Report: China sends nuke warning to U.S. over Taiwan

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

its as if the union had won a few states in the civil war, pushed the confederacy to say...texas and stopped. a truce. after 50 years the union could not claim to still have the right to come back and take over.

as for japan. i'll let japan off the hook until the chinese acknowledge that mao was a true monster. 30 million dead. he beats everyone in terms of horror and murder. and of his own no less. i'm chinese so don't assume i know nothing about japanese history, i've been to the nanking rememberence display when it came to san fran.

just wait till the new book about mao comes out. from reviews i've seen it has mao scheming with the japanese in his struggle for power. he is complicit. its based on newly released soviet documents. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679422714/qid=1121856214/

and the fact is today japan is free. and to this day china is not, and attrocities and oppression continue.

I'm Chinese too but that's irrelevant.

What you just said doesn't change the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. In addition, what you just said confirmed my point. It didn't say which China was the one China but that still doesn't deviate the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. Which is why it is pushing for independence.

Who knows at that time the US may not have realized how powerful would become today. It was a pretty long time ago. But now the US is deviating from that decision. Why? Because China's growing too powerful.

Mao killing 30 million Chinese does not give the excuse of Japanese coming over to China and killing millions more and in addition letting the Japanese get away with this. I don't get how your logic works. The fact is, the Japanese had NO RIGHT to kill and torture the millions of Chinese whatsoever no matter what. How do you even correlate Mao and Japanese?

As far as I know, the Japanese got money from the US to rebuilt, and some people are getting reparations. China seems to have gotten nothing. The Japanese didn't apologize nor did they give out reparations.

What atrocities and oppression are you talking about? Are you referring to censorship? If you don't think that happens in the US you're mistaken. Maybe the degree is not as bad but hey that's why they're Communist and it may be one of the reasons why China is growing.

sorry, you have no basis for saying it is part of china, so don't try to declare it as a fact. you've already proven yourself to be silly by declaring your racist race based nationhood theory.

as for mao, its simply the fact that china is unwilling to admit to its own FAR WORSE crimes against its own people first that makes its constant demands about japan suspect. tiananmen square? oh....erased from the textbooks.... 3million tibetans dead? oh please ignore it...supporting a north korean regiem that starves 1 million of its people and murders and incarcerates 2 million more in gulags? oh, please ignore it again, its for the convenience of china, a nice buffer against democracy.

its called hipocrisy, and it shouldn't be appeased either. in japan they are free to learn about anything they want with free media/press. in china there is no such thing. so don't put them on the same ground when you judge.

and human rights in china? are you kidding? go look it up. not to mention authoritarian regiems are the very best at hiding their attrocities. you won't find the chinese abu garib in china, because there is no free press to report it, no one could speak out without being suppressed. and so it continues.

You still have not stated a good reason why the US should be involved in these matters. If you did then it was so weak that I missed it. Do you even care what happens to the US? You're blinded by the superiority and ego of the US. You have no idea what would happen if we went to war. That is why you never address any of the future issues. You never think ahead. You should for once. Then you realize that we're already going to be in big trouble. And going to war with China is even worse. Your ignorance is astounding.

What does Mao have to do with Japanese soldiers coming into China and killing and torturing Chinese again?

What are you trying to prove? You're trying to mix two ideas that can't be mixed. Your logic doesn't work. You think because of one man's actions (I say one man and not nation because YOU keep referring to Mao) that the Japanese should just cover it up and lie about why they came over to China? Why they are the victims? I don't get it. Again, I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself to get it into your head but Mao has nothing to do with the Japanese coming over to China and killing and torturing millions.

So Japan gets to learn whatever they want, even if it's a lie perpetuated by the government? You do realize that the Japanese are covering it up and changing the story right? You think that by learning whatever they want is always a good thing?

