Responsible gun ownership Republican style.

[imported_tajmahal]

What's the problem? Numbers make you uncomfortable?

Like I said, those numbers don't differentiate between lawful and legal killings in self defense and defense of others and suicides. Let me know when you get an accurate list.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Like I said, those numbers don't differentiate between lawful and legal killings in self defense and defense of others and suicides. Let me know when you get an accurate list.

Doesn't matter, your feels.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Last I checked 2A isn't contingent on citizenship.

Noncitizens and the Second Amendment

Author: Adam Pitchel, Associate Member, University of Cincinnati Law Review The right to keep and bear arms has been constitutionally guaranteed since the Founding of the United States. It protects…

uclawreview.org

"A federal statute places most noncitizens outside of the protection of the Second Amendment.[1] The constitutionality of this statute has been challenged on several occasions, resulting in a split between the Seventh Circuit Court and the Fourth, Fifth, and Eighth Circuit Courts. "

Still up in the air, but i would find it hard to believe that a criminal/illegal alien has a Right to own a firearm.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Doesn't matter, your feels.

Nope, facts are facts and legal shootings and suicides are included in those inaccurate numbers by the CDC. You are not entitled to your own (false facts).

 

[ch33zw1z]

Nope, facts are facts and legal shootings and suicides are included in those inaccurate numbers by the CDC. You are not entitled to your own (false facts).

You're a joke. Those are the numbers reported by states to the CDC. Your feels tho.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

You're a joke. Those are the numbers reported by states to the CDC. Your feels tho.

Yes, deliberately inaccurate numbers even though they could include legal self defense numbers and suicides, but they don't.


Kinda like dying of or dying with, facts matter.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yes, deliberately inaccurate numbers even though they could include legal self defense numbers and suicides, but they don't.

Haha, the data is literally "gun deaths by state". Oops. It's a total count. It's not fake or inaccurate because you dont like it. You argue like a child, stomping his feet and demanding mommy gives him what he wants.

Maybe you can point to where the "blue" states are in the list, and then point to which states have the most strict and least strict gun ownership laws.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Haha, the data is literally "gun deaths by state". Oops. It's a total count. It's not fake or inaccurate because you dont like it. You argue like a child, stomping his feet and demanding mommy gives him what he wants.

Maybe you can point to where the "blue" states are in the list, and then point to which states have the most strict and least strict gun ownership laws.

Sorry i hurt your feelings. It's not an accurate representation, why would i bother? Red states will always have more legal self defense shootings. Try to get me an accurate graph.

 

[Meghan54]

Who let the dumb ass traitor out of his hole?

Weekend release program.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Sorry i hurt your feelings. It's not an accurate representation, why would i bother? Red states will always have more legal self defense shootings. Try to get me an accurate graph.

Haha, of course you won't do it.

It's a 100% accurate representation of gun deaths by state.

And since you can't rub your two brain cells together, I'll lay it out for you.

Suicides far out number any legally justified self defense shooting count. The disparity between those two is just gonna be enormous. And I would wager illegal gun activity out numbers self defense shootings by far as well.

And since self defense laws vary by state, that's a variable that you'll have to present as well, not just gun ownership laws

I'll wait for your data thats not the CDC's false data, 🤣

 

[NWRMidnight]

B-E-A-R-I-N-G you fkin clown. And yes every restriction makes it harder and more expensive for someone to keep and carry a firearm.

Sorry, auto correct is a bitch, isn't it? or a simple spelling error. It causes wrong shit to be posted. Something you and autocorrect/spelling errors have in common.

What restrictions prevent you from bearing arms? Be specific.

There has always been a monitary cost to owning a firearm long before the constitution ever existed. If you cannot afford to own a firearm, your constitution right to bear arms are still intact. You just may not be the physical owner of the firearm or ammo you are bearing. Requiring training is about safety, or a permit, does not impede or take away your constitutional right to bear arms. Nor does it prevent you from using a gun. It may restrict which guns you can have/use, but that does not remove your constitutional right to still be able to bear arms.

