Report: China sends nuke warning to U.S. over Taiwan

[LongCoolMother]

why cant taiwan just wait for this change to occur in the mainland? it seems like right now is perhaps the worst time possible to be rocking the boat with the independence movement. while they do deserve independence assuming the majority want it, why not just be slightly patient? it is very likely that in the future the mainland will change for the better. whats a few years to wait if it can save who knows how many lives, chinese, taiwanese, and american? i dont see the rush, as taiwan has been prospering for a good number of years now in the status-quo.. it would be a shame to go to war- be counterproductive to all sides, and destroy all the prosperity occuring right now in all countries: US, CHina, Taiwan right now. i just think its extremely harmful to all sides for taiwan to push for independence at this time, and this issue is better addressed when things have cooled.

 

[0roo0roo]

no, the fact is it is an independent country. china only got people to do some double talk over its existence as a matter of diplomacy, the reality is it is a separate nation.

yes, i know the western countries face such problems too. but actually projections of the us average population are still good. we will remain one of the youngest populations of developed nations. its in this weeks economist magazine in fact. china on the other hand faces some of the worst because of its one child policy. one child supporting two parents and 4 grand parents. the problem of ss in the us is a joke, it can be easily fixed with a few changes. chinas problems are far deeper, its population of poor is staggering. its farmland is continuously being lost by ever expanding deserts, and its already limited water supply is in serious question. its not as rosy as some people like to make out.

and yes i compared china to hitler. both are authoritarian regiems. and no, hitler wasn't bent on exterminating most peoples, just subjagating them. while china isn't hugely racist like hitlers germany, the lessons of appeasing aggressors is clear. you do not in any way even let them pretend they are allowed to contemplate threatening all out war. to allow even a slip in a resolve is to risk disaster.

you've already seen how ugly chinese nationalism can be with the riots over the japanese text books. and thats during good times. imagine their twisted nationalism harnessed by their communist leaders during recession.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
why cant taiwan just wait for this change to occur in the mainland? it seems like right now is perhaps the worst time possible to be rocking the boat with the independence movement. while they do deserve independence assuming the majority want it, why not just be slightly patient? it is very likely that in the future the mainland will change for the better. whats a few years to wait if it can save who knows how many lives, chinese, taiwanese, and american? i dont see the rush, as taiwan has been prospering for a good number of years now in the status-quo.. it would be a shame to go to war- be counterproductive to all sides, and destroy all the prosperity occuring right now in all countries: US, CHina, Taiwan right now. i just think its extremely harmful to all sides for taiwan to push for independence at this time, and this issue is better addressed when things have cooled.

It's been happening for quite a long time that's why. The thing is, all three sides know that there won't be any casualties. Taiwan is going to comply with China and remain part of China. The US won't and can't really do anything about it. China knows that destroying all of Taiwan will make the country useless to them. China wants Taiwan for economic reasons. US doesn't want China to become too powerful. China and Taiwan will strike a deal where both will be neutral. Taiwan just thinks they can live without the help of China. And I believe that they can live without the help of China but it's just nonsense because they're Chinese. Politics and government shouldn't divide a nation. If Taiwan started speaking a language that was not a dialect of Chinese and their writing changed to a point where it was different from Chinese, then there would be a reason for a country to declare independence. However just for the sake of thinking they have a democracy is no reason them to declare independence. It is just nonsense.

 

[0roo0roo]

It's been happening for quite a long time that's why. The thing is, all three sides know that there won't be any casualties. Taiwan is going to comply with China and remain part of China. The US won't and can't really do anything about it. China knows that destroying all of Taiwan will make the country useless to them. China wants Taiwan for economic reasons. US doesn't want China to become too powerful. China and Taiwan will strike a deal where both will be neutral. Taiwan just thinks they can live without the help of China. And I believe that they can live without the help of China but it's just nonsense because they're Chinese. Politics and government shouldn't divide a nation. If Taiwan started speaking a language that was not a dialect of Chinese and their writing changed to a point where it was different from Chinese, then there would be a reason for a country to declare independence. However just for the sake of thinking they have a democracy is no reason them to declare independence. It is just nonsense.

sorry, race based nationhood is simply invalid as an arguement. just don't go there. there are countries are of the "same race" but it doesn't mean they have to be the same country. under that kind of thinking england could still claim legitimate rule over america. think before you say sh*t.

