Richard Dawkins - "Abort it, try again".

[shortylickens]

Who would give unsolicited dental advice?

You've been on this forum HOW long?

 

[SlowSpyder]

If you subscribe to the belief that a fetus is not a person how is it possible to object to what he said.

Under that belief a woman who did not get an abortion would be engaging in pure selfishness.

If you subscribe to the belief that god made all of us in his image, then he might look like Corky.

 

[Moonbeam]

https://richarddawkins.net/2014/08/...logy-for-letting-slip-the-dogs-of-twitterwar/

 

[Retro Rob]

He was right the first time, and shouldn't have apologized.

He shouldn't apologize for his opinion, no, but calling it "immoral"? He was out of line there.

There's nothing more immoral about opting to keep a child regardless of a inconvienece, and as the DSA said, Downs kids can and do become productive adults, and while I understand the logic behind the abortion, I think people like him simply don't want to deal with it.

That could be equally seen as immoral.

 

[soulcougher73]

That is the basis of whether abortion is right or wrong dumbass.

If a fetus is little more than menstrual blood why should Dawkins feel bad about telling a woman to dispose of it?

He probably doesn't feel bad about it, but his publicist told him to apologize to take back the offense to the pc crowd

 

[sandorski]

nmd

 

[JEDIYoda]

We all ready knew that Hamas killed alleged collaborators......
And we already knew that Hamas hid munitions and missiles in homes --
At about the same time, an airstrike hit a house in Gaza City, and a huge orange ball of fire from the explosion rose into Gaza's night sky. <-- must have been quite cache of weapons and munitions stored in that home...


ttp://news.yahoo.com/israel-palestinians-trade-fire-2-killed-gaza-062712598.html

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Gaza militants Friday gunned down 18 alleged spies for Israel in an apparent attempt to plug security breaches and deter others, a day after Israel killed three top Hamas military commanders in an airstrike likely guided by collaborators.

In one incident, masked gunmen lined up seven men, their heads covered by bags, along a wall outside a Gaza City mosque and shot them to death in front of hundreds of people, witnesses said. A note pinned on the wall said they had leaked information about the location of tunnels, homes of fighters and rockets that were later struck by Israel.

In Israel, a 4-year-old boy was killed when a mortar shell hit two cars in the parking lot of Nahal Oz, a small farming community near Gaza. Five Israelis were hurt, one seriously, in several rocket strikes, the military said. One rocket damaged a synagogue.

The child's death was bound to raise pressure on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu from an increasingly impatient public to put an end to rocket and mortar fire from Gaza — something Israel's military has been unable to do after 46 days of fighting with Hamas

Netanyahu's office said he expressed his condolences and vowed that Hamas would pay a "heavy price."

By early evening, Gaza militants had fired at least 117 rockets and mortar shells at Israel, while Israel carried out at least 35 airstrikes in Gaza, the military said.

In a new warning from Israel's military, automated phone messages told Gaza residents that "Hamas has decided to go to war again" and that people must "get away immediately from areas where Hamas conducts terror activities."

At about the same time, an airstrike hit a house in Gaza City, and a huge orange ball of fire from the explosion rose into Gaza's night sky.

There is more -- http://news.yahoo.com/israel-palestinians-trade-fire-2-killed-gaza-062712598.html

 

[zinfamous]

Aborting Down's fetuses has been very common for quite some time now. I actually think about this somewhat regularly. I recall growing up in the 80s and 90s, and it seemed that there were far more kids and adults with Down's that I would see on a regular basis.

Now, I just don't see them anywhere.

It's a tough thing to advise parents, as it can only be their choice in the end. Once you have access to this testing, it opens up a complicated line of reasoning and decision-making. Thing is, kids and adults can and do grow up and live great lives with various syndromes, but it takes a certain kind of parent to raise them. It's certainly not easy, and it's not something that any parent with "normal" kids can appreciate.

At the end of the day, I think it's important for such prospective parents to be made aware of the type of challenges and outcomes that they will face, and to seriously face some tough, uncomfortable questions before reaching any decision when it comes to less-than-favorable testing.

 

[zinfamous]

[wrong thread]

:hmm:

The "Post yet another Israel Thread" Button is that way ---->

 

[Moonbeam]

He shouldn't apologize for his opinion, no, but calling it "immoral"? He was out of line there.

There's nothing more immoral about opting to keep a child regardless of a inconvienece, and as the DSA said, Downs kids can and do become productive adults, and while I understand the logic behind the abortion, I think people like him simply don't want to deal with it.

That could be equally seen as immoral.

He said his moral judgment was based on the notion of reducing suffering in the world. When you say people don't want to deal with it, aren't you really saying they don't want to suffer? You believe that folk are morally obligated to suffer, but that is a religious belief, isn't it? If folk don't believe in the value of suffering why would you insist that it's better they do? That's something you don't want to deal with, no?

 

[zinfamous]

If you subscribe to the belief that god made all of us in his image, then he might look like Corky.

also, Corky is gay...maybe transexual

 

[Retro Rob]

He said his moral judgment was based on the notion of reducing suffering in the world.

