Repubs say they want to end birthright citizenship - bye, bye, 2016 election

[LegendKiller]

So.. wait... a border fence will keep out H1B's, or what? Or are you conflating issues?

The truth is that the leadership of the Right likes it just the way it is. They love the whole idea of illegal labor, where workers have no rights & just put their noses to the grindstone.

They'd make it that way for everybody if they could.

Of course they would. Just like TPTB on the right loves having voters at their whim when they hand out cookies like they are free.

The fun thing about Trump? He's calling them both out on their bullshit.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

What's hilarious is that the lefties scream for more "fair" income distribution without realizing the main beneficiaries of these shitty immigration policies are the 1%. Why do you think Zuck wants more 1HBs, or Disney more? Or Gates? Or Kock brothers? Or soros? It's funny because the ignorant lefties are aiding in the cause they are trying to fight.

I'm guessing a lot of people here are in the technology industry, and many have jobs in the USA. And I bet most think their jobs are safe. They've already gutted the working class wages in this country, and they're looking upward for the next tier of wages to get gutted. So they're next! As for those Disney employees that just got laid off, Walmart is hiring!! Or maybe they'd prefer to ask people if they'd like fries with that?

Why? Because the 1% on the top don't give a shit about right or left, they just give a shit about accreting wealth. How do you do that? Sell the left on bleeding heart "they need jobs, freedom, America" and sell the right on "Trickle down, you don't need stupid jobs, you need college and smart jobs, free trade!"

Anyone who goes to college for the wrong thing might find themselves working at Walmart as a cashier like my cousin Nicole is. And with lots of student loan dept to pay off. This is typical of what the newest generation coming out of HS right now is going to have to deal with. Its not going to get any better because the current political policies are only guaranteed to make it get worse. Going to college for liberal arts, or just about anything "arts" might get you a lead position at Walmart after 3 or 4 years, and instead of $8, you might make $11. When they say "education pays" it needs an * beside it.

The right seems to be realizing it a little faster than the left. That's why the right establishment is trying to attack them as "low information voters". What's the best way to try and marginalize a person attempting to figure it out? Tell them they are stupid. Convince everybody else they are stupid, then they will be treated stupidly.

The Democratic base is made up of mostly ill informed morons, who probably couldn't point to the USA on a world map, and also some bleeding heart elitists peppered in the mix.

 

[werepossum]

So.. wait... a border fence will keep out H1B's, or what? Or are you conflating issues?

The truth is that the leadership of the Right likes it just the way it is. They love the whole idea of illegal labor, where workers have no rights & just put their noses to the grindstone.

They'd make it that way for everybody if they could.

That was EXACTLY his point, and in conjunction with the leadership of the left they CAN make it that way for most Americans. Sheesh, thou art dense and so one-dimensional that mathematicians will need to coin a brand new term to describe your geometry.

 

[nexus5rocks]

Do you (as apparently he does) begrudge those who migrate to seek a better life? That's going on all over the world now, just as it has been since the first humanoid specie climbed out of the trees millions of years ago before these borders were drawn. Do borders 'trump' human needs?

Many see no other option. We were fortunate to be born in a country like this, but many aren't so lucky. Too bad, they lose (unlike my ancestors)? My grandma came to this country and married an American and obtained citizenship. Is that much different than "anchor babies?" Either way the result is a better life, and I can understand that.

A homeless person would be able to live a better life in your house. Do you let him (and his family members) stay?

 

[nexus5rocks]

if you speed while driving, you are a CRIMINAL. simple as that.

now please tell us that you never speed, you criminal.

If he gets caught, he pays a fine and gets points on his license.
If an illegal gets caught, he gets deported.
Seems fair.

 

[Victorian Gray]

A homeless person would be able to live a better life in your house. Do you let him (and his family members) stay?