I would agree with you if it was learning what really happened but that's not what they're doing. Sure the people are learning whatever they want but they are learning whatever the Japanese government wants them to. That is why those coverups and the twists in the stories are allowed to go uncensored.

i've already stated it time and time again. the lessons of history already tell you this as i've already told you. standing up to dictatorial regiems PREVENTS WAR. if they think you are weak and uncommited. they will take the chance and go to war. its simple as that. deterence is based on the very REAL threat, not a wobbly one.

and stop making this about japan. you are wasting your time defending a bad position. heres a review of the book, its already released in the uk it seems
http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/biography/0,6121,1498718,00.html

simple fact is chinas crimes against its own people are more vast, and continue to this day. its yelling and screaming about japan reak of hipocrisy. if you can't see that, you are so blinded by chinese nationalism nothing can help you. and thats the problem with many mainland chinese, and its why they had those absurd riots oh so recently.

its just amazing you are so horrified by the attrocities of the japanese when they were ruled by tyrants, yet support china being a nuclear blackmailing bully TODAY, not some time in the past.or during ww2. you defend china's attroctious behavior today, you defend their tyranical authoritarian regiem. you are an apologist for crimes blinded by nationalism. have you no shame?

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it is an independent country. the us agreed to the bullsh*t diplomatic speak of one china. why? because it made china happy. why did they accept? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T SAY WHICH CHINA WAS THE ONE CHINA!! and that lets them gloss over the entire problem..and reality that taiwan is an independent nation.

its as if the union had won a few states in the civil war, pushed the confederacy to say...texas and stopped. a truce. after 50 years the union could not claim to still have the right to come back and take over.

as for japan. i'll let japan off the hook until the chinese acknowledge that mao was a true monster. 30 million dead. he beats everyone in terms of horror and murder. and of his own no less. i'm chinese so don't assume i know nothing about japanese history, i've been to the nanking rememberence display when it came to san fran.

just wait till the new book about mao comes out. from reviews i've seen it has mao scheming with the japanese in his struggle for power. he is complicit. its based on newly released soviet documents. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679422714/qid=1121856214/

and the fact is today japan is free. and to this day china is not, and attrocities and oppression continue.

I'm Chinese too but that's irrelevant.

What you just said doesn't change the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. In addition, what you just said confirmed my point. It didn't say which China was the one China but that still doesn't deviate the fact that Taiwan is still part of China. Which is why it is pushing for independence.

Who knows at that time the US may not have realized how powerful would become today. It was a pretty long time ago. But now the US is deviating from that decision. Why? Because China's growing too powerful.

Mao killing 30 million Chinese does not give the excuse of Japanese coming over to China and killing millions more and in addition letting the Japanese get away with this. I don't get how your logic works. The fact is, the Japanese had NO RIGHT to kill and torture the millions of Chinese whatsoever no matter what. How do you even correlate Mao and Japanese?

As far as I know, the Japanese got money from the US to rebuilt, and some people are getting reparations. China seems to have gotten nothing. The Japanese didn't apologize nor did they give out reparations.

What atrocities and oppression are you talking about? Are you referring to censorship? If you don't think that happens in the US you're mistaken. Maybe the degree is not as bad but hey that's why they're Communist and it may be one of the reasons why China is growing.

sorry, you have no basis for saying it is part of china, so don't try to declare it as a fact. you've already proven yourself to be silly by declaring your racist race based nationhood theory.

as for mao, its simply the fact that china is unwilling to admit to its own FAR WORSE crimes against its own people first that makes its constant demands about japan suspect. tiananmen square? oh....erased from the textbooks.... 3million tibetans dead? oh please ignore it...supporting a north korean regiem that starves 1 million of its people and murders and incarcerates 2 million more in gulags? oh, please ignore it again, its for the convenience of china, a nice buffer against democracy.

its called hipocrisy, and it shouldn't be appeased either. in japan they are free to learn about anything they want with free media/press. in china there is no such thing. so don't put them on the same ground when you judge.

and human rights in china? are you kidding? go look it up. not to mention authoritarian regiems are the very best at hiding their attrocities. you won't find the chinese abu garib in china, because there is no free press to report it, no one could speak out without being suppressed. and so it continues.

You still have not stated a good reason why the US should be involved in these matters. If you did then it was so weak that I missed it. Do you even care what happens to the US? You're blinded by the superiority and ego of the US. You have no idea what would happen if we went to war. That is why you never address any of the future issues. You never think ahead. You should for once. Then you realize that we're already going to be in big trouble. And going to war with China is even worse. Your ignorance is astounding.

