'Republicans turn their back on teachers'

[Pennstate]

But, as long as the unions are running the show, that will NEVER happen


Hmm.... MOST public school TEachers are underpaid unless they teach at a rich suburb. For all of you who complain about the teachers union: If you and your coworkers are consistently underpaid wouldn't YOU want to be represented by a union???



The long Island example is misleading because it's a rich district, the standard of living is much higher (try finding a house there for under $200,000).

 

[gittyup]

It is not just Republicans. Teachers are underpaid and under-appreciated. They work long hours and in some cases are expected to purchase supplies for thier class from their own budget. Not only are they expected to teach these kids, in some cases, they are expected to also raise them. It is truly a thank-less job. No wonder there are shortages of teachers. I live in FL and the average starting salary of a teacher is like 23K a year. Come on, that isn't much. If you want good quality teachers for our children, someone better realize that teachers deserve much more. They deserve more recognition and they deserve better financial rewards. Since there is this shortage of teachers, public schools are willing to hire just about anyone to fill a position, regardless of background and/or skills.

On top of all that, Jeb Bush ( gov ) isn't helping the education system here either with his silly FCAT testing.

Because of all this, my daughter is attending a good private school.

 

[HansXP]

In our society, we pay for what we feel is important. That's why athletes get huge sums of money to play games, while teachers get the scraps to teach our next generation. If our priorities changed and we spent the proper amount of money paying our teachers, I would wager that we would see a lot of improvement in our schools. People with BRAINS would become teachers because they could actually make a good career out of it, and they would actually do a good job of teacher the kids.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Warblad13]

i think teachers should be getting paid more because i know how kids act. at school there r some kids that r just horrible my friends have made at least 3 teachers cry. teaching is a hard job especialy in public schools.

 

[Michael]

gittyup - There is a surplus of teachers, not a shortage. Some areas do have shortages, but that is typically due to quality of life in the area.

HansXP - Society pays teachers what they are worth. Most adults/parents understand that the teacher is only a facilitor in their child's learning experience and that it is the child themselves plus support from the parents that makes the biggest difference.

Pennstate - The strong unions is one of the things that stands in the way of teachers getting more pay. Pay is based on seniority first with bonuses for merit badges (extra degrees/certifications). Skill has nothing to do with it.

Michael

 

[glen]

<< What he was saying is that if people tend to keep that attitude the system WILL NOT get better. >>


Agreed that it needs to get better and cynicism probably does nto help.
But, address my point/ points.
We have a lot of unqualified teachers.
While a few good ones stay in it, the education major at most US colleges is laughable and drives AWAY many bright people.

 

[HansXP]

<< We have a lot of unqualified teachers. >>



You get what you pay for. We pay for sh!t and that's exactly what we get...

 

[Rio Rebel]

Glad I didn't see this thread earlier. I might have made the mistake of commenting in it.

 

[Thegonagle]

Gittyup, HansXP, Warblad,

You guys are making the same point as I tried to make earlier. Teaching is truly one of the most noble things a person can do in life. 23K isn?t much? It?s NOTHING! A teacher can?t even buy a decent used car on that salary. I make a hell of a lot more delivering pizzas 3-4 nights a week. Apparently, by some of your standards, I?m WAY FVCKING overpaid for what I do. I hope that gives some of you other folks a bit of perspective.

 

[tigger80]

hmm i didn't see this mentioned but states especially california or texas have lots of immigrants and are not even native english speakers. So teaching is a lot of work for some of the teachers but sometimes the average scores are really low because of the ESL students. I agree teachers who do there work deserve promotions on performance and feedback from students. If they did student survey's about how they feel their teacher performed its a better way to asses how good the teacher is. We do this all the time at univerisities, maybe we should try at some of the high schools.

 

[gittyup]

gittyup - There is a surplus of teachers, not a shortage. Some areas do have shortages, but that is typically due to quality of life in the area.

