Replacing steps

Feb 4, 2009
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I’m not a particularly good woodworker. I’m a measure once cut 16 times kind of guy.
I have sanders, sanding planes a circular saw.
I want to replace these steps with something more sturdy. Wife has always hated how they bend a little plus they have become cracked over time.
I think adding a 4th riser will make them much more rigid. I’m pretty confident I can disassemble them and just use the current pieces as a template to cut.
Questions:
Will a circular saw work for this task
If adding a 4th riser should I copy the middle one and sand what comes out to make it level? Sand equal amounts of the bottom that touches to concrete and too “steps”
Current steps use nails, would screws be better or are nail better for expansion/contraction during hot or cold
They are mounted to a railing which is in good shape and scares the hell out of me to replace.

4FEDB200-01E7-42CF-80E2-D526434E91B1.jpeg

Before it’s said, I plan on painting & staining when complete.
 
Last edited:

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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Adding a fourth riser will just make for very low steps. Build them properly and they'll be plenty strong. The tools you need to build stairs are a tape measure, framing square, circular saw, screw gun, and a pencil. In your case a hammer drill would help a lot, as anchoring to the concrete slab would be beneficial.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,402
136
Adding a fourth riser will just make for very low steps. Build them properly and they'll be plenty strong. The tools you need to build stairs are a tape measure, framing square, circular saw, screw gun, and a pencil. In your case a hammer drill would help a lot, as anchoring to the concrete slab would be beneficial.

Sorry didn't explain that well a 4th one of these the vertical part of the step.

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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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A fourth stringer, got it. That will help, but it also adds to the difficulty of cutting the stringers. They all need to be exactly the same. You can achieve the same rigidity by going to 2x decking and closed risers.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
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some lumber yards sell precut stringers. maybe the big box stores as well? if the height works, that may be a good way to go for you. Cutting the stringers is non trivial. they must me accurate and all exactly the same to have a safe and sturdy staircase. i would do 4 stringers and 5/4 deck boards so that it matches the upper deck. using the 2x deck boards will require a different riser height on the stringers to make sure the steps are the same height.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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A fourth stringer, got it. That will help, but it also adds to the difficulty of cutting the stringers. They all need to be exactly the same. You can achieve the same rigidity by going to 2x decking and closed risers.

2x decking? Whats that?

some lumber yards sell precut stringers. maybe the big box stores as well? if the height works, that may be a good way to go for you. Cutting the stringers is non trivial. they must me accurate and all exactly the same to have a safe and sturdy staircase. i would do 4 stringers and 5/4 deck boards so that it matches the upper deck. using the 2x deck boards will require a different riser height on the stringers to make sure the steps are the same height.

The pre cut stringers never work, maybe I'll check when its disassembled and be mega happy if they do but I am planning on it not working.
I like the 5/4th decking idea and thought about doing that when we bought the house, whole problem is it totally messes up the rise and complicates the project more than I am comfortable with. Remember I am not so good with carpentry.

General question, I thought the goal was to have all the risers level so each riser isn't necessarily identical. My gut tells me it has a small slope towards the house (right side of the picture). Wouldn't that mean the right riser has different measures than the left riser?

Amazing how much they have split over 8 years, when we bought the house just the middle top riser had a crack/split in it which looked similar to how the bottom looks. Today they all have cracks in them.
I'm not that fat, wife is small.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
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the boards on there are 5/4 decking, what are you thinking of?

make them the same, and shim to level. you want the height of each stair to be the same, if they are different, you or someone else will trip and fall.

stair terminology.

the part with the steps cut in it that you circled in red is the stringer.
the part you walk on is called the tred, and currently you have 5/4 decking as tread material and the same material appears to be on the rest of the deck.
the rise is the height of each step
the riser is a board that fills in the rise of the stairs, currently you do not have risers.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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the boards on there are 5/4 decking, what are you thinking of?

make them the same, and shim to level. you want the height of each stair to be the same, if they are different, you or someone else will trip and fall.

stair terminology.

the part with the steps cut in it that you circled in red is the stringer.
the part you walk on is called the tred, and currently you have 5/4 decking as tread material and the same material appears to be on the rest of the deck.
the rise is the height of each step
the riser is a board that fills in the rise of the stairs, currently you do not have risers.

I measured them to be 1 inch but forgot 5/4 isn’t 1.25 inches. Got hung up on the possibility of them being wider.
@Greenman I do have a light duty impact drill, I have used it on concrete it works just works kind of slow.
Is this what you mean about anchoring to the concrete?

B1B39F3E-3EB5-48EC-8D13-DF73A850E647.jpeg


8FB001A8-B138-48AC-890C-F2C5674F811F.jpeg
 
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Micrornd

Golden Member
Mar 2, 2013
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2x decking? Whats that?
2x = 2 by
Such as 2x4, 2x6 2x8, etc
Rather than 1x = 1 by or 5/4x = 5/4 by

And based on your pictures, those stringers definitely need replaced (note the how they are split where the treads are nailed to them)
There can't be a whole lot holding those treads in place.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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136
2x = 2 by
Such as 2x4, 2x6 2x8, etc
Rather than 1x = 1 by or 5/4x = 5/4 by

And based on your pictures, those stringers definitely need replaced (note the how they are split where the treads are nailed to them)
There can't be a whole lot holding those treads in place.

