replacing my 7950 this year

[bryanW1995]

from what I read it appears that the OP was considering a $150-$200 card, which would certainly preclude a 5970. Unfortunately for the OP, that lands him smack in the middle of no man's land with a 5770 (sucky), 4890 (power sucky), or gtx 260/275 (sucky AND power sucky).

A good recommendation to the OP is to wait to see what 5830 brings to the table. It should be ~$200, have all the nice features of the 5xxx series, and be significantly faster than 5770 and a little faster than 4890/gtx275.

edit: I know that your intentions are not bad, but you must admit that this does seem to happen quite a bit with you. Maybe pretending that you're talking somebody you care about (wife/daughter/mother) instead of osama bin laden would be a good start.

 

[toyota]

from what I read it appears that the OP was considering a $150-$200 card, which would certainly preclude a 5970. Unfortunately for the OP, that lands him smack in the middle of no man's land with a 5770 (sucky), 4890 (power sucky), or gtx 260/275 (sucky AND power sucky).

A good recommendation to the OP is to wait to see what 5830 brings to the table. It should be ~$200, have all the nice features of the 5xxx series, and be significantly faster than 5770 and a little faster than 4890/gtx275.

no he was considering the 5970. he even tried to rationalize buying a top of the line card now and upgrading the cpu next year. a 5970 would be way beyond silly with a 5000 X2. a 5870 or even 5850 would still not be a wise choice with a 5000 X2 especially at just 1440x900. a 5770 or 5750 would be a really good choice based on his situation. thats a pretty strong card and can max basically every game out there at 1440x900. he still would not fully utilize a 5770 or 5750 especially in more cpu dependent games but I would still recommend it over a 5670.

 

[Blue Shift]

Since there's some confusion: D-day for this upgrade will probably be this fall, but could be pushed back until Winter or later depending on the market. If the 6k series happens this year, then it's a sure bet that I'll wait until it hits. For the cheap Fermis.



------------------------

sorry but most of that crap just doenst add up. I think you are being completely illogical but are too blind too even see it.

why should I explain basic math to you?

it just doesnt add add up or make the least bit of sense. he just doesnt seem to understand why no matter how its explained.

anyway regardless of what you think of me I am actually try to help him not waste money. I am also trying to help him get a pc that will be much better for gaming overall.

You can prove that someone's wrong by calling them names? This changes everything.



------------------------

A repost of the supposed "faulty math" that toyota refuses to point out the oh-so-terrible flaw in:

Here, let me illustrate this difference in approaches:

toyota's suggestion:
Year 0: Mid-grade gpu, cpu (psu, mobo, ram req) -- $700-850
Year 1: Nothing.
Year 2: Mid-grade gpu, cpu (psu, mobo, ram req) -- $700-850
Year 3: Nothing.

what I'd like to do:
Year 0: High-end gpu (psu req) -- $500-750
Year 1: Mid-grade cpu (mobo, ram req): $300-400
Year 2: Nothing.

Using the least common multiple of a 6-year period, we're looking at a $2100-2550 6-year total for toyota's method, vs $1600-2300 for my proposed one. That's 350 to 425 average per year, as opposed to my 267 to 383 per year.

This was calculated using the following numbers:
Mid-grade GPU:  300-400
High-end GPU:  400-600
mid-grade cpu:  100-150
MoBo:  100
RAM:  100-150
PSU:  100-150

Note that some of the numbers that I used to estimate the cost ceilings with toyota's method are lower than the prices of components needed.  
This assumes (with toyota's method only) that at least one part from the previous build may not be obsolete yet, even though I find that to be improbable.

toyota, the difference between what I'd like to do and what you think I'm trying to do is simple: I buy for longevity, not for immediate performance gains.

The cpu bottleneck during this initial phase-in may be extreme. Or it might not. We'll see. It is the 5000+ X2 Black Edition, after all; while it's running at stock speeds now, I'll start overclocking as soon as I need to.

Note that I did not use this as a guideline for building my current system. It was assembled haphazardly, with very little plan in mind.