Or, back in the real world, you can do something like what Utah did. Give homes to the homeless.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lved-chronic-homelessness-and-saved-millions/

https://jobs.utah.gov/housing/scso/documents/homelessness2014.pdf

 

[Vic]

And when they are in the legitimate workforce what'll happen to their wages? They will go up, like they did back then. And young black americans and low skilled other races will be still fucked, mainly because shitheads like you would rather give illegals jobs than your own countrymen.

Reagan's amnesty was to a smaller number, when low skilled jobs were more plentiful. Furthermore, it *FUCKING FAILED*. It was billed as a one-time fix all policy. Did it fix the problem? No, it granted 1.5-3mm legal status and MORE CAME. But fuck, let's just quadruple down. Why not, it failed the first time, so now we need to quadruple down.

And then what'll happen to the border? Not one fucking thing. People will still come streaming over and shithead liberals, like you, will want to give more of them jobs. Why? Because they *deserve* them, according to you, because they have been here and have an anchor baby or three. Might as well just legitimize the practice of coming over illegally.

Fuck, let's just remove *all* immigration controls. Just let everybody stream in. Why the hell not. We have plenty of jobs! In fact, people like, sell it as a GDP positive! Maybe we should just let 100mm of them in, then GDP will grow 30-40%, right?

Right?


Ohh, wait, no.

You guys are like people screaming for more welfare, more student loans, more money out of the government. More. More. more. Then, one day, when it all blows to shit, you stop and realize something. Instead of realizing that more failed polices are bad, you just want to quadruple down.

Tuition raising double inflation? Then we need 4x as much loans!

Welfare too low to pay for unemployed Americans? We need 4x as much welfare!

Housing prices going to high? We need 4x as many GSE loans!

No one buys this line of bullshit that conservatives care about unemployed black Americans.

The rest of your straw men and assorted craziness is just that. I've never made any of those arguments here.

 

[LegendKiller]

No one buys this line of bullshit that conservatives care about unemployed black Americans.

The rest of your straw men and assorted craziness is just that. I've never made any of those arguments here.

But they'll buy the bullshit that liberals do. In fact, they bought it for the last 7 years. Look at what has happened to them.

 

[flexy]

The truth is that the leadership of the Right likes it just the way it is. They love the whole idea of illegal labor, where workers have no rights & just put their noses to the grindstone.

It mustn't necessarily be illegals. The leadership of the Right does OF COURSE like that they can offshore LEGALLY to wherever they want, and the leadership of the right OF COURSE likes that they can build a factory in Swasiland, rather than in Illinois.

Because of that, Trump will NEVER, EVER announce that he would impose taxes (or change laws etc.) in regards to offshoring, H1B imports etc. since it would be against conservative principles, it would scare conservative voters off in big numbers. (Those changes would mean significant higher costs and less profits for companies, of course.) Nice trap he is in there, almost amusing to watch.

Because of that he uses distraction tactics, focusing on illegals and Mexican rapists instead, his stupid idea of a wall and the even more stupid idea of changing the 14th amendment.

 

[werepossum]

No one buys this line of bullshit that conservatives care about unemployed black Americans.

The rest of your straw men and assorted craziness is just that. I've never made any of those arguments here.

That isn't even required. One can see a cliff ahead and call out a warning without knowing or particularly caring about the person about to drive off. And one can care about societal effects without particularly caring about the persons directly involved. Even the most selfish bastard can care about that, because if one isn't the top 0.1% then one is going to eventually feel the effects. But hey, feel free to screw them over out of love.

But they'll buy the bullshit that liberals do. In fact, they bought it for the last 7 years. Look at what has happened to them.

lol +1

 

[flexy]

Removing birthright citizenship for kids of illegals is probably a good idea

No, it's not. It's entirely idiotic.

 

[Vic]

But they'll buy the bullshit that liberals do. In fact, they bought it for the last 7 years. Look at what has happened to them.

Yeah, they were so much better off before.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

No, it's not. It's entirely idiotic.

