[Retired] The LCD Thread

[oPEEPINGTOMo]

Thanks for the reply xtknight, i had already picked up the LG L227WTG-PF, they wanted 339.99 at best buy for it, Fry's had it for 289.00 so i got them to price match since frys was another 20miles away. Anyways the monitor is great, and is definitely lag free.

I have another question, in regards to an a Flat Panel TV now, not monitor, what would be the best bet for something around a 50" with picture quality, input lag, and response time all at the top of the list of concerns. Also is there a particular brand that is better than others that seems to be good in all the concerned areas?

I know my dad has a 720p Sony LCD 46" which seems to be for the most part lag free, but two of my friends have 46" Samsungs, one 720p the other 1080p that are both really laggy, even when in game mode, which looks like crap by the way (game mode that is)

Any suggestions? Plasma vs LCD, One Brand vs Another, or just a couple of specific suggestions themselves.

THANKS!

 

[Orodreth]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
The NEC LCD2690wuxi is a dream monitor. I have one right now but I'm giving it to my parents. It's got an internal power supply and for such a large screen, it means you're gonna hear the transformer buzzing alot.

This is actually a very important factor. And given your extension audio setup signature, I would suspect the annoying transformer buzz is why you're trading off the NEC2690. All of the perceived bonuses of the NEC can be ignored if the monitor produces an audible buzz.

Thanks for the warning!

Has anyone purchased directly from Doublesight? What is their return policy?

 

[Centurin]

Originally posted by: Orodreth

Originally posted by: Astrallite
The NEC LCD2690wuxi is a dream monitor. I have one right now but I'm giving it to my parents. It's got an internal power supply and for such a large screen, it means you're gonna hear the transformer buzzing alot.

This is actually a very important factor. And given your extension audio setup signature, I would suspect the annoying transformer buzz is why you're trading off the NEC2690. All of the perceived bonuses of the NEC can be ignored if the monitor produces an audible buzz.

Thanks for the warning!

Has anyone purchased directly from Doublesight? What is their return policy?

From Doublesight's website

Our Policy regarding "Dead Pixels"
The TFT LCD panel consists of millions of small transistors. Defective transistors will each cause a missing red, green or blue dot. We follow the industry quality standard set by major LCD panel manufacturers. It is customary that some panels have a few defective transistors. These panels are not considered bad quality and you can use them without uneasiness. DoubleSight Displays considers more than seven (7) defective transistors per panel to be defective and thus eligible for repair within a three (3) year warranty period.

In other words, it sucks.

 

[zod96]

Does anybody else's LG L227WTG have a bouncy stand? My LG seems to wobble at the slightest vibration and movement. And man does this thing attract dust like crazy. Also when mine is changing screens, like when windows restarts I get a nice buzz sound from it. Anyone get stuff like this? Also when gaming what would most people prefer the LG or the MEC 20wmgx2

 

[geno]

If someone has a moment to read my story :

I ended up buying a Gateway FHD 2401 and it's been great so far, zero dead pixels, bright as the sun, and larger than I thought it'd be on my desk. I ended up deciding I wanted both HDMI and DVI inputs (just HDMI won't cut it as I don't have an HDMI video card and don't want to buy a converter) and was HDCP compliant. I bit the bullet on a TN paneled monitor even though I was shooting for a PVA/MVA panel. Now I'm sitting in front of it and I'm not too psyched about the viewing angle issue. What I mean by that is : the contrast /colors will vary depending on how high / low something is I'm looking at. If I open WinAmp, leaving it at the top of the screen leaves the visuals black and very dark. If I drag it to the bottom, the grays in the skin come out and it looks much better.

I love the monitor, but at $450 (or even 500) could I have found a PVA/MVA panel which gives me the inputs I want, and HDCP along with a decent price and is at least 24"?

Maybe I'm a noob at LCDs, but getting a definitive answer on what monitor has what kind of panel can be tough.

 

[Orodreth]

Originally posted by: Centurin

Originally posted by: Orodreth
Has anyone purchased directly from Doublesight? What is their return policy?

