Reports of an active shooter in San Bernadino

[Jodell88]

Well this thread has devolved into a hot mess.

What were you expecting?

 

[SP33Demon]

Really? Three people in body armor targeted a collection of leaders of an organization at a meeting. What do you call that? I mean, it doesn't take 2 brain cells to know that this is targeted and planned. Unless, you're one of those internet idiot that reacts on knee jerk emotions.

Methinks your idiocy extends beyond the digital realm.

You see, I'm one of the few moderates left in this country, and my solution is simple, makes sense, and satisfy both sides.

You want your guns? Sure, you can have your guns. You want control? Sure you can have control. It's simple.

Implement a certification program, where the would be owner will have to go through a gun safety and handling course, get certified, THEN you can buy your gun. Along with the certification, the potential owner will also have to be cleared of any psychological conditions that would make owning the gun inherently dangerous to others. The certifications are not transferable, just like when you go buy a car, the drivers license is not transferable. The next owner will need to get certified as well before he or she can legally take possession of the gun.

This will also create jobs that are related to this whole certification business, better for the economy. See? I should be President.

I like this solution SS.

 

[SP33Demon]

This is process already in place here in CT. It's definitely an improvement, but it doesn't weed out the mentally challenged people that aren't felons. It wouldn't have stopped this fellow, that's for sure.

Nothing we can ever do will change the fact that an angry or depressed person can get a gun if they try hard enough. No laws or control can ever fix that.

Except these people weren't exactly angry or depressed. They were premeditated Islamic killers equipped for more killing until someone tipped the police off on their black SUV. Lord knows what they were planning next.

 

[Bird222]

Just like Obama, I'm going to go on and on and on about it until the dummies in society finally grasp the concept that a gun free for all is not the answer. The founding fathers didn't have this in mind. In their time it was cumbersome muskets that fired one shot a minute, not assault rifles and portable pistols.

The 4th amendment says

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

They didn't know about the internet, computers or smart phones, but these are protected (sorta ) by the 4th. Interpretation of the constitution doesn't work like you think.

 

[Gunslinger08]

As someone with an alarm system that recently went off in the middle of the night and had to wait ~20 minutes for the police to show up, I find it alarming that anyone supports total disarmament.

 

[z1ggy]

Except these people weren't exactly angry or depressed. They were premeditated Islamic killers equipped for more killing until someone tipped the police off on their black SUV. Lord knows what they were planning next.

I'll wait a little while before I jump to conclusions about the motives behind the attack. It could simply be disgruntled employee. I mean... He was shooting up his coworkers, no? Obviously, it was premeditated, but that doesn't mean he did it because he's an extremist muslim.

 

[Anubis]

So, correct me if I am wrong here, but they found the terrorists with "Assault Rifles" (whatever that means here) along with other weapons. In CA, isn't the purchase of AR style firearms prohibited? And hasn't it been for a long time?

I'd like to know how that nutjob got his hands on these if it's so hard to do in that state.

 

[jlee]

I'll wait a little while before I jump to conclusions about the motives behind the attack. It could simply be disgruntled employee. I mean... He was shooting up his coworkers, no? Obviously, it was premeditated, but that doesn't mean he did it because he's an extremist muslim.

And even if they did, Muslims aren't the only extremists out there.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...11-right-wing-extremists-killed-more-america/

 

[z1ggy]

And even if they did, Muslims aren't the only extremists out there.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...11-right-wing-extremists-killed-more-america/

Yep, believe this. But we are now in the age of "Fear The Muslim" so the media wants to talk about that whole thing a lot more.

Even if this guy was just a pissed off angry employee who wanted to get revenge on coworkers, the media will milk this extremist muslim thing for as long as they can. Not saying he isn't one, but I'm sure they will try to let us know he 'could be' for as long as possible.

 

[SP33Demon]

I'll wait a little while before I jump to conclusions about the motives behind the attack. It could simply be disgruntled employee. I mean... He was shooting up his coworkers, no? Obviously, it was premeditated, but that doesn't mean he did it because he's an extremist muslim.

Then why was his wife there and why did she pre-meditate dropping the baby off for the attack? Why were they wearing go-pro's? Why did they have a modified remote controlled car with 4-8 homemade pipe bmbs? Why is the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force involved? Why did he go home to pray multiple times a day? Why were his self-proclaimed hobbies "reading religious books" and "target practice in the back yard"? Why did he seek out a woman to marry who abided by Sharia law (Saudi)? Come on man. If this isn't extremist muslim than I don't know what is.

