Republicans senators against net neutrality

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Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Originally posted by: charrison

Unfortunately this guy is an idiot and cant even get the little stuff right. That $300B, not long ago was $200B. I am still not sure how he comes up with that number.


It is easy if you bother to read. They suck $20 billion a year from taxpayers in tax cuts and incentives given to them so they could provide FTH, which they didn't do.


DSL was top of line technology in 1992. Yes fiber still beat it, but fiber was overkill for a dialup world and dsl was far less expensive to deploy.

You clearly haven't read anything. They promised fiber to the home , not copper. That wasn't the deal, so yes it is a bait and switch.


At this point ATT has upgraded >18M lines for uverse. Verizon has upgraded >12M lines for fios. Together that makes about 30M. Together they have a bit over 3M subscribers. I guess he thinks everyupgrade line should be in use before it is counted? He is only off by a factor of 10.

Do you know why Verizon did that ? It wasn't because they wanted customers to have better access. It was because of competition. Notice they are not installing it everywhere they can, just where there is competition. The telco promised all homes 118 million of them would have fiber by now, where is it ?

While we are talking about counting lines , did you know that Verizon and ATT cut the copper lines to homes after installing fios yet still count them as active subscriber lines when they file for taxes ? They have done that for years.

They also were caught filing over $80 billion of losses on equipment that doesn't even exist.

Speeds have been going up and prices have been going down. I pay less for broadband today than I did for dialup. I can get 18meg down for less than I paid for ISDN.

Prices are going down ? Really for who We pay more for broadband than any other country in the world on the same economic level and get less for the money .



Between voip and wireless there is more phone competition than ever.

Who owns the wireless ? oh thats right, verizon, ATT, etc. VOIP ? Did you know that the telco made sure that voip would be required to pay all fees that they used to have to pay but do not have to pay now because they got the FCC to repeal the common carrier laws ? Have you heard how verizon got wireless spectrum cheap by filing under a shell corporation allowing them to buy the spectrum at a reduced rate as a very small business ? Does verizon look like a very small business to you ?


This guy is simply not honest in his simple argument, so I doubt any of his arguments are honest.

He has worked in the industry for over 30 years along with many other people that do this as consultants. If you bothered to watch the videos you would see that he has former FCC officials talking all about the underhanded tricks that telcos have pulled and how much they have screwed over the consumer.

The telco are crooks, anyone who takes an hour and goes back to see how it all started can see they are as dirty as they come.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Modelworks


It is easy if you bother to read. They suck $20 billion a year from taxpayers in tax cuts and incentives given to them so they could provide FTH, which they didn't do.




So what law(s) currently provide $20B/year in subsidy to which telecoms for FTTH deployment?

You clearly haven't read anything. They promised fiber to the home , not copper. That wasn't the deal, so yes it is a bait and switch.

Actually I have. He claims both pronto and lightspeed were promised FTTH build outs. Pronto was always about ADSL and lightspeed was always about vdsl. Both significantly reduced loop length. Ameritech( i think) tried a FTTH deployment early on, but it got canceled because of cost.


At this point ATT has upgraded >18M lines for uverse. Verizon has upgraded >12M lines for fios. Together that makes about 30M. Together they have a bit over 3M subscribers. I guess he thinks everyupgrade line should be in use before it is counted? He is only off by a factor of 10.
[/quote]

Do you know why Verizon did that ? It wasn't because they wanted customers to have better access. It was because of competition. Notice they are not installing it everywhere they can, just where there is competition. The telco promised all homes 118 million of them would have fiber by now, where is it ?

There was no nation wide promise to wire every home with fiber and there is no telco that has 118m homes to serve. Yes verizon is upgrading because they have too and they are doing by areas that are more populated. This should surprise no one.

While we are talking about counting lines , did you know that Verizon and ATT cut the copper lines to homes after installing fios yet still count them as active subscriber lines when they file for taxes ? They have done that for years.

