Request for a review of an A4-5300 and a G1610

[Maragark]

exactly. Why spent $500 on games and then run them on a crappy GPU? for like $120 you can get a 7770. or maybe find an old 5870 or 5850 of ebay. It's a small amount compared to total system cost including game price.

Who said anything about spending $500 on games? Clearly you don't understand that $120 is a lot of money for some people. Not all gamers were born with a silver spoon up their arse or happen to have a nice paying job.

 

[USER8000]

Who said anything about spending $500 on games? Clearly you don't understand that $120 is a lot of money for some people. Not all gamers were born with a silver spoon up their arse or happen to have a nice paying job.

This a forum of hardware enthusiasts,who like spending money on DIY parts as a hobby, as the computer hardware itself is a hobby. They are the type who think 4.5GHZ Core i5 CPUs and GTX670 and HD7950 cards are what all gamers usually use. Don't ever think many are connected with the reality of many gamers,so it is no point trying to argue.

Imagine going on a sports car forum,and talking about a compact sedan?? Its the same thing.

 

[shady28]

hardware budget != total system cost

Thats what he is saying and AMD APU fanboys don't get. For a minor increase in total system cost you can double your GPU performance compared to the lowest end APU. I think we all agree that pentiums/celerons IGP is not meant for gaming in any way.

And if you then include the cost of the actual games you play, this $100 for a way better experience seems like a very, very good idea.

Hopefully you guys are not really this dense, but just in case :

If you already have Windows 7, you can re-install it, and the cost is zero.

Ditto for WinXP.

 

[StrangerGuy]

What chance you think you have if AT doesn't even review the Nexus 10 after ~3 months of release.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

5400K uses a more powerful IGP
192 vs 128sps for the 5300, also slightly higher clock.

the 6450 DDR5 is closer to the 5300 IGP than the 5400k IGP imo.

and it can't even run crysis 2 with minmum details, dx9 at 720p/30
http://media.bestofmicro.com/9/T/288065/original/Crysis2 720p.png

but skyrim with low-medium is definitely playable,

I know... that's why I wrote "Its for the 5400K"...

That benchmark says "High Detail Preset", which is like the benchmarks I've seen for the 5300.

Hey, thanks a bunch (yes, I can read German). I've looked everywhere for a comparison of low-end Celeron's and A-x's. There was a thread a while ago, but that was only about pure CPU performance, not IGP performance...

 

[Ferzerp]

hardware budget != total system cost

Thats what he is saying and AMD APU fanboys don't get. For a minor increase in total system cost you can double your GPU performance compared to the lowest end APU. I think we all agree that pentiums/celerons IGP is not meant for gaming in any way.

And if you then include the cost of the actual games you play, this $100 for a way better experience seems like a very, very good idea.

Same reason AMD couldn't sell opterons for servers even if they were $1 each (yes, silly example). It really wouldn't matter if the CPU component were free when the performance delta is far, far more than the price delta for the alternate platforms.

Without using silly hypotheticals, in the real world, cost savings on an AMD server are 5-10% compared to an intel with a similar configuration (other than proc obviously). However, the intel option is far, far more than 5-10% faster on all but very, very niche workloads. Silly people say "but the CPU is so much cheaper!" Ok, great, but the server isn't.

It is kind of like trying to convince someone to buy an inferior vehicle because the engine costs $2k instead of $4k when the whole car costs $20k or $22k

 

[AtenRa]

I just dont understand the extreme budget "gaming" idea. Gaming is an optional activity. If you buy one AAA game that is 60.00 right there. And if you play online that is another 60.00 per month for internet. If you have the money to game, I think it only makes sense to get a decent system. Otherwise, why not just get a "gasp" console? Then at least you will know you can play everything.

Ill give you a hint why to get that cheap PC instead of the crap Console.

1421 Games for under 5 euros

2450 games for under 10 euros

The AMD A4-5300 will play all of them at 720p.