What does Mao have to do with Japanese soldiers coming into China and killing and torturing Chinese again?

What are you trying to prove? You're trying to mix two ideas that can't be mixed. Your logic doesn't work. You think because of one man's actions (I say one man and not nation because YOU keep referring to Mao) that the Japanese should just cover it up and lie about why they came over to China? Why they are the victims? I don't get it. Again, I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself to get it into your head but Mao has nothing to do with the Japanese coming over to China and killing and torturing millions.

So Japan gets to learn whatever they want, even if it's a lie perpetuated by the government? You do realize that the Japanese are covering it up and changing the story right? You think that by learning whatever they want is always a good thing?

I would agree with you if it was learning what really happened but that's not what they're doing. Sure the people are learning whatever they want but they are learning whatever the Japanese government wants them to. That is why those coverups and the twists in the stories are allowed to go uncensored.

i've already stated it time and time again. the lessons of history already tell you this as i've already told you. standing up to dictatorial regiems PREVENTS WAR. if they think you are weak and uncommited. they will take the chance and go to war. its simple as that. deterence is based on the very REAL threat, not a wobbly one.

and stop making this about japan. you are wasting your time defending a bad position. heres a review of the book, its already released in the uk it seems
http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/biography/0,6121,1498718,00.html

simple fact is chinas crimes against its own people are more vast, and continue to this day. its yelling and screaming about japan reak of hipocrisy. if you can't see that, you are so blinded by chinese nationalism nothing can help you. and thats the problem with many mainland chinese, and its why they had those absurd riots oh so recently.

All you think about is the real threat of war with no repercussions of our own country, the US. As I've said again, the US cannot AFFORD to have another real war. It would literally destroy the nation. You can't ever seem to see beyond that issue. You think that the US can keep on threatening everyone and when someone does call their bluff, you think we'll all still be living the way we do now? You're sadly mistaken. You do realize that the US has a deficit right? You do realize that we already can't afford the war in Iraq and it's bankrupting our country right? You do realize that the US is borrowing sh*tloads of money from many countries including China right? You do realize that it can't simply be paid off and social security can't simply be fixed easily as you stated earlier right? You do realize that money doesn't grow on trees right? You do realize that anymore spending that our great great grandchilren are going to be paying taxes up to their necks without having any money in their pockets to pay taxes with right? Of course my last rhetorical question is just speculation but it's not farfetched. Where else should we get more money from? Other countries? You do realize that China may not be the only ones the US may have to face right? North Korea, Russia, and other countries who might be affected by the war may back China up. Point is, don't make threats on which you cannot back. Don't make stupid threats. Don't make threats that would reign disaster for half the world. ............

Again, Mao has nothing to do with Japan. It seems you can't realize that either. I agree that his atrocities are greater but that has NOTHING to do with Japan coming over to China and killing and torturing millions. You do realize that Mao is not Japanese right?

The issues should be solved one at a time. Again Mao has no connection with the Japanese coming over and killing millions and Mao is not Japanese.

 

[0roo0roo]

no, it seems mao welcomed the japanese invasion.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0224071262/202-3083553-8616664

and as said, the reprocusions are very bad if we don't stand up to tyranical regiems. it is historys lesson. i'm sorry your chinese nationalism or brainwashing, or simply miguided pride has blinded you to this.

and sorry, russia wouldn't fight for china. you are ignorant to even claim this.

and communist regiems should not be held to the same level of regard as democracies when it comes to historical grievances. the simple fact is they continue it today ..every day in china. it doesnt happen in japan. its simple hipocrisy for china to whine about text books when its own are filled with propanganda, when its citizens have no access to free information unlike japanese. until it resolves its faults its grievance should rightly be ignored or we legitimize its position of fundamental hipocrisy.

 

[Stumps]

You can't ever seem to see beyond that issue. You think that the US can keep on threatening everyone and when someone does call their bluff, you think we'll all still be living the way we do now? You're sadly mistaken.