Of course, none of this matters now. My logic means nothing in today's world of ad hominem attacks and troll wars.

I would stop and go someplace else, but I'd miss toyota's shining face if he left my life, even if he were only gone for a few hours.

 

[toyota]

Since there's some confusion: D-day for this upgrade will probably be this fall, but could be pushed back until Winter or later depending on the market. If the 6k series happens this year, then it's a sure bet that I'll wait until it hits. For the cheap Fermis.

------------------------

you can prove that someone's wrong by calling them names? This changes everything.

------------------------
A repost of the supposed "faulty math" that toyota refuses to point out the oh-so-terrible flaw in:

toyota, the difference between what I'd like to do and what you think I'm trying to do is simple: I buy for longevity, not for immediate performance gains.

The cpu bottleneck during this initial phase-in may be extreme. Or it might not. We'll see. It is the 5000+ X2 Black Edition, after all; while it's running at stock speeds now, I'll start overclocking as soon as I need to.

Note that I did not use this as a guideline for building my current system. It was assembled haphazardly, with very little plan in mind.




Of course, none of this matters now. My logic means nothing in today's world of ad hominem attacks and troll wars.

I would stop and go someplace else, but I'd miss toyota's shining face if he left my life, even if he were only gone for a few hours.

what I am trying to make you understand is that you DONT buy a high end gpu now so it can perform at its best nearly a year from now. before that time comes we will have faster gpus with better features for a cheaper price. you accomplish nothing but wasting money during that year while you are waiting. gpus can easily be upgraded for a reason you know. I just dont get why you cant understand that the only reason to buy a high gpu is if you can use it NOW or at least in the immediate future.

anyway you are obviously never going to grasp this and its your money to waste so knock yourself out. just remember when you are still getting 15-20 fps or sometimes worse for minimum framerates you could be getting better overall performance with a cheaper card, such as 5770, and cpu/mobo/ram upgrade.

 

[Blue Shift]

what I am trying to make you understand is that you DONT buy a high end gpu now so it can perform at its best nearly a year from now. before that time comes we will have faster gpus with better features for a cheaper price. you accomplish nothing but wasting money during that year while you are waiting. gpus can easily be upgraded for a reason you know. I just dont get why you cant understand that the only reason to buy a high gpu is if you can use it NOW or at least in the immediate future.

anyway you are obviously never going to grasp this and its your money to waste so knock yourself out. just remember when you are still getting 15-20 fps or sometimes worse for minimum framerates you could be getting better performance with a cheaper card and cpu/mobo/ram upgrade.

I think I love you, toyota. Will you have my babies?

 

[Blue Shift]

Now who's being juvenile when their argument doesn't hold water?

---
toyota was simply spewing the same rubbish that he's been covering this thread with since page 1. I've proven logically that using this method will result in my having a fine system for the next 3 years, and proven mathematically that doing so saves money for someone who doesn't resell their parts. All that toyota has said is, in essence, "you're an idiot, I'm right, and you'll regret it."

He's stated that "you DONT buy a high end gpu now so it can perform at its best nearly a year from now." He doesn't, but I do. toyota is determined to bash any way of thinking that is not his own, simply because it isn't his own.
---

Or were you simply upset that I haven't invited you to the lovefest yet? Keep it up, and maybe it'll happen.

In reality, none of this is actually related to the question that I asked in the OP...

So, yeah, waiting for options looks good right now. Does anyone have any comments on different manufacturers, want to share some general advice, and/or want to flame me for something I've said in this ridiculously long first post?

Oh, wait... I can see all of this qualifying as answer to the second or third parts of the question. But what about the first one, which manufacturers should I be watching for innovative boards that can last 3+ years, and/or which features should I select for in order to increase the chances of the card lasting that long?

 

[illmatik94]

I am going to have to agree with toyota's recommendations on this one. A high-end video card using that processor will be a complete waste. Unfortunately, since both your GPU and CPU are outdated, you need to make a tough choice.

