Replacing steps

[BoomerD]

don't ever buy cheap screws. not worth it. GRK is geat, SPAX is also good, and for bigger stuff i use the fastenmaster xxxlok stuff.

SPAX is my go-to for construction screws.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

@Greenman

Weather is getting better, I’m going to tackle this soon.
I want to use a stringer hanger like this

Simpson Strong-Tie LSC 18-Gauge ZMAX Galvanized Adjustable Stringer Connector LSCZ - The Home Depot

The LSCZ adjustable stair-stringer connector offers a versatile, concealed connection between the stair stringer and the carrying header or rim joist while replacing costly framing. Field slopeable to

www.homedepot.com

However my ledger board isn’t wide enough to get the 4 1/8 fit.
I have one post I can mount another 2x10 or similar to but there is nothing on the other side to anchor it to.
Would using some kind of strap secure the stairs enough? I will anchor the last step to the concrete pad. I’m thinking most of the force is downward plus the stringer and footing will keep the stairs from moving but I’m not sure about this.

Basically connect B with some sort of straight metal mounting strap.



Getting under to brace like the picture will be challenging I only have 10 1/2 inches of clearance.

 

[Greenman]

Install a block between the stringers that's screwed to the deck, it should be as wide as the entire stringer at the deck. Then screw through the stringer into the block.
It's called a pressure block and will solve your problem.

 

[jmagg]

Here is another alternative if you have the run room. It would be a foot farther out onto the pad. I used standard joist hangers and a ledger board to secure the stringer
top. Also cant get the weather to stain the sob.

 

[PowerEngineer]

If I am looking at your initial pictures correctly, it appears that the existing stair stringers are actually more triangular in shape, resting on concrete from the edge of the deck to the end of the stairs (i.e. not like your diagram). If you are replicating the existing design then the stringers themselves provide all the support for the stairs; they can effectively be an independent free-standing structure. If so, then the connection to the deck only needs to be strong enough to prevent the stairs from moving horizontally (no vertical load), and I don't think you need a bigger ledger board or that particular metal hanger. But I will defer to Greenman.

 

[Micrornd]

I'd just add, that I don't know your age so -
My mother in her later years used a walker. To accommodate this I made the stair steps on my decks with a 4" rise and a 22" run.
This meets codes and allows the safe use of a walker without having to use a ramp.
Additionally all our younger friends always comment on how much more comfortable those steps are compared to the usual 7 5/8" risers.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If I am looking at your initial pictures correctly, it appears that the existing stair stringers are actually more triangular in shape, resting on concrete from the edge of the deck to the end of the stairs (i.e. not like your diagram). If you are replicating the existing design then the stringers themselves provide all the support for the stairs; they can effectively be an independent free-standing structure. If so, then the connection to the deck only needs to be strong enough to prevent the stairs from moving horizontally (no vertical load), and I don't think you need a bigger ledger board or that particular metal hanger. But I will defer to Greenman.

Basically I need a brace because by my math:

21" ground to deck surface (minus 1' for deck planks)
9.5" outside joist
---------------------------------------------
10.5" from ground to bottom outside joist

Steps:
5.5" first run
7" second run
----------------------------------------------
12.5" from ground

That leaves 2" to install a stringer hanger and all appear to require 4 1/8th. Basically I need an F board (see picture). I have a post to secure one part to but the other side will be difficult. I guess I can do what is shown in this picture but crawling under there is going to suck. Using a hammer will be nearly impossible.

I believe the current stringer is toe nailed in with a support board but its tough to see. This is the second part that is failing so I would prefer to build differently.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I'd just add, that I don't know your age so -
My mother in her later years used a walker. To accommodate this I made the stair steps on my decks with a 4" rise and a 22" run.
This meets codes and allows the safe use of a walker without having to use a ramp.
Additionally all our younger friends always comment on how much more comfortable those steps are compared to the usual 7 5/8" risers.

Nice of you to do but that is not needed at this juncture and hopefully when it is needed it will be time to rebuild the whole damn thing.
I don't want to mess with the run too much because that will require me to cut a new railing which I really want to avoid.

 

[PowerEngineer]

I apologize for not doing a better job of explaining what I mean. What you are describing is the standard method of building longer runs of wooden steps and it will certainly work.

But for just two or three steps, there can be other approaches. Let's hope this picture is worth a thousand of my words!



The big difference here is that each step is directly supported from below and therefore does not rely on the attachment to the deck (or whatever) to hold them up (just needed to hold them in place if that's desired). What I see in your photos suggests to me that your two existing steps are built something like this with what I'll call "L" shaped stringers. If so (and there is already concrete to support their bottoms over their entire length) then this might be easier. But I could be wrong...

 

[jmagg]

Looks like pre cut stringers from the depot would be very close at 6.75 inch rise, even better if your pad pitches away an inch or so.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I apologize for not doing a better job of explaining what I mean. What you are describing is the standard method of building longer runs of wooden steps and it will certainly work.

But for just two or three steps, there can be other approaches. Let's hope this picture is worth a thousand of my words!

View attachment 19029

The big difference here is that each step is directly supported from below and therefore does not rely on the attachment to the deck (or whatever) to hold them up (just needed to hold them in place if that's desired). What I see in your photos suggests to me that your two existing steps are built something like this with what I'll call "L" shaped stringers. If so (and there is already concrete to support their bottoms over their entire length) then this might be easier. But I could be wrong...

Great idea but won’t work, pad is too far away for the top step. Top step would end up on bare ground.
BTW I can tell you are an Engineer by your excellent thoughts about how stuff is supported and how stuff is assembled.