Oroo...this is the point, what if china calls the US's bluff? the US WOULD have no choice but use Nukes simply because of EGO.
the US couldn't bare to lose face, especially to china and this is the Arrogance of the American people. instead of trying to find another solution it will just launch it's nukes at china and doom the rest of us to a slow miserable death.
This is why the US shouldn't use it's nukes as a deterant, because one day the bluff will be called.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Stumps


You can't ever seem to see beyond that issue. You think that the US can keep on threatening everyone and when someone does call their bluff, you think we'll all still be living the way we do now? You're sadly mistaken.

Oroo...this is the point, what if china calls the US's bluff? the US WOULD have no choice but use Nukes simply because of EGO.
the US couldn't bare to lose face, especially to china and this is the Arrogance of the American people. instead of trying to find another solution it just launch it's nukes at china and doom the rest of to a slow miserable death.
This is why the US shouldn't use it's nukes as a deterant, because one day the bluff will be called.

it worked during the cold war. the reasoning is chinas leaders are fundamentally rational even if they act like complete idiots at times. they will not risk annihilation for taiwan.

and its not arrogance. it is reality. standing up to the soviets required the very real threat of total annihilation. it is the reality of nuclear powers. if we had not adopted this position the situation would be far worse as they would have had free reign to do whatever they pleased, under the protection of their nuclear blackmail. they could have invaded the rest of germany and said hey..what are you gonna do about it huh? nuke us? we know you aren't serious. then france..then england..and so on. until inevitable disaster.

and this is the reason china must be called out on their callous and casual use of nuclear threats that frankly escalate the danger for all. it is unacceptable in the modern world. and the faster other nations call them on it, the faster they will see it is not the way to do business. standing down only legitimizes their behavior. it doesn't lessen it at all.

 

[Pepsei]

I think you twisted and butchered what they really said. US got involved in something they have no real reason to. Just like Iraq. I support the troops, the people themselves but that does not mean that I support the cause.

I don't get your logic of why US doesn't need a good reason to get involved. So doesn't that mean they shouldn't get involved? You do realize that China isn't the only one who has WMD right? *cough US cough*

LOL Why would you bring democracy to Taiwan when it already IS a democracy You make it sound like we are the democratic superheroes.

right, WMD was an excuse used to invade another country, so that's why i said US doesn't need a good reason. but to be honest, U.S should support Taiwan because Taiwan, aka ROC as been an ally since WWII. US will continue this support just like the support for Israel.

A good reason NOT to support China is their lame attempt to threaten US with nukes.

Yes, Taiwan is already a democracy, so why should we support commies over a democracy? (I was just being facetious when I said bringing democracy to Taiwan, because not supporting Taiwan would mean taking away democracy in Taiwan)

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Anyone know how many bonds China has bought with the surplus (trade deficit to us) they have. If they pull their money out of bonds, kiss the US economy good bye and USA = 3rd world country.

 

[0roo0roo]

well it goes both ways with the economic interdependence. that is the 2nd reason why their threats are absurd, and why war is not inevitable. and its why they should be called on casual threats of nuclear blackmail.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
no, it seems mao welcomed the japanese invasion.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0224071262/202-3083553-8616664

and as said, the reprocusions are very bad if we don't stand up to tyranical regiems. it is historys lesson. i'm sorry your chinese nationalism or brainwashing, or simply miguided pride has blinded you to this.

and sorry, russia wouldn't fight for china. you are ignorant to even claim this.

and communist regiems should not be held to the same level of regard as democracies when it comes to historical grievances. the simple fact is they continue it today ..every day in china. it doesnt happen in japan. its simple hipocrisy for china to whine about text books when its own are filled with propanganda, when its citizens have no access to free information unlike japanese. until it resolves its faults its grievance should rightly be ignored or we legitimize its position of fundamental hipocrisy.

Well I guess tyranical regimes are a bad thing for China since it's doing so well right now. Maybe not some of the individuals of that country but the country as a whole is doing well. I don't support the human rights policies they have there but I am not in a position to say what's best for their country. I don't think democracy is always the answer or the best solution to every country. That's all and it just seems that the US is trying to instill that idea or belief.

