesn't take any sort of planning for those at the top to pay extremely low taxrates, either. Warren Buffett, for example, engages in no tax planning at all, yet pays a much lower rate than his receptionist-

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11...yourmoney/26every.html

Congrats on investing in tax free munis. Does he want a medal?

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Puh-leeze, Wheezer. Tens of millions of taxpayers use form 1040EZ, and tens of millions more just take the standard deduction on form 1040. The accusation that "NOBODY" pays their fair share is scurrilous, particularly when the entire income of such filers is covered under W-2's. They can't cheat, even if they want to.

And that's why the IRS deems that 15% of EIC returns are fraudulent!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"

You haven't actually responded to that question yet. You keep trying to dance around around it, but you have done nothing towards providing an answer.

Answer the question.

"Who pays the most in taxes, by FAR, in this country?"

Ever compared the percentage of taxes paid to total net worth and income?

Didn't think so ...

More of the old soft shoe routine in response to my question. C'mon. We all know what the answer is. It was a rhetorical question in the first place, so you don't even really need to answer it.

Your attempt at avoiding answering it, in a not so deft manner, is a bit hilarious though.