INCORRECT. Atleast in FL. There is a huge shortage. I am not just pulling that out of my ass. My wife is a teacher...

 

[MrPALCO]

<< They deserve more recognition and they deserve better financial rewards. >>



Agreed.

Enter the free market with your teaching skills, and your skill will be rewarded in direct proportion to the quality of your service. You will be well satisfied.

If you want the NEA and its goons in government, to tax and force the rest of us to increase your pay, you will receive what you deserve. Misery.

 

[almostmakingit]

On Long Island there is certainly no shortage of qualified teachers.. The starting salary is low around $30K but as you have heard within a couple of years it increases rapidly.. Applicants know once you get in you have full benefits, quick salary increases, and a lifetime tenure.. The public here is still told that teachers are poor, but as you have heard they are not.. Poor salaries are not an issue in my district, yet the students are for the most part doing poorly.. The issue was raised about illegals and transients. I kept an open mind about that and asked my superintendent to do a quick study removing the students that weren't in the district long.. He had the opportunity to prove his point.. Unfortunately even the children that spent a lifetime in the district weren't doing well.. I know that there are good schools with good teachers on Long Island.. In fact many are my friends..
The problem is what do you do with the poorly run schools?? With each year that passes, the students are losing.. We have been reforming education for decades and still nothing.. It scares me to think that another 15 or 20 years will pass, another generation, and still no reforms..

 

[glenn1]

<< If our priorities changed and we spent the proper amount of money paying our teachers, I would wager that we would see a lot of improvement in our schools. >>



Ahhh, the dream of old-school Soviet style central planning is still alive and well i see. So tell me, since the free market has so screwed up the &quot;proper&quot; pay for teachers, how much do you think their pay should be?



<< . If you want good quality teachers for our children, someone better realize that teachers deserve much more. They deserve more recognition and they deserve better financial rewards. >>



And another one. So pray do enlighten us, since you obviously know better than the free markets, i ask again, how much SHOULD teachers be paid? Give us a dollar figure. Should a teacher's starting salary be $20k? $40k? $60k? $100k?

For those out there who failed and/or slept through economics classes, here's a basic kernel of economic truth for you... the normal starting salary for any given job position is completely dependent on what level of salary the marginal applicant will accept.

Let's try an example, to assist in understanding this concept. You are a business owner, and have 2 open job positions to fill. The position is a semi-skilled one, that is, a certain base level of competence is required, but not so much that it would be considered a specialized position, which means there will generally be more applicants than positions. Let's say that for your 2 job positions, you have 6 applicants. All 6 are qualified for the position, and are of relatively equal ability and experience (to wit, all graduates of training programs with no experience). Therefore, how do you make the determination on which of the applicants to hire?

Easy. You ask each applicant what level of salary they will accept the position at. Of your 6 applicants, they give the following answers:

Applicant 1: $20k
Applicant 2: $25k
Applicant 3: $30k
Applicant 4: $35k
Applicant 5: $40k
Applicant 6: $45K

Now quick, what do you think the starting salary level will be for your new group of hires?

Summary of concept: the true 'proper' salary level for any given position is where the market achieves an equilibrium between the salary demands of the employee, and salary offers by the employer for the same position. What you THINK a certain position should be paid is utterly immaterial, and it is utterly foolish for you to presume you know better what that proper level is.

 

[Ferocious]

Unions are necessary. It gives people a collective voice (if they use it) and promotes economic balance and middle class growth.

As unions weaken, so does the middle class.

Many conservatives and republicans think certain individuals should decide what is good for all. Many moderates, liberals, and democrats believe people should be able to participate and vote about important issues that affect their lives.

Conservatives and republicans really don't like it when the people can have a say and vote about things that affects their lives.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Unions are necessary. It gives people a collective voice (if they use it) and promotes economic balance and middle class growth. >>



If you want to remain in a position of mediocrity and behind the &quot;protective cover&quot; of the Union, fine. You must be prepared to accept the crumbs that the Union will throw your way.


