geno
Lifer
- Dec 26, 1999
- 25,074
- 4
- 0
<< I am still waiting on the links that show 85% of Supras are 700 RWHP >>
I never said that 85% are at that level, I saw a registry (fanclub) that had a list of people who modded their cars, and most of them were above 600HP. I'll look for the page again, gimme a little.
in the meantime, here's some dynos to compare...find some of your Cobra's and Camaros, I'd like to see the differences. (I'm not doubting these cars in terms of HP, I've seen some grossly supercharged engines that put out alot of HP). Just for the hell of it, I'll post up some dynos to compare...
Supra1
Supra2
Also got a quote here about a Skyline:
<< Trust and VeilSide have both produced Skylines that chunk out somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 horsepower, with redlines in the 10,000 RPM range.VeilSide's battle-worn R32 Combat Evolution is still the reigning quarter king of the species, which, last we heard, put out 1,300 horse at the flywheel and ran 8.86 on DOT-approved drag radials >>
(From IGN.com)
How streetable are they? Not much. How much would it cost? I am not talking about building a drag car here. In that case the American Car would always win. I want to see how a 700 RHWP+ Supra in cost, streetabiltiy compares to the Z06 and the Cobra R. Your skyline has already lost. I can barely read those dynos but I tried anyway. That car makes almost zero power until 4k RPM. Then from there up until 6500k RPM, it makes a good bit of power. THe power is peaky and the curve is not flat. How is this a good car? That makes it very hard and extreme to launch. No torque down-low and a turbo system, make it very hard to launch. How much would a Veilside Car cost? If you want to start getting into the 100-200k add-ons or teams that race we can. The Mustang And Camaro will always win that. The Mustang has NMRA, Fun Ford Weekend, and other events. More mustangs are racing than ever before and there times are faster than before.
How can you come quote about some Supras that make "about 1000hp" and that cost more than a large house? I did a price/performance comparison, in which the Skyline and Supra were killed. Post some facts for once. What kind of car are you going to get?
How can you come quote about some Supras that make "about 1000hp" and that cost more than a large house? I did a price/performance comparison, in which the Skyline and Supra were killed. Post some facts for once. What kind of car are you going to get?
<< << Trust and VeilSide have both produced Skylines that chunk out somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 horsepower, with redlines in the 10,000 RPM range.VeilSide's battle-worn R32 Combat Evolution is still the reigning quarter king of the species, which, last we heard, put out 1,300 horse at the flywheel and ran 8.86 on DOT-approved drag radials > >>
How much would this cost? Oh BTW, plenty of Mustangs run 7.20s and under in the 1/4. Go pick up the latest issue of MM&FF. Oh, their motor doesn't have to be rebuilt after every race either.
From Lidio on www.corral.net
<< --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Guys
Cant leave this one alone. I'm trying not argue or go against the opinions of a lot of the supercharged modular followers but I want to make people under stand that the 32V Cobra motor can take a ton more than every one has been lead to believe no matter how many motors I broke this summer. I'm going to give a recap on what I've been through this summer right until yesterday when I destroyed the third... all stock used 32V motor in our '93 coupe.
The first motor that I put in was used and already had a Vortech on it for about 5000 miles on it, and the last couple of thousand miles we had bumped the boost to 14 and switched it to turbo blue leaded 110 octane which is readily available in the Detroit area. When I bought that motor and put it in our coupe we changed the head gaskets on it because while we were removing the IRMC plates we noticed that the head gaskets had started to seep into what would be the lifter valley area in a push rod motor. We simply bought Ford head gaskets and new stock head bolts and also shimmed the stock valve springs .060 and that was it. That motor lasted about 62 passes in our 3000 lbs car running a best of 9.63 to 9.90's most of the time. This was not luck!
