Revolt on the Right

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Many of the lefty posters here at P&N confuse conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals with Republicans.

The principles of small government and personal freedom are, of course, much more closely aligned with the Republican Party than the Democrat Party.

But since the Republicans abrogated their "Contract With America" by becoming a Party of big government and big spending and thus supplanting the traditional positions of the Democrats who were, in turn, taken over by their own radical wing of self described Maoists and social welfare pacifist greens, neither Party winds up being especially appealing.

With the casual voter seeing no discernible differences between Obama and McCain other than age and suaveness, the majority Democrat Party recently took over both the executive and the legislative branches of the federal government. They have been making a royal mess of it as they are wont to do. Without the checks and balances of different Parties controlling these two branches of government, this is expected. That the bankrupting cost is what it is, however, was not anticipated by many.

Enter the antitheses of big government and high taxes and oppressive social welfare - the conservatives, the libertarians and, dare I say, the classical liberals such as myself. We number more Republicans than Democrats amongst our diverse ranks, but the Republican Party is not what it used to be under Reagan.

National touch stones like Sarah Palin, Steve Forbes and Dick Armey, formerly loyal Republicans, are now actively challenging the leftward drift of the Republican Party, and, in some cases, rejecting the RINOs for Conservative Party candidates.

They know that a third party bid for political power is unlikely to succeed. They know the Democrats have become enamored of a rush to spend, spend, spend and are lost in the frenzy to nationalize the country's private industry.

So they now move powerfully to re-assert the core principles of the Republican Party. Maybe in enough time to accelerate a turn from the Democrat incumbents in 2010.

Where were they for the last eight years?

Revolt on the Right

Revolt on the Right


By W. James Antle, III
The American Spectator
10.23.09

W. James Antle, III is associate editor of The American Spectator. A Massachusetts native, he learned early to defend his conservative views in hostile territory while avoiding making political differences personal.

When taxpayers and conservative activists began holding tea parties to protest an out-of-control federal government's unsustainable growth, it was not entirely unreasonable to ask: Where were these people for the last eight years?

George W. Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress increased discretionary spending at twice the rate that prevailed under Bill Clinton. This dynamic duo produced a bloated transportation bill, an expensive energy bill, No Child Left Behind, Sarbanes-Oxley, and a witches' brew of legislation expanding the size and cost of the federal government. Federal outlays as a share of GDP increased from 18.4 percent to 20.9 percent.

In eight years, Washington went from running a $128 billion surplus to a $1.2 trillion deficit. Instead of recognizing that the major federal retirement programs were going broke, Bush and his supporters created a prescription drug benefit that increased Medicare's unfunded liabilities. It was the biggest new entitlement since the Great Society. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were pushed off budget to prevent the country's fiscal picture from looking even gloomier. Bush left office having rammed through a bipartisan $700 billion Wall Street bailout.

Barack Obama came into office and promptly made most of these problems worse, staying on the road to bankruptcy but pushing the accelerator all the way down to the floor. The silence of too many Republicans -- and even conservatives -- in the face of GOP fiscal irresponsibility complicated the case against Obama's gargantuan spending plans. "Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats," Bruce Bartlett complained earlier this year, "they will have no credibility and deserve no respect."

Ask and ye shall receive. Conservatives in general and the Tea Party movement are increasingly directing their fire at Republicans who govern like Democrats. The strongest sign yet has been in New York's 23rd congressional district, where local Republicans nominated a liberal who supports card check and same-sex marriage but won't forthrightly disavow either tax increases or a health care bill that funds abortion.

Dede Scozzafava won't even commit to how long she'll support House Minority Leader John Boehner for speaker. Faced with persistent questions from John McCormack, a conservative young reporter from the Weekly Standard, aimed at discerning her predilection for pulling an Arlen Specter, Scozzafava called the cops. Her press secretary later released an e-mail exchange with McCormack they thought would vindicate their position, only to find that even Daily Kos agrees with the Standard on this dust-up.

This prompted a virtual stampede of conservative bloggers and activists to come forward and demand that Scozzafava drop out of the race. It has sent an even bigger flood of conservatives, both within and outside the district, to support Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman over Scozzafava. A Sienna College poll found that 23 percent of the district's likely voters now intend to cast their ballots for Hoffman, a 7-point jump in two weeks, compared to 29 percent for Scozzafava and 33 percent for Democrat Bill Owens.