 

[Pepsei]

the point is, People's Republic of China can't take "back" a country that it hasn't owned in the past. They have more claim to Mongolia, they should take that country back first.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, the fact is it is an independent country. china only got people to do some double talk over its existence as a matter of diplomacy, the reality is it is a separate nation.

yes, i know the western countries face such problems too. but actually projections of the us average population are still good. we will remain one of the youngest populations of developed nations. its in this weeks economist magazine in fact. china on the other hand faces some of the worst because of its one child policy. one child supporting two parents and 4 grand parents. the problem of ss in the us is a joke, it can be easily fixed with a few changes. chinas problems are far deeper, its population of poor is staggering. its farmland is continuously being lost by ever expanding deserts, and its already limited water supply is in serious question. its not as rosy as some people like to make out.

and yes i compared china to hitler. both are authoritarian regiems. and no, hitler wasn't bent on exterminating most peoples, just subjagating them. while china isn't hugely racist like hitlers germany, the lessons of appeasing aggressors is clear. you do not in any way even let them pretend they are allowed to contemplate threatening all out war. to allow even a slip in a resolve is to risk disaster.

you've already seen how ugly chinese nationalism can be with the riots over the japanese text books. and thats during good times. imagine their twisted nationalism harnessed by their communist leaders during recession.

I think you might be confused it's ability of becoming an independent country as opposed to it already being an independent country. But as far as I know, or thought, Taiwan is still part of China and that is why this issue still exists. That is why it wants to declare independence. But correct me if I'm wrong.

I strongly disagree the Social Security in the US can be fixed easily with changes as I don't think money nowadays, especially that huge amount of money is easy to come by. It needs lots of money for reform and it's money that the government doesn't have. It's true that the situation is China is not as rosy as it is. But I can't blame them, it's a huge country. Of course a growth too fast for any country can mean a faster and bigger downfall but I think China has the capacity to retain all of that. Maybe I am wrong.

You make it sound like China is declaring a war on US if it declares a war on China. I strongly believe that this sort of business has nothing to do with the US. I don't think the US should just stand and sit by on every problem but I also don't think they should interfere with every problem the world has.

As far as from the textbook issue goes. You have no idea what they're trying to do. Japan is trying to cover up what they did during WW2.

The first link here is the problem you describe.

The second link here is what really happened.

I think you would be extremely pissed if you (Japan) murdered, tortured, and experimented on millions of innocent men, women, and children and then tried to cover it up. To this day, as far as I know, Japan hasn't apologized for it.

Google Unit 731. Now if I told you that during WW2, they also did experiments on live American soldiers, which they did. And you know that the Japanese was trying to cover it up, which they are, then you would be pissed to.

Now here's another revealing fact. The US basically did nothing to the members of Unit 731 in exchange for the information from the Japanese.

I hope you have a better understanding of what really is going on and that the riots aren't just in vain and for stupid reasons.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, the fact is it is an independent country. china only got people to do some double talk over its existence as a matter of diplomacy, the reality is it is a separate nation.

yes, i know the western countries face such problems too. but actually projections of the us average population are still good. we will remain one of the youngest populations of developed nations. its in this weeks economist magazine in fact. china on the other hand faces some of the worst because of its one child policy. one child supporting two parents and 4 grand parents. the problem of ss in the us is a joke, it can be easily fixed with a few changes. chinas problems are far deeper, its population of poor is staggering. its farmland is continuously being lost by ever expanding deserts, and its already limited water supply is in serious question. its not as rosy as some people like to make out.

and yes i compared china to hitler. both are authoritarian regiems. and no, hitler wasn't bent on exterminating most peoples, just subjagating them. while china isn't hugely racist like hitlers germany, the lessons of appeasing aggressors is clear. you do not in any way even let them pretend they are allowed to contemplate threatening all out war. to allow even a slip in a resolve is to risk disaster.

you've already seen how ugly chinese nationalism can be with the riots over the japanese text books. and thats during good times. imagine their twisted nationalism harnessed by their communist leaders during recession.