Upgrading the CPU may be a hard pill to swallow since you upgraded it so recently, but you must have known that a 5000x2 in 2008/9 was not going to be able to compete with mid range CPUs. A new quad today will allow you to fully utilize your current hardware and future GPU upgrades.

Also, the math for your upgrade cycle seems a little bit off. Buying a new 100-150 dollar PSU every other year seems very illogical. A high quality 500-700 watt processor should last 3-4 years. I'm currently running a 550w Antec PSU from 2005 that is powering an e8500 and 5850 and has been great.

Good luck!

 

[cbn]

---

Oh, wait... I can see all of this qualifying as answer to the second or third parts of the question. But what about the first one, which manufacturers should I be watching for innovative boards that can last 3+ years, and/or which features should I select for in order to increase the chances of the card lasting that long?

If you are looking for a long lasting mainboard I would go Asrock x58 Extreme which can be had for $169.99 at Newegg. It has plenty of expansion slots of additional add-in-boards (Video cards, USB3, SATA III).

However, I am not really sure this is neccessary if you can replace that 5000+ x2 with a AM2+ Phenom II x4 processor. Check for CPU compatibility because it might be as easy swap for your mainboard.

 

[Blue Shift]

If you are looking for a long lasting mainboard I would go Asrock x58 Extreme which can be had for $169.99 at Newegg. It has plenty of expansion slots of additional add-in-boards (Video cards, USB3, SATA III).

However, I am not really sure this is neccessary if you can replace that 5000+ x2 with a AM2+ Phenom II x4 processor. Check for CPU compatibility because it might be as easy swap for your mainboard.

Oh, sorry. By boards, I was referring to the "card" portion of a gpu, along with the cooler. Apologies for the terminology-brainfart.

 

[cbn]

Oh, sorry. By boards, I was referring to the "card" portion of a gpu, along with the cooler. Apologies for the terminology-brainfart.

Blue shift,

Can you list all your exact system specs for us?

Mainboard manufacturer and model?

PSU manufacturer and model?

etc, etc, etc

 

[TheMeanestGuest]

Did we ever find out OPs motherboard? Even if it isn't officially supported, some AM2 motherboards will still work with Athlon II or Phenom II processors.

Depending, you might take a ~%10 performance hit in comparison to how it would be on an AM2+ or AM3 board due to HT speed. But that's not too big a deal when you consider overclocking options or the fact that it still is significantly better.

I mean, when you can get an Athlon II x4 for $99 or a Phenom II x4 for $140 there isn't much reason not to, if you're willing to spend the money, that is.

 

[Blue Shift]

Asus m2n-e SLI (not an AM2+ board)
4gb ddr2, pc6400 ram
Athlon 5000+ X2 Black Edition
XFX nVidia 7950, silent
450watt Mad Dog PSU
Win7-incompatable TV tuner
GameCube
Duct tape

As a reminder to all, I am planning to switch my psu this year as well.

 

[mfenn]

---
toyota was simply spewing the same rubbish that he's been covering this thread with since page 1. I've proven logically that using this method will result in my having a fine system for the next 3 years, and proven mathematically that doing so saves money for someone who doesn't resell their parts. All that toyota has said is, in essence, "you're an idiot, I'm right, and you'll regret it."

He's stated that "you DONT buy a high end gpu now so it can perform at its best nearly a year from now." He doesn't, but I do. toyota is determined to bash any way of thinking that is not his own, simply because it isn't his own.
---

Or were you simply upset that I haven't invited you to the lovefest yet? Keep it up, and maybe it'll happen.

In reality, none of this is actually related to the question that I asked in the OP...

Oh, wait... I can see all of this qualifying as answer to the second or third parts of the question. But what about the first one, which manufacturers should I be watching for innovative boards that can last 3+ years, and/or which features should I select for in order to increase the chances of the card lasting that long?

Would you like me to explain why your logic is flawed?

Using your definitions for high-end and mid-range.