Yes and I'm sure the millions who got tortured and killed welcomed the Japanese as well:roll:It doesn't matter of Mao welcomed the Japanese invasion, there is no connection between Mao and the Japanese coming over and killing and torturing millions.

If I am as ignorant as claiming that Russia would fight for China then you are as ignorant for even claiming the US would fight for Taiwan. The thing is, the US already knows the points I made above. They won't go into war. They can't afford to.

You make it sound like just because China is twisting facts and information in their books, it allows the Japanese the right to do it. The thing is, both of them shouldn't do it. End of story.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Stumps


You can't ever seem to see beyond that issue. You think that the US can keep on threatening everyone and when someone does call their bluff, you think we'll all still be living the way we do now? You're sadly mistaken.

Oroo...this is the point, what if china calls the US's bluff? the US WOULD have no choice but use Nukes simply because of EGO.
the US couldn't bare to lose face, especially to china and this is the Arrogance of the American people. instead of trying to find another solution it just launch it's nukes at china and doom the rest of to a slow miserable death.
This is why the US shouldn't use it's nukes as a deterant, because one day the bluff will be called.

it worked during the cold war. the reasoning is chinas leaders are fundamentally rational even if they act like complete idiots at times. they will not risk annihilation for taiwan.

and its not arrogance. it is reality. standing up to the soviets required the very real threat of total annihilation. it is the reality of nuclear powers. if we had not adopted this position the situation would be far worse as they would have had free reign to do whatever they pleased, under the protection of their nuclear blackmail. they could have invaded the rest of germany and said hey..what are you gonna do about it huh? nuke us? we know you aren't serious. then france..then england..and so on. until inevitable disaster.

and this is the reason china must be called out on their callous and casual use of nuclear threats that frankly escalate the danger for all. it is unacceptable in the modern world. and the faster other nations call them on it, the faster they will see it is not the way to do business. standing down only legitimizes their behavior. it doesn't lessen it at all.

And the US will not risk complete annihilation of the US. You think because it worked during the Cold War that it will always work? Sometimes enough is enough and it just takes one to call another's bluff for the whole world to be in shambles. If you think that the US is going to do that then the US is ignorant and pretentious. However they won't be doing that because they already realize the repercussions, you however do not.

You say that China should be called out on their nuclear threats. How about when the tables turn? When do you think the US will be called out on nuclear threats? The US can't and won't be the only one waving their nukes in the air. Sometimes even the US has to stand down.

 

[0roo0roo]

oh god you are still on mao?

Mao opposed fighting the Japanese despite the urgings of Josef Stalin, and never forgave the commanders of the only two battles against them. During the guerrilla period Mao encouraged the production of opium whose sale greatly swelled his treasury. His policies led to the death of up to a million landlords. He encouraged Kim Il Sung to attack South Korea. His economic policies and contempt for the peasantry led to the world?s greatest famine in 1959-1961, in which at least 37 million people died. He provoked the Cultural Revolution and demanded detailed accounts of the torture and killing of its victims.http://www.howardwfrench.com/archives/2005/07/01/mao_the_unknown_story_a_review/

its about simple hipocrisy. and not judging democracies and communist regiems as if they are somehow on some equal plane. they are not at all. the legitimacy of chinas claims against japan should be recognized when they clean their own house. until then it should be recognized for what it is, political propganda to cover their own crimes, their current crimes. a distraction for their people, a control issue for creating nationalistic sentiment that can be used for political purposes. their outrage coincided with japans bid for a seat on the un security council. don't be a fool.

china twists facts, and outright lies to its people. its people have NO other source of information. japan is a free country, its citizens have free access to all information. don't even try putting the two on equal ground. its part of your problem that you keep trying to do this.

and yes you are ignorant if you pretend that russia has even one thought of fighting for china. news flash!! soviet union gone for years now!! it has no comparable relationship with china that we do with taiwan.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Stumps


You can't ever seem to see beyond that issue. You think that the US can keep on threatening everyone and when someone does call their bluff, you think we'll all still be living the way we do now? You're sadly mistaken.