I think you might be confused it's ability of becoming an independent country as opposed to it already being an independent country. But as far as I know, or thought, Taiwan is still part of China and that is why this issue still exists. That is why it wants to declare independence. But correct me if I'm wrong.
I strongly disagree the Social Security in the US can be fixed easily with changes as I don't think money nowadays, especially that huge amount of money is easy to come by. It needs lots of money for reform and it's money that the government doesn't have. It's true that the situation is China is not as rosy as it is. But I can't blame them, it's a huge country. Of course a growth too fast for any country can mean a faster and bigger downfall but I think China has the capacity to retain all of that. Maybe I am wrong.

You make it sound like China is declaring a war on US if it declares a war on China. I strongly believe that this sort of business has nothing to do with the US. I don't think the US should just stand and sit by on every problem but I also don't think they should interfere with every problem the world has.

As far as from the textbook issue goes. You have no idea what they're trying to do. Japan is trying to cover up what they did during WW2.

The first link here is the problem you describe.

The second link here is what really happened.

I think you would be extremely pissed if you (Japan) murdered, tortured, and experimented on millions of innocent men, women, and children and then tried to cover it up. To this day, as far as I know, Japan hasn't apologized for it.

Google Unit 731. Now if I told you that during WW2, they also did experiments on live American soldiers, which they did. And you know that the Japanese was trying to cover it up, which they are, then you would be pissed to.

Now here's another revealing fact. The US basically did nothing to the members of Unit 731 in exchange for the information from the Japanese.

I hope you have a better understanding of what really is going on and that the riots aren't just in vain and for stupid reasons.

That is my understanding of the situation with Taiwan, it is still apart of china, but is trying to push for complete independance.

 

[0roo0roo]

no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

its as if the union had won a few states in the civil war, pushed the confederacy to say...texas and stopped. a truce. after 50 years the union could not claim to still have the right to come back and take over.

as for japan. i'll let japan off the hook until the chinese acknowledge that mao was a true monster. 30 million dead. he beats everyone in terms of horror and murder. and of his own no less. i'm chinese so don't assume i know nothing about japanese history, i've been to the nanking rememberence display when it came to san fran.

just wait till the new book about mao comes out. from reviews i've seen it has mao scheming with the japanese in his struggle for power. he is complicit. its based on newly released soviet documents. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679422714/qid=1121856214/

and the fact is today japan is free. and to this day china is not, and attrocities and oppression continue.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

It's been happening for quite a long time that's why. The thing is, all three sides know that there won't be any casualties. Taiwan is going to comply with China and remain part of China. The US won't and can't really do anything about it. China knows that destroying all of Taiwan will make the country useless to them. China wants Taiwan for economic reasons. US doesn't want China to become too powerful. China and Taiwan will strike a deal where both will be neutral. Taiwan just thinks they can live without the help of China. And I believe that they can live without the help of China but it's just nonsense because they're Chinese. Politics and government shouldn't divide a nation. If Taiwan started speaking a language that was not a dialect of Chinese and their writing changed to a point where it was different from Chinese, then there would be a reason for a country to declare independence. However just for the sake of thinking they have a democracy is no reason them to declare independence. It is just nonsense.

sorry, race based nationhood is simply invalid as an arguement. just don't go there. there are countries are of the "same race" but it doesn't mean they have to be the same country. under that kind of thinking england could still claim legitimate rule over america. think before you say sh*t.

Ok then you tell me one good reason why Taiwan should declare independence genius?

You tell me one good reason why the US should be involved.

You tell me one good reason why the US should go to war with another country.

All these things you argued for I already countered.

You basically have no good points except that you just want to go to war. You don't even think about the consequences of the US going to war. So you try thinking before YOU say sh*t.

You don't even have the slightest idea of what another war would do to the US. You think because we're at war right now and everything seems fine that everything will stay fine?

You'll see what's coming to you in a few years. So you better start thinking for your future.

If there ever was another war, especially with China, which I know 100% for sure there won't be (The US does not have the funds and other countries would are not willing to back the US up for this silly reason), then God help us all. Everyone is gonna get a hurt real bad...