I understand that, I if you read my OP, I mentioned it. Down's is just one way people suffer. Most of the suffering is due to poverty, hunger, and injustice. So his logic is sound, but at the same time, makes little sense since aborting sick children would probably scratch the surface of reducing suffering.

Perhaps he was looking for a moral way out of a bad POV.

When you say people don't want to deal with it, aren't you really saying they don't want to suffer?

That's a form of suffering, but that's not what he was talking about.

You believe that folk are morally obligated to suffer, but that is a religious belief, isn't it?

No, I don't...I think people are morally obligated to take care of their children...sick or healthy.

Stop with these strawman arguments, beam.

 

[realibrad]

Wait, what? No one's asking me what religion they should choose, and if they did, I'd not advise them.

Nice strawman, though.

So why is this issue one where you feel you would not give an opinion?

 

[Retro Rob]

So why is this issue one where you feel you would not give an opinion?

Because, unlike a religious decision concerning what Church you'll attend, you can't simply walk away from a sick child (after its born) like you can walk away from a religion.

In other words, the consequences for bringing a child into this world FAR outweighs those of choosing perhaps the wrong religion, and I don't want to share potential blame in wrongly advising someone on carrying out a pregnancy.

I don't have to deal with the consequences, so I'd pass.

 

[sandorski]

A friend of mine was recently presented with this dilemma. He and his wife were expecting their second child and a test came back Positive for Downs. It was a Preliminary test and they were awaiting the results of a more precise test. Part of the dilemma is that they are Muslim, she was interested in Aborting, he wasn't. In Islam, an Abortion is acceptable before 13 weeks(apparently), but the result of the test would not be known until after 13 weeks. So on top of the disagreement of Abortion, there was also the problem of whether to wait for the results of the better tests. Fortunately everything worked out and the second test came back Negative.

Personally, before hearing the various opinions about Abortion and Islam's position on it, I brought the issue up to him, suggesting it as an option.

 

[Retro Rob]

A friend of mine was recently presented with this dilemma. He and his wife were expecting their second child and a test came back Positive for Downs. It was a Preliminary test and they were awaiting the results of a more precise test. Part of the dilemma is that they are Muslim, she was interested in Aborting, he wasn't. In Islam, an Abortion is acceptable before 13 weeks(apparently), but the result of the test would not be known until after 13 weeks. So on top of the disagreement of Abortion, there was also the problem of whether to wait for the results of the better tests. Fortunately everything worked out and the second test came back Negative.

Personally, before hearing the various opinions about Abortion and Islam's position on it, I brought the issue up to him, suggesting it as an option.

Yeah, that's tough. As far as your statement goes, that's probably as far as I'd take it personally.

 

[Exophase]

Another haphazard tweet demonstrates once again that brevity is not the soul of wit. We might see less of these Twitter gaffes if people had some more space to talk.

 

[alzan]

According to the article in the OP the mother asked Dawkins his opinion and he gave it to her.

Exactly what are we discussing?

 

[dank69]

Someone who commentated on dental care?

It seems like liberals have redefined a woman's right to make choices about her body to also mean that no one should ever comment on whether those choices are good or not.

I'm not commenting about that. I'm commenting about your reduction of a woman's intent toward her fetus to zero when determining the 'value' of said fetus.

 

[Moonbeam]

Retro Rob: I understand that, I if you read my OP, I mentioned it. Down's is just one way people suffer. Most of the suffering is due to poverty, hunger, and injustice. So his logic is sound, but at the same time, makes little sense since aborting sick children would probably scratch the surface of reducing suffering.

M: Most situations where poverty hunger and injustice are rife, Down children are the first to die.

RB: Perhaps he was looking for a moral way out of a bad POV.

M: Perhaps 144 characters wasn't enough to carry nuance.

RB: That's a form of suffering, but that's not what he was talking about.

M: Hos so?

RB: No, I don't...I think people are morally obligated to take care of their children...sick or healthy.

Stop with these strawman arguments, beam.

M: Strawman? You are not obligated to take care of aborted fetuses, are you? That was the point and the issue. You believe a moral issue exists before the law does, that a Down child is an act of God rather than a genetic accident, that folk can't use wisdom and common sense and intelligence to escape capricious fate and you're compelled by your absolute notion of life to try to guilt-trip those who are or struggle to be free from it.

 

[squarecut1]

As I've said before, it is a tragedy Mr. Dawkins was not aborted when he was ill conceived

 

[SlowSpyder]

As I've said before, it is a tragedy Mr. Dawkins was not aborted when he was ill conceived

So you are pro choice?

 

[squarecut1]

So you are pro choice?

Yes, the choice to abort abominations like Mr. Dawkins and others of his ilk

 

[sandorski]

Yes, the choice to abort abominations like Mr. Dawkins and others of his ilk

Except, that wouldn't be Abortion.

 

[Moonbeam]

So you are pro choice?

How quickly he became what he fears.