Normally, the argument that voting for a third-party candidate on the right is morally equivalent to voting for a Democrat keeps many a disenchanted conservative in the GOP fold. There is a chance that the split between Hoffman and Scozzafava will lead to a Democrat representing New York's 23rd District for the first time since 1872. "GOP squabbling jeopardizes N.Y. Seat," crowed the headline writers at the Washington Post.

Yet this time many conservatives are asking: Do we not in effect get a legislator liberal enough to be a Democrat even if Scozzafava wins? Aren't their higher principles at stake in this election than (maybe) securing a vote for Boehner for speaker? If enough conservatives think these questions through, New York just might see a repeat of James Buckley's surprise 1970 victory over a Republican and a Democrat on the Conservative Party line.

Dick Armey traveled to New York to campaign for Hoffman and against the GOP nominee. As House majority leader, he occasionally voted for Bush policies that he personally opposed -- he has since named No Child Left Behind and the Iraq war as the two biggest examples -- but has since decided that sometimes party loyalty asks too much. "We've struggled with a Republican party ... that has lost its way," he said in the Empire State. "They don't remember about Reagan ... they don't remember about small government. They let their thinking be controlled by self-serving political objects. And frankly, they made a lot of fools out of themselves."

Republicans who voted for the bailout routinely find themselves booed when they try to speak at Tea Party events. The eight House Republicans who broke with their party and voted for a climate change bill including a costly cap-and-trade scheme, they were denounced by the grassroots as "cap and traitors." When the National Republican Senatorial Committee and other Washington GOP power brokers pull out all the stops for moderate primary candidates -- including two of the cap and traitors -- conservative activists pledge not to pull out their wallets.

One former Bush speechwriter claims that while reviewing the draft of a speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference, the president said, "Let me tell you something. I whupped Gary Bauer's ass in 2000. So take out all this movement stuff. There is no movement." Even if the story is apocryphal, it does do a good job of capturing much of the conservative movement's relationship with the Bush-era GOP.

Conservatives may finally be in the mood to return the favor by giving errant Republicans a whupping of their own.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Topic Title: Revolt on the Right
Topic Summary: Where were these people for the last eight years?

Where were they? Pretty simple

Basking, in my opinion, criminal ill-gotten personal gains of wealth at the expense of the country.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Topic Title: Revolt on the Right
Topic Summary: Where were these people for the last eight years?

Where were they? Pretty simple

Basking, in my opinion, criminal ill-gotten personal gains of wealth at the expense of the country.

so, you routinely troll topics without reading the attached article? you are such a useful person on this form, they should like make you a moderator or something...

What is that saying, during a crisis you must take advantage? i believe that is the saying or something similar, i believe now is the time to create a new party.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I have said or a long time that most libertarians only claim to be until it's time to vote. They don't deep down believe what they claim to and so they vote republican. Most Americans whine but otherwise seems perfectly content to vote either democrat or republican, which makes them either democrat or republican. And if we can agree that both parties are a damn far cry from good it means this is the way most Americans want it. To be bickering and constant one up-manship cutting off the nose to spite the face.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I have said or a long time that most libertarians only claim to be until it's time to vote. They don't deep down believe what they claim to and so they vote republican.
I've thought of this often myself. I've been in this predicament myself. I don't necessarily agree with you. What usually happens is that as election day closes in, the two major parties and their minions start making noises about "throwing away your vote". It's a powerful message.

One starts thinking of the ramifications of the statement. You could end up with the worst of the two evils because you voted for an independent that has little chance of winning. Even if the independent did win, he or she is thrust into the cesspool of DC and will be essentially be cut from the herd and left to fend for themselves. The end result could be an individual elected to the office but neutered by the two party system.

The two major parties have got a system in place. It's been finely honed for many, many decades. When they sense a threat, they become strange bedfellows.

I don't know what the answer is to this. A legal one anyway.



I've used the word independent. Substitute libertarian, socialist workers party, green party, whatever you want.
 