 

[0roo0roo]

it is independent in all ways except the open declaration for reasons of diplomacy.

it was a civil war. a civil war the communist party failed to win completely. the kmt retreated to taiwan and has been there for 50 years. how the f*ck does china still have a claim on taiwan? there has to be a statute of limitations on such things. china did not win taiwan. it has no claim on taiwan. its behaving simply as a big bully. its as if the confederacy held hawaii and the union just gave up. or if the confederacy has won and the union fled to cuba. after a reasonable period you've lost your right to change the outcome. just as the british lost their right over america even though we were once british. especially when your reasons for war are completely invalid. china isn't fighting to free anyone, it threatens to oppress another people under its communist regeim. don't let nationalism or chinese pride get in the way of reason. supporting the oppressive communist regeim does nothing good for the chinese people.

and the lesson of history is you don't appease vile authoritarian expansionist aggressive regiems in any way. it opens the door and it invites disaster. so think before you say sh*t indeed.

 

[Pepsei]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

Yes you're correct, back then Taiwan was suppose to be the one China and not the mainland.

So, I don't see a problem if Taiwan tells the mainland that they can be China and Taiwan will be Taiwan. that's still a one China policy.

Why shouldn't US be involved if China keeps telling US "we'll nuke you if you do this over this tiny island" it's like China is provoking US on purpose to get involved with Taiwan.

And if history serves, US doesn't need a good reason to get involve, in fact, we all know that China have WMD, and also, we'll be bringing Democracy to people of Taiwan and maybe China too.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

It's been happening for quite a long time that's why. The thing is, all three sides know that there won't be any casualties. Taiwan is going to comply with China and remain part of China. The US won't and can't really do anything about it. China knows that destroying all of Taiwan will make the country useless to them. China wants Taiwan for economic reasons. US doesn't want China to become too powerful. China and Taiwan will strike a deal where both will be neutral. Taiwan just thinks they can live without the help of China. And I believe that they can live without the help of China but it's just nonsense because they're Chinese. Politics and government shouldn't divide a nation. If Taiwan started speaking a language that was not a dialect of Chinese and their writing changed to a point where it was different from Chinese, then there would be a reason for a country to declare independence. However just for the sake of thinking they have a democracy is no reason them to declare independence. It is just nonsense.

sorry, race based nationhood is simply invalid as an arguement. just don't go there. there are countries are of the "same race" but it doesn't mean they have to be the same country. under that kind of thinking england could still claim legitimate rule over america. think before you say sh*t.

Ok then you tell me one good reason why Taiwan should declare independence genius?

You tell me one good reason why the US should be involved.

You tell me one good reason why the US should go to war with another country.

All these things you argued for I already countered.

You basically have no good points except that you just want to go to war. You don't even think about the consequences of the US going to war. So you try thinking before YOU say sh*t.
You don't even have the slightest idea of what another war would do to the US. You think because we're at war right now and everything seems fine that everything will stay fine?

You'll see what's coming to you in a few years. So you better start thinking for your future.

If there ever was another war, especially with China, which I know 100% for sure there won't be (The US does not have the funds and other countries would are not willing to back the US up for this silly reason), then God help us all. Everyone is gonna get a hurt real bad...

this is the American IGNORANCE and ARROGANCE that I refered to ealier, Oroo Oroo you are basically saying that the US should stand up to china regardless of the consequences, have you any idea what a full scale nuclear attack would do to south east asia, I don't think you do and I don't think that the bulk of the US public has either.
The US would start WW3, kill billions and the respond.."how were we to know that our weapons would be so destructive" the US knows that china's nuclear weapons would have a very limited affect which would be mainly isolated to the US mainland. But it seems that the US once agian just doesn't give a sh*t about anybody else, bar it's own agenda

 

[Pepsei]

remember the cold war with the Soviets?

We were prepare to go to WWIII with them no? this would be like back then, except there are more chinese soldiers to kill with our nukes.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

its as if the union had won a few states in the civil war, pushed the confederacy to say...texas and stopped. a truce. after 50 years the union could not claim to still have the right to come back and take over.

as for japan. i'll let japan off the hook until the chinese acknowledge that mao was a true monster. 30 million dead. he beats everyone in terms of horror and murder. and of his own no less. i'm chinese so don't assume i know nothing about japanese history, i've been to the nanking rememberence display when it came to san fran.

just wait till the new book about mao comes out. from reviews i've seen it has mao scheming with the japanese in his struggle for power. he is complicit. its based on newly released soviet documents. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679422714/qid=1121856214/

and the fact is today japan is free. and to this day china is not, and attrocities and oppression continue.