 

[pcsavvy]

I read anandtech reviews knowing their focus is the high end gamer in mind. But I can't afford a high end system so I go to the forum to try to glean as much information about lower cost parts that will handle what I do with my pc.
Unfortunately, a lot of the threads seem to devolve to "Intel is better than AMD because AMD is piece of s..t not worth your time to even research."
In real world performance, with two computers sitting side by side with equivalent processing power and stock gpu power, would you really notice a major difference in performance in day to day tasks.
It would be nice for anandtech to occasionally review lower cost parts and inform its audience how these parts handle day to day tasks at stock settings and whether or not the part can be overclocked. Inquiring minds would like to know.
I am not a gamer but it would be nice to know if the parts I am thinking of purchasing at my budget level would do the job. Nowadays, when you go to DIY build guides it is all about the $1000 minimum level for a gamer not a $500 minimum level for a casual gamer/htpc/office work kind of stuff.
What is the bare minimum for a htpc these days if you are on a tight budget?
I know Intel cpu power is fantastic, amd cpu not so much but IGP, AMD is great, Intel not so much.

 

[beginner99]

Who said anything about spending $500 on games? Clearly you don't understand that $120 is a lot of money for some people. Not all gamers were born with a silver spoon up their arse or happen to have a nice paying job.

Well in general a new game is around $50. And buying 10 of them does not seem that unlikely to me.

$120 is a lot of money for teenagers and kids. Nice paying jobs usually require a good education and effort on your side so they don't come for free either.
Assuming your not a teenager or homeless, how much do you pay for rent? How much for your car, insurance? How much do you spent on beer per month?You can keep your $120 card for 2 years easily. thats $6 per month. So skip one beer per week and you got it.

 

[SPBHM]

Nowadays, when you go to DIY build guides it is all about the $1000 minimum level for a gamer not a $500 minimum level for a casual gamer/htpc/office work kind of stuff.
.

not really, there are plenty of guides for general purpose and gaming PCs for $500-600
http://techreport.com/review/24350/tr-february-2013-system-guide/2

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-pc-overclocking-pc-building,3273.html

but I agree with some posts, if you are gaming, at least a $100 VGA is a GREAT investment, it can easily be used for 2 years or more and the improvement over IGPs or $50 cards is great.


the A4 would be sufficient for basic use, or a basic HTPC...

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Well in general a new game is around $50. And buying 10 of them does not seem that unlikely to me.

If it wasn't for those pesky steam sales. I mean there are a lot of (slightly) older titles going for $5-10, very often. Steam is great for a gamer on a budget...

thats $6 per month. So skip one beer per week and you got it.

Now THAT is going to take some serious convincing... :biggrin:

 

[Maragark]

Well in general a new game is around $50. And buying 10 of them does not seem that unlikely to me.

Over the lifetime, no. I don't believe anyone would buy 10 games up front though, unless they were in a Steam sale or something and then you'd be paying significantly less than $500. There's plenty of good free games available for the PC though, so you don't actually have to buy any games at all.

$120 is a lot of money for teenagers and kids. Nice paying jobs usually require a good education and effort on your side so they don't come for free either.

Which just proves my point. A lot of gamers are poor.

Assuming your not a teenager or homeless, how much do you pay for rent? How much for your car, insurance? How much do you spent on beer per month?You can keep your $120 card for 2 years easily. thats $6 per month. So skip one beer per week and you got it.

Well, no you don't, as money doesn't just appear because you decide to save up for 2 years. You have to wait until you've finishing saving that money before you can actually spend it. And in these times, a lot of people are struggling to make ends meet.

Come Christmas, there's going to be kids around the world asking their parents for gaming systems. The new consoles have have come out just in time, as have Kaveri APUs and Haswell will be available. Based on the launch prices of previous APUs, the top Kaveri part will cost around $150 at launch. An SFF system, top Kaveri, 8 GB RAM, 1 TB HD will cost around $400-$450. Kaveri will have upto 4 Steamroller cores and 8 GCN compute units. The HD7750 has 8 GCN compute units. The PS3 is rumoured to have HD7750 level graphics and 8 Jaguar cores.

The PS4 isn't going to launch for anything less than $400 for the top tier, but it'll cost less than a good gaming rig. That makes the Kaveri system an excellent bargain and cheaper upfront and over time due to free and cheaper games. With the Trinity and Llano APUs, the price difference between the best and the worst is about $100. An SFF PC based on the weakest Kaveri will be significantly cheaper than other gaming systems.

To a struggling parent with a kid wanting a gaming system, that PC is an excellent bargain. It can also be upgraded the following Christmas to the top Kaveri apart for around $100-150, or maybe even an Excavator based APU, making it an even better bargain.