From Doublesight's website

Our Policy regarding "Dead Pixels":

The TFT LCD panel consists of millions of small transistors. Defective transistors will each cause a missing red, green or blue dot. We follow the industry quality standard set by major LCD panel manufacturers. It is customary that some panels have a few defective transistors. These panels are not considered bad quality and you can use them without uneasiness. DoubleSight Displays considers more than seven (7) defective transistors per panel to be defective and thus eligible for repair within a three (3) year warranty period.

In other words, it sucks.

NEC does not post a dead pixel count return policy online,
and I did not bother to call customer service and wait on the phone to find out the answer...
http://www.necdisplay.com/Supp...cePolicies/?section=ds
but I presume it must be industry standard 5-7 or higher, if they are shy about stating it visibly.


PLANAR.COM SUPPORT - ONLINE CUSTOMER SUPPORT FAQ...

Question:

What are non-responding, stuck, or "dead", pixels and what do I do if I see one on my monitor?

Answer:

Non-responsive, or "dead", pixels are tiny colored bright spots or tiny dark spots on an LCD panel. They are caused by the transistor element (1 for each red, green, and blue sub-pixel in a pixel) failing to operate properly. This is generally considered (by industry standards) NOT to be cause for repair or replacement of the LCD panel, unless a large enough number is seen on the screen.

On an SXGA monitor there are 1280 columns and 1024 rows of pixels, this equals 1.3M pixels. If you multiply by 3 (for the number of colors) you get 3.9 million sub-pixels. At a failure rate of just 1 part-per-million (or PPM), you would expect to see an average of 4 non-responsive sub-pixels on each LCD panel. Most of the display industry replaces displays with 5 - 7 non-responsive pixels.

Planar will consider repair or replacement of a monitor with 3 or more non-responsive pixels, call our technical support line at 1-866-PLANAR1 (1-866-752-6271).


NOTE: Read that last paragraph again... = Planar for the win?

 

[alcoholbob]

If you compare the hardforum for doublesight vs NEC...the former has a lot more dead pixels. NEC monitors (and TVs) cost a considerable amount more than their competition...they buy the A+ panels. It doesn't mean you won't turn into a statistic, but you have a better chance of escaping unscathed.

 

[oPEEPINGTOMo]

Originally posted by: zod96
Does anybody else's LG L227WTG have a bouncy stand? My LG seems to wobble at the slightest vibration and movement. And man does this thing attract dust like crazy. Also when mine is changing screens, like when windows restarts I get a nice buzz sound from it. Anyone get stuff like this? Also when gaming what would most people prefer the LG or the MEC 20wmgx2

Sorry to hear that man, i just got one as well, but i get no audible buzz, and the build quality seems to be really excellent, no wobbling. You may want to take it back and get another one if it bothers you.

 

[zod96]

What would you do if you could trade your LG L227WTG-PF for a NEC 20WMGX2 for an even swap?

 

[Tab]

Is this guide going to be updated soon? Surly, there must be some newer models out by now.

 

[RegJones]

The new HP LP2475W has just been reviewed here:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

Here's the conclusion:

"Overall I was very impressed by the performance of the LP2475W. While default colour accuracy was pretty poor, once calibrated the screen offered the best colour results we have seen in our reviews. Black depth was excellent for an IPS matrix, and even out-did many PVA matrices we have tested! These were very positive improvements for IPS technology, and hopefully this is a sign of things to come. The screens massive range of ergonomic adjustments and interfaces was also nice to see, and the HP had a very "Dell feel" in terms of finish, functionality and features. Responsiveness was very good, but there was some slight RTC overshoot which caused some dark artefacts in practice. However, the decent pixel responsivenss, combined with pretty good input lag, could make this a good screen for gamers, as well as those wanting an excellent all round performer. If you want a 24" monitor, this is a hard one to beat in my opinion. Given the extreme lack of IPS in this sector, HP are probably on to a winner here."

Note CDW is now selling the 2475W for $629.99 USD.

