Republicans Thwart Union in Tennesse

[l33tFuzzyLogic]

He's a member, as for proud I can't say.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/20...rzelbacher-hired-by-Chrysler-Corporation.html

The "proud" part was point. The poster skewed the message by saying "proud".

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Pretty much all the UAW guys I know are proud that they're union, but can't F'ing stand the BS that is the UAW. Problem really is membership: There are so many people that think for today at the expense of tomorrow, they'll keep taking scraps and let International continue the f*cking and fleecing. They'd be far better off becoming the NAUAW or USUAW. Negotiate contracts per company all at once for all the locations. Need to strike? Cool. All locations for that company go on strike. Which brings us back to membership issues...no one wants to do the short term pain for long term gain.

A location on the profitability bubble which has adverse union relations is basically asking for the kiss of death. Senior management comes in and lays out all the facts plain and simple...union leadship says they're bullshitting them and get the members to strike. Plant never reopens. I've seen this happen many times. And if management is really pissed at a particular union and that location is on the bubble...they just close it down and not even give them an option to negotiate. Management gets along with most of our unions...you just sometimes get some local union leadership folks that are on power trips and get off being dicks on every issue possible. If you need to close a marginal facility...these are the ones that are first in line.

 

[werepossum]

Yup - Rethuglicans will sweep the '16 elections.

Rethuglicans or Demonrats. Heads the rich and powerful win, tails the common man loses. Just have to decide which flavor of losing is less painful to you individually.

If true then it looks like the right outcome happened.

My personal experience with unions was that a union representative came into our non union workplace and handed out cards telling us that if we filled them out we would receive more info about the union. That's not what these cards were at all.

After the company became unionized we went from being the highest paid employees in the industry to one of the lowest paid. The pay cut was about a 30% cut in pay.

My personal experience has yet to see a single positive thing come from being in a union. However I still view them as a necessary evil when dealing with large corporations who see employees no differently than a paper clip, easily replaced, always looking for a cheaper way to obtain them, and always pushing/testing the limit of their capability.

Hopefully the VW employees, if they want will form a new union and work with VW like their German counterparts.

Holy crap! What industry was THAT?

There's some crap associated with the trade unions, but overall they are a pretty good thing in my limited experience. But I agree that hopefully the Chattanooga employees can form some sort of union that satisfies the law and allows them to work with VW as VW usually works with labor, which is pretty darned well. I think both sides will be better off as sometimes the folks building your product have ideas management really needs to hear. That can be done without a union, but at least from some of the things posted it looks as though VW might be letting themselves in for a nuisance lawsuit without some formal structure for employees selecting who will represent them.

 

[chucky2]

A location on the profitability bubble which has adverse union relations is basically asking for the kiss of death. Senior management comes in and lays out all the facts plain and simple...union leadship says they're bullshitting them and get the members to strike. Plant never reopens. I've seen this happen many times. And if management is really pissed at a particular union and that location is on the bubble...they just close it down and not even give them an option to negotiate. Management gets along with most of our unions...you just sometimes get some local union leadership folks that are on power trips and get off being dicks on every issue possible. If you need to close a marginal facility...these are the ones that are first in line.

Sure, but that's true no matter what. If the location is not profitable the company and union either need to find a way to make it profitable (other locations take a hit to counteract the losing location) or the location needs to go. A responsible union would first work towards getting that location profitable just from the actions of that locale. If that couldn't be done it's what can the entire union do. Lastly if nothing can be done, what can be done for these workers, such as possibly assignment at other locations, buyout pay and health insurance benefits, that at least allows workers some time to find a new job. Asshole union management never helps here...but then again neither does predatory and indifferent company management either.

 

[Michael]

The UAW is a terrible union that suffer from being very powerful during their glory days. Their work rules are too inflexible and they do not cooperate with management. UAW representation means the slow strangulation of the factory and then it is closed once the equipment is depreciated.

VW is used to working with labor in the form of a works council and were not in favor of a union (that is a misrepresentation in this thread), they were neutral as in they did not oppose it.

Michael

 

[highland145]

After the company became unionized we went from being the highest paid employees in the industry to one of the lowest paid. The pay cut was about a 30% cut in pay.

My personal experience has yet to see a single positive thing come from being in a union. However I still view them as a necessary evil when dealing with large corporations who see employees no differently than a paper clip, easily replaced, always looking for a cheaper way to obtain them, and always pushing/testing the limit of their capability.