 

[KeithP]

Then why was his wife there and why did she pre-meditate dropping the baby off for the attack? Why were they wearing go-pro's? Why did they have a modified remote controlled car with 4-8 homemade pipe bmbs? Why is the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force involved? Why did he go home to pray multiple times a day? Why were his self-proclaimed hobbies "reading religious books" and "target practice in the back yard"? Why did he seek out a woman to marry who abided by Sharia law (Saudi)? Come on man. If this isn't extremist muslim than I don't know what is.

Well, you know how it goes, it is fine to jump to conclusions if you are attacking the right but if the facts destroy your left leanings ignore them and blame the right some more.

-KeithP

 

[slightlyhuman]

This is process already in place here in CT. It's definitely an improvement, but it doesn't weed out the mentally challenged people that aren't felons. It wouldn't have stopped this fellow, that's for sure.

Nothing we can ever do will change the fact that an angry or depressed person can get a gun if they try hard enough. No laws or control can ever fix that.

I agree with you, it's such a huge and difficult beast to fix.. I'm just sick of the back and forth bipartisan shit that gets constantly thrown around. It's like we forget we're actually in the same god damn country sometimes

 

[purbeast0]

Then why was his wife there and why did she pre-meditate dropping the baby off for the attack? Why were they wearing go-pro's? Why did they have a modified remote controlled car with 4-8 homemade pipe bmbs? Why is the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force involved? Why did he go home to pray multiple times a day? Why were his self-proclaimed hobbies "reading religious books" and "target practice in the back yard"? Why did he seek out a woman to marry who abided by Sharia law (Saudi)? Come on man. If this isn't extremist muslim than I don't know what is.

lol @ thinking going home to pray multiple times a day = being a terrorist and reading religious books = being a terrorist.

i guess my coworker who was a muslim and used to close his office door to pray in his office must be a terrorist.

i guess the pastor who married my wife and i and also goes to prisons to help try to put guys back on the right path must be a terrorist since he reads religious books a lot.

there are some really stupid people on these forums.

 

[z1ggy]

Then why was his wife there and why did she pre-meditate dropping the baby off for the attack? Why were they wearing go-pro's? Why did they have a modified remote controlled car with 4-8 homemade pipe bmbs? Why is the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force involved? Why did he go home to pray multiple times a day? Why were his self-proclaimed hobbies "reading religious books" and "target practice in the back yard"? Why did he seek out a woman to marry who abided by Sharia law (Saudi)? Come on man. If this isn't extremist muslim than I don't know what is.

1) Because... she was just as nuts? How does this prove religious extremism?

2) The guy who killed the reporter and cameraman wore one... Was he killing in the name of Allah?

3) Bomb use... because yes, only Muslims use those....

4) Because, terror was had that day. Terror whether it be from muslims, Christians or some soccer mom next door are all events that could get that response.

5) The media wants you to make those connections. I like target practice... I don't read religious books, but so what?

Like I said, I'm not saying he's not one, but I tend to rely on facts and evidence. Not loosely strung together conclusions based on media reports 1 day after an event.

 

[OutHouse]

Please tell me why a gun that fires 20 bullets a second should be in the hands of everyday people, it would take only a few minutes to kill thousands.

But seriously people they had guns that can shoot close to 1000 bullets a minute. Why is such a gun needed.

just curious. are you just ignorant or do you just love to post 100% totally false information.

 

[SP33Demon]

1) Because... she was just as nuts? How does this prove religious extremism?

2) The guy who killed the reporter and cameraman wore one... Was he killing in the name of Allah?

3) Bomb use... because yes, only Muslims use those....

4) Because, terror was had that day. Terror whether it be from muslims, Christians or some soccer mom next door are all events that could get that response.

5) The media wants you to make those connections. I like target practice... I don't read religious books, but so what?

Like I said, I'm not saying he's not one, but I tend to rely on facts and evidence. Not loosely strung together conclusions based on media reports 1 day after an event.