 

[imported_mostlyprudent]

Wonderful Thread! I am left with just a couple questions. I am looking for a new monitor. My criteria, in order of importance are these:

1. Viewing Angle;
2. True 8-bit color;
3. Screen uniformity; and
4. Color accuracy.

My budget is $400-$600. Given all of that, I have, based on this thread, narrowed it down to the following monitors:

Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP
HP LP2465
HP LP2065 (concerned that I don't know which panel I will end up with)
Lemovo ThinkVision L220x
(I have eliminated the Westinghouse because I was able to look at one and was disappointed)

Of the list above, I notice that the monitors trade places in Multimedia, Print and Photo Editing categories. This will be my primary home display and will be used for some of all three categories including office work as well (none at a professional level).

A friend has the HP LP1965 from when HP was only using the IPS panel and that is a beautiful monitor. The Dell is actually pushing my budget more than I would like.

Is there a noticeable difference between the S-IPS and AMVA paneals in the HP LP2065?
Are there big differences between the panels on the lP2465, 2408WFP and L220x (besides sixe? They are all S-PVA panels, but are not always grouped near each other in the recommendations. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ericinho]

XKnight: any thoughts on the spanking new S-IPS 24" screen of HP (HP LP2475W). Got a positive review at http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

 

[QuantumPion]

Is there any advantage of the new DS-265W over the Planar counterpart? It is only slightly cheaper, and I might be able to find the Planar in a B&M store to avoid any dead pixel problems.

 

[ericinho]

Originally posted by: ericinho
XKnight: any thoughts on the spanking new S-IPS 24" screen of HP (HP LP2475W). Got a positive review at http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

It seems btw that also this screen is plagued by the wide gammut virus (which makes a screen not really useful for general use)

 

[ninethirty]

Originally posted by: ericinho
It seems btw that also this screen is plagued by the wide gammut virus (which makes a screen not really useful for general use)

I think "not really useful" is too strong. I know the colors will be oversaturated on non-color-managed apps, but do you think that really makes the monitor useless?

(I've never had a WG monitor myself, but I'm starting to read reviews about the HP LP2475W)

 

[ShaggyMoose]

Well, I just bought the Samsung 206BW (yeah, I know its old) and am reasonably happy so far. The colours seem usable out of the box (subjective only) and I haven´t found a dead or defective pixel yet. However, the colour uniformity seems pretty poor. I think its just related to the vertical viewing angle, but it seems no matter how I look at the screen its the same. For example, orange is much red at the top and yellow at the bottom. It also seems worse towards the middle of the screen than the edges. I don´t suppose there is anything I can do about this?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Orodreth
I've been waiting for the Doublesight 265W for a few months now.

I bought a Samsung 226CW for home last fall, and it's been good, but not great. The viewing angles are kinda poor and the color calibration is lacking for photo editing or artwork (its a TN panel). I've enjoyed it, but I'm looking to upgrade to an IPS panel for better color. My Dell 2007WFP at work is awesome in terms of color, and viewing angle, but I don't know what type of panel it is and they are impossible to find anymore, plus I'd prefer to stay at 24" or go up to 26".

So I've been looking at the Doublesight 263N(265W), Planar PX2611, NEC 2690WUXi and I've been holding off on an actual buying decision until I saw the specs on the Doublesight 265W. Now I've looked at it on Newegg and the Doublesight site, and compared specs with the other two and there are a couple factors that are making me think over my decision:

I use a self-standing monitor shelf, so the new monitor stand on the DS265W was never a factor. What does bug me is the Doublesight 265W has a big bezel. Fine if you are running this on its own, but I may include a square Dell LCD to the side for extra desktop real estate, and the wider bezel would make for a big dead space between the monitors. Plus, the 265W appears to have built in speakers (perhaps why the bezel is so wide now). I have a pair of nicely sounding Swans D1080 MKII and don't need any speakers on my LCD monitor.