Why is it entirely idiotic? That was never the intent of the 14th amendment, and no one seriously believes that hopping the border to make a baby and cash in on the benefits is something that should be rewarded.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Why is it entirely idiotic? That was never the intent of the 14th amendment, and no one seriously believes that hopping the border to make a baby and cash in on the benefits is something that should be rewarded.

How exactly do you intend to determine intent?

 

[Vic]

Why is it entirely idiotic? That was never the intent of the 14th amendment, and no one seriously believes that hopping the border to make a baby and cash in on the benefits is something that should be rewarded.

In my opinion, what's entirely idiotic is that the Know Nothings and neo-Confederates in the GOP are seriously considering a full frontal assault on the 14th amendment during a general election campaign.

 

[glenn1]

No, it's not. It's entirely idiotic.

Inertia of current law isn't a logical argument and certainly not a reasonable basis to say their position is idiotic. Pretend that I'm the average voter without a predetermined opinion on this, make your case why if the 14th Amendment simply vanished that we should return to using jus solis to detemine citizenship rather than jus sanguinis as Europe does.

 

[Jhhnn]

That isn't even required. One can see a cliff ahead and call out a warning without knowing or particularly caring about the person about to drive off. And one can care about societal effects without particularly caring about the persons directly involved. Even the most selfish bastard can care about that, because if one isn't the top 0.1% then one is going to eventually feel the effects. But hey, feel free to screw them over out of love.


lol +1

Yeh, Repub predictions of running off a cliff have been sooo accurate, like with the ACA & hyper inflation. They like to ignore the cliffs they led us over, like the housing bubble & the invasion of Iraq, not to mention 35 years of failed dependency on the whims of the financial elite.

 

[DrPizza]

I wonder how much success would Trump have if he were to become president?

He wants to evict every illegal immigrant in America. He wants to build a great wall. He wants to evict anchor babies.

Most of what he's talking about is unconstitutional. He's going to have to go thru Congress, and I bet his actions will be contested in the Supreme Court. I would be very surprised if he wins there. So, what's he going to do then? Go against the Supreme Court?

America is changing. Deal with it and move on. It's really not scary. I know Donald has struck a cord with most middle class Americans. IMO, most are just caught up in the moment.​

​

Donald trump has struck a cord with roughly 20% of 25% of Americans. A minority of a minority. Apologies for the quick diversion in this thread, but make no mistake, Trump's chances of success in the general election are about nil.

If I had to predict the future, I could almost believe that a year from now, Trump could say, "hey, I did this whole thing to help America. I wanted to expose many of these Republicans for what they are - a bunch of pandering fools. My apologies to many of the groups whom I've insulted the past year or so. Please understand that I only did so to bring the rest of the party out of the closet. If you look at previous interviews with me, prior to running for President, there are numerous examples that demonstrate that I believe something completely different. Incidentally, reporters kind of suck at background fact checking. I'm an awesome guy."

 

[shira]

It's so amusing when the same people who claimed that the out-of-context meaning of "established by the state" in the ACA MUST be taken literally (even though the broader law explicitly stated that the federal government could create "such an exchange" if the state didn't) are now claiming that the simple, totally unambiguous statement of the first sentence in Section 1 of the 14th Amendment . . .

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

. . . does NOT mean exactly what it says.

What part of ALL don't these people understand?

But of course they DO understand what ALL means. They just want to ignore that meaning because they don't like it, because as much as they loudly proclaim the sanctity of the rights protected by the U.S. Constitution, what they really mean is that "my rights" are special, but "your rights" aren't worth shit. Because I say so. Because I actually only respect rights if they work for me, but not if they work for you.

 

[nickqt]

It's so amusing when the same people who claimed that the out-of-context meaning of "established by the state" in the ACA MUST be taken literally (even though the broader law explicitly stated that the federal government could create "such an exchange" if the state didn't) are now claiming that the simple, totally unambiguous statement of the first sentence in Section 1 of the 14th Amendment . . .



. . . does NOT mean exactly what it says.