Oroo...this is the point, what if china calls the US's bluff? the US WOULD have no choice but use Nukes simply because of EGO.
the US couldn't bare to lose face, especially to china and this is the Arrogance of the American people. instead of trying to find another solution it just launch it's nukes at china and doom the rest of to a slow miserable death.
This is why the US shouldn't use it's nukes as a deterant, because one day the bluff will be called.

it worked during the cold war. the reasoning is chinas leaders are fundamentally rational even if they act like complete idiots at times. they will not risk annihilation for taiwan.

and its not arrogance. it is reality. standing up to the soviets required the very real threat of total annihilation. it is the reality of nuclear powers. if we had not adopted this position the situation would be far worse as they would have had free reign to do whatever they pleased, under the protection of their nuclear blackmail. they could have invaded the rest of germany and said hey..what are you gonna do about it huh? nuke us? we know you aren't serious. then france..then england..and so on. until inevitable disaster.

and this is the reason china must be called out on their callous and casual use of nuclear threats that frankly escalate the danger for all. it is unacceptable in the modern world. and the faster other nations call them on it, the faster they will see it is not the way to do business. standing down only legitimizes their behavior. it doesn't lessen it at all.

And the US will not risk complete annihilation of the US. You think because it worked during the Cold War that it will always work? Sometimes enough is enough and it just takes one to call another's bluff for the whole world to be in shambles. If you think that the US is going to do that then the US is ignorant and pretentious. However they won't be doing that because they already realize the repercussions, you however do not.

You say that China should be called out on their nuclear threats. How about when the tables turn? When do you think the US will be called out on nuclear threats? The US can't and won't be the only one waving their nukes in the air. Sometimes even the US has to stand down.

you don't understand the nuclear age? it is the reality. if china wants to destroy the world to oppress democratic countries, it has your support, you understand you communist appeasing twit? people like you only legitimize chinas unsupportable positions. go to china and become a slogan shouting party member. you certainly don't desrve the freedom of the west.

i know this. i'd be locked up in china RIGHT NOW. for what i've typed. you on the other hand would probably recieve honors for being a toady.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: Pepsei

I think you twisted and butchered what they really said. US got involved in something they have no real reason to. Just like Iraq. I support the troops, the people themselves but that does not mean that I support the cause.

I don't get your logic of why US doesn't need a good reason to get involved. So doesn't that mean they shouldn't get involved? You do realize that China isn't the only one who has WMD right? *cough US cough*

LOL Why would you bring democracy to Taiwan when it already IS a democracy You make it sound like we are the democratic superheroes.

right, WMD was an excuse used to invade another country, so that's why i said US doesn't need a good reason. but to be honest, U.S should support Taiwan because Taiwan, aka ROC as been an ally since WWII. US will continue this support just like the support for Israel.

A good reason NOT to support China is their lame attempt to threaten US with nukes.

Yes, Taiwan is already a democracy, so why should we support commies over a democracy? (I was just being facetious when I said bringing democracy to Taiwan, because not supporting Taiwan would mean taking away democracy in Taiwan)

Because sometimes communism may work better for one country than another. I don't know maybe, maybe not. But you shouldn't support democracy for the sole reason the US is democratic and another country is not is all I'm saying.

Good reason not to support China? At this point, as IHateMyJob2004 and I already said, the US already borrowed a lot of money from China. Sad thing is, I think China has the US by the chain, because I'm afraid the US borrowed too much. The future is looking bleak for America's economy.

 

[0roo0roo]

it doesn't matter if communism may or may not work.

the fact is it doesn't justify their threatening free democratic peoples with casual threats of nuclear blackmail.

so really, stop it you defender of tyranny.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: DAWeinG

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Stumps


You can't ever seem to see beyond that issue. You think that the US can keep on threatening everyone and when someone does call their bluff, you think we'll all still be living the way we do now? You're sadly mistaken.