Additionally, the Planar PX2611 and Doublesight 265W both have a 3yr warranty compared to the 4yr warranty on the NEC 2690Wuxi. And the Planar and Doublesight models both run at 135Watts while the NEC is specified to run at 111Watts. The 24 Watt difference is enough to make me think about it. I haven't done the math to see what 24 Watts fewer would actually save me in energy cost but I do spend hours in front of my computer. It's kinda like a decision to buy a good chair - you're rewarded over time for the initial cost. And while we're on the NEC praise - it comes with the antiglow polarizer that the PX and DS lack

Some PXs have the anti-glow polarizer, and all DSs do.

, and the NEC is supposed to have better interface controls, back-light management, and better color calibration than the other two. But is all that worth the extra $400? It might be.

Not really. And I say that as an owner of it.

I am still pondering... finding a Doublesight 263N (no speakers and small bezel) is still possible, though they wont be around long. And the NEC 30" is a friggin wet dream come true for color calibration (if the specifications are correct), though the cost in dollars and energy is too much for my budget.

So I may end up getting the NEC 2690WUXi. Don't you have the NEC 2690 xtknight? If you had to make this choice TODAY, would you go with the NEC?

No, I would probably save the money and go for the DoubleSight. Almost certainly in fact. The lack of 1080i support on the NEC (Planar/DoubleSight have it AFAIK) is enough to beloved patriot its armor.

Originally posted by: Kai920
Thanks for the reply... My wife suggested I keep using the Viewsonic and the right side of screen only

Isn't that like saying, if one part of the carpet is stained with grape juice, "only look at the other side"??

I have a Dell 2008WFP, and I hate the way color gradients look on it. Not sure what it's called either.. basically, the gradients produced look like 8-bit color or even worse. That said, I wouldn't mind another Dell as long as it does not suffer from this same problem.

It is probably banding/gradation.

I am debating between getting another 22" 1680x1050 or a 24" 1920x1200.

My Dell 20"/22" choices are:
E207WFP 20" Entry Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor
SP2008WFP 20" Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor*
UltraSharp? 2009W 20" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor
SP2208WFP 22" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor*
E228WFP 22" Entry Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor

The SP models have a webcam integrated. Which one of the above, if any, is comparable to the 2007FP you recommended?

None really. They are all TN panels. I assume that the 2007WFP is out of your price range?

For 24", my choices are
E248WFP Entry 24" WideScreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor
UltraSharp? 2408WFP 24" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor
S2409W 24-inch Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor

The Ultrasharp costs significantly more than the other two. (More than US$300 difference)

Seems like you're willing to put down a good amount for these so I recommend getting a high quality 2007FP panel for the money.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Centurin
The only problem I see with the DoubleSight is that they have a 7 dead pixel policy. It's almost as bad as Neweggs. I've heard great things about Planar CS and I'm wondering if that's the better deal.

I don't know, really. I usually just take my chances and hope that they can offer me refurbs if something is wrong with the original new one. If you're not willing to do that then go with the Planar.

Originally posted by: oPEEPINGTOMo
Thanks for the reply xtknight, i had already picked up the LG L227WTG-PF, they wanted 339.99 at best buy for it, Fry's had it for 289.00 so i got them to price match since frys was another 20miles away. Anyways the monitor is great, and is definitely lag free.

Good to hear.

I have another question, in regards to an a Flat Panel TV now, not monitor, what would be the best bet for something around a 50" with picture quality, input lag, and response time all at the top of the list of concerns. Also is there a particular brand that is better than others that seems to be good in all the concerned areas?

I know my dad has a 720p Sony LCD 46" which seems to be for the most part lag free, but two of my friends have 46" Samsungs, one 720p the other 1080p that are both really laggy, even when in game mode, which looks like crap by the way (game mode that is)

Any suggestions? Plasma vs LCD, One Brand vs Another, or just a couple of specific suggestions themselves.

THANKS!

Hmmm unfortunately I am not nearly as experienced with TVs so you will have to consult avsforum. Sharp has monitors/TVs with some game mode (including the 32" one I recommend in OP) but am not sure at that size.

The best thing to do in this case is to look for user experiences.

Originally posted by: zod96
Does anybody else's LG L227WTG have a bouncy stand? My LG seems to wobble at the slightest vibration and movement. And man does this thing attract dust like crazy. Also when mine is changing screens, like when windows restarts I get a nice buzz sound from it. Anyone get stuff like this? Also when gaming what would most people prefer the LG or the MEC 20wmgx2

I don't know, but the L227 is great for gaming. The viewing angles are really only annoying in desktop use.

