Repubs say they want to end birthright citizenship - bye, bye, 2016 election

[Jhhnn]

A Constitutional Amendment absolutely would be required to change the rule whereby birth in this country automatically confers U.S. citizenship. It is very cut and dried, and if we begin pretending the Constitution says what we want it to say rather than what it does say, the unintended consequences would be worse than anything we might possibly gain. I would support such a Constitutional Amendment prohibiting automatic transferal of US citizenship if one's parents are in the country illegally, but I seriously doubt such an Amendment could still be ratified. About all we can do is try to figure out how to be a better Mexico. Or perhaps, a better Babel.

"A better Mexico" pretty much sums up Repub economic ideology, I think. They've had trickledown forever.

 

[LegendKiller]

Wait, you just said it was easy to do. Not easy anymore when you start thinking about what it actually involves, is it? This is the essence of Trumpism; blustering nonsense that falls apart instantly on contact with reality.

I would love to hear a plausible plan for implementing what you're talking about. Forget the fact that it would never pass Congress in a million years, let's assume you get everything you want in the legislature. Show me how this would be an even remotely feasible thing to do.

I was mocking you you twat. How do you think it's already done? IRS, Social Security, INS, ICE, Department of Labor. We can pretty easily enforce the laws if we want.

BTW - do you think this was Unconstitutional?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

I saw this mentioned somewhere else and found it interesting.

 

[werepossum]

"A better Mexico" pretty much sums up Repub economic ideology, I think. They've had trickledown forever.

Given the choice between "A better Mexico" and "Another Mexico", I certainly know which one I'd choose.

 

[LegendKiller]

Given the choice between "A better Mexico" and "Another Mexico", I certainly know which one I'd choose.

But people like him don't. They think we need to just keep them open, not enforce our laws, and let people stay as long as they want. Screw everybody else.

 

[werepossum]

I think you confuse "silent majority" with dwindling minority.

I am upper middle class and in no way fear an illegal taking my job. In fact I dont see anyone in the middle class complaining illegals are taking their jobs. A lot of bitching about welfare and taxes.

Want to solve the issue of illegals immigration its pretty simple. Imprison employers who hire illegals and fine them into poverty.

dl/dr: It isn't threatening me, so fuck you poor Americans.

We pretty much already do what you describe. (The IRS.)

But a much simpler solution exists. Businesses are required to file employer type tax returns. E.g., every employee's wages and SS# are reported. So, just run a check on the SS#. If it's a "no match" SS# then follow up.

There are millions of "no match" SS# numbers used on W-2's every year.

Once the 'White Market' economy has been cleaned up move on to the Black market (employees working under the table/wages are unreported). The IRS already audits for wages paid under the table. They have procedures in place. The IRS only needs follow through with their findings.

Currently the IRS ignores the situation: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/ig-...top-illegals-misusing-social-security-numbers

Fern

The left has an interesting dichotomy here.
1. We can't do anything about 11 million illegals. There are too many, it simply can't be done!
2. Give us control over all 320 million Americans' health care!

This is especially interesting given that the federal government already tracks every employee by Social Security number.

 

[LegendKiller]

dl/dr: It isn't threatening me, so fuck you poor Americans.


The left has an interesting dichotomy here.
1. We can't do anything about 11 million illegals. There are too many, it simply can't be done!
2. Give us control over all 320 million Americans' health care!

This is especially interesting given that the federal government already tracks every employee by Social Security number.

Also love the "You can't amend or interpret the Constitution, at all!" but then are more than willing to amend or re-interpret the 2nd Amendment to suit there needs.

The whole "well, we can't do anything now, and we can't do anything in the future because anybody who comes here will stay" reminds me of a general legal premise.

If you know that somebody has broken a contract and you do nothing to prevent it, or reserve your rights, it can be interpreted that you have waived your rights to remedies.

Libs are more than willing to go along with the Kock brothers to stop our remedies (laws), which makes then curious bedfellows.

 

[fskimospy]

I was mocking you you twat. How do you think it's already done? IRS, Social Security, INS, ICE, Department of Labor. We can pretty easily enforce the laws if we want.

BTW - do you think this was Unconstitutional?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback

I saw this mentioned somewhere else and found it interesting.

Yes, clearly. We already spend tons of money on enforcement and we have about 8 million people in the US working illegally. I'm sure if we just do it HARDER it will work perfectly.

Haven't you flailed childishly enough on this?

 

[Indus]

We can't do anything about 11 million illegals. There are too many, it simply can't be done! .

Even if 38 states legislatures amended the constitution, do you really think the constitution would be retroactive?

Would they take away citizenship from all the anchor babies?

I think they'll just come up with a new birth certificate where it says citizenship on birth: Not American/ American.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yes, clearly. We already spend tons of money on enforcement and we have about 8 million people in the US working illegally. I'm sure if we just do it HARDER it will work perfectly.

Haven't you flailed childishly enough on this?

LOL if you think we have worked "hard" on this. We look the other way 90% of the time. Why? Because that's what the establishment wants.

 

[JSt0rm]

we must nuke mexico.