TheSkinsFan

Golden Member
May 15, 2009
1,141
0
0
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Connies eating their own. This should be fun to watch.
Perhaps for a minute; but, if at the end of the day they are able to pull it off, you might be eating crow and left wondering what hit you.

If the country was ever ready for a change in the party structure, now is the time. It probably won't happen by 2010, or 2012; but we may see true conservatives/classical liberals begin to make strides beginning in the 2014 mid-term elections.

I approve this message and hope for the best. Fuck the D's and R's.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,577
6,713
126
PJ: Many of the lefty posters here at P&N confuse conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals with Republicans.

M: Any confusion on the left is just a reflection of those in whom the confusion actually exists, the right.

PJ: The principles of small government and personal freedom are, of course, much more closely aligned with the Republican Party than the Democrat Party.

M: Not in actuality. This is a myth propounded by the confused who profess to be fiscally responsible and are the opposite.

PJ: But since the Republicans abrogated their "Contract With America" by becoming a Party of big government and big spending and thus supplanting the traditional positions of the Democrats who were, in turn, taken over by their own radical wing of self described Maoists and social welfare pacifist greens, neither Party winds up being especially appealing.

M: Only to the delusional like yourself who continue in their self generated fabrication that progressives are Maoists and social welfare pacifist greens and the rest of the horse shit you tell yourselves. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder which means, of course, that ugliness you see is in the person doing the looking.

PJ: With the casual voter seeing no discernible differences between Obama and McCain other than age and suaveness, the majority Democrat Party recently took over both the executive and the legislative branches of the federal government.

M: Hehe, the casual voter, after eight years of Bush, voted Democrat to prevent being gutted and bleed-out through the ass.

PJ: They have been making a royal mess of it as they are wont to do.

M: No, the mess, continuing as it was created since Reagan, continues to this day via Republican obstructionism, and will continue for years as all who try to turn a battle ship know. Republicans fucked us and continue to fuck us and it will take several generations of deaths to rid ourselves of the effect of the party of death that has poisoned our land.

PJ: Without the checks and balances of different Parties controlling these two branches of government, this is expected. That the bankrupting cost is what it is, however, was not anticipated by many.

M: Another horse shit myth. We have never had a progressive party in control of the three branches of government and we will do nothing but stagnate until we do. We have dragged the tired anchor of the party of death for decades. It's time to die. Good bye.

PJ: Enter the antitheses of big government and high taxes and oppressive social welfare - the conservatives, the libertarians and, dare I say, the classical liberals such as myself. We number more Republicans than Democrats amongst our diverse ranks, but the Republican Party is not what it used to be under Reagan.

M: Right, enter the same bunch of deluded idiots with the same tired old message they pay no attention to when in power that have fucked us for the eight years of their last turn in power. Please crawl under a rock somewhere and die so people with real vision can lead.

PJ: National touch stones like Sarah Palin, Steve Forbes and Dick Armey, formerly loyal Republicans, are now actively challenging the leftward drift of the Republican Party, and, in some cases, rejecting the RINOs for Conservative Party candidates.

M: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Isn't that swell. The Republicans went left because they have one core value, do anything to win. This new deluded pack of morons, having had their party stripped of its few remaining semi intelligent voters, can now claim a more hard core message among the remaining few fanatic, lunatic, wing-nuts, and win within the remaining dying.

PJ: They know that a third party bid for political power is unlikely to succeed. They know the Democrats have become enamored of a rush to spend, spend, spend and are lost in the frenzy to nationalize the country's private industry.

M: What they think they know, you mean. What they don't actually know is that they are insane, that what they see is the result of having their heads up their own asses.

PJ: So they now move powerfully to re-assert the core principles of the Republican Party. Maybe in enough time to accelerate a turn from the Democrat incumbents in 2010.

M: Maybe in enough time to attract three voters.

PJ: Where were they for the last eight years

M: Where they have always been, schizophrenically fucking up the country with their two faced lies.
 

MikeMike

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
45,885
66
91
PJ: The principles of small government and personal freedom are, of course, much more closely aligned with the Republican Party than the Democrat Party.

M: Not in actuality. This is a myth propounded by the confused who profess to be fiscally responsible and are the opposite.

