retiring NYT editor charges "liberal bias"

[monovillage]

I do like the way that the OP puts <liberal bias> in quotation marks, as if the author of the article actually used the term. He didn't.

Here you go Jhhnn, in my 3rd link in the OP.

The executive editor of the New York Times is disputing an accusation of liberal bias made by her very own public editor, Arthur Brisbane.

Is this your 2nd lie in this thread?

 

[blankslate]

Charges of "liberal biased" aimed at the media have always seemed to me like a convenient excuse to ignore stories and facts that some conservatives would rather not have to deal with.

As for this particular case, I can't help but noticing that this one person in the media (who OF COURSE conservatives are going to believe while ignoring everyone else in the media who isn't saying what they want to hear) is able to make his charge on the pages of the "liberal media" titan he's railing against. If the NYT is biased, they're not doing a very good job of it...

One thing that's not really debatable though is that journalists in general DO tend to be more liberal than conservative (which is stupidly taken as proof of bias by people who don't understand the word "professionalism").

Not to mention the fact that newspaper readership is down. When it comes to a lot of televised news it's owned by big corporations. If you don't think that the more liberal journalists aren't pressured to not be so liberal you must have your head so far up Fox New's ass that it's a wonder that you can even hear the Fox New's talking points

 

[Jhhnn]

Here you go Jhhnn, in my 3rd link in the OP.



Is this your 2nd lie in this thread?

Brisbane did not use the term "liberal bias", although you seem to claim that he did. Others used that term, not Brisbane.

 

[monovillage]

Not to mention the fact that newspaper readership is down. When it comes to a lot of televised news it's owned by big corporations. If you don't think that the more liberal journalists aren't pressured to not be so liberal you must have your head so far up Fox New's ass that it's a wonder that you can even hear the Fox New's talking points

There's a difference. I'm honest and have no problem saying that Fox News is biased.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Show me your studies baby. In a more serious note, show me the study/studies you are citing.

Been there done that, try the forum search tool.

Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States

The quick summary: coverage tends to be centrist, and reports of predominant bias one way or the other are waaayyyy overblown.

On the other hand, perception of bias is an easy way to discredit something without having to take a hard look at what you believe in, a great example would be Climate Science or Evolution.

To quote Ken Silverstein:

"insistence on ‘balance’ is totally misleading and leads to utterly spineless reporting with no edge . . . I am completely exasperated by this approach to the news. The idea seems to be that we go out to report but when it comes time to write we turn our brains off and repeat the spin from both sides. God forbid we should . . . attempt to fairly assess what we see with our own eyes. “Balanced” is not fair, it’s just an easy way of avoiding real reporting and shirking our responsibility to inform readers"

 

[monovillage]

"Way overblown" or in the case of other studies "measurable" indicate, in fact totally supports, the premise that there is media bias. You can't provide a study that shows there is no media bias because such a study doesn't exist.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Sorry for the poor wording, you are correct, I should have said no studies show clear media bias for one side of the political spectrum versus another.

So saying "clear liberal media bias" or "clear conservative media bias" would be false.

 

[rayfieldclement]

Charges of "liberal biased" aimed at the media have always seemed to me like a convenient excuse to ignore stories and facts that some conservatives would rather not have to deal with. This seems pretty likely since the right has also managed to detect "liberal bias" in schools and science. Taken together, those charges of bias seem to very conveniently allow conservatives to think whatever they want without pesky experts or facts getting in the way. If liberal bias exists the way some conservatives say it does, it's truly the most fortunate circumstance in the history of political debate.

As for this particular case, I can't help but noticing that this one person in the media (who OF COURSE conservatives are going to believe while ignoring everyone else in the media who isn't saying what they want to hear) is able to make his charge on the pages of the "liberal media" titan he's railing against. If the NYT is biased, they're not doing a very good job of it...

One thing that's not really debatable though is that journalists in general DO tend to be more liberal than conservative (which is stupidly taken as proof of bias by people who don't understand the word "professionalism"). Given the importance of the news media in a democracy...you have to wonder, where are all the conservatives? For all the right-wing complaints about bias in the media, I can't help but noticing that the main conservative contribution to the media are organizations like Fox News that end up far surpassing any claims of bias against the "liberal" mainstream media.

I think the conservatives are on the internet at places like

http://www.wnd.com

http://www.newsmax.com

http://www.frontpagemag.com

and
http://www.thenewamerican.com

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I personally believe that the mainstream media is left-leaning.

Bias is pretty much avoidable.

Still, left-leaning is better than being way out in right field. The problem is that right-wingers say "the NY Times is biased!" and then get their news from Sean Hannity.

 

[monovillage]

Sorry for the poor wording, you are correct, I should have said no studies show clear media bias for one side of the political spectrum versus another.

So saying "clear liberal media bias" or "clear conservative media bias" would be false.

Not exactly, this story shows clear media bias in the New York Times. I have no problem pointing out the bias of Fox News. My main problem is with people that refuse to admit there is bias in the media and that for the mainstream media it basically favors the Democratic Party. It's not exactly an earthshaking claim.