This was not 10 or 12 passes! This was a well tuned motor that was truly raced and made a lot of events this summer. It was probably pounded harder that most of the guys who do have good pistons and rods etc. The first motor seen about 22 psi with the S-trim at 7700 for about 58 passes. Then just before the cyber brawl we installed a T-trim with a fresh belt and it ran its best ever to date 9.63 @ 141mph and lasted only 5 runs with the T on it. The T-trim made the car go thru the traps at 8100 at 26.5 psi instead of 7700ish at 22 psi with S-trim. On the 5th run at the cyber brawl it then ripped the bottom of a piston out and made a big mess I think cause we over reved it. After only the first 20 passes on the first motor I new that these motors could take a pile of boost with the right octane and proper tune. I think that after 62 passes I proved it many times over. Now the second motor was only in the car a couple of days and I destroyed that one on just a simple test pass on a local road first time out. That one was undeniably detonation. It was obvious, the Speed-pro data logger showed a leaner condition and more timing that I usually run because I had left the car in a slightly more aggressive tune because it was hot and humid at the cyber brawl with the old first motor, but real cool locally the night I was testing the used 2nd motor. I goofed and I know it. Now the third and last motor that's currently in the car was purchased for $2000. We pulled the oil pan just to look for spun rod bearings because we've purchased one before with spun bearings. We wanted to make sure every thing was cool with this one. On this current third motor we didn't have the time to shim the valve springs because we wanted to make the J&P day in Canada. We literally slapped the oil pan back on and dropped it in the car once the IRMC plates were removed. We choose to keep the T-trim on the car but install 4.10s in the rear over the 4.56's so the it would go thru at around 7500 ish instead of 8000+. The third and current motor lasted from what we can tell from all of our time slips 42 passes making about 24psi @ 7600 rpm!
Unfortunately yesterday at a track on the east coast. The "at sea level" kick-ass cool air blind sided me and I didn't pull enough timing or add enough fuel for the conditions and it looks like it detonated and broke number 3 piston. The air was so good that at 7500 rpm it made 26.5psi instead of 24psi at 7600 at the top of second gear just before the shift. Just one weekend ago I raced the car locally in 70 degree air and put 8 passes on the car and ran two 9.69's in a row, that's the best its ever run with the 4.10's instead of the 4.56's. I think locally I would have gotten more runs in the state of tune I had it in, but it was late and time to go home. I know for sure from the data logger that I didn't pull enough timing or add enough fuel yesterday morning. I know it looks like I wasted a lot of money and time here but it was to prove that these stock Cobra motors could take it. I was hitting stock Cobra motors with 15-18 psi of boost back in '98 and '99 and had no problems even with the stock eec-5 and my tuning and chip, once they had 36 or 42 lbs injectors, a #8 line with a good external fuel pump and 110 octane leaded fuel. I also have a lot of 32V Cobra customers that have 11 psi with unleaded fuel and have no problems with stock pistons.
One more quick thing I've said before...the 4R70W in the coupe now has over 100 passes on it and not one thing has gone wrong, remember we bought it used for $300.00, it has only a PA valve body with a brake and Stallion convertor with 5000 stall. It never got rebuilt! Plus we started to lock-up the convertor on it recently in 3d at WOT after the shift. It lowered our trap rpm to 7200. We think it was worth a tenth and 2mph in moderately warm weather.
Thanks for reading every one.
I wanted to say thanks for all the kind words and support I got from all the people I met this year at all the various events I made with the car and on this message board. And especially Joe who owns the chassis and let me drive and beat the sh$t out of it this whole summer.
The plans for this winter are going to be bowl ported heads, large one piece throttle body with slight intake work, tighter valve springs, good short block finally, 83lbs injectors instead of 55's, stock cams, go through the trans and put back in the 4.56's or larger. I think that this combo will put Joe's car easily in the low 9's weighing 3000lbs.
>>
Tell me that the Skylines have stock engines like this car. Ran mid to high 9's in the 1/4 with a stock block. No forged internals, forged rods or cylinders. Just a lot of boost. Didn't blow it up until he went above the rev-limiter trying to get his best time. Oh these were not freshly built Cobra motors. They were used ones that he bought. Still waiting on some facts instead of some hearsay.