Oroo...this is the point, what if china calls the US's bluff? the US WOULD have no choice but use Nukes simply because of EGO.
the US couldn't bare to lose face, especially to china and this is the Arrogance of the American people. instead of trying to find another solution it just launch it's nukes at china and doom the rest of to a slow miserable death.
This is why the US shouldn't use it's nukes as a deterant, because one day the bluff will be called.

it worked during the cold war. the reasoning is chinas leaders are fundamentally rational even if they act like complete idiots at times. they will not risk annihilation for taiwan.

and its not arrogance. it is reality. standing up to the soviets required the very real threat of total annihilation. it is the reality of nuclear powers. if we had not adopted this position the situation would be far worse as they would have had free reign to do whatever they pleased, under the protection of their nuclear blackmail. they could have invaded the rest of germany and said hey..what are you gonna do about it huh? nuke us? we know you aren't serious. then france..then england..and so on. until inevitable disaster.

and this is the reason china must be called out on their callous and casual use of nuclear threats that frankly escalate the danger for all. it is unacceptable in the modern world. and the faster other nations call them on it, the faster they will see it is not the way to do business. standing down only legitimizes their behavior. it doesn't lessen it at all.

And the US will not risk complete annihilation of the US. You think because it worked during the Cold War that it will always work? Sometimes enough is enough and it just takes one to call another's bluff for the whole world to be in shambles. If you think that the US is going to do that then the US is ignorant and pretentious. However they won't be doing that because they already realize the repercussions, you however do not.

You say that China should be called out on their nuclear threats. How about when the tables turn? When do you think the US will be called out on nuclear threats? The US can't and won't be the only one waving their nukes in the air. Sometimes even the US has to stand down.

you don't understand the nuclear age? it is the reality. if china wants to destroy the world to oppress democratic countries, it has your support, you understand you communist appeasing twit? go to china and become a slogan shouting party member. you certainly don't desrve the freedom of the west.

i know this. i'd be locked up in china RIGHT NOW. for what i've typed. you on the other hand would probably recieve honors for being a toady.

I believe it's you who doesn't understand. You think the US has the right to just wave their nukes and have everyone be afraid. You're not afraid of someone calling their bluff. You don't think. You're narrow-minded and naive. Whoever said that China is out to destroy the world? Where do you get your absurd ideas? You certaintly don't understand the privilege of having the freedom of the west.

Again just because I don't think the US should support Taiwan doesn't mean I'm a Communist or I support Communism. Frankly, I just don't think the US should get involved. You never seem to see beyond that. Oh yeah you get bonus points for calling me names. :roll: Thanks for keeping this discussion mature.

 

[0roo0roo]

destroy the world? i'm not the one making casual threats of nuclear war, china is.

you support tyranny of communists over democracies. you may not be a communist, but you are certainly an immoral spineless appeaser. you are like the man who stands by while a woman gets raped. be proud of yourself.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
it doesn't matter if communism may or may not work.

the fact is it doesn't justify their threatening free democratic peoples with casual threats of nuclear blackmail.

so really, stop it you defender of tyranny.

Isn't that contradictory to what you said earlier about nukes? Hasn't the US been doing that? More bonus points for name calling. Boy you're on a roll here. :roll:

 

[0roo0roo]

idiot, american uses its nuclear deterence to DEFEND FREE PEOPLES FROM OPPRESSION. not as blackmail to oppress democratic peoples, i wonder what has happened to you that you can't see such simple and stark differences. are you from china? atleast you'd have the excuse of being brainwashed by propganda and chinese nationalism. if you are from the west, shame on you.

 

[Stumps]

the truth is, the Nuclear weapon is the last REAL piece of influence it has, it's economy is weaking, it's armed forces are beginning to be spead out and has cease to be effective in the event of a MAJOR threat, it's government has to resort to lies to start wars to help it's ailing economy along.
the US is in it's twilight of being a super power, it must face the facts that nations such as china will overtake the US..sure china will probably fall on it's ass to, but the US is closer to this than china.

but then it could be looked at from a completely different point of view maybe china is trying to kick start another cold war..look how well the US economy was during the cold war, maybe china see that threating the US will cause a stand off between the two powers and boost it's economy.