 

[DominionSeraph]

"Way overblown" or in the case of other studies "measurable" indicate, in fact totally supports, the premise that there is media bias.

Every delineation is biased. X is not NOT X, and the definition of X can be anything. Even a random output is biased by the range of possible outputs -- even the ability to output anything is still biased: biased against specificity.

*yawn*

 

[DominionSeraph]

Why even spout this foolishness?

That question doesn't define what set of values the implication of negative correspondence references.
If you want a direct answer, write a better question.

Do you really think claims of mental superiority are how you win a debate?

"win a debate"
Contrast to the imagery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKu-UCBs_AI&t=0m13s

How would the meaning of wielding the power of Mjolnir, metaphorically, in that realm of debate compare to that of a real Zangetsu?
(Suspension of disbelief. Can you follow?)

A win is defined by the outcome's relation to a value. What value are you under the illusion that is in play, and what set of values supports its meaningfulness?
Or, to start with the full set: "What is the meaning of life?" We can whittle it down from there.


A "win" in P&N?

Excuse me while I go inform my Mommy, pin a gold star to my paper, and write it in my permanent record.
Or not.

Your argument is based on stupidity and bigotry, and it comes from a fellow with some very serious issues.

Unsupported assertion to the first, and why are you referring to me in the second and third person in the same sentence? Oh, I'm sorry, did you not catch yourself as you switched to your attempt dazzle your imagined greater audience with an ad hominem? Ad hominem... wow, I see you brought out the big guns for support there.

Don't put on airs if you're gonna pull that weak sauce. If you're going to imply that you're better than me, be better. "Worse" just doesn't have the same ring to it, and listening to it tends to bore me.

I witnessed the freak show you posted at the other place, I know what you are.

Inability to conceive of how one may be wrong does not confer infallibility.
"I know." LOL. Child, check yourself.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not exactly, this story shows clear media bias in the New York Times. I have no problem pointing out the bias of Fox News. My main problem is with people that refuse to admit there is bias in the media and that for the mainstream media it basically favors the Democratic Party. It's not exactly an earthshaking claim.

Your claim that the mainstream media is biased towards Democrats on balance is mere assertion, just what you want to believe.

And if it truly is, that's because, as has been half jokingly asserted many, many times, facts have a liberal bias.

When the Romney campaign gets stinky about $700B cut from medicare, it's not liberal bias to point out that the Ryan budget does the same.

When the Romney budget consist largely of tax cuts for the rich and a massive dose of vague promises & snake oil, it's not liberal bias to point that out.

When Kurt Akin makes absurd claims wrt women's reproduction, it's not liberal bias to point out the absurdity.

When birtherism affects a fair % of the Repub faithful, it's not liberal bias to point out that they're out of their minds.

When Righties get their facts straight, then the "Liberal Media" won't have a professional obligation to set the record straight.

 

[Moonbeam]

It appears that conformational bias is a conservative trait just as reliance on fact is a liberal one. So it seems that conservatives are destined to see facts as having a liberal bias, and fact seekers as liberal. Liberal and journalistic fact based news, thus, to a liberal has a bias toward truth, whereas to a conservative it has a bias against alternative reality, the false truth they favor. This is a fact that conservatives can't see because they live in a world of happy delusions that confirm their way of thinking. One view is real and one is not. One is a happily sleeping citizen of the Matrix and one lives in the real world. We live in an age where the flight from the real world is just about complete, where a conservative can eat sleep and breathe almost nothing that isn't a part of his or her delusions.

 

[monovillage]

You meant confirmational bias Moonie.
http://www.skepdic.com/confirmbias.html

I'll admit it's something I possess and acknowledge, too bad so few liberal/Democrats admit the same.

 

[Moonbeam]

You meant confirmational bias Moonie.
http://www.skepdic.com/confirmbias.html

I'll admit it's something I possess and acknowledge, too bad so few liberal/Democrats admit the same.

It requires some kind of integrity to admit which is why, I think, a non hostile environment can encourage it, like therapy, where one has to overcome resistances before being able to open up. In therapy, folk encourage each other to open up but on this forum folk are looking for weaknesses in others to exploit. I did mean confirmational bias, but my spell checker didn't know the word and I thought I typed it wrong, hehe. I couldn't actually make a spelling mistake. It would be to humiliating.

 

[monovillage]

It requires some kind of integrity to admit which is why, I think, a non hostile environment can encourage it, like therapy, where one has to overcome resistances before being able to open up. In therapy, folk encourage each other to open up but on this forum folk are looking for weaknesses in others to exploit. I did mean confirmational bias, but my spell checker didn't know the word and I thought I typed it wrong, hehe. I couldn't actually make a spelling mistake. It would be to humiliating.

wha, wha, you mean this isn't therapy????!!!!!??

 

[DominionSeraph]

You meant confirmational bias Moonie.
http://www.skepdic.com/confirmbias.html

I'll admit it's something I possess and acknowledge, too bad so few liberal/Democrats admit the same.