Also go here. http://trueblueperform.home.mindspring.com/joe-magazine.html
<< --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Guys
Cant leave this one alone. I'm trying not argue or go against the opinions of a lot of the supercharged modular followers but I want to make people under stand that the 32V Cobra motor can take a ton more than every one has been lead to believe no matter how many motors I broke this summer. I'm going to give a recap on what I've been through this summer right until yesterday when I destroyed the third... all stock used 32V motor in our '93 coupe.
The first motor that I put in was used and already had a Vortech on it for about 5000 miles on it, and the last couple of thousand miles we had bumped the boost to 14 and switched it to turbo blue leaded 110 octane which is readily available in the Detroit area. When I bought that motor and put it in our coupe we changed the head gaskets on it because while we were removing the IRMC plates we noticed that the head gaskets had started to seep into what would be the lifter valley area in a push rod motor. We simply bought Ford head gaskets and new stock head bolts and also shimmed the stock valve springs .060 and that was it. That motor lasted about 62 passes in our 3000 lbs car running a best of 9.63 to 9.90's most of the time. This was not luck!
This was not 10 or 12 passes! This was a well tuned motor that was truly raced and made a lot of events this summer. It was probably pounded harder that most of the guys who do have good pistons and rods etc. The first motor seen about 22 psi with the S-trim at 7700 for about 58 passes. Then just before the cyber brawl we installed a T-trim with a fresh belt and it ran its best ever to date 9.63 @ 141mph and lasted only 5 runs with the T on it. The T-trim made the car go thru the traps at 8100 at 26.5 psi instead of 7700ish at 22 psi with S-trim. On the 5th run at the cyber brawl it then ripped the bottom of a piston out and made a big mess I think cause we over reved it. After only the first 20 passes on the first motor I new that these motors could take a pile of boost with the right octane and proper tune. I think that after 62 passes I proved it many times over. Now the second motor was only in the car a couple of days and I destroyed that one on just a simple test pass on a local road first time out. That one was undeniably detonation. It was obvious, the Speed-pro data logger showed a leaner condition and more timing that I usually run because I had left the car in a slightly more aggressive tune because it was hot and humid at the cyber brawl with the old first motor, but real cool locally the night I was testing the used 2nd motor. I goofed and I know it. Now the third and last motor that's currently in the car was purchased for $2000. We pulled the oil pan just to look for spun rod bearings because we've purchased one before with spun bearings. We wanted to make sure every thing was cool with this one. On this current third motor we didn't have the time to shim the valve springs because we wanted to make the J&P day in Canada. We literally slapped the oil pan back on and dropped it in the car once the IRMC plates were removed. We choose to keep the T-trim on the car but install 4.10s in the rear over the 4.56's so the it would go thru at around 7500 ish instead of 8000+. The third and current motor lasted from what we can tell from all of our time slips 42 passes making about 24psi @ 7600 rpm!
Unfortunately yesterday at a track on the east coast. The "at sea level" kick-ass cool air blind sided me and I didn't pull enough timing or add enough fuel for the conditions and it looks like it detonated and broke number 3 piston. The air was so good that at 7500 rpm it made 26.5psi instead of 24psi at 7600 at the top of second gear just before the shift. Just one weekend ago I raced the car locally in 70 degree air and put 8 passes on the car and ran two 9.69's in a row, that's the best its ever run with the 4.10's instead of the 4.56's. I think locally I would have gotten more runs in the state of tune I had it in, but it was late and time to go home. I know for sure from the data logger that I didn't pull enough timing or add enough fuel yesterday morning. I know it looks like I wasted a lot of money and time here but it was to prove that these stock Cobra motors could take it. I was hitting stock Cobra motors with 15-18 psi of boost back in '98 and '99 and had no problems even with the stock eec-5 and my tuning and chip, once they had 36 or 42 lbs injectors, a #8 line with a good external fuel pump and 110 octane leaded fuel. I also have a lot of 32V Cobra customers that have 11 psi with unleaded fuel and have no problems with stock pistons.
One more quick thing I've said before...the 4R70W in the coupe now has over 100 passes on it and not one thing has gone wrong, remember we bought it used for $300.00, it has only a PA valve body with a brake and Stallion convertor with 5000 stall. It never got rebuilt! Plus we started to lock-up the convertor on it recently in 3d at WOT after the shift. It lowered our trap rpm to 7200. We think it was worth a tenth and 2mph in moderately warm weather.