If you really want to excel and realize you full potential, you must deal directly with the consumer or end user.

The free market is an impersonal and perfect Judge of the real effectiveness and value of the service each person provides society.

The bottom line, will you strong arm your way to middle class through the Union?

Or,

Will you enter the market place where your excellence will know no boundary?

The power is right under your nose.

 

[glenn1]

<< Unions are necessary. It gives people a collective voice (if they use it) and promotes economic balance and middle class growth. >>





<< If you want to remain in a position of mediocrity and behind the &quot;protective cover&quot; of the Union, fine. You must be prepared to accept the crumbs that the Union will throw your way. >>



The truth, as always, is somewhere in between. Unions are neither inherently bad, nor inherently good. For every positive example a union can provide, i can conversely show another where the union leadership has lead its members straight off a cliff (remember PATCO?). Conversely, for every negative example of union activism, i can show an example where they have been beneficial (for example, Southwest Airlines is one of the most unionized carriers, yet has done fabulously over the years, in part due to union member cooperation and dedication)

 

[MrPALCO]

<< The truth, as always, is somewhere in between. >>



The Truth is, the Union will push, shove, con and brow beat for you, only so far, and then stop.

Your talent offered to the free market, is unlimited, and pure.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< If you want to remain in a position of mediocrity and behind the &quot;protective cover&quot; of the Union, fine. You must be prepared to accept the crumbs that the Union will throw your way. >>

Care to explain how that works PalTroll?



<< The Truth is, the Union will push, shove, con and brow beat for you, only so far, and then stop >>

I'd like to see it from your point of view PalTroll but I can shove my head that far up my ass.

 

[Michael]

Unions, especially unions such as the NEA, are an evil force that preys on our economy. The great prosperity that we just came out of featured a historical weakening of unions. Early in history, before there were strong laws, unions were needed to counterbalance the capitalist robber barons. They are not needed today. If you do a study of how many jobs have been lost from union areas (Northeast US vs. the South), the union dues paid, and the income lost due to strikes, you will find that unions lose money for their members.

I think teachers are paid just fine for the skill and stress level inherent in their job. Their salaries need to be monitored to ensure that they're keeping up with cost of living increases in different local areas, but I honestly fear the people in this thread who think they know what the right wage for teachers is. First they'll pass laws on teacher wages, then they'll regulate my wage.

Michael

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Care to explain how that works PalTroll? >>



How many Union members (per capita) buy lottery tickets, and why?

How many successful entrepreneurs (per capita) buy lottery tickets, and why not?

The free market place has no boundaries, and will allow you to soar, if you are an Eagle.

 

[huanaku]

Unions had a purpose. They don't serve anyone but themselves (the leaders in each union) anymore. Get rid of them.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< I honestly fear the people in this thread who think they know what the right wage for teachers is. First they'll pass laws on teacher wages, then they'll regulate my wage. >>

I doubt that. Your job is of little importance to the community where as the Teachers Job is of great importance. Actually my contention is that the Job of a Teacher is one of the more important ones in society as a whole and that there should be greater financial rewards for the better teachers. A Teacher who's students constantly rank in the top ten should be finacially rewarded for their work.



<< How many Union members (per capita) buy lottery tickets, and why?...How many successful entrepreneurs (per capita) buy lottery tickets, and why not? >>

That is one of the lamest analogies I have ever heard in my life. Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< A Teacher who's students constantly rank in the top ten should be finacially rewarded for their work. >>



Excellent idea, please seek out one such teacher, forward a reward gift of $10,000 from your own funds, to him or her.

Report back to us with the details.

 

[Michael]

Red Dawn - I do not rank a teacher's job anywhere near as high as you do. Since teachers are paid out of the public purse and voters have a fairly good say in what they're paid, I think the majority agrees with me. Again, teachers are being paid what they're worth and what they're willing to work for.

Michael