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Rev Wright on Bill Moyers Journal (PBS)

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,969
3,757
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Craig... I am sure these 'bigoted' people you talk too also come across as impressive in the right context. You don't become a Hagee or a Robertson without some significant level of talent.

And let's not forget the basic fact that the left likes to take them out of context and attack them in the same way the right has been going after Wright.

At the end of the day I expect the Wright affair will be a very small moment in a larger campaign. But it could end up being similar to Kerry walking out on stage and declaring that he is 'ready for duty' and saluting the crowd. It wasn't a significant moment, but it was enough to make people go 'what is he thinking' and when his war record and actions after the war came to light people really started to question whether they wanted Kerry as their President.

In the end people will look at Wright, Ayers, his wives comments, the flag pin thing and it will make them uneasy about voting for Obama. Then they will look at a very electable John McCain and may decide that they 'trust' McCain in a way they don't trust Obama.
You are a Bush supporter. You supported the biggest disaster ever to hit the American Presidency. Will you please have the decency to shoot yourself before you have any more political opinions, especially ones related to a subject like trust, where you have been nowhere but out to lunch?
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,207
65
91
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You are a Bush supporter. You supported the biggest disaster ever to hit the American Presidency. Will you please have the decency to shoot yourself before you have any more political opinions, especially ones related to a subject like trust, where you have been nowhere but out to lunch?
If you're advocating that all Bush supporters commit suicide, eh, well then, I really don't know what to say.

Maybe, take a deep breath, Moonie?


 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,073
385
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Craig... I am sure these 'bigoted' people you talk too also come across as impressive in the right context. You don't become a Hagee or a Robertson without some significant level of talent.

And let's not forget the basic fact that the left likes to take them out of context and attack them in the same way the right has been going after Wright.

At the end of the day I expect the Wright affair will be a very small moment in a larger campaign. But it could end up being similar to Kerry walking out on stage and declaring that he is 'ready for duty' and saluting the crowd. It wasn't a significant moment, but it was enough to make people go 'what is he thinking' and when his war record and actions after the war came to light people really started to question whether they wanted Kerry as their President.

In the end people will look at Wright, Ayers, his wives comments, the flag pin thing and it will make them uneasy about voting for Obama. Then they will look at a very electable John McCain and may decide that they 'trust' McCain in a way they don't trust Obama.
You are a Bush supporter. You supported the biggest disaster ever to hit the American Presidency. Will you please have the decency to shoot yourself before you have any more political opinions, especially ones related to a subject like trust, where you have been nowhere but out to lunch?
Ahhhh....the only reason that you want him to shoot himself, is because you want to shoot yourself. Selfhate moonie, selfhate. Seriously though, no matter how much you want to, please don't shoot yourself.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,991
2
0
I have to agree that the somewhat thinking person will see Wright as a person whose comments were taken out of context
and therefore the swift boat of Rev Wright will fail with that set.

But there is the other set who will remember nothing past God Damn America. I believe its imperative for Obama to confront the Wright issue head on and prove he is right rather than take the easy pander and say I disavow some selective things. Only with the former case can Obama prove that the quotes of Rev Wright are unfair.

I think its never been clearer to the American people on how simple minded ideology can lead the country into huge mistakes. And they want a leader that speaks to the complexities of the issues. And John McCain still has to defend any idea of stay the course and can't run on being a smarter GWB who gets it better on a few select points.

The point being, Obama got it right on the Iraq war and McCain did not. And not making the mistake in the first place
is what matters. The country is on the wrong course because of defects in assumptions, and bad public policy always fails.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,314
3,377
136
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Hafen
Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, you people really gonna take a pre-scripted interview, something Wright knows people is gonna be watching, and make a judgment base on that?

Well, I guess when you have made up your mind to support Obama, you'd accept anything that make him look good, or not as bad.
Yes, brilliant insight. Its a far greater sign of enlightenment to watched pre-filtered, pre-packaged, commercially and politically engineered snip-its of contrived outrage repeatedly hammered into my brain and call it learning. Fast food Media at its finest.

Interwebbers seem to often confuse cynicism with intelligence.
I didn't make my judgment based on sound bites or fast food media. I made my judgment based on the fact that Obama himself didn't even defend Wright and his view. But hey, you must know more then Obama himself after watching this interview and see nothing with Wright and his view.
NP then, pardon my attack. I read your post as superficial and dismissive as some of the others. I too thought Obama unfairly abandoned some of Wright's comments due to political expediency. The soundbites of the sermons follow quite well with the overall messages and ideologies of his sermons, but need to be seen in full and in context to be fully realized.