I don't know, but the fact remains that it will be the US that will destroy my homeland in event of a nuclear war, not china.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
destroy the world? i'm not the one making casual threats of nuclear war, china is.

you support tyranny of communists over democracies. you may not be a communist, but you are certainly an immoral spineless appeaser. you are like the man who stands by while a woman gets raped. be proud of yourself.

I believe the US has done that a couple times as well. I don't know how you've been so blind not to see that. When did I support tyranny of communists over democracies? I simply said that the US should not aid Taiwan and has no business doing so. There are some issues of communism I agree on and some I don't. Doesn't make me a communist or supporter of tryanny of communists.

I am like the man who stands by while a woman gets raped. LOL where do you get these ridiculous analogies? Now you're comparing individuals and irrelevant scenarios to whole countries. Please stop with the ridiculous analogies. Although they are quite entertaining and an embarassment to yourself.

Look if you want to continue this immature name calling do it over PM. I've got every name in the book for you that even the Devil himself could not stand. But I want this conversation to contain at least a little maturity. But of course if you're teenager than that's perfectly understandable. I will let you name bash me all you want.

 

[pclstyle]

i love debates between totally uninformed individuals




some of you take this "pride in the USA" thing to the point of utter idiocy and ignorance. Get a hold of some facts before you start spouting your complete bullsh!t.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
idiot, american uses its nuclear deterence to DEFEND FREE PEOPLES FROM OPPRESSION. not as blackmail to oppress democratic peoples, i wonder what has happened to you that you can't see such simple and stark differences. are you from china? atleast you'd have the excuse of being brainwashed by propganda and chinese nationalism. if you are from the west, shame on you.

Sometimes what you read from the press and the media isn't always true. I'm not surprised you got sucked in and that you're so gullible. This issue takes a lot of research that I'm not going to get into. Maybe one day you will find the truth.

 

[0roo0roo]

wait? we brandished nukes to destroy democracies?

and yes, you are like the man who stands by while a woman gets raped. you want to stand by while a bully takes away the freedom of another people in fact you don't just stand by, you actively help, justify, defend such actions. its even worse.

how about you support chinas invasion of japan under nuclear blackmail too eh? japan didn't spontenously populate. japanese are actually chinese people. a RENEGADE chinese people that should be brought back under the jackboot of the communist regiem!! oh yes!! it is perfectly justifiable!

 

[pclstyle]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
idiot, american uses its nuclear deterence to DEFEND FREE PEOPLES FROM OPPRESSION. not as blackmail to oppress democratic peoples, i wonder what has happened to you that you can't see such simple and stark differences. are you from china? atleast you'd have the excuse of being brainwashed by propganda and chinese nationalism. if you are from the west, shame on you.

ahahahahh "DEFEND FREE PEOPLES FROM OPPRESSION"

:disgust: lol, well, at least we know US propaganda works. Listen to a little too much NPR? Idealism is fine, but get a grip on reality. And: "are you from china?" DUMBEST QUESTION EVER.

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: Stumps
the truth is, the Nuclear weapon is the last REAL piece of influence it has, it's economy is weaking, it's armed forces are beginning to be spead out and has cease to be effective in the event of a MAJOR threat, it's government has to resort to lies to start wars to help it's ailing economy along.
the US is in it's twilight of being a super power, it must face the facts that nations such as china will overtake the US..sure china will probably fall on it's ass to, but the US is closer to this than china.

but then it could be looked at from a completely different point of view maybe china is trying to kick start another cold war..look how well the US economy was during the cold war, maybe china see that threating the US will cause a stand off between the two powers and boost it's economy.

I don't know, but the fact remains that it will be the US that will destroy my homeland in event of a nuclear war, not china.

Exactly. If the US wants to do something to prevent its further downfall, it should not go to the aid of Taiwan. Doing so will only worsen its economy to oblivion. If it didn't want it to even begin sliding into a downfall it should not have gone to war with Iraq. But that is too late and because of it, it's going to wreak havoc on our economy. We are the ones who are going to pay.

Again, I support our troops all the way but sometimes I don't support the causes. If people think that what the government does is always rational and best for its people and country, those people are in for a rude awakening.