I'm Chinese too but that's irrelevant.

What you just said doesn't change the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. In addition, what you just said confirmed my point. It didn't say which China was the one China but that still doesn't deviate the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. Which is why it is pushing for independence.

Who knows at that time the US may not have realized how powerful would become today. It was a pretty long time ago. But now the US is deviating from that decision. Why? Because China's growing too powerful.

Mao killing 30 million Chinese does not give the excuse of Japanese coming over to China and killing millions more and in addition letting the Japanese get away with this. I don't get how your logic works. The fact is, the Japanese had NO RIGHT to kill and torture the millions of Chinese whatsoever no matter what. How do you even correlate Mao and Japanese?

As far as I know, the Japanese got money from the US to rebuilt, and some people are getting reparations. China seems to have gotten nothing. The Japanese didn't apologize nor did they give out reparations.

What atrocities and oppression are you talking about? Are you referring to censorship? If you don't think that happens in the US you're mistaken. Maybe the degree is not as bad but hey that's why they're Communist and it may be one of the reasons why China is growing.

 

[0roo0roo]

arrogance is standing up to aggressive authoritarian regiems?

SO BE IT!!!

the lessons of history have been lost to you. the soviets were limited by the very fact that we made it damn clear we were serious about using our nukes. it was the only thing limiting their actions. the lessons of hitler and ww2 are that the appeasement of authoritarian regiems invites their aggression. they will dare to call your bluff if you don't stand up and make damn sure its clearly serious. only standing up to nuclear black mail will prevent nuclear war. its just how it is. you do not invite the slightest impression they will get away with it, or they will try.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: Borealis316
Wipe em from the planet for all I care. Only thing they have that we'd be missing are sweatshops.

Such a naive statement. You know that your standard of living relies very heavily on the existance of China right? It's an indirect relationship. Let me lay it out for you...

Direct: I wonder how much "Made in China" products you own. It could be a lot, it could be none. Doesn't matter.

Indirect: I wonder how many other things you buy or own that are not "Made in China" so relatively cheap. Answer: Competition from "Made in China" goods.

I bet most, if not all, of your computer parts are made in China. Can you afford a $5,000 computer? That's what I thought. China disappears or ceases to do business with the US we all lose. That is why the US will not go to war with China. It's called business. It's called economy.

Actually, its almost all made in Taiwan, not China.

Actually it may say that but Taiwan is still considered to be part of China 🙂

And even so I beg to differ. More things are made in China than in Taiwan. I don't think you realize it. I could be mistaken but I could have sworn, 90% of the Chinese made goods at any regular store say "Made in Taiwan." Ok 90% may be exaggerating, but I know there's more. Of course I really can't compare because I have no idea what of stuff comes from Taiwan alone and what comes from China.

If you can show me some evidence that the US does more business with Taiwan than China then I stand corrected but I'm pretty sure the US has bigger trade with China. That "Made in China" statement was just an example. I don't mean literally everything that has "Made in China" sticker on it. I was trying to illustrate a simple point and let people expand upon that. It can go into other imports such as agriculture.

I would argue that the main reason China even wants Taiwan is its enormous tech boom. Taiwan has a strong economy based on electronics, virtually every PC out there has a number of parts in it from Taiwan.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

its as if the union had won a few states in the civil war, pushed the confederacy to say...texas and stopped. a truce. after 50 years the union could not claim to still have the right to come back and take over.

as for japan. i'll let japan off the hook until the chinese acknowledge that mao was a true monster. 30 million dead. he beats everyone in terms of horror and murder. and of his own no less. i'm chinese so don't assume i know nothing about japanese history, i've been to the nanking rememberence display when it came to san fran.

just wait till the new book about mao comes out. from reviews i've seen it has mao scheming with the japanese in his struggle for power. he is complicit. its based on newly released soviet documents. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679422714/qid=1121856214/

and the fact is today japan is free. and to this day china is not, and attrocities and oppression continue.

I'm Chinese too but that's irrelevant.

What you just said doesn't change the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. In addition, what you just said confirmed my point. It didn't say which China was the one China but that still doesn't deviate the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. Which is why it is pushing for independence.