Looks like pre cut stringers from the depot would be very close at 6.75 inch rise, even better if your pad pitches away an inch or so.

Thought about this and it would be easier, just concerned about the step that would have and extra one inch rise. Would bother the hell out of my wife.
I saw some precut 7” stringers from mermads(spelling?) but they had horrible reviews about being cut wrong. The pictures looked like it was minimally treated wood too, very light color.

 

[Greenman]

Looks like pre cut stringers from the depot would be very close at 6.75 inch rise, even better if your pad pitches away an inch or so.

Stringers are so easy to cut that there is no need to try and make something work. It requires a tape measure, a framing square, and a saw. If you really want to go pro, you can toss in a set of square nuts. Armed with those tools and some simple math, you can frame just about any set of stairs.

 

[Greenman]

I apologize for not doing a better job of explaining what I mean. What you are describing is the standard method of building longer runs of wooden steps and it will certainly work.

But for just two or three steps, there can be other approaches. Let's hope this picture is worth a thousand of my words!

View attachment 19029

The big difference here is that each step is directly supported from below and therefore does not rely on the attachment to the deck (or whatever) to hold them up (just needed to hold them in place if that's desired). What I see in your photos suggests to me that your two existing steps are built something like this with what I'll call "L" shaped stringers. If so (and there is already concrete to support their bottoms over their entire length) then this might be easier. But I could be wrong...

That's actually a very good solution for two or three treads, I've done something similar on occasion. I'm so locked into a process that I've done dozens of times that I never considered a simpler approach.
Great advice!

 

[Micrornd]

Stringers are so easy to cut that there is no need to try and make something work. It requires a tape measure, a framing square, and a saw. If you really want to go pro, you can toss in a set of square nuts. Armed with those tools and some simple math, you can frame just about any set of stairs anything.

Fixed that for you

 

[Greenman]

Fixed that for you

If we're going to get picky about it we'd have to add a chalk line to the mix.

 

[Micrornd]

If we're going to get picky about it we'd have to add a chalk line to the mix.

Why ?
You said a tape measure, so with a pencil ....................
Go on, try and tell me you haven't done it at least once

 

[jmagg]

Stringers are so easy to cut that there is no need to try and make something work. It requires a tape measure, a framing square, and a saw. If you really want to go pro, you can toss in a set of square nuts. Armed with those tools and some simple math, you can frame just about any set of stairs.

OP would need to handle 2x12 material, and the precuts are nearly perfect taking an inch off the bottom rise. Just a suggestion.

 

[jmagg]

Did this project end well?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I haven’t handled it yet been other problem after other problem recently.
weather looks crappy for this weekend too

 

[jmagg]

I hear ya on the probs. This year for us are large aggressive wasps.
I did get around to staining our deck, and used Ready Seal. Im fairly impressed with ease of application and water repellency so far. Made with paraffin oil.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Finally got this done. My ghetto deck screw the crap out of everything to hold the damaged stairs lasted longer than I expected.
First off thanks for all the help guys
Couple of pictures

Testing the layout


All but done, just need a kick board


Irritates me that one piece is a completely different color (for now) board was more knotted than I thought but it is every straight & flat.
There is a 2x6 brace board anchored into the concret
I used mostly Simpson strong stuff:
Stringer mounts which were perfect for a guy like me. Zero skill required
I also added some L mounts to brace the stringers at the bottom
I made a small back brace as @Greenman recommended
I didn’t use any 3/8 ledger screws (lag bolt/screws) because I couldn’t find any that were name brand good or better corrosion resistant. I figured construction screws are just as strong, I used GRK ultra whatever.
Stairs are level, stairs are solid no creaking or wobbling.
Wife is happy because those stairs have bothered her for 8 years.
Two layers of aluminum flashing at the bottom. I know I should have used copper, I just couldn’t get myself to pay nearly $65 more for copper.
I used all ground rated wood
**I wish I kept the packaging from the drill bit I got for the concrete & wood. God damn fabulous bit. Cut wood great and cut the concrete with ease. Some vendor dude was at Home Depot pawning their stuff.
I put some roofing tape on the top of the cut stringers hopefully to keep them from splitting.


Related.
I am shocked how corroded the nails were. To my knowledge the deck is 12-15 years(ish) old.
Old nails




Above are the good nails. Upon taking everything apart 2 nails were so corroded they were probably 60% of the size of the others, I pulled those two out by hand and one was obviously snapped from before the demo.

edits: the GRK screws instead of a 3/8 lag screw are the high weight screws architectural screws

next before winter is to paint & stain but I’ll wait on the stairs.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

OP would need to handle 2x12 material, and the precuts are nearly perfect taking an inch off the bottom rise. Just a suggestion.

regarding this, yeah I really would have preferred pre-cut. Simply wasn’t an option for the measure I needed.
And yes I screwed up two so bad I had to start over. One is still a little short but with all the other supports it seems fine.
First step is 1/8th to 3/16 too tall, top step is 1/8th to 3/16th too short. Minor detail that nobody will notice but me.

 

[Greenman]

Stringers look really good, clean job.

 

[herm0016]

stairs can be intimidating. good work.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

stairs can be intimidating. good work.

Yeah, I really respect people who build stuff professionally. Tons of math that admittedly is easy but there is so much of it very easy to make a mistake.
Tons of precision is required, one piece that is not square causes other unforeseen problems.
Then what screws and connectors it is only as strong as its weakest point. What gauge metal, what level of corrosion resistance, what thickness of wood, how many knots, how straight is the wood and so on.
Basically it is a whole bunch of seemingly simple tasks but each task is so interwoven into the final solution there is little room for error.