His teaching obviously influence Obama a great deal, and do have intellectual merit (tho disagreeable at times.) Obama just abandoning the harsh soundbites, and pretending he never heard something like this, and ergo it is in fact as offensive as the cable networks would leave you to believe, is just dishonest. Obama knows full well what he is saying, but I think he's trying to take the easy road of dismissing and disowning them, rather than trying to explain them to the larger populace in a critical and insightful way (which is never easy, esp during a political campaign.) This will not work, as the ads in NC are already forecasting, so Obama needs to publicly own Wright as much as he really does in private. He needs to be out in front to destroy the strawman the RNC will certainly make him out to be.

I don't believe this interview was scripted by the Obama campaign. While it lifts Wright, it actually makes Obama look smaller and a less honest politician (as Wright would say.)
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,314
3,377
136
Case in point: In regards to Wright's 9/11 sermon and the "America's chickens have come home to roost"

Watching the full sermon, I understand what Wright was trying to demonstrate from the Biblical teachings (the "Dashing your enemies babies' heads on rocks") verse.

IE. Violence begets violence. America has repeated acted violently towards our enemies, and at times has committed violence not always to the armies (permissable), but to the children and the innocent, either as an intention or consequence (condemnable by God.) We have perpetrated the same outrage to others what we experienced during 9/11, but just now are we outraged to what has happened to us. Rarely do we see the blood on our own hands. God warned against this sort of behavior, and we are suffering for it.

Also, he is prophetic to the future and the response to our anger. He demonstrates God warns against being angry, against turning our thirst for vengeance back to the "babies of our enemies." We have a choice in how to respond, and if we act in the later, we will again be condemned by God, the cycle of violence will continue, and we again suffer for it.

I think the Iraq War can be understood in this context (and Obama's opposition towards it.) In our anger we allowed ourselves to be taken to war against a people that were innocent to the "original" crime (9/11) on the promise it would be easy, quick, cheap and painless. We killed not just Saddam's armies, but thousands of civilians, and have unleashed unspeakable terror. While we are not the ones committing so much of the tragedies, we did get the ball rolling, and have plenty of blood on our hands.

Now we are entranched in a war w/ no good outcome, and our blood, sweat, and treasure is being spent at a alarming rate. God warned us and we didn't listen. God has comdemned us, but that is not to say God has forsaken us. We must learn. We always have a chance redemption bc of God's love for all.

Also, it should be remembered this is also true for our enemies. They too commit violence and are also punishable in God's eyes. They are suffering for their savagery as well, and will not get past it w/o changing. The sword swings both ways.

*I'm not a Christian or religious, but I understand the thinking well enough. I don't see a Big Man in the Sky controlling all of this, but the sentiment has an air of truth. I'd assign a different causality, but the effect is the same. Its actually not that different from what Ron Paul was professing in his ideas of "blowback" in regards to foreign policy.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,308
1
81
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
watching now. Its a pretty interesting discussion.

Sorry hes not on FOX for some of you, i know how pbs tends to slant the issues :)
oh truest sarcasm... moyers is as bad as any of your fox targets... he should pitch for a softball team the way he handles libs...
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
watching now. Its a pretty interesting discussion.

Sorry hes not on FOX for some of you, i know how pbs tends to slant the issues :)
oh truest sarcasm... moyers is as bad as any of your fox targets... he should pitch for a softball team the way he handles libs...
You're kidding, right? Virtually every Fox News interview I've ever watched could not possibly be any more pandering to both the interviewer and the audience. Now I'll admit that Fox is hardly alone in terms of not asking "hardball" questions, but the difference is that Fox also basically fellates any Republican being interviewed. Softball questions are one thing, leading questions that basically make it clear that the "journalist" is in the tank for the guy being interviewed is a completely different thing.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,969
3,757
126
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Craig... I am sure these 'bigoted' people you talk too also come across as impressive in the right context. You don't become a Hagee or a Robertson without some significant level of talent.

And let's not forget the basic fact that the left likes to take them out of context and attack them in the same way the right has been going after Wright.

At the end of the day I expect the Wright affair will be a very small moment in a larger campaign. But it could end up being similar to Kerry walking out on stage and declaring that he is 'ready for duty' and saluting the crowd. It wasn't a significant moment, but it was enough to make people go 'what is he thinking' and when his war record and actions after the war came to light people really started to question whether they wanted Kerry as their President.

In the end people will look at Wright, Ayers, his wives comments, the flag pin thing and it will make them uneasy about voting for Obama. Then they will look at a very electable John McCain and may decide that they 'trust' McCain in a way they don't trust Obama.
You are a Bush supporter. You supported the biggest disaster ever to hit the American Presidency. Will you please have the decency to shoot yourself before you have any more political opinions, especially ones related to a subject like trust, where you have been nowhere but out to lunch?
Ahhhh....the only reason that you want him to shoot himself, is because you want to shoot yourself. Selfhate moonie, selfhate. Seriously though, no matter how much you want to, please don't shoot yourself.
I recommended suicide because you Bush supporters have no organic shame. You're oblivious to the fact your lack of judgment has enormously damaged the country. Naturally real justice would be you should all be shot for treason.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
Originally posted by: cubeless
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
watching now. Its a pretty interesting discussion.