So who got your 30%?

 

[rudder]

BMW management wanted a UNION and Republican politicians objected. Republicans threatened, lied and intimidated auto workers into voting no. Republicans would rather have NO jobs than UNION jobs, friggin Republicans....

]

Huh? No jobs? Seems the workers at VW have jobs and will able to keep their $500/year union dues in their own pocket.

And you are incorrect about VW wanting a union to come in. I won't go into the fact that a powerful VW board member is a high ranking member of Germany's largest labor union. A union who the president of Germany relies on for support.

VW chose to build a plant in Chattanooga because they determined based on the cost of labor they can sell their product at the price point which would allow the plant to be profitable. These jobs could have just as easily gone to Mexico.

The republicans in Tennessee knew the union would equal a slow death march for this plant. Tennessee tax payers have a lot invested in this plant so they don't need the UAW to come in and screw with things.

 

[dmcowen674]

2-17-2014

http://news.yahoo.com/uaw-defeat-gop-fulfill-promise-jobs-085608504.html

After UAW defeat, can GOP fulfill promise of jobs?



On the first of three days of voting at the Chattanooga plant, U.S. Sen. Bob Corker all but guaranteed the German automaker would announce within two weeks of a union rejection that it would build a new midsized sport utility vehicle at its only U.S. factory instead of sending the work to Mexico.


Corker said the day after the vote that he and other state officials planned to restart discussions with Volkswagen officials this week about state subsidies for expanded production in Chattanooga.


=========================================
So even after the vote Volkswagon could be sending the jobs to Mexico anyway.

 

[pcgeek11]

Good for VW and the Employees!

 

[blankslate]

Here is an interesting development in the past few hours.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/19/us-vw-usplant-idUSBREA1I0S820140219

Volkswagen's top labor representative threatened on Wednesday to try to block further investments by the German carmaker in the southern United States if its workers there are not unionized.

"If co-determination isn't guaranteed in the first place, we as workers will hardly be able to vote in favor" of potentially building another plant in the U.S. south, Osterloh, who is also on VW's supervisory board, said.

The 20-member panel - evenly split between labor and management - has to approve any decision on closing plants or building new ones.

Osterloh's comments were published on Wednesday in German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung. A spokesman at the Wolfsburg-based works council confirmed the remarks.

"The conservatives stirred up massive, anti-union sentiments," Osterloh said. "It's possible that the conclusion will be drawn that this interference amounted to unfair labor praxis."

Republican U.S. Senator Bob Corker, a staunch opponent of unionization, said last Wednesday after the first day of voting that VW would award the factory another model if the UAW was rejected.

German auto workers are almost universally unionized. And at the article noted they also have representation on a board that also helps make corporate decisions.

This is possible of course because Germany didn't follow the U.S. into the trade deals as blindly as the U.S. entered into them. Instead of Tariffs to protect their industries they just use the Value Added Tax or V.A.T.


This Chatanooga plant may be the only one that VW builds in the South.

Also VW may just implement a works council in the plant that gives workers some voice on how the plant functions.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/02/18/vw-workers-may-still-get-works-council-despite-uaw-vote/

Frank Fischer, chief executive of VW Chattanooga and manager of the plant, emphasized Friday night that while the workers voted against the UAW they didn't vote down the idea of a works council. "Throughout this process, we found great enthusiasm for the idea of an American-style works council both inside and outside our plant," Fischer said. "Our goal continues to be to determine the best method for establishing a works council in accordance with the requirements of U.S. labor law."

The power of such a council, which would be a first of its kind in the United States, would be very limited under U.S. labor law. It could be consulted only on some limited matters rather than negotiate with management on working conditions. And some labor experts say if the workers want to participate in a works council they may have to set up their own independent union to avoid the perception of a company-organized union, which is not allowed under the law.

In Germany, a works council typically involves both white- and blue-collar workers who elect representatives to participate on a body that is involved in decisions about the workplace environment and rules.
However, wages and benefits are usually left for separate negotiations between labor unions and management.

German companies don't have such a backward view of Unions...

...

 

[Atreus21]

If true then it looks like the right outcome happened.

My personal experience with unions was that a union representative came into our non union workplace and handed out cards telling us that if we filled them out we would receive more info about the union. That's not what these cards were at all.

