Rev. Billy Graham, dead at 99

[Hayabusa Rider]

If you believe the word its ZERO!
Matthew 19:24
New International Version
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

You might want to quote the rest of that bit for full context.

 

[Puffnstuff]

You might want to quote the rest of that bit for full context.

If you keep the following two verses in context they pertain to the act of being saved. Jesus explicitly outlined that a rich man cannot be saved not because it isn't possible through God but because he doesn't want it. Rich people feel like they are in want for nothing and when it comes to the riches of this world that is true. Its been my own personal experience that 99.99% of the people who call themselves christians are not.

Matthew 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV)
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[Perknose]

Felt a little bad for having such a superficial knowledge of this particular conman, so I did a little research and found this comprehensive summary of his life:

I don't think this is a "comprehensive summary" of his life, but it sure is a devastating critique. Hitchens' brilliance and moral center shine through, and I can't but agree with most every single point of his critique of Graham, even as it doesn't include "some" genuine good Graham may have done during his time here on earth.

I have no use for the Old Testament, authoritarian, bigoted, regressive, "dog and pony show" brand of Christianity that Graham espoused and promoted, and I say this as, personally, a man of "faith." It's just that my "faith" accepts Christopher Hitchens as a fellow traveler on the uncertain road to understanding "what is" far more than Billy Graham's.

The man was an anti-Semite of the crudest variety, and this discussion could end right there.

But every single one of us humans is flawed, many of us deeply so. So, I, as a man of (my own brand of inclusive and humane) faith, wish to acknowledge that the Rev. Billy Graham, in his own deeply constricted and hideously flawed way, was also a fellow pilgrim on our eons-old road to understanding "what is."

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

nm

 

[Ajay]

If you keep the following two verses in context they pertain to the act of being saved. Jesus explicitly outlined that a rich man cannot be saved not because it isn't possible through God but because he doesn't want it. Rich people feel like they are in want for nothing and when it comes to the riches of this world that is true. Its been my own personal experience that 99.99% of the people who call themselves christians are not.

Seriously? 99.99%! Christians realize that they are sinners and are saved by the blood of Christ, not their own merits. Just because you consider someone to not be a Christian with your apparent inestimable powers, doesn't mean they aren't. This thread is getting a bit nuts.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Because he's a Jedi, and Yoda, but really just an all around tool.

I just thought (hoped?) that there might be more than that. <shrug>

 

[evident]

Seriously? 99.99%! Christians realize that they are sinners and are saved by the blood of Christ, not their own merits. Just because you consider someone to not be a Christian with your apparent inestimable powers, doesn't mean they aren't. This thread is getting a bit nuts.

Any Trump supporter is not a Christian in my book.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If you keep the following two verses in context they pertain to the act of being saved. Jesus explicitly outlined that a rich man cannot be saved not because it isn't possible through God but because he doesn't want it. Rich people feel like they are in want for nothing and when it comes to the riches of this world that is true. Its been my own personal experience that 99.99% of the people who call themselves christians are not.

Matthew 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV)
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

The second part isn't relevant to riches.

You claim that rich people can't get into the kingdom of heaven and that is untrue.

I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

Clearly this means that rich men aren't going to get into heaven on their own or BY their wealth, but that God makes for the possibility.

 

[JEDIYoda]

No, but that doesn't change the fact that BG was a bigoted asshole hiding behind the nonsense of the bible to justify his ignorant bigotry. Your excuse?

That also does not negate the lives that were changed because of his message.........does it??? Somewhere in the middle good was done and that is what counts!!

 

[MtnMan]

That also does not negate the lives that were changed because of his message.........does it??? Somewhere in the middle good was done and that is what counts!!

Teaching people a system of hatred is not good.

 

[ch33zw1z]

That also does not negate the lives that were changed because of his message.........does it??? Somewhere in the middle good was done and that is what counts!!

This is debateable to no end

 

[JEDIYoda]

This is debateable to no end

It`s only debatable if you are an unbeliever........
Believers won`t debate the subject, because there is no sense. Just ask somebody whose life has been changed by his message......

 

[darkswordsman17]

It`s only debatable if you are an unbeliever........
Believers won`t debate the subject, because there is no sense. Just ask somebody whose life has been changed by his message......

No, they won't debate it because they're cowards and choose to be willfully ignorant over condemning things worthy of actual condemnation. But hey, you're cool with it as long as they claim to be sucking down the same Jesus/GOD. You are right there is no sense. I know you really think what you're posting makes the total lack of sense you're actually using valid, but it just wholly shows you to be both intellectually and spiritually dishonest.

Isn't it funny though how the "only God can judge" goes out the window when they're doing the condemnation. Which, that logic, uh, Abrahamic religion following person being judges, kinda seems messed up, no?

 

[sportage]

Any Trump supporter is not a Christian in my book.

It is all "ALL" about control of the US Supreme Court.
Trump "could" kill someone, anyone, dead on the streets of NY and none of these religious Trump supporters would hold Donald accountable.
It would be amusing to see how his supporters would justify Trump actually killing someone.
Amazing the price one will sell their soul for in exchange of a little political advantage.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.
Rev. Billy Graham, dead at 99

 

[WelshBloke]

sO LET ME GUESS---YOUR GAY.......

hIS GAY WHAT?

 

[WelshBloke]

So is getting rich peddling religion to poor people an ethical career worthy of respect now?

Swapping money for the words of your religion just seems tacky.