They also were caught filing over $80 billion of losses on equipment that doesn't even exist.

Why should verizon support copper after it replaces it? And ATT Does not not have fios, so they have not cut that copper. yet.

$80B sure.

Prices are going down ? Really for who We pay more for broadband than any other country in the world on the same economic level and get less for the money .

I can say they have for me. I paid about $40 for dailup in 1995. I paid $85 for isdn in 2001 and i now pay $25 for 3meg service. Today I could get 18meg for for less than $85. and these numbers are not even adjusted for inflation.

Between voip and wireless there is more phone competition than ever.
Who owns the wireless ? oh thats right, verizon, ATT, etc. VOIP ? Did you know that the telco made sure that voip would be required to pay all fees that they used to have to pay but do not have to pay now because they got the FCC to repeal the common carrier laws ? Have you heard how verizon got wireless spectrum cheap by filing under a shell corporation allowing them to buy the spectrum at a reduced rate as a very small business ? Does verizon look like a very small business to you ?
But the fact remains if you want voice service, you have plenty of options. It is a very competitive market. IF you have also not noticed pots lines are heavily regulated and heavily taxed making them even more uncompetitive with voip.


This guy is simply not honest in his simple argument, so I doubt any of his arguments are honest.
He has worked in the industry for over 30 years along with many other people that do this as consultants. If you bothered to watch the videos you would see that he has former FCC officials talking all about the underhanded tricks that telcos have pulled and how much they have screwed over the consumer.

The telco are crooks, anyone who takes an hour and goes back to see how it all started can see they are as dirty as they come.

I have not said the telcos are saints, but his arguments by in large are quite exaggerated.

 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Originally posted by: Genx87
When you have just a few % of the userbase consuming 50-80% of the network. It makes it damn near impossible to build capacity fast enough to provide for the other 95% of the users. If ISP could shape the traffic, those leeches detrimental affect on the network would be reduced.

How is someone paying for their service a "leech"? Sounds like a load of bullshit to me. Someones video conference is no more important than my mp3 download because I pay for the service the same as they do, just because they think their traffic is more important does not make it so.
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Originally posted by: xj0hnx
Originally posted by: Genx87
When you have just a few % of the userbase consuming 50-80% of the network. It makes it damn near impossible to build capacity fast enough to provide for the other 95% of the users. If ISP could shape the traffic, those leeches detrimental affect on the network would be reduced.

How is someone paying for their service a "leech"? Sounds like a load of bullshit to me. Someones video conference is no more important than my mp3 download because I pay for the service the same as they do, just because they think their traffic is more important does not make it so.

You are wasting your breath. Pretty much their argument boils down to "whats good for the corporation, is good for me". They don't care about equal service or distribution or any solution or situation that potential cause the service providers to actually have to provide service.
This particular argument gets their blood really pumping because aside from blindly agree with big business, they also have a chance to talk disparagingly against another bane of corporate profits, "internet file sharing".
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Originally posted by: charrison

I can say they have for me. I paid about $40 for dailup in 1995.

Then you were ripped off because I've never paid more than $20 per month for dialup, period. :D

And as for broadband, maybe the price per megabit/sec has went down, but the monthly bill price has went up. Of course, I could switch to one of those "teaser" rates for a year or so with a competitor but I'm so damn stuck using the e-mail address, it's difficult (lesson learned: I should be moving all of my accounts to a Gmail account or the likes) :(

As far as net neutrality, if the companies used QoS for all providers the same, not really an issue, but if the provider gives preference to one company over another (whether it be for money paid to them, political beliefs, etc), then I have a problem with it (i.e. If your ISP gives Google normal bandwidth and only gives Yahoo 5% bandwidth). I'm not a power user downloading GB's per day (or hour lol), but if my service starts slowing or lagging because the providers can do whatever the hell they want, then fuck them (and I would be for NN in a heartbeat if that happened).
 