Sorry hes not on FOX for some of you, i know how pbs tends to slant the issues :)
oh truest sarcasm... moyers is as bad as any of your fox targets... he should pitch for a softball team the way he handles libs...
Let's not forget the fact that Moyers worked for both Kennedy and Johnson.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,299
127
106
oh my god now PBS is slanted?!!

you guys are too funny. You will just have to forgive him for not asking leading/loaded questions, straw man arguments, and personal attacks ala you favorite FOxnews trash reporter.

 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,299
127
106
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Hafen
Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, you people really gonna take a pre-scripted interview, something Wright knows people is gonna be watching, and make a judgment base on that?

Well, I guess when you have made up your mind to support Obama, you'd accept anything that make him look good, or not as bad.
Yes, brilliant insight. Its a far greater sign of enlightenment to watched pre-filtered, pre-packaged, commercially and politically engineered snip-its of contrived outrage repeatedly hammered into my brain and call it learning. Fast food Media at its finest.

Interwebbers seem to often confuse cynicism with intelligence.
I didn't make my judgment based on sound bites or fast food media. I made my judgment based on the fact that Obama himself didn't even defend Wright and his view. But hey, you must know more then Obama himself after watching this interview and see nothing with Wright and his view.
well I think that is quite honest of you to say. I also think it is quite stupid of you to base your judgement on the fact that Obama didn't defend Wright and his views. Because if Obama defended Wright and his views then he would have been labeled a racist/anti-american even moreso than he already is being labeled as such.

He could never win in that scenario but boy I am certain that people would have loved to see him try.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,547
0
76
From this video, my favorite line of Wright's is "...this is biblical-historical fact..."

then again, this is only funny to me because I think the stories in the Bible are mostly fictitious...

Anyways, I still don't like Wright... but it won't stop me from supporting Obama.

 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
obama did the right thing I believe in distancing himself. Most news channels would just grab more sound bites of his deeper explanation and it would kill him. I DO give him credit for not disowning this man. That did take mighty big ball to do it when he did and his race speech i think has more meaning to me.

Also let me add that Hafens last post was exceptional and right on the money. I am an atheist but I do think there is some wisdom in those old books.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
Originally posted by: palehorse74
From this video, my favorite line of Wright's is "...this is biblical-historical fact..."

then again, this is only funny to me because I think the stories in the Bible are mostly fictitious...

Anyways, I still don't like Wright... but it won't stop me from supporting Obama.
Creationism is a 'biblical-historical-fact' but most of the left calls anyone who says that a nut on here.

But somehow Wright gets a pass because he is on their side.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
0
Here is another great quote by Wright
We cannot see how what we are doing is the same thing al-Qaeda is doing under a different color flag, calling on the name a different God to sanction and approve our murder and our mayhem!
Obama is doomed.

Right or wrong people will remember the sound bites and forget the 'context.'
Just ask John ?I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.? Kerry if you don't believe me.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,299
127
106
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Here is another great quote by Wright
We cannot see how what we are doing is the same thing al-Qaeda is doing under a different color flag, calling on the name a different God to sanction and approve our murder and our mayhem!
Obama is doomed.

Right or wrong people will remember the sound bites and forget the 'context.'
Just ask John ?I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.? Kerry if you don't believe me.
what he is saying is mostly right, except AlQ is not a world super power government.

I am glad you think this is a great quote nonProf.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,276
103
106
Sorry OP, no matter how many fluff pieces anyone does trying to "humanize" him and show his strengths etc, he is still a racist and a cook spewing forth theories about how the US government created AIDS etc etc. He's a racist nut, and Obama's connection to him will cost him dearly. I personally know several people who were considering voting for him who changed their minds based on Wright, and I'm certain they will not be swayed the other way again. Obama= toast.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,852
14,003
136
And this attempt at transferrance of what Wright has said to Obama is really quite transparently lame, PJ.

I noticed that you didn't offer that Wright's comment, above, wasn't true, either, just that it won't sell to the knee-jerk faithful... which is only ~25% of the voters, if that. Used to be more, but the deceptions and total ineptitude of the current admin have made more people wary of shiny packaged sound-bite politics.