It's admitted every second of every day by every right-minded person. If you think it is only something that happens occasionally, and think that the act of admitting to it when you become aware of an instance wipes it away and returns you to a state of perfect perception, you're doing it wrong.

There is no getting away from confirmation bias. The shadow of incomplete information lies over everything. You must hold yourself in a state of uncertainty, seek to disprove your beliefs, and always be prepared to incorporate the piece of information that can change everything. Doing so incorporates the admission into every examination. -- there's no reason to say any more when anyone with a brain knows it's a given, and those without one can't grasp the concept.

 

[umbrella39]

Thank God we have the "liberal media" to provide facts and news without a side helping of slant. Someone has to dispel all the bullshit and outright lies that spew from the mouths of right wing talking heads and neoconservative media outlets. Sadly the west nile spray doesn't not work on these bugs that cry all the time about how the truth has a liberal slant to it.

 

[Moonbeam]

wha, wha, you mean this isn't therapy????!!!!!??

No, in therapy you need to feel what you believe to be true without believing that what you feel is true. Here the name of the game is to believe that what you feel to be true, is true. In therapy you have to own what you feel and may not act out what you feel on other people. Were we are free to shit on anybody without taking responsibility for it. Because the rules of the forum allow this those with the least self respect rule. Such folk do not care who they hurt nor do the see it's their own pain they wish to inflict on others. You cannot run a liberal forum and invite conservatives in. The forum must have rules conservatives understand, things like accountability for poor behavior and no rewards for lack of effort. They must not be able to shit in a liberal bathroom just because they take a fancy to and not have to clean up. But on the other hand, liberals can't expect to convince them of this simply by appealing to liberal reason and then get all pissed off and insulting when they ignore it.

 

[Double Trouble]

What the guy said does not surprise me in the least, the Times is heavily liberal in most aspects. What surprises me is that they allowed this to be printed, further damaging the brand that is already highly shaky in terms of credibility.

 

[Matt1970]

facts have a liberal bias.

Cherrypicked fact can have whatever bias the journalist is aiming for.

When the Romney campaign gets stinky about $700B cut from medicare, it's not liberal bias to point out that the Ryan budget does the same.
.

It wouldn't be except the media didn't even bring up the 700B cut from Medicare untill the Republicans did.

When the Romney budget consist largely of tax cuts for the rich and a massive dose of vague promises & snake oil, it's not liberal bias to point that out.

If that is the way it is worded, then yes it is a liberal bias as the Romney budget has the same tax cuts for the middle class as it does fro the rich.

When Kurt Akin makes absurd claims wrt women's reproduction, it's not liberal bias to point out the absurdity.
.

No, but it is Liberal Bias to imply that the Republicans share his point of view when infact nearly all of them have called for him to pull out of the race.

When Righties get their facts straight, then the "Liberal Media" won't have a professional obligation to set the record straight.

Like I said, it's all in what facts you chose to use.

 

[PokerGuy]

Stop the presses, this is big news indeed! .... Or not. NYT is liberal, just like most other media outlets. In other news, water is wet.

This seems pretty likely since the right has also managed to detect "liberal bias" in schools and science.

Nice misrepresentation. As with journalism, there is absolutely no doubt that the vast majority in education are self identified liberals. That translates in liberal bias in most educational environments. That doesn't mean I'm in any way opposed to education, I think it's critical, but it should be free of bias. Science does not have a liberal bias, but liberals do love to misuse and misrepresent science to serve political agendas.

One thing that's not really debatable though is that journalists in general DO tend to be more liberal than conservative (which is stupidly taken as proof of bias by people who don't understand the word "professionalism").

Suuuuuuure, their personal ideology would never find it's way into their work, because they are professionals. So, you'd be fine having a KKK member teaching your kids in school, since they are professionals and would never let their racist views get in their work. You'd also be fine having your case in court heard by a judge who happens to be the brother of the other party in court, because they are after all professionals. How about the ref who walks in wearing the jersey and hat of one team, I'm sure he'd be impartial as well. If you think someone's ideology stays out of their work all the time and in no way influences their perspective -- especially in something as subjective as journalism -- you're delusional, pure and simple.

For all the right-wing complaints about bias in the media, I can't help but noticing that the main conservative contribution to the media are organizations like Fox News that end up far surpassing any claims of bias against the "liberal" mainstream media.

Fox news is essentially the other side of the coin. Pretty much the same as most of the other media, but slanted the other way.

True journalism is gone, now it's pretty much cheering for one team or another, and the team they cheer for just depends on which media outlet you choose to use.

 

[micrometers]

It's true. There are issues here and there that they are biased.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

At an Obama fundraiser last June, Les Moonves (head of the CBS news division) stated the obvious by saying, "ultimately journalism has changed...partisanship is very much a part of journalism now."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/06/nation/la-na-obama-gay-fundraiser-20120607

Yes, Virginia, there is media bias.