Originally posted by: geno
If someone has a moment to read my story :

I ended up buying a Gateway FHD 2401 and it's been great so far, zero dead pixels, bright as the sun, and larger than I thought it'd be on my desk. I ended up deciding I wanted both HDMI and DVI inputs (just HDMI won't cut it as I don't have an HDMI video card and don't want to buy a converter) and was HDCP compliant. I bit the bullet on a TN paneled monitor even though I was shooting for a PVA/MVA panel. Now I'm sitting in front of it and I'm not too psyched about the viewing angle issue. What I mean by that is : the contrast /colors will vary depending on how high / low something is I'm looking at. If I open WinAmp, leaving it at the top of the screen leaves the visuals black and very dark. If I drag it to the bottom, the grays in the skin come out and it looks much better.

I love the monitor, but at $450 (or even 500) could I have found a PVA/MVA panel which gives me the inputs I want, and HDCP along with a decent price and is at least 24"?

Maybe I'm a noob at LCDs, but getting a definitive answer on what monitor has what kind of panel can be tough.

Well this is the closest thing I can think of, that you could have gotten: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824176059&Tpk=lp2465

There may also be Westinghouse 24" or Soyo 24" panels using VAs that are cheaper, but they are quite unreliable.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
If you compare the hardforum for doublesight vs NEC...the former has a lot more dead pixels. NEC monitors (and TVs) cost a considerable amount more than their competition...they buy the A+ panels. It doesn't mean you won't turn into a statistic, but you have a better chance of escaping unscathed.

My LCD2690 has two dead pixels and that Planar's policy is better than NEC's is still amazing to me.

Originally posted by: zod96
What would you do if you could trade your LG L227WTG-PF for a NEC 20WMGX2 for an even swap?

Obviously that depends if I know how good the NEC is or not. But I guess I would probably choose the NEC. Most people would probably keep the LG 22" for higher contrast although personally the NEC's viewing angles make it worthwhile for me.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: RegJones
The new HP LP2475W has just been reviewed here:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_lp2475w.htm

Here's the conclusion:

"Overall I was very impressed by the performance of the LP2475W. While default colour accuracy was pretty poor, once calibrated the screen offered the best colour results we have seen in our reviews. Black depth was excellent for an IPS matrix, and even out-did many PVA matrices we have tested! These were very positive improvements for IPS technology, and hopefully this is a sign of things to come. The screens massive range of ergonomic adjustments and interfaces was also nice to see, and the HP had a very "Dell feel" in terms of finish, functionality and features. Responsiveness was very good, but there was some slight RTC overshoot which caused some dark artefacts in practice. However, the decent pixel responsivenss, combined with pretty good input lag, could make this a good screen for gamers, as well as those wanting an excellent all round performer. If you want a 24" monitor, this is a hard one to beat in my opinion. Given the extreme lack of IPS in this sector, HP are probably on to a winner here."

Note CDW is now selling the 2475W for $629.99 USD.

Nice! I will probably recommend this.

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Is there any advantage of the new DS-265W over the Planar counterpart? It is only slightly cheaper, and I might be able to find the Planar in a B&M store to avoid any dead pixel problems.

I think the DS has the antiglow polarizer while the Planar does not. Everyone has a different opinion on whether that's a big deal. Consult HardForum's big threads on these monitors for specific info.

Originally posted by: ShaggyMoose
Well, I just bought the Samsung 206BW (yeah, I know its old) and am reasonably happy so far. The colours seem usable out of the box (subjective only) and I haven´t found a dead or defective pixel yet. However, the colour uniformity seems pretty poor. I think its just related to the vertical viewing angle, but it seems no matter how I look at the screen its the same. For example, orange is much red at the top and yellow at the bottom. It also seems worse towards the middle of the screen than the edges. I don´t suppose there is anything I can do about this?