SirStev0

Lifer
Nov 13, 2003
10,449
6
81
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison

I can say they have for me. I paid about $40 for dailup in 1995.

Then you were ripped off because I've never paid more than $20 per month for dialup, period. :D

And as for broadband, maybe the price per megabit/sec has went down, but the monthly bill price has went up. Of course, I could switch to one of those "teaser" rates for a year or so with a competitor but I'm so damn stuck using the e-mail address, it's difficult (lesson learned: I should be moving all of my accounts to a Gmail account or the likes) :(

As far as net neutrality, if the companies used QoS for all providers the same, not really an issue, but if the provider gives preference to one company over another (whether it be for money paid to them, political beliefs, etc), then I have a problem with it (i.e. If your ISP gives Google normal bandwidth and only gives Yahoo 5% bandwidth). I'm not a power user downloading GB's per day (or hour lol), but if my service starts slowing or lagging because the providers can do whatever the hell they want, then fuck them (and I would be for NN in a heartbeat if that happened).

Seriously, I lived in bumble fuck and I only paid $30 for dialup back in the day. Now I am living in a different region of bumblefuck and paying $50 a month for 8mbps, which is really more like 4.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Originally posted by: charrison

So what law(s) currently provide $20B/year in subsidy to which telecoms for FTTH deployment?

Telco still receive the tax privileges and fees from deregulation that was a result of their promise to provide FTTH . They receive those fees and tax breaks as a direct result of their promises to the taxpayers. If they had not made them to get deregulation they would not be where they are now.


There was no nation wide promise to wire every home with fiber and there is no telco that has 118m homes to serve.


Some quotes that the telco told congress to get deregulation pushed through:

NYNEX, 1993 Annual Report 19
?We're prepared to install between 1.5 and 2
million fiber optic lines through 1996 to begin
building our portion of the Information
Superhighway.?

Bell Atlantic1993 Annual Report
"First, we announced our intention to lead the
country in the deployment of the information
highway.? We will spend $11 billion over the
next five years to rapidly build full-service
networks capable of providing these services
within the Bell Atlantic Region.
"We expect Bell Atlantic's enhanced network
will be ready to serve 8.75 million homes by the
end of the year 2000. By the end of 1998, we
plan to wire the top 20 markets.? These
investments will help establish Bell Atlantic as a
world leader?."

Bell Atlantic Press Release, July 1996.
The company plans to add digital video
broadcast capabilities to this "fiber-to-the-curb",
switched broadband network by the third quarter
of 1997?Bell Atlantic plans to begin its network
upgrade in Philadelphia and southeastern
Pennsylvania later this year?. Ultimately, Bell
Atlantic expects to serve most of the 12 million
homes and small businesses across the mid-
Atlantic region with switched broadband
networks."

Pacific Bell, 1993
"In November 1993, Pacific Bell announced a
capital investment plan totaling $16 billion over
the next seven years to upgrade core network
infrastructure and to begin building California's
"Communications superhighway". Using a
combination of fiber optics and coaxial cable,
Pacific Bell expects to provide broadband
services to more than 1.5 million homes by the
end of 1996, 5 million homes by the end of the
decade."

SNET 1993 Annual Report
?On January 13, 1994, the Telephone Company
announced its intention to invest $4.5 billion over
the next 15 years to build a statewide information
superhighway ("I-SNET"). I-SNET will be an
interactive multimedia network capable of
delivering voice, video and a full range of
information and interactive services.?


SBC 2004 Annual Report
?Project Lightspeed In June 2004, we announced
key advances in developing a network capable of
delivering a new generation of integrated IP video,
super-high-speed broadband and VoIP services to
our residential and small-business customers,
referred to as Project Lightspeed?
?We anticipate that we will deploy
approximately 38,800 miles of fiber, reaching
approximately 18 million households by year-end
2007,
and expect to spend approximately $4
billion over the next three years in deployment
costs and $1 billion in customer-activation capital
expenditures spread over 2006 and 2007.?