Who knows at that time the US may not have realized how powerful would become today. It was a pretty long time ago. But now the US is deviating from that decision. Why? Because China's growing too powerful.

Mao killing 30 million Chinese does not give the excuse of Japanese coming over to China and killing millions more and in addition letting the Japanese get away with this. I don't get how your logic works. The fact is, the Japanese had NO RIGHT to kill and torture the millions of Chinese whatsoever no matter what. How do you even correlate Mao and Japanese?

As far as I know, the Japanese got money from the US to rebuilt, and some people are getting reparations. China seems to have gotten nothing. The Japanese didn't apologize nor did they give out reparations.

What atrocities and oppression are you talking about? Are you referring to censorship? If you don't think that happens in the US you're mistaken. Maybe the degree is not as bad but hey that's why they're Communist and it may be one of the reasons why China is growing.

sorry, you have no basis for saying it is part of china, so don't try to declare it as a fact. you've already proven yourself to be silly by declaring your racist race based nationhood theory.

as for mao, its simply the fact that china is unwilling to admit to its own FAR WORSE crimes against its own people first that makes its constant demands about japan suspect. tiananmen square? oh....erased from the textbooks.... 3million tibetans dead? oh please ignore it...supporting a north korean regiem that starves 1 million of its people and murders and incarcerates 2 million more in gulags? oh, please ignore it again, its for the convenience of china, a nice buffer against democracy.

its called hipocrisy, and it shouldn't be appeased either. in japan they are free to learn about anything they want with free media/press. in china there is no such thing. so don't put them on the same ground when you judge.

and human rights in china? are you kidding? go look it up. not to mention authoritarian regiems are the very best at hiding their attrocities. you won't find the chinese abu garib in china, because there is no free press to report it, no one could speak out without being suppressed. and so it continues.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: Pepsei

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

Yes you're correct, back then Taiwan was suppose to be the one China and not the mainland.

So, I don't see a problem if Taiwan tells the mainland that they can be China and Taiwan will be Taiwan. that's still a one China policy.

Why shouldn't US be involved if China keeps telling US "we'll nuke you if you do this over this tiny island" it's like China is provoking US on purpose to get involved with Taiwan.

And if history serves, US doesn't need a good reason to get involve, in fact, we all know that China have WMD, and also, we'll be bringing Democracy to people of Taiwan and maybe China too.

I think you twisted and butchered what they really said. US got involved in something they have no real reason to. Just like Iraq. I support the troops, the people themselves but that does not mean that I support the cause.

I don't get your logic of why US doesn't need a good reason to get involved. So doesn't that mean they shouldn't get involved? You do realize that China isn't the only one who has WMD right? *cough US cough*

LOL Why would you bring democracy to Taiwan when it already IS a democracy 😕 You make it sound like we are the democratic superheroes.

 

[Stumps]

I am grateful for china's poor human rights, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have a wonderful 5 year old adopted baby sister, who is chinese.
I'm not saying that china is right to do what it does to it's people, far from it, but the fact remains that my family and myself have benifited from this and are blessed to have such a wonderful person as a member of our family.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: Pepsei

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

Yes you're correct, back then Taiwan was suppose to be the one China and not the mainland.

So, I don't see a problem if Taiwan tells the mainland that they can be China and Taiwan will be Taiwan. that's still a one China policy.

Why shouldn't US be involved if China keeps telling US "we'll nuke you if you do this over this tiny island" it's like China is provoking US on purpose to get involved with Taiwan.

And if history serves, US doesn't need a good reason to get involve, in fact, we all know that China have WMD, and also, we'll be bringing Democracy to people of Taiwan and maybe China too.

I think you twisted and butchered what they really said. US got involved in something they have no real reason to. Just like Iraq. I support the troops, the people themselves but that does not mean that I support the cause.