After the company became unionized we went from being the highest paid employees in the industry to one of the lowest paid. The pay cut was about a 30% cut in pay.

My personal experience has yet to see a single positive thing come from being in a union. However I still view them as a necessary evil when dealing with large corporations who see employees no differently than a paper clip, easily replaced, always looking for a cheaper way to obtain them, and always pushing/testing the limit of their capability.

Hopefully the VW employees, if they want will form a new union and work with VW like their German counterparts.

Well reasoned, and I agree.

I used to see unions as entirely unnecessary. My brother gave me a good example of why they should exist. He's a musician and sometimes plays gigs at bars. It happens all the time that after the gig the owner will refuse to pay up. "Sorry fellas. Slow night." Ostensibly they could incur the cost to take the guy to court over $400. A better option is to be a member of a union, who can bring considerable pressure on the guy to pay up, and if he doesn't, make sure his ability to hire a band is severely curtailed. That makes sense to me.

To the extent that unions exist to protect against dishonesty from one of the two parties in a trade, I have no issue with them.

 

[echo4747]

Well reasoned, and I agree.

I used to see unions as entirely unnecessary. My brother gave me a good example of why they should exist. He's a musician and sometimes plays gigs at bars. It happens all the time that after the gig the owner will refuse to pay up. "Sorry fellas. Slow night." Ostensibly they could incur the cost to take the guy to court over $400. A better option is to be a member of a union, who can bring considerable pressure on the guy to pay up, and if he doesn't, make sure his ability to hire a band is severely curtailed. That makes sense to me.

To the extent that unions exist to protect against dishonesty from one of the two parties in a trade, I have no issue with them.

why not... when playing a gig at a bar .. asked to be paid in advance of playing... why would each member of the band need to pay union dues especially when the band is only getting paid $400

 

[shortylickens]

If democrats stopped protecting our 12 million criminal invaders there would be plenty of jobs to go around.

 

[rudder]

Also VW may just implement a works council in the plant that gives workers some voice on how the plant functions.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/02/18/vw-workers-may-still-get-works-council-despite-uaw-vote/



German companies don't have such a backward view of Unions...

...

My question is why the UAW feels the need to represent workers if VW can set up their own works council? There is absolutely no need for VW workers to have to play ~$500 year to the UAW.

 

[rudder]

Well reasoned, and I agree.

I used to see unions as entirely unnecessary. My brother gave me a good example of why they should exist. He's a musician and sometimes plays gigs at bars. It happens all the time that after the gig the owner will refuse to pay up. "Sorry fellas. Slow night." Ostensibly they could incur the cost to take the guy to court over $400. A better option is to be a member of a union, who can bring considerable pressure on the guy to pay up, and if he doesn't, make sure his ability to hire a band is severely curtailed. That makes sense to me.

To the extent that unions exist to protect against dishonesty from one of the two parties in a trade, I have no issue with them.

It is called a contract. The bar doesn't pay up... Well the band can put a lien on the bar. There you just saved those union dues.

 

[trenchfoot]

It is called a contract. The bar doesn't pay up... Well the band can put a lien on the bar. There you just saved those union dues.

Hmmmm.....though I wonder how much it would cost the band in legal fees from hiring their own counsel and the time and bothersome effort expended by the band members in pursuing the lien.

Wouldn't it be much easier and less costly for the band to have their union (and the union's legal eagles and their errrr..."business agents" go after the bar so the band can better spend their time practicing and playing somewhere else?

I phrased my commentary in a question because I'm not really sure what specific dynamics come into play to make either option more amenable to the band, especially when the total amount in question is not that appreciable.

However, the point still stands in that at times unions have their advantages and benefits, irrespective of the dogma against them.

 

[berzerker60]

It is called a contract. The bar doesn't pay up... Well the band can put a lien on the bar. There you just saved those union dues.

If you're planning on being in that same town an indefinite amount of time to go to small claims court, sure.

It's actually the same deal with employees when it comes to a boss going outside of what your employment contract strictly requires. Your boss tells you to stay late and work on weekends for free, even though that's against your contract. Non-union, you're pretty fucked, because you'll just get fired if you speak up, or at the least the boss will think of you as someone 'not giving 110%' and bang you on your performance review. Union, someone else can step in for you to fight the battle so you can just say 'my hands are tied, sorry' and the boss can't argue with it.