SNET 1993 Annual Report83
?On January 13, 1994, the Telephone Company announced its intention to invest
$4.5 billion over the next 15 years to build a statewide information superhighway
("I-SNET"). I-SNET will be an interactive multimedia network capable of
delivering voice, video and a full range of information and interactive services.
The Telephone Company expects I-SNET will reach approximately 500,000
residences and businesses through 1997.?

US West 1993 Annual Report 99
?U.S. West will construct an advanced fiber-to-the-curb/coaxial cable network
capable of providing 77 channels of analog video and between 800 and 1000
channels of digital capacity.?

?The fiber-to-the-curb architecture that Bell Atlantic will build is the next step in
the company's ongoing, aggressive network modernization program?. Bell
Atlantic plans to begin its network upgrade in Philadelphia and southeaster
Pennsylvania later this year. The company plans to expand this Full Service
Network deployment to other key markets over the next three years. Ultimately,
Bell Atlantic expects to serve most of the 12 million homes and small businesses
across the mid-Atlantic region with switched broadband networks." (by 2000)

?Verizon PA has committed to making 20% of its access lines in each of rural,
suburban, and urban rate centers broadband capable within five days from the
customer request date by end of year 1998; 50% by 2004; and 100% by 2015."

In 1992, testimony given by Verizon (then New Jersey Bell), in order to receive financial
incentives to rewire the state, claimed that broadband was 45 Mbps services (or higher) and was
capable of "high definition video" in both directions.

"Broadband Digital Service ? Switching Capabilities matched with transportation
capabilities supporting data rates up to 45,000,000 bits per second (45 Mbps) and
higher, which enables services, for example, that will allow residential and business
customers to receive high definition video and to send and receive interactive (i.e.,
two way) video signals."



Yes verizon is upgrading because they have too and they are doing by areas that are more populated. This should surprise no one.

Of course it shouldn't surprise them. They are only doing what they have always done, profiting at the expense of the consumer. That is why they should not be allowed to own the infrastructure that supports the last mile. Their is no reason for them to own the cable going into someones home. It blocks competition and gives them a monopoly.



Why should verizon support copper after it replaces it? And ATT Does not not have fios, so they have not cut that copper. yet.

That is the point, they don't support it when they replace it with fiber. But they still use it for tax purposes. They show them as possible active subscriber lines that are not subscribed and then write them off as a loss as if they would normally receive revenue from them.



I can say they have for me. I paid about $40 for dailup in 1995. I paid $85 for isdn in 2001 and i now pay $25 for 3meg service. Today I could get 18meg for for less than $85. and these numbers are not even adjusted for inflation.

You pay $85 for 18Mb ? You were supposed to have 45Mb for less than that. So who is being cheated ?


According to the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission in 2003:
"In view of Bell's commitment to providing 45 Mbps for digital video transmission
both upstream and downstream, we look forward to Bell's providing this two-way
digital video transmission at 45 Mbps."


"On customer request, the electing company shall provide broadband digital service that
is capable of providing transmission speeds of up to 45 megabits per second or better for
customer applications."
Even in one of the industry?s bibles, Newton's Telecom Dictionary, ?Broadband? was defined
as a service with a speed of 45 Mbps as late as 2001.105

?Broadband ? a transmission facility providing bandwidth greater than 45
Mbps (T3). Broadband systems generally are fiber optic in nature.?106
(ED NOTE: This definition in the Newton?s Telecom Dictionary has since changed to fit the new
idea that slower is more politically correct.)

Notice is was changed by the FCC to 200kbps to make the USA not look so bad when asking about broadband number of households.




But the fact remains if you want voice service, you have plenty of options. It is a very competitive market. IF you have also not noticed pots lines are heavily regulated and heavily taxed making them even more uncompetitive with voip.