Thanks and I know amazing how they have all deteriorated so much over 8 years. As I said earlier 8 years ago only top middle was cracked and nowhere near as much as it is today.
This is our primary entrance so they do get a lot of use.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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So brief measure reveled there is 18 inches between the stringers, which appears to be the maximum recommended spread. Not sure what code is for my area but starting to think 4 stringers is the way to go.
Should I use ground rated pressure treated wood for this project?
I know flashing is a good idea on wood that touches concrete, I’ll likely put some flashing down.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
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Yes, I'd be inclined to add a fourth stringer. You should consider cutting the new stringers out of pressure-treated wood and then apply preservative to the wood exposed by your cuts. Not sure how the stringers are attached to the structure of the deck behind them, but I would look to use some galvanized metal brackets for strength. I'd also add a wood brace across the back of the four stringers. If those treads are 1x8's then I'd consider changing to 2x4's for better rigidity (but you'll have to tweak the stringer design to keep the steps at their current height). I'd use cedar for the treads (and wait six months or so before painting), or maybe some of that new plastic decking? And closing in the risers will make your stairs look a lot better IMHO. Good luck!
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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Yes, I'd be inclined to add a fourth stringer. You should consider cutting the new stringers out of pressure-treated wood and then apply preservative to the wood exposed by your cuts. Not sure how the stringers are attached to the structure of the deck behind them, but I would look to use some galvanized metal brackets for strength. I'd also add a wood brace across the back of the four stringers. If those treads are 1x8's then I'd consider changing to 2x4's for better rigidity (but you'll have to tweak the stringer design to keep the steps at their current height). I'd use cedar for the treads (and wait six months or so before painting), or maybe some of that new plastic decking? And closing in the risers will make your stairs look a lot better IMHO. Good luck!

I am nearly positive they are held by those galvanized metal mounts adding a brace to the back would be challenging. Deck is too low to crawl under and steps are only inches from the foundation. I may be able to reach the left side to add a brace but no way will I be able to reach the middle or right side.

Maybe I could run a brace across the back, mark it then brace before it is mounted to the deck.
 

PowerEngineer

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Oct 22, 2001
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Sorry, I am not doing a good job of describing the brace. What I had in mind was a 2x4 connecting the lower inside corners (i.e. nearest the house) of the four stringers to each other; no connections to anything else. Thinking this would help make the whole thing more rigid, but probably overkill (which I have a tendency toward).
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
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Sorry, I am not doing a good job of describing the brace. What I had in mind was a 2x4 connecting the lower inside corners (i.e. nearest the house) of the four stringers to each other; no connections to anything else. Thinking this would help make the whole thing more rigid, but probably overkill (which I have a tendency toward).

Ah I get it thanks! I had a similar thought about that.
I’m still sort of stressed about the calculations but I found a few stair calculators.
Only thing that is weird about some of the calculators is a few of them want the first step lower than the rest. Appears they are targeting as close to 7” as possible which sounds sort of stupid.

More measure stuff, I have approximately 6 3/8 steps. I should be able to fit a 1x5.5” deck board in there easily but slightly tight. Measure was from top of the step

Assuming I want to add the same deck board as a kick board should I add an additional inch to my total run?

As in now I have a 20 inch total run, should I calculate a 21 inch run?

Above is a approximate measure for ideas
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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I measured them to be 1 inch but forgot 5/4 isn’t 1.25 inches. Got hung up on the possibility of them being wider.
@Greenman I do have a light duty impact drill, I have used it on concrete it works just works kind of slow.
Is this what you mean about anchoring to the concrete?

View attachment 17749


View attachment 17750
Yup, that's what you want.
If you can give me the exact height differential between the deck and slab I can send you a drawing of exactly how to lay it out and cut the stringers. If you have access to a plotter I can send it at 1 to 1 scale.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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Yup, that's what you want.
If you can give me the exact height differential between the deck and slab I can send you a drawing of exactly how to lay it out and cut the stringers. If you have access to a plotter I can send it at 1 to 1 scale.

That is super kind of you.
I really appreciate it.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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F me, this just happened.
Nails they used are completely rotted right stringer is very rotted.
Looks like my Saturday is gone.

Used some deck screws to keep it together for today.

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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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Thanks again, weather sucks for the next week. Hopefully my deck screws keep everything together.
Speaking of deck screws, GRK makes awesome screws. More money that the big box stuff, and worth it. Check them out when you start building.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
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Speaking of deck screws, GRK makes awesome screws. More money that the big box stuff, and worth it. Check them out when you start building.

don't ever buy cheap screws. not worth it. GRK is geat, SPAX is also good, and for bigger stuff i use the fastenmaster xxxlok stuff.