What part of ALL don't these people understand?

But of course they DO understand what ALL means. They just want to ignore that meaning because they don't like it, because as much as they loudly proclaim the sanctity of the rights protected by the U.S. Constitution, what they really mean is that "my rights" are special, but "your rights" aren't worth shit. Because I say so. Because I actually only respect rights if they work for me, but not if they work for you.

Framers of the 14th Amendment specifically chose the language to mean what it means.

https://www.acslaw.org/acsblog/node/13424

Nativists always have the same arguments they've always had. Literally, the same arguments. And they've always been wrong.

Them always being wrong is what makes them such great conservatives.

 

[shira]

It's actually not a 'pretty well accepted one by most legal scholars', it is in direct contravention of SCOTUS precedent and the governing interpretation of the 14th amendment for about the last 117 years. If you have any evidence to show that 'most legal scholars' consider US v. Wonk Kim Ark to be wrongly decided and wish to revisit more than a century of jurisprudence please provide it. I've seen nothing of the sort.

It's also odd that you describe Richard Posner as a 'liberal judicial activist', which of course would be a label that most people (himself likely included) would reject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Posner.

Righties like to call Posner a "liberal" because even his right-wing brain was able to recognize, and laugh out of court, the utter lack of substance in the arguments defending state same-sex marriage bans in Baskin v Bogan/Wolf v Walker.

You see, to righties, all court decisions are either liberal activism or a principled interpretation of the law. Thus, any judge who makes a ruling in favor of something "liberal" must be a liberal activist judge. It simply isn't possible that a "liberal" decision is actually the correct one. This is a major part of the "conservative brain defect" that Moonie so enjoys describing.

 

[Indus]

Why would it be hard to do?

Just make it part of tax code, if a business wants a tax deduction they need to verify the status of their employees.

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha oh hee hee ha ah ooh hee ha ha And I thought my jokes were bad.

You do know that the Conservatives represent only the top 1% who love nothing more than not having to pay taxes and extremely low wages.

Why do you think we're losing jobs to vietnam where someone is working a whole day to make only 38 cents?

The rich LOVE illegals. The rich cannot win elections by themselves. They need dummies to vote for what they stand in elections so they talk up stuff like patriotism, muslims, illegals to rile up people to vote for them.

If you really think they're serious about American issues for a moment.. you're sadly mistaken. They care about only THEM and they have the power to BUY elections by misinformation.

How do I know this? I was one of the misinformed.

I don't care how GOP loses the election, as long as they do! I will never again vote Republican. They are the people who want to gut Social Security, make Medicare unaffordable for majority of Seniors, cancel Medicaid & majority of safety-net benefits. Basically GOP wants same old, same old - tax cuts for the wealthy, new & more Wars. They want to tell people who have loved each other a lifetime they can't get married.

The Democratic base is made up of mostly ill informed morons, who probably couldn't point to the USA on a world map, and also some bleeding heart elitists peppered in the mix.

I agreed with most of what you said except this bit. That's where you lost me. Democrats are not all retards.. infact the people who vote democratic are probably better informed on issues than republican voters who vote against their self interests.

[/CENTER]
Donald trump has struck a cord with roughly 20% of 25% of Americans. A minority of a minority. Apologies for the quick diversion in this thread, but make no mistake, Trump's chances of success in the general election are about nil.

If I had to predict the future, I could almost believe that a year from now, Trump could say, "hey, I did this whole thing to help America. I wanted to expose many of these Republicans for what they are - a bunch of pandering fools. My apologies to many of the groups whom I've insulted the past year or so. Please understand that I only did so to bring the rest of the party out of the closet. If you look at previous interviews with me, prior to running for President, there are numerous examples that demonstrate that I believe something completely different. Incidentally, reporters kind of suck at background fact checking. I'm an awesome guy."

I think it's already done.. people have very long memories especially when crossed. Just wait and see..

