Replacing FiOS router

[agfkfhahddhdn]

I have Verizon FiOS internet (not TV) and I'd like to replace the stock router with one that doesn't suck; however, I understand that things are a little different with fiber. I've read that fiber delivers a digital signal directly to the house, so a modem is not needed. But I used to have TV along with internet, so the installer used coax from the ONT (the white box thing) instead of ethernet. I've never seen a router that accepted coax as the WAN input (except, of course, for the stock Verizon router) so I'm curious as to how I'd replace it. I've seen people bridge the connection from the stock router to a new one, but that seems utterly pointless, and I'd still be renting a router from Verizon and ultimately relying on a device that isn't very reliable. And I've seen people suggest calling Verizon and having a tech come out and replace the coax with ethernet, and inconvenience that quite obviously isn't worth it. Is there another way? Could I connect to the coax to a modem like I would with cable internet?

 

[JackMDS]

It is nice and easy to use the word "Suck". It is much harder to understand what and why something does not work well for you (if at all)..

If it is the Wireless part of the Router that does not work well just buy a Good Wireless Router configure it as an AP and use it as an additional Wireless source.

Using Wireless Routers (or Modem/Wireless Router) as a Switch with an Access Point - http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html

You can also search for the term Using my Modem/Router (replace the word with your Router Model number) as a Bridge Modem.

Then you can use your new Wireless router as a regular Wireless Router.

You can also disconnect the coax and try to plug a regular Router to the ONT Ethernet.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

It is nice and easy to use the word "Suck". It is much harder to understand what and why something does not work well for you (if at all)..

If it is the Wireless part of the Router that does not work well just buy a Good Wireless Router configure it as an AP and use it as an additional Wireless source.

Using Wireless Routers (or Modem/Wireless Router) as a Switch with an Access Point - http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html

You can also search for the term Using my Modem/Router (replace the word with your Router Model number) as a Bridge Modem.

Then you can use your new Wireless router as a regular Wireless Router.

You can also disconnect the coax and try to plug a regular Router to the ONT Ethernet.

Is this a joke?

My goal is to entirely get rid my Verizon router. I don't like paying a rental fee for it, I don't like the fact that it gives them access to my wifi password (which they then display, in plain text, on their support site), and frankly it just doesn't work very well. I clearly stated in my original post that I would like to get rid of my Verizon router. Not only do all of your suggestions require me to keep it, but I also addressed and dismissed each of them in my own post. It's as if you read none of my post before replying. Is that seriously how a super moderator on this forum "contributes"? I'm trying to not to be rude here but I am simply aghast at your response. It is helpful in zero ways.

 

[Pheran]

There's quite a bit of info about this in the DSLReports Verizon FIOS FAQ.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

There's quite a bit of info about this in the DSLReports Verizon FIOS FAQ.

I already read this. Did you? You will notice that it does not answer my question.

If your WAN connection between the ONT and the primary router is coax, you will not find any retail versions of routers available that support the MoCA standard. To use a different primary router, you will need to get the WAN connection switched over to Ethernet, or bridge your router through the Actiontec.

I already know and mentioned in my post that retail routers do not support coax in. I already know and mentioned in my post that bridging a new router through the Verizon router is possible. Please stop telling me what I already know. What I'm asking is if there is another way around this, or if I can connect the coax to a regular cable modem and then connect that to my own router. If you don't know the answers to these questions, and have nothing new to contribute, why are you replying? This isn't Reddit. You people are supposed to be better than that.

 

[KingFatty]

What about just using the Ethernet output from the ONT?

I think you are stuck with the ONT no matter what, and it can output the coax MoCA or the ethernet port. I've heard that sometimes the ethernet port on the ONT is already active for some people, otherwise you just make an easy phone call to Verizon to have them remotely activate the ethernet port of the ONT, without needing a tech to come out to do it so there is no incovenience.

It just made me think that using a modem with the ONT is just another extra thing you don't need, when you can get ethernet directly from the ONT and eliminate the need for a modem entirely. (in other words, ONT+Your Own Router is better than ONT+Your own Modem + Your own Router).

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

What about just using the Ethernet output from the ONT?

I think you are stuck with the ONT no matter what, and it can output the coax MoCA or the ethernet port. I've heard that sometimes the ethernet port on the ONT is already active for some people, otherwise you just make an easy phone call to Verizon to have them remotely activate the ethernet port of the ONT, without needing a tech to come out to do it so there is no incovenience.

It just made me think that using a modem with the ONT is just another extra thing you don't need, when you can get ethernet directly from the ONT and eliminate the need for a modem entirely. (in other words, ONT+Your Own Router is better than ONT+Your own Modem + Your own Router).

Well, first off, I'm definitely stuck with the ONT. That's what converts the fiber to coax/ethernet and it's obviously not going anywhere. I never had any intention whatsoever of getting rid of it.

I will have to check when I get home but I'm not sure if using the Ethernet from the ONT is something I can do on my own. The coax doesn't come directly out of the ONT, it comes out of a jack on the wall like 15 feet away. I imagine the ONT is wired to that jack through the wall. It's possible there is an Ethernet output on the front of the box, i.e. somewhere accessible, but I've never noticed it. If there's not then the wall would have to be re-wired, and of course I'm not doing that. My old apartment had a new ONT box, though, so I do know what you're talking about.