What options does a homeowner have other than his local carrier for landlines ?
Wireless is competitive ? How many competitors are there really ? Count them and then divide that by who finances the companies and who provides the service through those companies . As for POTS regulation, you mean regulations like these :

The Federal Communications Commission voted 4-0 to reclassify digital subscriber lines as an "information service" that would be far less regulated that traditional phone service.

The change means the government no longer will require phone companies to lease their highspeed lines at regulated rates to competing Internet service providers such as Atlanta-based EarthLink Inc.

BellSouth vice president Herschel Abbott issued a statement saying FCC Chairman Kevin Martin "should be widely applauded for pushing to completion these sweeping changes."




That really helped the consumer.




They promised everything they could to get deregulation. Just give them the money and they promise they would provide competition, help the consumer and fiber for everyone. Then after they got what they wanted.

"Bell Atlantic Delays Home Video Service," the Washington Post, April 26, 1995
"Bell Atlantic Corporation yesterday delayed indefinitely the home video service
it had promised to introduce here and elsewhere in its mid-Atlantic service region
this year."

?Bell Atlantic Halts Plan for Video Services,? The New York Times, April 26, 1995
?Bell Atlantic Corporation called an abrupt halt to its scramble into television
yesterday. Saying it wanted to rethink its strategy for upgrading its telephone
network, the company asked the Federal Communications Commission to
suspend its application to offer video services to as many as three million
telephone customers??

"Pac Tel Cuts $1 Billion Interactive Plan", New York Post, September 28, 1995
"Pacific Telesis Group said it will cut $1 billion over 5 years from proposed
spending on its Information Superhighway amid concerns about costs, competition
and regulations.... The company's revamped strategy calls for it to substitute old
fashion roof top antennae for cable in some areas."


What the telco told the stockholders, they were overjoyed:
?In 1994, Ameritech proactively changed the way in which we are regulated. We
have replaced rate of return regulation with price-cap plans without earnings
sharing in all five states in which we are franchised as a communications carrier.
As a result 100% of Ameritech?s $8 billion of intrastate revenues are now
regulated by prices , not earnings. The plans foster market based pricing and give
Ameritech greater incentive to earn more by allowing us to keep all that we earn."


And why wouldn't the stockholders be happy. Look at the income before regulation was removed and after:
From 1988 through 1992, Ameritech?s average was
15.6% ?return on equity?, the standard measurement of business returns, the ?dividend? paid to
its shareholders was $1.16, and the ?net income? was about $2.2 billion. By 1993, the numbers
start climbing and by 1998 the dividend increased 187% to $3.27, the return on equity was now
36.2%, an increase of 129%, and the net income was $4.2 billion, an increase of 97%


Every time anyone questions the motives of the telco they come out with press releases, they seem to be good at that. What I can't understand is why people continue to believe them.
?In a conference call today, the company will say network lab and field trials are
under way, network construction is scheduled to begin in the first quarter of 2005
and SBC's new IP-based network is expected to be available to 18 million
households by the end of 2007. The launch of IP-based TV services over the new
network is planned for the fourth quarter of 2005.?



Other tricks they do to get by things like taxes:
In 1999 the FCC released a series of audits of the Bell
companies? Continuing Property Records. It found $18.6 billion in missing or unverifiable
equipment, about 22% of the equipment on the books. For example, the FCC wrote that 24%
of Bell Atlantic's equipment either couldn't be matched with the FCC records, or the
equipment simply wasn't there. And the records themselves had massive amounts of
nonsense entries .

Political pressures made the FCC drop the audits and turned them over to the state commissions.
In the last three years, the phone companies have written off $17 billion more than they put into new construction.


New Jersey Ratepayer Advocate, April 1997
"low income and residential customers have paid for the fiber optic lines every
month but have not yet benefited.



