Republicans kill 9/11 first responder aid bill

[Arkaign]

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5746&type=0&sequence=1#pt4

Look at effective tax rates from 1979-2001. 2001-present is also there, in a different document.

Effective tax rates for all individuals (quintiles) have gone down, with the lowest quintile at a negative rate, except for the highest quintile. The top 10%, 5%, and 1% have all seen their effective tax rates increase after some fluctuationsthroughout the years.

So your assertion that the rich have a lower effective tax rate is simply false. They are, on average, taxed more. The top quintile pays more than twice the effective rate than others.

It's complicated, let me use a simple example (not actual % of real taxes, but close enough to get the point across) :

Family A makes $100k/year gross, and pays $22k in income taxes, so 22%, leaving them 78k to live on.

Family B makes $1M/year gross, and pays $333k in income taxes, so 33%, leaving them 667k to live on.

So the (B) example definitely pays a lot more in taxes, both in actuality and by %. But in terms of impact on actual lifestyle/family economic health, the (A) family is hurt more. The difference between making it on almost $700k a year vs. $1m a year should be minimal at most, while the difference between $80k and $100k can be quite substantial, particularly if you're trying to stay in a good area of say Boston, NYC, SF, etc.

I'm not saying that the rich need to be taxed more by any means, just that there are logical reasons for a progressive tax system (as well as some drawbacks). If our gov't was more efficient and didn't get into so many boondoggles (Iraq for example, and too many pork-barrel lunatic bills to mention) we could actually lower the tax rate on the wealthy and actually balance our budget.

EDIT : Another good example of how bad flat rates can be for people, I have an aquantaince that is a single mom of two, works two jobs, can hardly afford day care/car payment/rent/etc. Her insurance lapsed, and she got a ticket for over $500. She was able to get it put on deferred to keep it off her record, but the county still wanted the full fine amount to do the deferral, even though she was only without insurance for a few days. To a person making $500k/year, that kind of thing is laughably irrelevant. To a person with perhaps $200/mo outside of critical bills, it's virtually a catastrophe, the kind of thing that makes their children go hungry, and if it's not paid, the person can be sent to jail, bringing all kinds of undue burden on these people.

A sliding scale would work wonders in such areas, but would be ludicrously difficult to implement.

 

[Jhhnn]

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5746&type=0&sequence=1#pt4

Look at effective tax rates from 1979-2001. 2001-present is also there, in a different document.

Effective tax rates for all individuals (quintiles) have gone down, with the lowest quintile at a negative rate, except for the highest quintile. The top 10%, 5%, and 1% have all seen their effective tax rates increase after some fluctuationsthroughout the years.

So your assertion that the rich have a lower effective tax rate is simply false. They are, on average, taxed more. The top quintile pays more than twice the effective rate than others.

Hogwash. Read it and weep-

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/07intop400.pdf

They're strongly anti-tax, btw, so it seems obvious that they wouldn't claim americans are paying less than what's the truth...

The top quintile doesn't define "rich", at all, but the top .1% does, and they've made out like the bandits they are...

 

[Carmen813]

Easy - there's never been such a radical agenda, implemented by such dishonest politicians, who are so out of touch with the American people, who have had complete control of Congress and the White House and the Main Stream Media and who nearly retain total control over same. For instance, the Republicans have NEVER had such power as the Democrats enjoyed, even discounting the media, so the Democrats were free to hold their filibusters to the important issues such as civil rights and whether or not we have enough Robert Byrd Train Stations and Libraries in every bill.

I would consider ending habeus corpus, establishing secret detention facilities in foreign countries, condoning torture, stripping Americans of civil liberties, starting a war for no reason, attempting to codify (more) Judeo-Christian morals into law, destroying our foreign relations, and a tax agenda that solidified wealth in the upper classes to be a radical agenda.

And I'd consider it a whole hell of a lot more harmful than trying to get some people health insurance...

So if that is what Republicans/Conservatives can accomplish without having near as much power as Democrats enjoyed, then you are damn right I'm happy.

Sometimes I wonder if those on the right live in some sort of mystical fantasy world where nothing bad ever happened with Conservatives in power. I find the cries of media bias to be utterly hilarious, given that the number one "news" station is by far Fox News, and that print media has been rapidly dying off. In fact, I'd wager the majority of people now get their news off the internet...

 

[werepossum]

I would consider ending habeus corpus, establishing secret detention facilities in foreign countries, condoning torture, stripping Americans of civil liberties, starting a war for no reason, attempting to codify (more) Judeo-Christian morals into law, destroying our foreign relations, and a tax agenda that solidified wealth in the upper classes to be a radical agenda.

And I'd consider it a whole hell of a lot more harmful than trying to get some people health insurance...

So if that is what Republicans/Conservatives can accomplish without having near as much power as Democrats enjoyed, then you are damn right I'm happy.

Sometimes I wonder if those on the right live in some sort of mystical fantasy world where nothing bad ever happened with Conservatives in power. I find the cries of media bias to be utterly hilarious, given that the number one "news" station is by far Fox News, and that print media has been rapidly dying off. In fact, I'd wager the majority of people now get their news off the internet...

Fox News is by far the number one cable news network. Vastly more people get their news from alternative sources, mostly network (practically all old people for instance) and most young people get their "news" from programs like Colbere and Jon Stewart.

Amusing that you think a tax code which increases the portion of the tax burden paid by the wealthy somehow solidifies wealth, yet apparently direct transfer payments to bankers somehow do not. Your attitude toward "trying to get some people health insurance" is dangerous though. The federal government has no money that it has not taken from someone else, at the point of a gun where necessary (just ask Wesley Snipes.) Any good it does must necessarily be proceeded by the evil of taking one person's wealth for another person's gain. Somehow as a people we've developed an entitlement mentality.

 

[PeshakJang]

Hogwash. Read it and weep-

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/07intop400.pdf

They're strongly anti-tax, btw, so it seems obvious that they wouldn't claim americans are paying less than what's the truth...

The top quintile doesn't define "rich", at all, but the top .1% does, and they've made out like the bandits they are...

I'm going to go ahead and assume that you haven't read (or you simply don't understand) any of your links, because they say about the same thing as the CBO statistics that I provided... both of which support my claim that the "rich", however you define them, pay a higher effective tax rate than the rest of society.

 

[fustercluck]

Shows how inept congress is. They can't pass the most obvious thing because of upcoming elections or some shit. Major fail on both sides but mostly repub - How could they not pass a bill that helps heroes of 9/11? Wouldn't voting no on this really hurt those congressmen in the polls?

Daily Show did a great segment on this last night: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-4-2010/i-give-up---9-11-responders-bill