PJ: But since the Republicans abrogated their "Contract With America" by becoming a Party of big government and big spending and thus supplanting the traditional positions of the Democrats who were, in turn, taken over by their own radical wing of self described Maoists and social welfare pacifist greens, neither Party winds up being especially appealing.

M: Only to the delusional like yourself who continue in their self generated fabrication that progressives are Maoists and social welfare pacifist greens and the rest of the horse shit you tell yourselves. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder which means, of course, that ugliness you see is in the person doing the looking.

do you not see the hypocrisy in that?
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Connies eating their own. This should be fun to watch.
Perhaps for a minute; but, if at the end of the day they are able to pull it off, you might be eating crow and left wondering what hit you.

If the country was ever ready for a change in the party structure, now is the time. It probably won't happen by 2010, or 2012; but we may see true conservatives/classical liberals begin to make strides beginning in the 2014 mid-term elections.

I approve this message and hope for the best. Fuck the D's and R's.
I echo your sentiments.

Party structure change must be accompanied by an elimination of lobbying IMO. You can't leave one leg of the three legged stool standing. Lobbying efforts will corrupt any meaningful reform of the parties. It may in fact prevent it from happening at all.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
First, please lose the myth of "Reagan the Great". Your idol had no respect for law or Constitution and did nothing to reduce the size of the federal government.

Second, jettison the Theocratic wing of your "Conservative" restoration and you might again attract the moderates necessary to win national elections. Keep telling yourself that all you need do is purge moderates from your coalition and the "True Believers" will sweep our ideology into power, and you will spend a very, very long time in the political wilderness.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,577
6,713
126
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
PJ: The principles of small government and personal freedom are, of course, much more closely aligned with the Republican Party than the Democrat Party.

M: Not in actuality. This is a myth propounded by the confused who profess to be fiscally responsible and are the opposite.

PJ: But since the Republicans abrogated their "Contract With America" by becoming a Party of big government and big spending and thus supplanting the traditional positions of the Democrats who were, in turn, taken over by their own radical wing of self described Maoists and social welfare pacifist greens, neither Party winds up being especially appealing.

M: Only to the delusional like yourself who continue in their self generated fabrication that progressives are Maoists and social welfare pacifist greens and the rest of the horse shit you tell yourselves. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder which means, of course, that ugliness you see is in the person doing the looking.

do you not see the hypocrisy in that?

Did you know what when you know you don't know anything you still know something. Is that hypocrisy?

Get in the water. You tell me what hypocricy you see in me so I can accuse you of it. Hehe
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
First, please lose the myth of "Reagan the Great". Your idol had no respect for law or Constitution and did nothing to reduce the size of the federal government.

Second, jettison the Theocratic wing of your "Conservative" restoration and you might again attract the moderates necessary to win national elections. Keep telling yourself that all you need do is purge moderates from your coalition and the "True Believers" will sweep our ideology into power, and you will spend a very, very long time in the political wilderness.

Seriously, what a laugh OP.

The principles of small government and personal freedom are, of course, much more closely aligned with the Republican Party than the Democrat Party.


I think the R's will be in civil war for quite until they are honest w/ themselves to who they actually are. The statement above is just stupid. R's have never been in favor of sm gov't when the votes come down. Sure they demagogue it to death, but never enact it. Reagan & W are just the epitome.

The "real conservatives" cannot claim to be the party of personal freedoms when they have such staunch social and authoritarian views that seek to limit personal freedoms.

Truth is L and R just have different order of priorities when it comes to balancing personal freedoms with social justice and law and order.
Using idiotic and bombastic language like that and "moaist green welfare queens" is not going to get you to enlightenment much faster.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: TheSkinsFanFuck the D's and R's.

This.

LOL @ all of you who point fingers from the sidelines and think their politicians would act differently if they had the power.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Actually a very nice hymn for the radical right to sing together. As Dick Armey, Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh sing various featured verses and extol all the mythology. Listening to that set of people falling all over them selves complementing each other, one might think we they were talking about a pile of saints, but each of them are mean and vindictive liars with feet of clay. And as total agreement among the radical right is accomplished, and as those with defective ideas are purged, PJABBER and friends can take their ideas to the American electorate and get their usual 20% of the vote.

To start with, its may be all well and fine to be personally pro life, but when such a candidate says they will make it into the law of the land, the radical right loses the majority of the votes right there. And it takes that 50% or more to win elections.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Where were they?