Thanks for reading every one.
I wanted to say thanks for all the kind words and support I got from all the people I met this year at all the various events I made with the car and on this message board. And especially Joe who owns the chassis and let me drive and beat the sh$t out of it this whole summer.
The plans for this winter are going to be bowl ported heads, large one piece throttle body with slight intake work, tighter valve springs, good short block finally, 83lbs injectors instead of 55's, stock cams, go through the trans and put back in the 4.56's or larger. I think that this combo will put Joe's car easily in the low 9's weighing 3000lbs.
>>
Tell me that the Skylines have stock engines like this car. Ran mid to high 9's in the 1/4 with a stock block. No forged internals, forged rods or cylinders. Just a lot of boost. Didn't blow it up until he went above the rev-limiter trying to get his best time. Oh these were not freshly built Cobra motors. They were used ones that he bought. Still waiting on some facts instead of some hearsay.
Also go here. http://trueblueperform.home.mindspring.com/joe-magazine.html
ahh man u guys look how this thread started out>) now u guys are neffin it in a car argument? hahaha lol
geno
Lifer
- Dec 26, 1999
- 25,074
- 4
- 0
OK, I'm not going to argue in this thread much more, because I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye. But America's finest is nothing to Japans finest IMO. I'll be back with more proof, my friend has a few videos of some international drag comps, and even the American teams had Japanese cars, there were only like 2 stangs and 1 Viper. None of them won, they were busy getting torn apart by RX-7s and Supras. So, it all comes down to which cars can go faster....
That's strange cause up here at Bandemere there is not 1 import in King Street series up here.
There is allot of Old Mopar 440's with 550 HP With NO Blower/Turbo.
There is allot of Old Mopar 440's with 550 HP With NO Blower/Turbo.
<< In your souped up GN or 5.0...
I'm on a roll, I always ride solo.
it runs low 18's, yo, that really ain't slow.
>>
lol!
<< OK, I'm not going to argue in this thread much more, because I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye. >>
Which if I use my rice boy convertor reads: I have no proof or facts, and I was soundly beat in this argument, but dammit I missed second gear!
<< Which if I use my rice boy convertor reads: I have no proof or facts, and I was soundly beat in this argument, but dammit I missed second gear! >>
LOL! Millenium.
Where can one d/l this converter?
geno
Lifer
- Dec 26, 1999
- 25,074
- 4
- 0
<< it all comes down to which cars can go faster.... >>
The quote speaks for itself I think, I've seen numerous Imports completely smoke Domestic cars. Now, maybe they didn't have the knowledge you do about American cars (in terms of modding), but we all can't be as smart as you now can we?
I gotta admit seeing V8's getting blown away by Tubo 4's is pretty amusing...it's more common than you think it is. Which is why I see the Mustang as being a weak car in general, plain and simple.
<< I gotta admit seeing V8's getting blown away by Tubo 4's is pretty amusing...it's more common than you think it is. Which is why I see the Mustang as being a weak car in general, plain and simple. >>
I still haven't even seen the cars you have talked about! I gave you proof that the skyline was easiliy beaten on a road course of at the strip. I proved to you that there were faster mustangs than the supras you talked about and the mustangs were running stock motors! So where is the car you are talking about? Maybe a V-6 mustang or a the fox-bodied 4 cylinder. Which the new 99-01 V6's are pretty stout. 200 horsepower and a nice bit of torque make it a fun car.
I fail to see how the faster car wins, if all the cars I have shown you were the faster ones. Do you have a problem reading or understanding? Also, to the half try at saying we all don't know it all about domestics...you don't know much about either. Otherwise, you would have been able to find those secret "turbo 4's" or the 80k supercar that doesn't even come to america and show me some proof. Although I may be a domestic owner, I love cars in general and could debate your side as an import owner. Search for my username and see where I defend my friend's type R versus the Prelude and other imports.
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