It is really sad how much they have gotten away with and nobody has called them on it except one state New Jersey. There verizon has been sued by the state. I guess people don't understand how the whole system works. All they know is they want broadband cheap and when they complain the telco put out another press release promising some new wonder service at cheap prices while laughing all the way to the bank.

If you want to see the whole things , facts figures, including references to back up everything , download the pdf below:
http://www.teletruth.org/docs/broadbandscandalfree.pdf
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Originally posted by: charrison

So what law(s) currently provide $20B/year in subsidy to which telecoms for FTTH deployment?

Telco still receive the tax privileges and fees from deregulation that was a result of their promise to provide FTTH . They receive those fees and tax breaks as a direct result of their promises to the taxpayers. If they had not made them to get deregulation they would not be where they are now.


Pleas site the law(s).



Some quotes that the telco told congress to get deregulation pushed through:

And my guess most of them are out of context as I know several of them are.
Cost did become an issue with many of these plans and promises. That is the other side of the coin. Fiber is not cheap to deploy now and it was even less cheap then.


SBC 2004 Annual Report
?Project Lightspeed In June 2004, we announced
key advances in developing a network capable of
delivering a new generation of integrated IP video,
super-high-speed broadband and VoIP services to
our residential and small-business customers,
referred to as Project Lightspeed?
?We anticipate that we will deploy
approximately 38,800 miles of fiber, reaching
approximately 18 million households by year-end
2007,
and expect to spend approximately $4
billion over the next three years in deployment
costs and $1 billion in customer-activation capital
expenditures spread over 2006 and 2007.?

This is a promise that was fulfilled. However it was a year late. They have pased 19M and are on their way to 30M homes by 2011 and should have no problem reaching it. ANd lightspeed was never about ftth, but this guy claims it was. It was always about VDSL deployment and using fiber to shortern loop lengths. He also claims project pronto was all about FTTH rather than adsl deployment, with fiber for loop shortening. He cannot make simple honest claims, hich makes the rest not very believable or suspect.



Of course it shouldn't surprise them. They are only doing what they have always done, profiting at the expense of the consumer. That is why they should not be allowed to own the infrastructure that supports the last mile. Their is no reason for them to own the cable going into someones home. It blocks competition and gives them a monopoly.
Telco profits are not excessive. I realize there is a case to be made for govt owned last mile, but then we are now talking about new 3rd network in the last mile. The fear is the is with anything run by the govt is it will be propped up by the unlimited taxes.


That is the point, they don't support it when they replace it with fiber. But they still use it for tax purposes. They show them as possible active subscriber lines that are not subscribed and then write them off as a loss as if they would normally receive revenue from them.
source please.


You pay $85 for 18Mb ? You were supposed to have 45Mb for less than that. So who is being cheated ?




According to the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission in 2003:
"In view of Bell's commitment to providing 45 Mbps for digital video transmission
both upstream and downstream, we look forward to Bell's providing this two-way
digital video transmission at 45 Mbps."



"On customer request, the electing company shall provide broadband digital service that
is capable of providing transmission speeds of up to 45 megabits per second or better for
customer applications."
Even in one of the industry?s bibles, Newton's Telecom Dictionary, ?Broadband? was defined
as a service with a speed of 45 Mbps as late as 2001.105

?Broadband ? a transmission facility providing bandwidth greater than 45
Mbps (T3). Broadband systems generally are fiber optic in nature.?106
(ED NOTE: This definition in the Newton?s Telecom Dictionary has since changed to fit the new
idea that slower is more politically correct.)

Notice is was changed by the FCC to 200kbps to make the USA not look so bad when asking about broadband number of households.

No that promise was never made and what you quoted was one state. I am sure you can get 45/45 to your house if you call the telco and ask. You probably however will not like the price.