Voting on the other hand, has never had a cost associated with it until recent years where states have instituted restrictions adding a cost. If someone can't afford that cost, they lose their ability to vote, as they have no other options that keep that right intact. Unlike the right to bear arms, as there are options that keep your right to bear arms intact. That doesn't include other restrictions that prevent elderly and such for voting.

Like I said, it's pure stupidity to corelate voting with right to bear arms. And you have proven such.

 

[NWRMidnight]

Sorry i hurt your feelings. It's not an accurate representation, why would i bother? Red states will always have more legal self defense shootings. Try to get me an accurate graph.

You are implying that self defense and the right to carry are not legal in blue states.. which is false. So please explain how you come to this conclusion.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Haha, of course you won't do it.

It's a 100% accurate representation of gun deaths by state.

And since you can't rub your two brain cells together, I'll lay it out for you.

Suicides far out number any legally justified self defense shooting count. The disparity between those two is just gonna be enormous. And I would wager illegal gun activity out numbers self defense shootings by far as well.

And since self defense laws vary by state, that's a variable that you'll have to present as well, not just gun ownership laws

I'll wait for your data thats not the CDC's false data, 🤣

Bullshit, most deaths by firearm are suicides, a substantial portion are legal and justifiable deaths. The CDC deliberately doesn't differentiate the numbers even though they easily could. You want to use the CDC numbers even though they're demonstrably inaccurate and you even admit it. Get some real facts.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

You are implying that self defense and the right to carry are not legal in blue states.. which is false. So please explain how you come to this conclusion.

It's pretty tough for a person to use a firearm in self defense if they live in an area like New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles or Washington D.C. where they only allow the rich, the politically connected or law enforcement to have a firearm.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Sorry, auto correct is a bitch, isn't it? or a simple spelling error. It causes wrong shit to be posted. Something you and autocorrect/spelling errors have in common.

What restrictions prevent you from bearing arms? Be specific.

There has always been a monitary cost to owning a firearm long before the constitution ever existed. If you cannot afford to own a firearm, your constitution right to bear arms are still intact. You just may not be the physical owner of the firearm or ammo you are bearing. Requiring training is about safety, or a permit, does not impede or take away your constitutional right to bear arms. Nor does it prevent you from using a gun. It may restrict which guns you can have/use, but that does not remove your constitutional right to still be able to bear arms.

Voting on the other hand, has never had a cost associated with it until recent years where states have instituted restrictions adding a cost. If someone can't afford that cost, they lose their ability to vote, as they have no other options that keep that right intact. Unlike the right to bear arms, as there are options that keep your right to bear arms intact. That doesn't include other restrictions that prevent elderly and such for voting.

Like I said, it's pure stupidity to corelate voting with right to bear arms. And you have proven such.

" But restrictions on voting prevents people from voting, which takes away that constitutional right. restrictions on guns, requiring training, and requiring a permit to conceal carry, does not prevent people from baring arms. "

You freely make the claim that any and all restrictions on voting prevent people from voting, but try to make the claim that even more time consuming, onerous, expensive, intrusive and unreasonable restrictions on owning a firearm has no effect on owning a firearm? You are lying to yourself if you make that claim.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Bullshit, most deaths by firearm are suicides, a substantial portion are legal and justifiable deaths. The CDC deliberately doesn't differentiate the numbers even though they easily could. You want to use the CDC numbers even though they're demonstrably inaccurate and you even admit it. Get some real facts.

Lol, another feels post from you. Well done.

The CDC's numbers are total gun deaths. Deal with it.

Maybe you've got some alt facts to post? You certainly don't mind voting for them lol

 

[ch33zw1z]

It's pretty tough for a person to use a firearm in self defense if they live in an area like New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles or Washington D.C. where they only allow the rich, the politically connected or law enforcement to have a firearm.

You make all sorts of bullshit claims, it's like the thing you do the most around here.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Lol, another feels post from you. Well done.

The CDC's numbers are total gun deaths. Deal with it.

Maybe you've got some alt facts to post? You certainly don't mind voting for them lol

You tried to use the CDC report as a trump card in this thread. It didn't work since even yourself admitted that it doesn't include relevant material in the debate. People have a right to defend themselves, other people and property with a firearm. The CDC report deliberately omits this information. Deal with it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You tried to use the CDC report as a trump card in this thread. It didn't work since even yourself admitted that it doesn't include relevant material in the debate. People have a right to defend themselves, other people and property with a firearm. The CDC report deliberately omits this information. Deal with it.