Unfortunately not, because these are properties of TN panels.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tab
Is this guide going to be updated soon? Surly, there must be some newer models out by now.

Newer doesn't always mean better. Or hmm in car terms, just because Kia came out with a new Spectra doesn't mean Ferrari is no good anymore. I haven't seen a monitor lately that exceeds the ones that I have in the OP. (Besides the DoubleSight DS-265W/HP LP2475W which will be added in a little bit.)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mostlyprudent
Wonderful Thread! I am left with just a couple questions. I am looking for a new monitor. My criteria, in order of importance are these:

1. Viewing Angle;
2. True 8-bit color;
3. Screen uniformity; and
4. Color accuracy.

My budget is $400-$600. Given all of that, I have, based on this thread, narrowed it down to the following monitors:

Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP
HP LP2465
HP LP2065 (concerned that I don't know which panel I will end up with)
Lemovo ThinkVision L220x
(I have eliminated the Westinghouse because I was able to look at one and was disappointed)

Of the list above, I notice that the monitors trade places in Multimedia, Print and Photo Editing categories. This will be my primary home display and will be used for some of all three categories including office work as well (none at a professional level).

A friend has the HP LP1965 from when HP was only using the IPS panel and that is a beautiful monitor. The Dell is actually pushing my budget more than I would like.

The LP1965 has only used a VA panel, that I know of.

Is there a noticeable difference between the S-IPS and AMVA paneals in the HP LP2065?
Are there big differences between the panels on the lP2465, 2408WFP and L220x (besides sixe? They are all S-PVA panels, but are not always grouped near each other in the recommendations. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I think the LP2475W would be worth it to you. http://www.cdw.com/shop/produc...fault.aspx?EDC=1559057

Whether it's worth the extra $30 over your budget, well I say yes, because your upper bound just barely restricts you from having something considerably better than what you'd be able to get otherwise.

You may want an L220X if you can stand the dot pitch. Some of these monitors have a better gamma curve than others (good for photo editing) or they are wide gamut (not great for sRGB photo editing). If you do both photo and print editing, wide gamut is the lowest common denominator because you can use an sRGB profile with some success for the photo editing.

 

[FordGT]

I returned the w2207h and decided to try the other one that was there. Man, I must have bad luck with pixels! This one also a bad pixel! It's in the center of the screen and about 3 inches from the top.

I have a question though. On a white background it's barely visible, like a spec of dust. On a black background it's also hardly visible but here's where it gets interesting.

When I launch a new window on the black background, say Firefox, and drag the window underneath the pixel it glows bright green. On a white background with darker objects such as Apple's movie trailer site the pixel appears darker than if the background were solid white. In other words it changes luminosity depending on whats being shown onscreen.

I even had a Best Buy employee plug it in and run a dead pixel test and I couldn't see anything. So much for pixel tests.

There's also some pretty terrible back light bleed towards the top and bottom of the screen. The top is light gray on a black screen. It's another Samsung by the way.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: FordGT
I returned the w2207h and decided to try the other one that was there. Man, I must have bad luck with pixels! This one also a bad pixel! It's in the center of the screen and about 3 inches from the top.

I have a question though. On a white background it's barely visible, like a spec of dust. On a black background it's also hardly visible but here's where it gets interesting.

When I launch a new window on the black background, say Firefox, and drag the window underneath the pixel it glows bright green. On a white background with darker objects such as Apple's movie trailer site the pixel appears darker than if the background were solid white. In other words it changes luminosity depending on whats being shown onscreen.

I even had a Best Buy employee plug it in and run a dead pixel test and I couldn't see anything. So much for pixel tests.

There's also some pretty terrible back light bleed towards the top and bottom of the screen. The top is light gray on a black screen. It's another Samsung by the way.

I hope you are absolutely sure it's not a speck of dust. It could also be dust under the panel.

But dead pixels can change color depending on which subpixels are dead. Are you saying that the pixel which is dead is being told to display rgb(x,x,x) and the result varies depending on the pixels adjacent to it? Or are you saying displaying rgb(x,0,0) and rgb(0,0,x) on that pixel may make its color change?