As it stands at the moment though, someone with a $350 budget would probably be better off purchasing an A4-5300 SFF PC than a top tier console. I can't say for certain though as I haven't seen the data. What I can say though, is that it will be a hell of a lot cheaper to upgrade the Trinity based PC to a Kaveri based PC, compared to upgrading a PS3 to a PS4.

An A4-5300 based system offers an excellent starting point for those wanting a cheap gaming system and offers a very cheap and powerful upgrade path. The combined cost of a A4-5300 based system and an upgrade to the top Kaveri part at its release will cost around the same price as the next gen consoles.

So, I hope you now see why getting data on these low end APUs is worthwhile.

 

[NTMBK]

Hopefully you guys are not really this dense, but just in case :

If you already have Windows 7, you can re-install it, and the cost is zero.

Ditto for WinXP.

If you have a license which lets you do that, sure. But lots of people have OEM licensed Windows on their machines.

 

[Abwx]

Prices are inflated where i live , in France , an A4 5300 is 59 EUR while
the cheapest 4C APU , an A8 5500 , is about 95 EUR , VAT being included.

This make the 4C variant quite attractive given it has also a better GPU ,
moreover for a US consumer that pay the same number at most but in $
from what i see in retailers ads...

 

[cbn]

The Gateway SX2380-UR308 is an SFF PC that costs $350. It comes with an A4-5300, 4 GB DDR3 RAM, 1 TB HD and Win 8. That seems like an excellent little system for the price.

FYI: Just Looking through some "hot deals" I think a person should be able to build a DIY version of that for the same price.

Some advantages of DIY vs. prebuilt that I think of off the bat:

1. The $350 DIY SFF could come with a 1 TB 7200 rpm HDD rather than the 5400 rpm unit found in the $350 A4-5300 Gateway SFF computer.

2. Overclockability. Prebuilts from manufacturers like Gateway usually don't allow this, but DIY mainboards usually do.

3. A Windows 8 system builder license is re-usable on different motherboards (through the personal use license.) Whereas the Windows 8 that comes with prebuilts (like the $350 Gateway) are tied to the BIOS of the motherboard and cannot be re-installed on any future upgrade motherboards.

 

[shady28]

I read anandtech reviews knowing their focus is the high end gamer in mind. But I can't afford a high end system so I go to the forum to try to glean as much information about lower cost parts that will handle what I do with my pc.
Unfortunately, a lot of the threads seem to devolve to "Intel is better than AMD because AMD is piece of s..t not worth your time to even research."
In real world performance, with two computers sitting side by side with equivalent processing power and stock gpu power, would you really notice a major difference in performance in day to day tasks.

I agree, a big failing on these sites is to generalize based on performance results at the top end of the spectrum, and ignore differences in the lower end.

But in the real world, what % of GPU sales are GTX 650s and higher, or Radeon 7750s and higher? Not much I would wager. Even on steam, the #1 GPU is Intel integrated.

I just got back from Sam's, and I took a gander at their PCs. I saw a lot of APU based systems, and about half were A6 systems. Something that no one ever reviews.

I would really like to see some comparisons of PCs that people are actually buying from a benchmark perspective.

 

[Ferzerp]

Even on steam, the #1 GPU is Intel integrated.

The mode has nothing to do with the median. Which card is the mode when such a large number of options exists is near meaningless.

 

[frozentundra123456]

That's probably because you're not poor and have no idea what it's like to be poor.

Here in the UK, PC games are usually £30 and you get the odd one or two like COD that are £40. As for Internet costs, most people pay nowhere near that much. Here's a comparison of Internet costs from various UK providers. If I was spending $60 on Internet, I'd better be getting at least 100Mb.

Take that Gateway PC I linked you to, If you bought one of those right now, it will likely handle pretty much all games at 720p/30fps with lowest settings. After the new consoles come out, you find that you can no longer play some games, what do you do? You simply replace the APU with a new APU that can handle them. From the prices of all AMD's previous APUs, that would be around $150 for the top of the line chip.

Now imagine that you bought a PS3 today. After the new consoles come out, you find that all the games you want to play are on the PS4, what do you do? You buy a new console costing around $500.

Why get a console if you can get a fully functional SFF PC that has similar gaming performance for a similar price? The PC provides far better value. Basically, you're advocating that poor people should spend more to play games. I find it proper baffling that some people don't understand this.