People getting pressured into working extra hours at lunch, staying late, working on weekends is really common these days, and it's theft, plain and simple (unless you're hourly and actually getting overtime, of course). Beyond stealing from you, it's letting the company get away without hiring someone else to do the extra work they clearly need to be paying someone to do, which just hurts everyone. Why hire more people when you can just illegally pressure your current employees into doing more than you're paying them for?

 

[MagickMan]

Here is an interesting development in the past few hours.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/19/us-vw-usplant-idUSBREA1I0S820140219


German auto workers are almost universally unionized. And at the article noted they also have representation on a board that also helps make corporate decisions.

This is possible of course because Germany didn't follow the U.S. into the trade deals as blindly as the U.S. entered into them. Instead of Tariffs to protect their industries they just use the Value Added Tax or V.A.T.


This Chatanooga plant may be the only one that VW builds in the South.

Also VW may just implement a works council in the plant that gives workers some voice on how the plant functions.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/02/18/vw-workers-may-still-get-works-council-despite-uaw-vote/



German companies don't have such a backward view of Unions...

...

For future reference, that's the type of 3rd party interference that pissed the workers off and made them vote against the UAW. "We'll take our toys and go home! WHAA!"

My question is why the UAW feels the need to represent workers if VW can set up their own works council? There is absolutely no need for VW workers to have to play ~$500 year to the UAW.

:thumbsup:

It's the politics and thuggish history of the UAW that soured them the most, not the thought of unionizing.

 

[dmcowen674]

For future reference, that's the type of 3rd party interference that pissed the workers off and made them vote against the UAW. "We'll take our toys and go home! WHAA!"



:thumbsup:

It's the politics and thuggish history of the UAW that soured them the most, not the thought of unionizing.

No, it's because Americans are not the brightest bulbs in the box any longer and will vote against their own self interests as evidenced by your posts and other ilk on here like you.

 

[MagickMan]

No, it's because Americans are not the brightest bulbs in the box any longer and will vote against their own self interests as evidenced by your posts and other ilk on here like you.

Another post lacking substance, and forethought, from the village idiot. Have they ever determined what's wrong with you, other than being an obese, lazy coward? Still no report from the war, or are you unable to rise up to the challenge?

Here's an easy one. If they already make more than the UAW workers in other plants, without having to pay dues to a group whom they don't politically agree with, why should they?

 

[Pulsar]

No, it's because Americans are not the brightest bulbs in the box any longer and will vote against their own self interests as evidenced by your posts and other ilk on here like you.

A number of our union leadership (big 3 plant here) went down to try to talk employees of VW into signing up to the union. They were almost universally told to get the fuck out, because they'd already screwed up Detroit enough.

Village idiot isn't far wrong with you. You sit in your little cave and read stories, then pick whatever random facts happen to suit your viewpoint that day.

Get stopped over any vinegar lately? Price of milk hit 10 a gallon yet?

Fark. Are you ever going to grow a brain?

 

[bshole]

"If co-determination isn't guaranteed in the first place, we as workers will hardly be able to vote in favor" of potentially building another plant in the U.S. south, Osterloh, who is also on VW's supervisory board, said.

The 20-member panel - evenly split between labor and management - has to approve any decision on closing plants or building new ones.

Lets see if I got this correct, the Republicans stuck their nose into the company's business and potentially cost their state another car plant.

 

[LTC8K6]

It is called a contract. The bar doesn't pay up... Well the band can put a lien on the bar. There you just saved those union dues.

Just put it out on the internet that you played there and the bar refused to pay you.

That will put an enormous amount of pressure on the bar.

 

[CZroe]

Lets see if I got this correct, the Republicans stuck their nose into the company's business and potentially cost their state another car plant.

Nope. The workers decided and someone wrote an article accusing Republicans of sticking their nose in. Someone (you) also took that conclusion and ran with it, making this forum post.

They supported what their constituency supported. Way to go, Republicans.

 

[pcgeek11]

German companies don't have such a backward view of Unions...

...

Do you work for a German Company in the US. No I didn't think so.

I do, I work for one the largest Companies in Germany. They will not even allow Union Organizers on the Plant property. They will come around every year or so and hang out at the stoplight leaving the plant and try and hand out fliers. Funny I've never seen anyone take one.