More lies from you. I suggest you go back and read some more

Your feels tho.

 

[NWRMidnight]

It's pretty tough for a person to use a firearm in self defense if they live in an area like New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles or Washington D.C. where they only allow the rich, the politically connected or law enforcement to have a firearm.

Huh? How so? Please elaborate, as right now, it appears your stupidity is blinding.

 

[NWRMidnight]

" But restrictions on voting prevents people from voting, which takes away that constitutional right. restrictions on guns, requiring training, and requiring a permit to conceal carry, does not prevent people from baring arms. "

You freely make the claim that any and all restrictions on voting prevent people from voting, but try to make the claim that even more time consuming, onerous, expensive, intrusive and unreasonable restrictions on owning a firearm has no effect on owning a firearm? You are lying to yourself if you make that claim.

I did not say any and all restrictions prevent people from voting. That isn't even what the part of my quote you cherry picked shows. You added your own words that you pulled out of your ass, aka you are lying. However, if you are going to quote me, quote my whole post so it puts what I did say into perspective, and don't cherry pick parts of my comment so you can try to manipulate my meaning.

I noticed you avoided answering my question(s), only to once again pull shit out of your ass as usual, which is factually not correct. But please, be specific and tell us what restrictions are intrusive, unreasonable, etc and why? Restrictions on firearms doesn't prevent you from bearing arms. They might prevent you from owning a specific firearm, but that does not prevent you from bearing arms. Ownership of a specific firearm is not a requirement to bear arms.

Being time consuming is not a restriction, and does not prevent you from bearing arms. That's just you throwing a tantrum acting like a little bitch baby, crying about having to wait 10 days.

 

[Bitek]

Makes sense, 200 hours of training at a cost of $145.00 an hour at a gun range within 400 miles of where you live. Let me know when you finish your training.

What 200 hr requirement are referring to?

You can get a Utah concealed carry permit that's recognized in 32+ states and the training requirement is a weapons familiarity class. Local range provides this in a single 4hr class for $100.

As far as conditional carry goes...

As pointed out, it's pretty easy to get a carry permit that's recognized in almost every state but the NE and the Left Coast already.

CC doesn't change the laws in any other state.

Really just removes a bureaucratic hurdle of debatable value.

cont...

 

[Bitek]

So what's the value of the current permitting system where you can get certified in most states?

Current system forces legal and responsible gun owners though a bunch of hoops.

An application process, minimal training, and a criminal background check.

IMO, the background check is nice, but the training requirements are really minimal.

If you are going to effectively and responsibility carry, you need to commit to a lot more training and range time to hone your firearm skills. Go to the range sometime and you will see just how busy it is. Ammo ain't cheap either.

The concern I would have with with CC is that if there are not provisions that disallow criminals to legally carry. I suppose one could argue that they can't purchase a firearm without passing the current checks... But this isn't that robust.

Would it make it difficult for LEOs to arrest suspicious individuals if they are found in possession of loaded firearms? I want Leos to be able to bust the truly bad guys, even if it's at the expense of a bit of convenience for legal gun owners. I'd rather have cops have crime under control rather than leave it up to me to have to endure the consequences of even a legally justifiable shooting.

 

[dlerious]

Makes sense, 200 hours of training at a cost of $145.00 an hour at a gun range within 400 miles of where you live. Let me know when you finish your training.

I've done 3 different courses, basic pistol, intermediate, and self-defense. Cost was between $100-$150 for 16 hours over 2 days for each.

 

[dlerious]

Perhaps we should have mandatory firearms training in public high schools? Make it a requirement for graduation. No gun training, no GED either.

Hand every incoming freshman a sidearm that they are responsible for oiling/maintaining and securing. If everyone’s packing, incels might lose the courage to shoot up schools too.






/s

I don't know what it's like now, but back in the 70's you had to take a hunters safety course before you could get a hunting license. The training was in the school during non school hours. There was no live fire, it was all classroom. Only requirement was at least 12 years old and I believe it was free.