Believe me I know what it is like to be poor. I didn't even have indoor plumbing until I was in high school.
Is that poor enough for you?

So don't tell me that I don't understand what it is like to be poor.

 

[Yjeld]

I have just assembled an A4-5300 machine. I will answer any questions you have about it. I am not a reviewer. I haven't gamed in years. I'll try to give you an idea about its use and performance though. As of now this is a test machine. It has 4 GB ram and is running Win XP pro SP3 (so 2.71GB ram as far as windows is concerned).

Sitting here typing this, System Properties shows 3.56 GHz. CPU usage ~3%. Page file commit 520MB.

Video: ATI Radeon HD 7480D (integrated APU graphics)
512 MB DDR 3 (hopefully from the ram XP cannot utilize)
Core Clock 724 MHz
Memory Clock 667 MHz
3D Performance set to balanced in Catalyst

I'm currently running at 1280*720 @60hz 32-bit color to an LG 23" Flatron.

*edit. Total cost of build for A4-5300, MSI-A75MA-E35, SeaGate 1TB HDD, Corsair XMS 4GB, EdiMax wifi, LogiSYS Mid Tower, LG DVD-burner was just under $250.

Could have gone with cheaper ram and offset the cost of cheap keyboard/mouse. I used an old eval copy of XP for testing, but I've seen Win 7 as low as $50.

Call it $100 for a monitor. (mine was $120, but I'm sure $100 could buy a 19-22")

AND you'd have a Windows 7 complete system for about $400

Most sub-$400 machines I see have: no monitor, AMD E-series or Intel Atom series, occasionally a Llano A-series or Pentium.

 

[Yjeld]

Basic, everyday computing functions work fine. Watching 720p and 1080p video files is smooth. Streaming 720p video (youtube) is smooth.

Encoding video - Used Handbrake to encode 3.6GB MKV file into MP4 format. Took approx 80 minutes. Same file on I3-550 (3.2GHz, 2 core + hyperthreading, 2GB ram) took approx 47 minutes.

 

[Yjeld]

Tried trial version of World of Warcraft. I did not actually play the game, just walked to Stormwind and stood in center of town spinning in a circle.

XP does not support DirectX11.

WoW recommends FAIR settings.

On LOW settings @ 720p Full screen: Started 76FPS dropped as low as 23FPS

On FAIR settings @ 720p Full Screen: 19-33FPS

On GOOD settings@ 720p Full Screen: 12-20FPS

On HIGH settings @ 720p Full Screen: 9-12FPS

Did not attempt BEST settings. Did not attempt 1080p.

I think WoW would be playable at GOOD settings (720p), as long as you dropped to LOW when in towns, instances, battlegrounds, etc.

I chose WoW because I had a copy on a portable drive, and because it is a popular game.

I believe I have a few other games I might be able to try: StarCraft 2, a trial of Diablo 3, and maybe a copy of Crysis if I can find it.

If there are any specific programs or games you would like me to try, preferably ones with free trials or demos, let me know and I'll see what I can do, time allowing.

 

[frozentundra123456]

That's not really what the OP asked. Your line of reasoning would result in a $600 'low end' system, where its quite possible to build a viable sub $300 system using all low end parts. The OP is asking which of those parts are best at that kind of price point, a question not answered by most reviews.

The OP did ask specifically if it could handle 1080p gaming. The answer is no, for graphically intense titles like BF3. trinity memory scaling.

This data is for the much more powerful A10 by the way. I could not find the graphs, but I am sure in another article they tested Metro 2033 and it was even more unplayable at 1080p on an A10. I also would think new games such as Crysis 3 and Far Cry 3 would be even more demanding.

 

[SPBHM]

Yjeld, can you run 3dmark06?

 

[bgt]

Last week I tested my 5700 to play TR 2013. FPS was too low so I inserted my 7750 card in it and then it played ok=>30fps. Thats also the nice fact about the APU's, it will (you have to enable it first in Catalyst) use CF once you plugin another card. Quite a cheap upgrade.

 

[KompuKare]

Computerbase did a review of all Trinity CPUs back in November. No idea if anyone has reviews G1610 yet.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2012/alle-desktop-trinity-im-gpu-vergleichstest/4/

And Google's attempt at a translation