Failing that, do you know if connecting the FiOS coax output to a cable modem would actually work? I could pick up a DOCSIS 3.0 modem for like $40, that's not a huge deal to me.

 

[JackMDS]

Is that seriously how a super moderator on this forum "contributes"? I'm trying to not to be rude here but I am simply aghast at your response. It is helpful in zero ways.

My post did not help, that is OK. I am not expecting that every attempt to help would be successful.

That said the remark in the quote has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Take a good look in the mirror and take that "Chip off your shoulder".

 

[VirtualLarry]

Is this a joke?

My goal is to entirely get rid my Verizon router.
I'm trying to not to be rude here but I am simply aghast at your response. It is helpful in zero ways.

There's quite a bit of info about this in the DSLReports Verizon FIOS FAQ.

Yes, the DSLReports FAQ on this is pretty-much the authoritative source.

If you have TV service, you CANNOT get rid of the Verizon router entirely.

And no, for the last time, you CANNOT connect a cable modem to the coax. It's not a cable signal, it's MOCA. You might want to research that term.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

With the exception of KingFatty, everyone here has either a. not answered my question, b. restated something I said in my original post, or c. provided useful information but acted like I was an absolute retard for not knowing the difference between DOCSIS and MOCA. Thanks, guys, it's nice to cross this forum off the list.

My post did not help, that is OK. I am not expecting that every attempt to help would be successful.

That said the remark in the quote has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Take a good look in the mirror and take that "Chip off your shoulder".

You did not attempt to do anything. You went out of your way to do nothing. I just don't understand the thought process behind that.

And no, for the last time, you CANNOT connect a cable modem to the coax.

Last time? This is the FIRST time anyone has actually cared to answer this part of the question.

 

[azazel1024]

Yes, the DSLReports FAQ on this is pretty-much the authoritative source.

If you have TV service, you CANNOT get rid of the Verizon router entirely.

And no, for the last time, you CANNOT connect a cable modem to the coax. It's not a cable signal, it's MOCA. You might want to research that term.

I must not have working TV at home, because I don't have the verizon router at all.

You have two seperate needs here.

1) If you want to connect to your ONT box and your only option is Coax, then you MUST use a MoCA WAN bridge. The Verizon FIOS router is able to do that. MOST MoCA bridges are LAN only, they will not WAN bridge. You'll have to look for specific WAN bridging ability (DSLReports has a somewhat dated, but good list of MoCA bridges and what they support).

2) Screw coax and run an ethernet cable to your ONT box and call verizon to have them switch the ONT Ethernet port on. Then you can completely ditch the verizon router, as you won't need a MoCA WAN bridge.

If you have TV service too, then ALL you need is a MoCA LAN bridge, which ALL MoCA bridges provide functionality for (WAN MoCA bridging is done at a different frequency than LAN bridging, which is why some don't support WAN bridging).

The four setups I've done are as follows:

1) Verizon router did it all. This got "boring" after a year or so of this, I moved to a new house and saw the oppotunity for change. TV, internet and phone worked fine.

2) I set the Verizon router in to Bridge only mode and rolled my own Netgear 3500L for about a year or so as a router, with the verizon router providing LAN and WAN briding. TV, phone and internet worked fine.

3) I wanted to ditch coax, so I ran a Cat5e cable across the unfinished portion of my basement, through a crawl space, up in to my garage attic and then down the otherside to my ONT box (phew, 120ft later, it's plugged in). I called Verizon, they rolled a technician because the person on the phone couldn't understand what I wanted exactly. Technician called me on the road to ask what it was I was looking for, they took care of it remotely before they even showed up...then confirmed that the ONT box was in Ethernet mode and left (no charge for the truck roll, I confirmed in advance). Verizon router still in bridge mode, but LAN bridging for my DVR only (it provides internet access for the DVR for guide and VOD ability. TV always works fine with no MoCA bridging/internet access). TV, internet and phone all worked fine.

4) I got tired of my Netgear 3500L, got a TP-Link WDR3600 and also shortly after ditched the Verizon router entirely and got an Actiontec ECB3500 MoCA bridge (LAN only bridging IIRC). TV, phone and Internet all work just fine.

The ONLY time you may need the verizon router to stay on your network is if you go with the option of "remote DVR" for Verizon, where that won't properly with their router not in operation on your network. So even TV subscribers are just fine without Verizon's router on your network, so long as you don't care about not being able to do remote DVR (IE accessing your DVR over the internet).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sorry if I was incorrect. I thought that you need the Verizon router in place somewhere for the MOCA LAN bridge. Didn't realize that you could still buy separate ones, thought that they stopped making them.

However, if you don't want Verizon sniffing your local LAN, you may want to make their router primary (and for the TV set-top / DVRs), and then cascade a secondary router for your LAN. Just set the secondary router in the DMZ, and connect a LAN on the VZ router to the WAN on your router, and set up a secondary subnet for your local LAN. That's what I've done.