 

[ch33zw1z]

It`s only debatable if you are an unbeliever........
Believers won`t debate the subject, because there is no sense. Just ask somebody whose life has been changed by his message......

I was raised pentacostal. It's debateable to honest people who aren't afraid to actually challenge themselves, and their beliefs.

 

[IronWing]

Still dead.

 

[Ajay]

So is getting rich peddling religion to poor people an ethical career worthy of respect now?

Swapping money for the words of your religion just seems tacky.

They are getting so rich because it’s not just the poor, but also people of means. That said, the whole prosperity gospel bit is a sham. It so goes against the teachings of the gospels that it's not even funny. I think there will be a reckoning at some point, or at least hope there will be. People deserve the truth of the gospels, not a lie.

 

[bshole]

They are getting so rich because it’s not just the poor, but also people of means. That said, the whole prosperity gospel bit is a sham. It so goes against the teachings of the gospels that it's not even funny. I think there will be a reckoning at some point, or at least hope there will be. People deserve the truth of the gospels, not a lie.

"Truth of the gospels" is perhaps an oxymoron. The truth of all religion is that for many humans it gives meaning, without which life would be unbearable to them. If anything sets us apart from all other animals, it is the absolute need for meaning in our lives.

For all of our discoveries and science, it can be argued quite eloquently that hunter/gatherers in the Amazon river basin live happier, healthier, more fulfilled lives than Westerners.

 

[Ajay]

"Truth of the gospels" is perhaps an oxymoron.

Well, that depends entirely on whether or not one has faith or not. History only starts getting reliable with the early church Fathers, not Christ and the apostles. Faith, which is based on something supernatural, doesn’t lend itself to exploration by natural sciences. Personally, faith in some greater 'other' wasn’t there until it was. I can’t explain it other than to say it was real for me. It was a strange event for this trained scientist.

 

[bshole]

Well, that depends entirely on whether or not one has faith or not. History only starts getting reliable with the early church Fathers, not Christ and the apostles. Faith, which is based on something supernatural, doesn’t lend itself to exploration by natural sciences. Personally, faith in some greater 'other' wasn’t there until it was. I can’t explain it other than to say it was real for me. It was a strange event for this trained scientist.

Technically, faith is belief without any physical evidence. Without physical evidence, the chances of faith matching physical reality are almost non-existent. Why would a God punish a human for eternity because of their inability to believe in things without evidence and in the face of a mountain of contradictory evidence? The only just description of such a God would be the most malignant and evil entity ever conceived by the mind of man. Seriously name another devil or evil being that comes within a country mile of this level of evil. Eternal torment for not being gullible (and without regard to the morality of your life)? Batshit insanity.

 

[Ajay]

Technically, faith is belief without any physical evidence. Without physical evidence, the chances of faith matching physical reality are almost non-existent. Why would a God punish a human for eternity because of their inability to believe in things without evidence and in the face of a mountain of contradictory evidence? The only just description of such a God would be the most malignant and evil entity ever conceived by the mind of man. Seriously name another devil or evil being that comes within a country mile of this level of evil. Eternal torment for not being gullible (and without regard to the morality of your life)? Batshit insanity.

I don’t know where you get your theology, but that just plain wrong. 1) God doesn’t send anyone to hell, they send themselves. 2) They are presented with evidence once they die. If they still reject Him, their options are pretty limited.

 

[bradly1101]

https://www.ajc.com/news/national/b...m-image-was-tarnished/DCj06gfORZJLYa30cLawWL/

Back in my grandpa's era it was even worse. The Jewish people I know are much smarter than I. I don't mean to imply a root genetic difference, and there's something about being humble in the face of intolerance that seems to inform intelligence.

So is it envy? Is it, "I need you down so I look better?" The human instincts of comparison and figuring people out and putting them in your boxes. The world could be a very different place...

To his followers I guess he's otherwise untarnished, and when I went to church (as an invited adult - my parents were godless which left open Zen Buddhism - not a religion in the common definition) they gave me a little cup with what looked and tasted like grape juice but was supposed to be wine representing the blood of the savior, and indeed He could turn a perfectly healthy beverage into something that can rip lives and families apart. And you look around the world and the West; where Mr. Graham's religion exists also exists rampant alcohol abuse. Saint Patrick has a drunken day.

And my Gay Pride Parade is really the Jagermeister Gay Pride Parade.

Tarnished one time? It seems like the whole idea is tarnished not unlike American Empire and giving advice and trying to control. Imagine the Buddha or the Dalai Lama yelling over a PA what was wrong with your life. Hmmm. Morality comes naturally or it is beaten or drunk out of you. I don't think Billy's words turned many murderers into Saints.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Technically, faith is belief without any physical evidence. Without physical evidence, the chances of faith matching physical reality are almost non-existent. Why would a God punish a human for eternity because of their inability to believe in things without evidence and in the face of a mountain of contradictory evidence? The only just description of such a God would be the most malignant and evil entity ever conceived by the mind of man. Seriously name another devil or evil being that comes within a country mile of this level of evil. Eternal torment for not being gullible (and without regard to the morality of your life)? Batshit insanity.

Just keep in mind, God is a humble being. He only requires you dedicate your entire being to him, love him over everything else unconditionally, stand in awe of his magnificence, and bow down to worship him over all else.

Or you shall be punished, for the transgressions of his imperfect creations. I eat an apple everyday, so I deserve it.