 

[Vic]

Am I the only one who thinks that trying to reduce the number of future born American citizens as a means to tackle unemployment is entirely...crazy??

Nope. Pretty much every economist in America agrees that Trump's immigration plan would result in long term negative GDP.

 

[LegendKiller]

Nope. Pretty much every economist in America agrees that Trump's immigration plan would result in long term negative GDP.

And not a single one has mentioned the economic, social, and fiscal drag of keeping them around.

 

[Jhhnn]

Given the choice between "A better Mexico" and "Another Mexico", I certainly know which one I'd choose.

I didn't say there would be more than a smidgen of difference, and neither did you.

 

[Vic]

And not a single one has mentioned the economic, social, and fiscal drag of keeping them around.

The only drag is caused by their illegal status, which keeps them out of the legitimate workforce, where they could be contributing to society and paying taxes.
We already went through this back in the 80s. Reagan's amnesty did not hurt the economy.

 

[rudder]

And not a single one has mentioned the economic, social, and fiscal drag of keeping them around.

Not only are there fraudulent returns netting illegals $6 billion/year, government bennies, illegals often times will live in houses way over legal capacity. This allows them as a group to send tens of billions of dollars out of the economy ($26 billion to Mexico alone in 2014). Then there are the depressed wages....criminal activity and not having to show up in court... just a bad scene all around.

Stopping birthright citizenship for people here illegally will stop one of the biggest draws to coming here illegally.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

The amendment doesn't address the intent of the person, and I'm not sure how you'd determine the intent of a baby that was just born as to its views on the law, haha.

Wait, so unborn babies now get a choice when we're talking about illegal immigration, but when its about being aborted, its suddenly women's rights. Makes sense.

The parents and the child are all subject to US law, so that seems pretty open and shut. In the legislative record it seems the primary thing that people were trying to exclude from this were people like diplomats.

The case against it won't be argued on the grounds of whether the people involved are subject to US law or not. It'll be argued from a different angle.

i'll assume you completely missed the point, not that it matters since your first instinct is to attack anyone who thinks differently than you. after your little Nazi post though, it seems rather pointless to even interact with you. i'd rather have hard working illegals around than white trash racists like you.

No, your point was juvenile, and dumb as hell. And your new post proves you have issues with reading comprehension. But I'll forgive you, because English probably isn't your native language. Most of that was about cause and effect, and consequences for certain actions. People are driven to extremism. Its one of the reasons Donald Trump is leading the polls. A lot of people think its a joke, but its not gonna be funny at all when nutty/fringe right wing political movements start getting sizeable numbers due to an extremely large base feeling completely alienated by mainstream political parties.

Anyway, that isn't gonna work with me ^^, nice try though.

 

[rudder]

The only drag is caused by their illegal status, which keeps them out of the legitimate workforce, where they could be contributing to society and paying taxes.
We already went through this back in the 80s. Reagan's amnesty did not hurt the economy.

So you reform the guest worker process and not reward law breakers. People in countries not bordering the U.S. who want to come to this country are all going "WTF?!?!?! I have been standing outside the U.S. Embassy for years to get a visa when all I had to do was buy a plane ticket to Mexico and cut in line."

 

[Blanky]

Removing birthright citizenship for kids of illegals is probably a good idea and something you are likely to see fairly widespread support for. I know the liberal bubble won't get that, though and think it is a campaign sinker, but it isn't.

It's evenly split: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ending-birthright-citizenship/

The constitution has been changed before.

 

[Jhhnn]

Even if 38 states legislatures amended the constitution, do you really think the constitution would be retroactive?

Would they take away citizenship from all the anchor babies?

I think they'll just come up with a new birth certificate where it says citizenship on birth: Not American/ American.

I think they're just pandering, stirring a big vat of shit with a canoe paddle.

Repub leaders have no practical answers to this, don't want any. They cherish this pander point as much as they cherish abortion & they won't give it up willingly.

How do I know?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...785116-20ec-11e5-84d5-eb37ee8eaa61_story.html

 

[Jhhnn]

Removing birthright citizenship for kids of illegals is probably a good idea and something you are likely to see fairly widespread support for. I know the liberal bubble won't get that, though and think it is a campaign sinker, but it isn't.

It's evenly split: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ending-birthright-citizenship/

The constitution has been changed before.

Heh. Going for the band wagon effect? Where are we going? What's the plan, Jim?

Repubs have no plan other than inflaming passions & tearing down the opposition.

Only delusionists think that the 14th amendment will be altered.

Anybody who really thinks doing this would have a significant effect on immigration has shit fer brains, anyway. It's just an exercise in spite against the parents of newborn Americans.

 

[LegendKiller]

The only drag is caused by their illegal status, which keeps them out of the legitimate workforce, where they could be contributing to society and paying taxes.
We already went through this back in the 80s. Reagan's amnesty did not hurt the economy.

And when they are in the legitimate workforce what'll happen to their wages? They will go up, like they did back then. And young black americans and low skilled other races will be still fucked, mainly because shitheads like you would rather give illegals jobs than your own countrymen.