I promise you that next fall, there are going to be ads like this running all over the country, and especially on Spanish-language media:

“My name is Lisa Hernandez. I was born in California, grew up there. I was valedictorian of my high school class, graduated from Yale, and now I’m in medical school; I’m going to be a pediatrician. But now Scott Walker and the Republicans say that because my mom is undocumented, that I’m not a real American and I shouldn’t be a citizen. I’m living the American Dream, but they want to take it away from me and people like me. Well I’ve got a message for you, Governor Walker. I’m every bit as American as your children. This country isn’t about who your parents were, it’s about everybody having a chance to work hard, achieve, and contribute to our future. It seems like some people forgot that.” - Huffington Post

 

[Svnla]

Why even bother to have immigration laws and rules? Just let the unskilled ILLEGALS come here and compete with the poor in the US. A perfect paradise.(sarcastic)

 

[sportage]

Huge topic. And who do we give the full credit to for addressing this?
DONALD TRUMP.
And THAT is why Donald is doing so well.
More than Donald's stand on these "shove under the rug" issues, Donald has brought the shove under the rug issues to the front.

For me, an Hillary Clinton liberal, add me to those that find it very weird when two illegals can come here, or one illegal immigrant woman pregnant with child, then give birth, and that baby is now a legal US citizen? Really?
Does any other country on earth allow this?
I ask. I don't know, but this sounds like only an American thing. No?

Listen... If the majority of Americans really really really are all that concerned about illegal immigration, and seriously ready for something to change, Trump's suggestion would be a very good and logical start.

What we would probably need to do is to give those already born here and were born under those circumstances with parents that were non citizens, give them full automatic legal citizenship or an easy path to.
But then, immediately put our foot down for this birth right to continue as is.
Stop this birth right exception from continuing.

If that is... if... Americans are really all that concerned about illegal immigration?

If we do not do this, to stop this birth right thing from continuing, then what is the point?
If we really chose as a nation to let birth rights continue, and instead focus on some magical ten mile high fence as the answer for illegal immigration woes, then lets just give it up.
Toss in the towel on illegal immigration.
Let us face the fact that noting will ever be done about illegal immigration, and let us just say that if anyone illegal comes into this country illegally, then if that illegal immigrant can quickly find a job and start paying taxes on their wages, then they can achieve permanent legal US citizenship. Period!

Cut out the limbo on actions addressing illegal immigration, which that limbo is actually costing American tax payers billions.
Cut the limbo, and grant all illegals that wish to immigrate to America full US citizenship with only one requirement. Get a job and pay your taxes.

Doing nothing is what costs America billions.
It would cost tax payers billions less to just allow illegals full legal status with employment as the one main requirement, turn illegals into legals and collect taxes from their wages, as well as have them pay premiums for their own healthcare insurance.
That would save billions.
That is the only other solution here.
To make every illegal an employed legal American worker, paying their fair taxes.
Otherwise, listen to Donald Trump. And DO SOMETHING!!!! ANYTHING!!!!
Or shut up!
.
.
.

 

[chucky2]

The problem isn't giving them legal status, we've already done that by giving them jobs (that lower income people did/could/do perform, thereby directly fucking those US Citizens who really don't need any more adversity in their lives), we're already educating their kids (producing direct competitors, that never would have been here, to our native kids), feeding those kids, providing medical care to them, etc.

So waving the Amnesty 2.0 wand and letting illegal lovers smear themselves in feel good jizz isn't the hard thing to do - that's the easy part.

The mandatory pre-condition to doing that (and, it requires both it being first and actually really not fake Bummer numbers REALLY being done, permanently), is securing the border and management of internal guests when it's time to go. Even talking about Amnesty 2.0 or some kind of 'immigration bill' that delivers any kind of bennies prior to the Executive and Congress actually demonstrating they are in fact delivering on both border security and guest management is quite simply, insanity; well, for people who actually care about fixing the problem to the benefit of average US Citizens...those that don't of course went those bennies to kick in.