They were here, sitting on their couches, eating Big Macs and watching Nascar.

The straw that broke the camel's back was a black man getting elected President, and his party controlling Congress. The nutters couldn't handle that.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Many of the lefty posters here at P&N confuse conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals with Republicans.

That's funny. No one here is confusing the righty posters here, the only hard part is figuring out who you guys are from account to account. It's hard to tell the reborn pabsters from the corbetts from the heartsurgons. That's the only confusion...
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
Originally posted by: Robor
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: TheSkinsFanFuck the D's and R's.

This.

LOL @ all of you who point fingers from the sidelines and think their politicians would act differently if they had the power.

The problem is politicians.

Oh, and LOL @ you who is content with the status quo of corruption by Democrats and Republicans.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: PJABBER
Many of the lefty posters here at P&N confuse conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals with Republicans.

That's funny. No one here is confusing the righty posters here, the only hard part is figuring out who you guys are from account to account. It's hard to tell the reborn pabsters from the corbetts from the heartsurgons. That's the only confusion...

Don't forget BarryButterBeanSotero.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
So the Republicans suck (no news story there) and the "true conservatives" are going to marginalize themselves by eschewing the Republican party for some ridiculous third party nonsense? Awseome! Keep up the good work. I look forward to a fractured and splintered wing-nut voting trend in 2010 and 2012.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: P-Blabber
But since the Republicans abrogated their "Contract With America" by becoming a Party of big government and big spending and thus supplanting the traditional positions of the Democrats who were, in turn, taken over by their own radical wing of self described Maoists and social welfare pacifist greens, neither Party winds up being especially appealing.
Bwwwwaahhahahahahahahaaha! <breathe> ahahahahahahahaahaha!

Dude? Do you even read the mentally-challenged crap you spew?! You owe me another cup o' Peets for making me spit-take all over my monitor.
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
3,189
0
76
Funny, you weren't complaining when the Republican party controlled all THREE branches of government just 4 years ago. They definitely demonstrated the ability to govern wisely *snort*.

What really cracks me up is that "the right" things everyone on "the left" is the same, when trying to objectively look at anything reveals that it's the Democratic party that has more colors to it than the Republican one. Do you know why your party is losing elections? Because you are pushing every single moderate OUT. This country may be center-right, but it isn't FAR right, and until you guys clue in you will continue to fail. Here's a news flash: Far Left liberals are a MINORITY in the Democratic party. The Progressive and Blue Dog coalitions are roughly the same in size.

Just look at the issues. How many pro-choice Republican Senators or Congressman are left compared to Pro-Life Democrats? Which party is struggling to have all its factions line up to support/not support health care reform? This idea that everyone who is a Democrat thinks the same just doesn't pass the smell test. The Republican party on the other hand looks like a bunch of mindless, hypocritical, unintellectual, ignorant...sheep.

In the Republican party you've got two basic ideologies. You've got Neo-Conservatives and Social Conservatives. Classical Conservatives no longer exist in any substantial number, and the Libertarian movement is basically limited to Ron Paul. If those two later groups could gain control of the Republican party, than maybe I would believe the "Republicans support small government" mantra the right keeps spewing. The fact of the matter is when in power, the Republican party is the OPPOSITE of small government. Christ, they intervened in the end-of-life decision of a single person! (Terry Shiavo). Now they spend a bunch of their time targeting a SINGLE organization, ACORN. How much bigger government can you possibly get?

Until every single Republican Congressman or Senator (sans Ron Paul) is actually replaced with a real libertarian or Conservative candidate, I'm not going to believe a single word anyone says about the Republican party being for small government. The Neo-Cons and Social-Cons need to go. If you think Sarah Palin is a conservative, you need to get your head out of your ass. She bankrupted the only thing she ever ran before becoming governor. She advocates a more confrontational foreign policy. That is NOT Conservatism, and I for one am sick of having it hijacked by idiots. You want to know why I vote Democrat? Because we've got more actual god damn conservatives than the "Conservative" party! See Blue Dog coalition.

So please, stop insulting my intelligence with this tripe.

This guy has it exactly right:
http://www.riponsociety.org/forum409j.htm