You neglected the going home to pray multiple times a day. Who does that? It's borderline nuts. Nobody goes home to pray more than once a day unless it consumes their entire being. Add in all the other facts and we have a very likely situation it was caused as a result of his beliefs. It isn't a coincidence that he sought out a good sharia law wife. It isn't coincidence that they had stockpiled crazy amounts of ammo and tactical gear and made pipebmbs. This is all stemming from his nutjob religion, because that is what he spent a good chunk of his time doing.

 

[SP33Demon]

Oh, and Obama just said: "It is possible this is terror related."

 

[OutHouse]

1) Because... she was just as nuts? How does this prove religious extremism?

2) The guy who killed the reporter and cameraman wore one... Was he killing in the name of Allah?

3) Bomb use... because yes, only Muslims use those....

4) Because, terror was had that day. Terror whether it be from muslims, Christians or some soccer mom next door are all events that could get that response.

5) The media wants you to make those connections. I like target practice... I don't read religious books, but so what?

Like I said, I'm not saying he's not one, but I tend to rely on facts and evidence. Not loosely strung together conclusions based on media reports 1 day after an event.

you sound like a POS apologist just looking for reasons to sweep this under the rug.

 

[OutHouse]

Implement a certification program, where the would be owner will have to go through a gun safety and handling course, get certified, THEN you can buy your gun. Along with the certification, the potential owner will also have to be cleared of any psychological conditions that would make owning the gun inherently dangerous to others. The certifications are not transferable, just like when you go buy a car, the drivers license is not transferable. The next owner will need to get certified as well before he or she can legally take possession of the gun.

do you really think this would have made a difference with these to Jihadist?

 

[jlee]

do you really think this would have made a difference with these to Jihadist?

lol, yeah. "Gun safety and handling" courses are wholly irrelevant. If someone was cleaning a gun and accidentally shot 20 people, then sure. However...that's quite clearly not the case here.

 

[z1ggy]

you sound like a POS apologist just looking for reasons to sweep this under the rug.

Apologist... No.... Guy who isn't jumping to conclusions about the motivation of some person who committed a horrible act (clear mental issues)? Sure.

 

[Genx87]

I like this solution SS.

So how would his plan stop these people? All I see is the ability of law enforcement to deny a constitutional right based on no crime. This is like the idiotic idea democrats are floating to ban people from buying guns because they are on the terrorist watch list. Never mind nobody within govt will explain how anybody is placed on the list or how to get off.

At the end of the day it is a bunch of crap anyways. Just more security theater that wouldnt stop these mass shootings in any meaningful manner. But instead grant power to the state to ban constitutional right for people based on no crime.

 

[SSSnail]

do you really think this would have made a difference with these to Jihadist?

Of course not, but it satisfies the talking heads and the idiots on both sides of the gun control debate, AND it helps the economy.

And the point you bring up is precisely why the existence of gun control, or not, does not matter ONE bit to the people that REALLY wanted the guns to kill. Just want to reiterate that so the idiots clamoring for "gun control" without even offering a solution can somehow understand (aside from "get rid of all guns"), or realizing what that would do, both from a civil liberty point of view to defensive contingencies that may arise.

So how would his plan stop these people? All I see is the ability of law enforcement to deny a constitutional right based on no crime. This is like the idiotic idea democrats are floating to ban people from buying guns because they are on the terrorist watch list. Never mind nobody within govt will explain how anybody is placed on the list or how to get off.

At the end of the day it is a bunch of crap anyways. Just more security theater that wouldnt stop these mass shootings in any meaningful manner. But instead grant power to the state to ban constitutional right for people based on no crime.

Look at it as the same process as getting your drivers license, you NEED to be certified before you can buy a gun. Your constitutional rights can be denied if you have a criminal record, so much for that, right? So write into the bill the exact denial criteria, it isn't that difficult. Think.

 

[Genx87]

It should be noted if these people are labeled terrorists. If Trump gets his way their baby would be killed by the state soon.

 

[JulesMaximus]

do you really think this would have made a difference with these to Jihadist?

I just read this from the Washington Post website.

The ATF said it recovered two rifles and two handguns and was conducting “urgent traces” on their origins. All four weapons were legally purchased, and two of them were traced back to one the suspects, said Dannette Seward, a spokeswoman for the ATF. The other two were traced to another person, and that is still being investigated, she said.

Certainly wasn't difficult for them to get the guns they used and it appears that they did it legally.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...seek-motive-for-attack-that-killed-14-people/