Exhibit A:

Performance. I picked the benchmark most flattering to last year's high-end card. Yes, today's mid-range is equivalent to last-year's high end with one important caveat. That is: this benchmark is entirely GPU-limited. As such it represents a best case. Your case will CPU-limited, which compresses the difference between the cards.

Exhibit B:

Power. The high-end cards are pushing the boundaries of what is possible, and as such have horrible efficiency.

Exhibit C:
Features. By buying the mid-range more frequently, you get access to all of the neat features. DX11, Eyefinity, better AA algorithms etc. Chances are, you will want at least one feature from the new generation. If you have a $600 card, you will feel chained to it.

Thus. Your upgrade cycle makes no sense. Your high-end card will perform like a mid-range card with your current CPU. It will begin performing to its true potential after a CPU upgrade 1 year from now. By that time, the mid-range card will perform the same as your high-end card but will do it in a cooler, more power-efficient, and more featureful way.

 

[cbn]

Blue shift,

I just checked your CPU compatability list and it looks like AM2+ Phenom II is not supported.

The other posters are right though, in that 1400 x 900 resolution just doesn't require a lot of GPU power.

I think you would see a better return on your money upgrading to a nice 1080p monitor before you do anything else.

 

[toyota]

mfenn, I have tried to explain the same thing to him but he doesnt get it. I am trying to help him save money and get the same performance but he just cant see that for some.

Blue Shift, the power supply would not power a 5970, 5870 or even a 5850 safely. theres another reason to get a 5770 or 5750.

so lets see how this adds up so far.

1. the 5000 X2 is relatively slow cpu
2. 1440x900 is fairly low res
3. 450 watt Mad Dog psu not sufficient for high end gpu

yep it looks like 5770 or 5750 would be your best bet. remember a gpu like either of those will murder your 7950. when you upgrade your cpu and psu in a year then you can sell the 5750/5770 and get a new gpu at that time.

 

[toyota]

Blue shift,

I just checked your CPU compatability list and it looks like AM2+ Phenom II is not supported.

The other posters are right though, in that 1400 x 900 resolution just doesn't require a lot of GPU power.

I think you would see a better return on your money upgrading to a nice 1080p monitor before you do anything else.

please please dont recommend the bigger monitor like you always do when someone has a lower end cpu. sure that will be less performance going down the drain but in the end a 5000 X2 is not really sufficient for a 5850, 5870 or 5970. there are just too many games where the minimums will be too poor at the settings that those high end cards are capable of. again just trying to create a more gpu limited situation when you have a slow cpu doesnt help the more cpu intensive games play any better. 15-20fps is just as crappy at 1920 as it is at 1440x900.

 

[cbn]

Blue Shift, the power supply would not power a 5970, 5870 or even a 5850 safely. theres another reason to get a 5770 or 5750.

so lets see how this adds up so far.

1. the 5000 X2 is relatively slow cpu
2. 1440x900 is fairly low res
3. 450 watt Mad Dog psu not sufficient for high end gpu

yep it looks like 5770 or 5750 would be your best bet. remember a gpu like either of those will murder your 7950. when you upgrade your cpu and psu in a year then you can sell the 5750/5770 and get a new gpu at that time.

Co-signed

 

[Blue Shift]

Would you like me to explain why your logic is flawed?

Using your definitions for high-end and mid-range.

Exhibit A:

Performance. I picked the benchmark most flattering to last year's high-end card. Yes, today's mid-range is equivalent to last-year's high end with one important caveat. That is: this benchmark is entirely GPU-limited. As such it represents a best case. Your case will CPU-limited, which compresses the difference between the cards.

Exhibit B:

Power. The high-end cards are pushing the boundaries of what is possible, and as such have horrible efficiency.

Exhibit C:
Features. By buying the mid-range more frequently, you get access to all of the neat features. DX11, Eyefinity, better AA algorithms etc. Chances are, you will want at least one feature from the new generation. If you have a $600 card, you will feel chained to it.