Reagan's amnesty was to a smaller number, when low skilled jobs were more plentiful. Furthermore, it *FUCKING FAILED*. It was billed as a one-time fix all policy. Did it fix the problem? No, it granted 1.5-3mm legal status and MORE CAME. But fuck, let's just quadruple down. Why not, it failed the first time, so now we need to quadruple down.

And then what'll happen to the border? Not one fucking thing. People will still come streaming over and shithead liberals, like you, will want to give more of them jobs. Why? Because they *deserve* them, according to you, because they have been here and have an anchor baby or three. Might as well just legitimize the practice of coming over illegally.

Fuck, let's just remove *all* immigration controls. Just let everybody stream in. Why the hell not. We have plenty of jobs! In fact, people like, sell it as a GDP positive! Maybe we should just let 100mm of them in, then GDP will grow 30-40%, right?

Right?


Ohh, wait, no.

You guys are like people screaming for more welfare, more student loans, more money out of the government. More. More. more. Then, one day, when it all blows to shit, you stop and realize something. Instead of realizing that more failed polices are bad, you just want to quadruple down.

Tuition raising double inflation? Then we need 4x as much loans!

Welfare too low to pay for unemployed Americans? We need 4x as much welfare!

Housing prices going to high? We need 4x as many GSE loans!

 

[Chaotic0ne]

Fuck, let's just remove *all* immigration controls. Just let everybody stream in. Why the hell not. We have plenty of jobs!

Yeah, so wages can keep dropping until people are working full time jobs so the 1%ers can have 95% of the wealth, and non-skilled laborers live in rental cages like they do in Hong Kong. Go USA! Can't wait.

Anyone with money might wanna start investing in companies building trailers(middle class) and cages (working class) to prepare for the future USA.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yeah, so wages can keep dropping until people are working full time jobs so the 1%ers can have 95% of the wealth, and non-skilled laborers live in rental cages like they do in Hong Kong. Go USA! Can't wait.

What's hilarious is that the lefties scream for more "fair" income distribution without realizing the main beneficiaries of these shitty immigration policies are the 1%. Why do you think Zuck wants more 1HBs, or Disney more? Or Gates? Or Kock brothers? Or soros? It's funny because the ignorant lefties are aiding in the cause they are trying to fight.

Why? Because the 1% on the top don't give a shit about right or left, they just give a shit about accreting wealth. How do you do that? Sell the left on bleeding heart "they need jobs, freedom, America" and sell the right on "Trickle down, you don't need stupid jobs, you need college and smart jobs, free trade!"

The right seems to be realizing it a little faster than the left. That's why the right establishment is trying to attack them as "low information voters". What's the best way to try and marginalize a person attempting to figure it out? Tell them they are stupid. Convince everybody else they are stupid, then they will be treated stupidly.

 

[Jhhnn]

What's hilarious is that the lefties scream for more "fair" income distribution without realizing the main beneficiaries of these shitty immigration policies are the 1%. Why do you think Zuck wants more 1HBs, or Disney more? Or Gates? Or Kock brothers? Or soros? It's funny because the ignorant lefties are aiding in the cause they are trying to fight.

Why? Because the 1% on the top don't give a shit about right or left, they just give a shit about accreting wealth. How do you do that? Sell the left on bleeding heart "they need jobs, freedom, America" and sell the right on "Trickle down, you don't need stupid jobs, you need college and smart jobs, free trade!"

The right seems to be realizing it a little faster than the left. That's why the right establishment is trying to attack them as "low information voters". What's the best way to try and marginalize a person attempting to figure it out? Tell them they are stupid. Convince everybody else they are stupid, then they will be treated stupidly.

So.. wait... a border fence will keep out H1B's, or what? Or are you conflating issues?

The truth is that the leadership of the Right likes it just the way it is. They love the whole idea of illegal labor, where workers have no rights & just put their noses to the grindstone.

They'd make it that way for everybody if they could.

 

[werepossum]

Also love the "You can't amend or interpret the Constitution, at all!" but then are more than willing to amend or re-interpret the 2nd Amendment to suit there needs.

The whole "well, we can't do anything now, and we can't do anything in the future because anybody who comes here will stay" reminds me of a general legal premise.

If you know that somebody has broken a contract and you do nothing to prevent it, or reserve your rights, it can be interpreted that you have waived your rights to remedies.

Libs are more than willing to go along with the Kock brothers to stop our remedies (laws), which makes then curious bedfellows.

Agreed.

Yes, clearly. We already spend tons of money on enforcement and we have about 8 million people in the US working illegally. I'm sure if we just do it HARDER it will work perfectly.

Haven't you flailed childishly enough on this?

Bullshit. Neither party wants to do anything about illegal immigration, so both parties simply go through the motions to appease the American public.

Even if 38 states legislatures amended the constitution, do you really think the constitution would be retroactive?

Would they take away citizenship from all the anchor babies?

I think they'll just come up with a new birth certificate where it says citizenship on birth: Not American/ American.

I would certainly hope it wouldn't be retroactive. The idea that government could and would retroactively remove citizenship based on third party behavior - no matter the relationship and no matter that I prefer it not be written the way it was written - is much more scary than the idea of America becoming Greater Mexico. I'm no fan of Mexico, but there ARE worse places a nation can go.