I don't get your logic of why US doesn't need a good reason to get involved. So doesn't that mean they shouldn't get involved? You do realize that China isn't the only one who has WMD right? *cough US cough*

LOL Why would you bring democracy to Taiwan when it already IS a democracy 😕 You make it sound like we are the democratic superheroes.

simple fact is you are legitimizing chinas absurd position of claiming victory where there was none. they didn't take over taiwan 50 years ago, they just gave up. they don't have the right to come back and basically reinvade, to effectively restart a civil war. its an absurd position to defend. backing a communist regiem against a democracy no less. have you no shame? maybe you should renounce your american citizenship and go to china. you obviously don't stand for our values.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Stumps
I am grateful for china's poor human rights, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have a wonderful 5 year old adopted baby sister, who is chinese.
I'm not saying that china is right to do what it does to it's people, far from it, but the fact remains that my family and myself have benifited from this and are blessed to have such a wonderful person as a member of our family.

lol that always makes me laugh..their creation of a gender imbalance. talk about screwing yourself over.

 

[Pocatello]

Most Chinese don't want a war, they want to enjoy the economic boom they are having. The Chinese military is worrying that the Chinese people are more interest in spending their time at the shopping mall rather than being good communists, so they are sabre rattling a little bit, to fuel the nationalistic fire.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

its as if the union had won a few states in the civil war, pushed the confederacy to say...texas and stopped. a truce. after 50 years the union could not claim to still have the right to come back and take over.

as for japan. i'll let japan off the hook until the chinese acknowledge that mao was a true monster. 30 million dead. he beats everyone in terms of horror and murder. and of his own no less. i'm chinese so don't assume i know nothing about japanese history, i've been to the nanking rememberence display when it came to san fran.

just wait till the new book about mao comes out. from reviews i've seen it has mao scheming with the japanese in his struggle for power. he is complicit. its based on newly released soviet documents. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679422714/qid=1121856214/

and the fact is today japan is free. and to this day china is not, and attrocities and oppression continue.

I'm Chinese too but that's irrelevant.

What you just said doesn't change the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. In addition, what you just said confirmed my point. It didn't say which China was the one China but that still doesn't deviate the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. Which is why it is pushing for independence.

Who knows at that time the US may not have realized how powerful would become today. It was a pretty long time ago. But now the US is deviating from that decision. Why? Because China's growing too powerful.

Mao killing 30 million Chinese does not give the excuse of Japanese coming over to China and killing millions more and in addition letting the Japanese get away with this. I don't get how your logic works. The fact is, the Japanese had NO RIGHT to kill and torture the millions of Chinese whatsoever no matter what. How do you even correlate Mao and Japanese?

As far as I know, the Japanese got money from the US to rebuilt, and some people are getting reparations. China seems to have gotten nothing. The Japanese didn't apologize nor did they give out reparations.

What atrocities and oppression are you talking about? Are you referring to censorship? If you don't think that happens in the US you're mistaken. Maybe the degree is not as bad but hey that's why they're Communist and it may be one of the reasons why China is growing.

sorry, you have no basis for saying it is part of china, so don't try to declare it as a fact. you've already proven yourself to be silly by declaring your racist race based nationhood theory.

as for mao, its simply the fact that china is unwilling to admit to its own FAR WORSE crimes against its own people first that makes its constant demands about japan suspect. tiananmen square? oh....erased from the textbooks.... 3million tibetans dead? oh please ignore it...supporting a north korean regiem that starves 1 million of its people and murders and incarcerates 2 million more in gulags? oh, please ignore it again, its for the convenience of china, a nice buffer against democracy.

its called hipocrisy, and it shouldn't be appeased either. in japan they are free to learn about anything they want with free media/press. in china there is no such thing. so don't put them on the same ground when you judge.

and human rights in china? are you kidding? go look it up. not to mention authoritarian regiems are the very best at hiding their attrocities. you won't find the chinese abu garib in china, because there is no free press to report it, no one could speak out without being suppressed. and so it continues.

You still have not stated a good reason why the US should be involved in these matters. If you did then it was so weak that I missed it. Do you even care what happens to the US? You're blinded by the superiority and ego of the US. You have no idea what would happen if we went to war. That is why you never address any of the future issues. You never think ahead. You should for once. Then you realize that we're already going to be in big trouble. And going to war with China is even worse. Your ignorance is astounding.

What does Mao have to do with Japanese soldiers coming into China and killing and torturing Chinese again?

What are you trying to prove? You're trying to mix two ideas that can't be mixed. Your logic doesn't work. You think because of one man's actions (I say one man and not nation because YOU keep referring to Mao) that the Japanese should just cover it up and lie about why they came over to China? Why they are the victims? I don't get it. Again, I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself to get it into your head but Mao has nothing to do with the Japanese coming over to China and killing and torturing millions.