Thus. Your upgrade cycle makes no sense. Your high-end card will perform like a mid-range card with your current CPU. It will begin performing to its true potential after a CPU upgrade 1 year from now. By that time, the mid-range card will perform the same as your high-end card but will do it in a cooler, more power-efficient, and more featureful way.

Thank you, kind sir, for proving my point. Note that the high-end gpu from the previous year performs just as well as the new mid-grade gpu, whereas the previous year's mid-grade gpu shows abysmal performance. Buy buying a mid-grade gpu now, I'd doom myself to having a low-end card by the time I switch CPUs.

It's important to note that I'm not cpu-bottlenecked yet; not with the 7950. Therefore, I will see a performance increase from a gpu upgrade this year. If I go high-end, that gpu will bring more power to bear once I switch cpus. If I don't, then my "oh look, a deal!" gpu from this year will be a piece of shit by the time I put a new processor in the rig.

Once again, going high-end gives me a 3-year life cycle instead of 2.

As for your power argument: I care why? I live in a college dorm; there are no power bills.

About features: You do have a point there. However, this one can be circumvented by catching the technological wave at just the right moment. What features of nVidia's 200 series do the 8000s lack? How important are they?

 

[Blue Shift]

Co-signed

For the whatever-th time, I don't have a problem with switching PSUs. Hell, I'll sign this too. I agreed with you back on page 1; this is getting ridiculous.

 

[cbn]

please please dont recommend the bigger monitor like you always do when someone has a lower end cpu. sure that will be less performance going down the drain but in the end a 5000 X2 is not really sufficient for a 5850, 5870 or 5970. there are just too many games where the minimums will be too poor at the settings that those high end cards are capable of. again just trying to create a more gpu limited situation when you have a slow cpu doesnt help the game play any better.

I just recommended the LCD because it seems to me the OP is tired of collecting low-end parts.

P.S. Even if he had 1080p I would still recommend HD5750 or HD5770 with that Mad dog PSU.

 

[toyota]

I just recommended the LCD because it seems to me the OP is tired of collecting low-end parts.

yeah I understand that but I think getting a mid range card and sticking with his current monitor would be his best bang for buck at the moment. other than that he needs a new platform to run the very high end cards and then he could upgrade the monitor down the road.

 

[Blue Shift]

I just recommended the LCD because it seems to me the OP is tired of collecting low-end parts.

Aye. I also do a bit of 2-d graphics work, so a larger screen would be beneficial regardless of whether or not I can run games on it.

If I decide to go Green this round, though, I'd probably prefer a 120hz monitor to a 1080p and/or IPS one. Forking over the cash for a monitor would hurt right now, but so would buying a video card... I'll wait and see what happens with the market, this year's releases, and my job. Then again, plain old 1080p screens aren't as expensive as they used to be.

Ack, it's getting late again! Signing out.

 

[cbn]

yeah I understand that but I think getting a mid range card and sticking with his current monitor would be his best bang for buck at the moment. other than that he needs a new platform to run the very high end cards and then he could upgrade the monitor down the road.

I agree with what you are saying.

The OP has mentioned wanting a stronger PSU, but even with 1080p I would still recommend him getting a HD5770 or HD5750.

 

[cbn]

Aye. I also do a bit of 2-d graphics work, so a larger screen would be beneficial regardless of whether or not I can run games on it.

If I decide to go Green this round, though, I'd probably prefer a 120hz monitor to a 1080p and/or IPS one. Forking over the cash for a monitor would hurt right now, but so would buying a video card... I'll wait and see what happens with the market, this year's releases, and my job. Then again, plain old 1080p screens aren't as expensive as they used to be.

You can actually buy 120 Hz 1920 x1080p monitors now. I thought there was one on newegg but I couldn't find it.

http://3dvision-blog.com/acer-is-preparing-a-24-inch-120hz-full-hd-gaming-monitor/

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[toyota]

You can actually buy 120 Hz 1920 x1080p monitors now. I thought there was one on newegg but I couldn't find it.

here you go http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824009222