Because the burden doesn't go away when it's shifted off businesses, and moving it around doesn't help the economy as much as some people would like to argue it does.
Because the burden doesn't go away when it's shifted off businesses, and moving it around doesn't help the economy as much as some people would like to argue it does.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,525
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A person's health is an individual responsibility and burden. Collectivizing it only hurts everyone.
Because they aren't. In addition their health care systems consume far less of their GDP than ours does, once again providing for competitive advantage.
And unless you are willing to allow your fellow Americans to die in the street if they don't have health insurance, you are endorsing universal health care. Period. Since most Americans aren't monsters, they are unwilling to do this, so the only real question is how we best administer our universal health care.
Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 39,230
- 701
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I can think of a lot of reasons, both moral and practical, but your changing your argument. You were arguing that we shouldn't enact "Obamacare" like measures because it would "hurt business", I'm not sure what this has to do with that argument...
But you said that it's a stupid idea because it hurts businesses in a recession, I can't imagine the reason is because it's a personal responsibility...that sounds like a completely different argument to me.
And to be 100% honest, I have NEVER heard a solid argument for why collectivizing health care "hurts everyone" beyond people calling it "socialism" (which I guess makes it inherently bad). Regular insurance is ALREADY "collectivizing" health care, that's the whole point of insurance in the first place. Yet very few people seem to object to existing health insurance. The only new piece of the puzzle is making sure everyone is covered by the system, which hardly seems harmful to me.
OrByte
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2000
- 9,303
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Obama went after jobs first....and he was pulling the GOP along with him....of course they were kicking and screaming about it.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Existing insurance is VOLUNTARY private group agreements that are allowed to include, and exclude people at will. Socialized health care is not.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Ah yes, the "die in the street" argument. Akin to "cost to society" and "think of the children!"
Healthcare can not be a right anymore than food and shelter or emolyment can be a right. You cannot make the work product of one man the right of another.
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
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her209
No Lifer
- Oct 11, 2000
- 56,336
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- 0
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
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Then you should have no problem allowing ER's to throw people who can't afford to pay for care off their property.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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Engineer
Elite Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 39,230
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It's not charity. You, me and everyone else that actually pays for healthcare are already paying for it. The costs are being passed to you in several ways...higher prices at the hospital and higher prices for your insurance...not to mention paying higher taxes for those on Medicaid. You're paying it whether you want to and the fact that the ER is so much more expensive than a general practitioner does nothing to help the situation.
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
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You are dodging the question. Should hospital have the right to throw people it doesn't believe can pay out of the ER?
OrByte
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2000
- 9,303
- 144
- 106
Quote for the article in the OP:
"I think this week's election was a historic rejection of American liberalism and the Obama and Pelosi agenda," said Rep. Mike Pence, the Indiana Republican who is stepping down from his post in GOP leadership. "The American people are tired of the borrowing, the spending, the bailouts, the takeovers."
and one more:
"This was a huge, huge issue in the election last Tuesday," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. "A vast majority of Americans feel very, very uncomfortable with this new <Healthcare> bill. People who supported us, political independents, want it repealed and replaced with something else. I think we owe it to them to try."
It appears as though the Republicans are going to misinterpret the will of "We The People" just as bad as Obama did. I don't get the logic, people are upset at the economy and the GOP figures that means they MUST repeal Obamacare?
ok.
"I think this week's election was a historic rejection of American liberalism and the Obama and Pelosi agenda," said Rep. Mike Pence, the Indiana Republican who is stepping down from his post in GOP leadership. "The American people are tired of the borrowing, the spending, the bailouts, the takeovers."
and one more:
"This was a huge, huge issue in the election last Tuesday," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. "A vast majority of Americans feel very, very uncomfortable with this new <Healthcare> bill. People who supported us, political independents, want it repealed and replaced with something else. I think we owe it to them to try."
It appears as though the Republicans are going to misinterpret the will of "We The People" just as bad as Obama did. I don't get the logic, people are upset at the economy and the GOP figures that means they MUST repeal Obamacare?
ok.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
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theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
- 6,198
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You are dodging the question. Should hospital have the right to throw people it doesn't believe can pay out of the ER?
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,525
- 20,172
- 146
- Mar 20, 2000
- 102,407
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theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
- 6,198
- 126
You are dodging the question. Should hospital have the right to throw people it doesn't believe can pay out of the ER?
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,525
- 20,172
- 146
It's not a dodge at all. It's asking if you believe people should have a right to your workproduct without paying.
Nice try though.
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