As Bill Clinton once pointed out, when people are thinking, that's good for Democrats, and repubs own words and deeds have, indeed, caused lots of people to try it... Doublespeak and fearmongering lose their impact over time...
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,826
22,000
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Here is another great quote by Wright
We cannot see how what we are doing is the same thing al-Qaeda is doing under a different color flag, calling on the name a different God to sanction and approve our murder and our mayhem!
Obama is doomed.

Right or wrong people will remember the sound bites and forget the 'context.'
Just ask John ?I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.? Kerry if you don't believe me.
Yeah, because that was what sank Kerry's candidacy. Hahaha. Kerry was, simply put, a poor campaigner. He had no charisma, he had no concept of how to use the media, he had a bunch of medals and the fact that he wasn't Bush. Even these things almost got him the presidency. (which speaks to how entrenched the two party system as much as it does to how little people liked Bush) It was a stupid 'gotcha' moment that meant very little in the larger campaign.

I'm starting to get a feeling of desperation from you Pro-Jo. To be clinging this tightly to something so few people care about seems strange. I know you want the Republicans to win in November and so I'm sure you are looking for ways to believe it can happen. I hate to break it to you, but while it is certainly possible it is very unlikely that McCain can beat Obama. The reputation of the Republican party has NEVER been lower, the numbers of registered Republicans has gone in the toilet. His own party is not particularly unified behind him even after he's secured the nomination. He is suffering a humiliating fundraising deficit. His positions on the economy and the war are wildly unpopular.

These aren't small things, these are the fundamentals of any campaign.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,471
1
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy

Yeah, because that was what sank Kerry's candidacy. Hahaha. Kerry was, simply put, a poor campaigner. He had no charisma, he had no concept of how to use the media, he had a bunch of medals and the fact that he wasn't Bush.
Oddly enough, if you see Kerry on the stump for Obama these days, he's quite charismatic...

Not sure why he could never bring it when he was running...
 

Buck Armstrong

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2004
2,016
0
0
Originally posted by: tagej
Sorry OP, no matter how many fluff pieces anyone does trying to "humanize" him and show his strengths etc, he is still a racist and a cook spewing forth theories about how the US government created AIDS etc etc. He's a racist nut, and Obama's connection to him will cost him dearly. I personally know several people who were considering voting for him who changed their minds based on Wright, and I'm certain they will not be swayed the other way again. Obama= toast.
I also know several people who loved Obama before, and now refuse to even consider voting for him because of the Wright thing. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but in the whole political/media spin, people do judge candidates on relatively trivial stuff like this, and Wright's comments definitely hurt Obama's chances...whether his supporters here or elsewhere want to admit it or not, its just a sad fact.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,926
18
81
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: tagej
Sorry OP, no matter how many fluff pieces anyone does trying to "humanize" him and show his strengths etc, he is still a racist and a cook spewing forth theories about how the US government created AIDS etc etc. He's a racist nut, and Obama's connection to him will cost him dearly. I personally know several people who were considering voting for him who changed their minds based on Wright, and I'm certain they will not be swayed the other way again. Obama= toast.
I also know several people who loved Obama before, and now refuse to even consider voting for him because of the Wright thing. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but in the whole political/media spin, people do judge candidates on relatively trivial stuff like this, and Wright's comments definitely hurt Obama's chances...whether his supporters here or elsewhere want to admit it or not, its just a sad fact.
Obama supporters on this forum are blind to any and all weaknesses in Obama's campaign. They've explained away every criticism, justified every misspoken word, rationalized every unsavory vote or position he's ever taken. The man is Jesus to them. It is definitely sad when you cannot admit any faults at all in your candidate.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,826
22,000
136
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: tagej
Sorry OP, no matter how many fluff pieces anyone does trying to "humanize" him and show his strengths etc, he is still a racist and a cook spewing forth theories about how the US government created AIDS etc etc. He's a racist nut, and Obama's connection to him will cost him dearly. I personally know several people who were considering voting for him who changed their minds based on Wright, and I'm certain they will not be swayed the other way again. Obama= toast.
I also know several people who loved Obama before, and now refuse to even consider voting for him because of the Wright thing. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but in the whole political/media spin, people do judge candidates on relatively trivial stuff like this, and Wright's comments definitely hurt Obama's chances...whether his supporters here or elsewhere want to admit it or not, its just a sad fact.
Obama supporters on this forum are blind to any and all weaknesses in Obama's campaign. They've explained away every criticism, justified every misspoken word, rationalized every unsavory vote or position he's ever taken. The man is Jesus to them. It is definitely sad when you cannot admit any faults at all in your candidate.
I haven't gotten that impression at all. What unsavory positions/votes are you talking about? As far as misspoken words go, I assume you are referring to the 'bitter' comment, which I pretty much completely agree with. (hell, I spent 19 years in PA. I have a pretty good idea of how people there think)
 

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