So Japan gets to learn whatever they want, even if it's a lie perpetuated by the government? You do realize that the Japanese are covering it up and changing the story right? You think that by learning whatever they want is always a good thing?

I would agree with you if it was learning what really happened but that's not what they're doing. Sure the people are learning whatever they want but they are learning whatever the Japanese government wants them to. That is why those coverups and the twists in the stories are allowed to go uncensored.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: Pepsei

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

Yes you're correct, back then Taiwan was suppose to be the one China and not the mainland.

So, I don't see a problem if Taiwan tells the mainland that they can be China and Taiwan will be Taiwan. that's still a one China policy.

Why shouldn't US be involved if China keeps telling US "we'll nuke you if you do this over this tiny island" it's like China is provoking US on purpose to get involved with Taiwan.

And if history serves, US doesn't need a good reason to get involve, in fact, we all know that China have WMD, and also, we'll be bringing Democracy to people of Taiwan and maybe China too.

I think you twisted and butchered what they really said. US got involved in something they have no real reason to. Just like Iraq. I support the troops, the people themselves but that does not mean that I support the cause.

I don't get your logic of why US doesn't need a good reason to get involved. So doesn't that mean they shouldn't get involved? You do realize that China isn't the only one who has WMD right? *cough US cough*

LOL Why would you bring democracy to Taiwan when it already IS a democracy 😕 You make it sound like we are the democratic superheroes.

simple fact is you are legitimizing chinas absurd position of claiming victory where there was none. they didn't take over taiwan 50 years ago, they just gave up. they don't have the right to come back and basically reinvade, to effectively restart a civil war. its an absurd position to defend. backing a communist regiem against a democracy no less. have you no shame? maybe you should renounce your american citizenship and go to china. you obviously don't stand for our values.

Oh right as if YOU stand for every decision the government makes.

Again your logic just astounds me. Just because I am backing up a communist country does not mean I am supportive of communism. I never ONCE said that I supported communism. I may support a communist country and some issues and I may disagree at others. Maybe you should renounce your American citizenship as you have no idea what it's like to form an opinion. My whole point is that there is no real good reason for the US to be involved in a war with China. You cannot provide any except what you FEEL (your emotions) as excuses.

Have you no shame for not having your own opinions? Are you a mindless drone? Have you been brainwashed?

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: Borealis316
Wipe em from the planet for all I care. Only thing they have that we'd be missing are sweatshops.

Such a naive statement. You know that your standard of living relies very heavily on the existance of China right? It's an indirect relationship. Let me lay it out for you...

Direct: I wonder how much "Made in China" products you own. It could be a lot, it could be none. Doesn't matter.

Indirect: I wonder how many other things you buy or own that are not "Made in China" so relatively cheap. Answer: Competition from "Made in China" goods.

I bet most, if not all, of your computer parts are made in China. Can you afford a $5,000 computer? That's what I thought. China disappears or ceases to do business with the US we all lose. That is why the US will not go to war with China. It's called business. It's called economy.

Actually, its almost all made in Taiwan, not China.

Actually it may say that but Taiwan is still considered to be part of China 🙂

And even so I beg to differ. More things are made in China than in Taiwan. I don't think you realize it. I could be mistaken but I could have sworn, 90% of the Chinese made goods at any regular store say "Made in Taiwan." Ok 90% may be exaggerating, but I know there's more. Of course I really can't compare because I have no idea what of stuff comes from Taiwan alone and what comes from China.

If you can show me some evidence that the US does more business with Taiwan than China then I stand corrected but I'm pretty sure the US has bigger trade with China. That "Made in China" statement was just an example. I don't mean literally everything that has "Made in China" sticker on it. I was trying to illustrate a simple point and let people expand upon that. It can go into other imports such as agriculture.

I would argue that the main reason China even wants Taiwan is its enormous tech boom. Taiwan has a strong economy based on electronics, virtually every PC out there has a number of parts in it from Taiwan.

I agree on the electronics part but the number of non-electronic goods from China far exceed the number of electronic goods from Taiwan if I am not mistaken but correct me if I'm wrong.