What options does a homeowner have other than his local carrier for landlines ?
Wireless is competitive ? How many competitors are there really ? Count them and then divide that by who finances the companies and who provides the service through those companies . As for POTS regulation, you mean regulations like these :

For traditional pots, there is the telco. But wireline voice service is offered by both cable and telco no, so there are wired options. Then the are tons of voip services and many wireless options. And pots is being displaced by the other options at this point.

The Federal Communications Commission voted 4-0 to reclassify digital subscriber lines as an "information service" that would be far less regulated that traditional phone service.

The change means the government no longer will require phone companies to lease their highspeed lines at regulated rates to competing Internet service providers such as Atlanta-based EarthLink Inc.

BellSouth vice president Herschel Abbott issued a statement saying FCC Chairman Kevin Martin "should be widely applauded for pushing to completion these sweeping changes."





That really helped the consumer.

I was never a fan of this fuling, becuase it does not make much to force the lease of a product. However the telcos to this day still lease dsl lines, even wtihout the ruling. I dont think it helped or hurt the consumer as those leasing the lines were really adding nothing to the network.


They promised everything they could to get deregulation. Just give them the money and they promise they would provide competition, help the consumer and fiber for everyone. Then after they got what they wanted.


"Bell Atlantic Delays Home Video Service," the Washington Post, April 26, 1995
"Bell Atlantic Corporation yesterday delayed indefinitely the home video service
it had promised to introduce here and elsewhere in its mid-Atlantic service region
this year."

?Bell Atlantic Halts Plan for Video Services,? The New York Times, April 26, 1995
?Bell Atlantic Corporation called an abrupt halt to its scramble into television
yesterday. Saying it wanted to rethink its strategy for upgrading its telephone
network, the company asked the Federal Communications Commission to
suspend its application to offer video services to as many as three million
telephone customers??

"Pac Tel Cuts $1 Billion Interactive Plan", New York Post, September 28, 1995
"Pacific Telesis Group said it will cut $1 billion over 5 years from proposed
spending on its Information Superhighway amid concerns about costs, competition
and regulations.... The company's revamped strategy calls for it to substitute old
fashion roof top antennae for cable in some areas."


Yes there were cost problems. Iiber is still very expensive to deploy today and it was even more expensive then.


Like I said the telcos are not saints, but this guy is not honest in his arguments either.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: charrison

I can say they have for me. I paid about $40 for dailup in 1995.

Then you were ripped off because I've never paid more than $20 per month for dialup, period. :D
I was including 2nd dedicated phoneline in that cost. So the cost was probably a bit higher.

And as for broadband, maybe the price per megabit/sec has went down, but the monthly bill price has went up. Of course, I could switch to one of those "teaser" rates for a year or so with a competitor but I'm so damn stuck using the e-mail address, it's difficult (lesson learned: I should be moving all of my accounts to a Gmail account or the likes) :(
Yes you should move to a gmail account. I do agree that they have tried to keep the base plan at the least the same price, while increasing speed. However there are now plenty of options for low speed plans. I pay$25/month for 3/1 and I think it is great deal.

As far as net neutrality, if the companies used QoS for all providers the same, not really an issue, but if the provider gives preference to one company over another (whether it be for money paid to them, political beliefs, etc), then I have a problem with it (i.e. If your ISP gives Google normal bandwidth and only gives Yahoo 5% bandwidth). I'm not a power user downloading GB's per day (or hour lol), but if my service starts slowing or lagging because the providers can do whatever the hell they want, then fuck them (and I would be for NN in a heartbeat if that happened).

There are problems that need to be addressed on this issue, bu telco do need to e able to use QOS to manage their networks without excessive regulation, or networks costs are going to go way up. The biggest problem I see these days is houw the cable companies are going to handle netflix competition against their VOD. I agree there could be significant issues with this.

 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Originally posted by: charrison
The biggest problem I see these days is houw the cable companies are going to handle netflix competition against their VOD. I agree there could be significant issues with this.

Provide better content? Better service? Better rates? They can compete without screwing the customer.