Edit: And DSLReport's FIOS forum is still the best place on the 'net to ask these questions. This forum is more general-purpose.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would run ethernet from the ONT, and get it to work that way first just to simplify things. From there you can then try to replace the router. Since you don't need TV to work this should be very easy. Get something like pfsense that can do vlans, plug straight into the WAN port and set the appropriate vlan. You may be able to dig around the internet to find out what it is. I have fibre through bell and it's vlan 34 if I recall, or maybe 35. One is for TV the other is for internet. The TV part is tricky as there's more specifics that need to be done for it to work but you don't have to worry about that in your case.

Just curious is the ONT an Alcatel and is the router an Actiontec? I wonder if they use the same setup.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

I don't think I can do this my old apartment had one of the brand new ONTs, with easily accessible Ethernet and coax output ports. But the one I have now is an older model, and it seems that the output goes directly out the back of the box into the wall it's mounted on. So I COULD theoretically have a tech come out and maybe replace my ONT or change the way it's wired, but that'd eat up at least half a Saturday and that's just not worth it.

Thanks to everyone who helped.

 

[azazel1024]

I would run ethernet from the ONT, and get it to work that way first just to simplify things. From there you can then try to replace the router. Since you don't need TV to work this should be very easy. Get something like pfsense that can do vlans, plug straight into the WAN port and set the appropriate vlan. You may be able to dig around the internet to find out what it is. I have fibre through bell and it's vlan 34 if I recall, or maybe 35. One is for TV the other is for internet. The TV part is tricky as there's more specifics that need to be done for it to work but you don't have to worry about that in your case.

Just curious is the ONT an Alcatel and is the router an Actiontec? I wonder if they use the same setup.

The router is an Actiontec and the ONT is not an Alcatel, I forget which make it is.

You do not need to setup VLANs on the router. ANY router will work and no VLANs need to be setup. At least for Verizon FIOS is is rather stupidly simple to setup, TV only slightly complicating the picture.

Wicka, for your setup, open up the ONT itself. I'd bet you it is easy as sin to plug an ethernet wire in and run it out the back of the enclosure, mine certainly was. I think it took me 15 seconds once I found the right size socket to open the enclosure.

 

[JackMDS]

You do not need to setup VLANs on the router. ANY router will work and no VLANs need to be setup. At least for Verizon FIOS is is rather stupidly simple to setup, TV only slightly complicating the picture.

QFT.

BTW, if One replaces the Modem/Router with a New none Verizon Router be patient.

It might 12 hours or more until the New Router is detected and start to provide Internet service.

 

[azazel1024]

QFT.

BTW, if One replaces the Modem/Router with a New none Verizon Router be patient.

It might 12 hours or more until the New Router is detected and start to provide Internet service.

Just make sure you choose to release the IP address on the Verizon router before you unplug it (and don't wait around, even without selecting a new reservation, it does it automatically after about 1-2 minutes).

I've never had issues with that. If you forget the step, it can be up to 24hrs or so to get an IP address (or as little as seconds if the reservation was old enough). The one time I forgot when swapping routers, I just went to bed and the new router was online the next morning.

Anyway, if you forget to release the IP address on the older router, the ONT will not hand-out a new IP address to the new router until the old reservation expired (and I am pretty sure they are 24hr leases, so you have to wait 24hrs minus however long it was since the old router had requested the renewal).

 

[imagoon]

I have Verizon FiOS internet (not TV) and I'd like to replace the stock router with one that doesn't suck; however, I understand that things are a little different with fiber. I've read that fiber delivers a digital signal directly to the house, so a modem is not needed. But I used to have TV along with internet, so the installer used coax from the ONT (the white box thing) instead of ethernet. I've never seen a router that accepted coax as the WAN input (except, of course, for the stock Verizon router) so I'm curious as to how I'd replace it. I've seen people bridge the connection from the stock router to a new one, but that seems utterly pointless, and I'd still be renting a router from Verizon and ultimately relying on a device that isn't very reliable. And I've seen people suggest calling Verizon and having a tech come out and replace the coax with ethernet, and inconvenience that quite obviously isn't worth it. Is there another way? Could I connect to the coax to a modem like I would with cable internet?

Could I connect to the coax to a modem like I would with cable internet?

Outside cable -> MOCA to ethernet bridge -> Ethernet -> Router of choice. You may still need to call Verizon to request the router lease be broken. The bridge may cost you $250 new. You might get lucky with something off ebay.

Personally I would run Ethernet, but I would install the cabling myself. It would be extremely easy since the hole is already there from the coax, and seal with glob of calk.

 

[lupi]

Is this a joke?

My goal is to entirely get rid my Verizon router. I don't like paying a rental fee for it, I don't like the fact that it gives them access to my wifi password (which they then display, in plain text, on their support site), and frankly it just doesn't work very well. I clearly stated in my original post that I would like to get rid of my Verizon router. Not only do all of your suggestions require me to keep it, but I also addressed and dismissed each of them in my own post. It's as if you read none of my post before replying. Is that seriously how a super moderator on this forum "contributes"? I'm trying to not to be rude here but I am simply aghast at your response. It is helpful in zero ways.

i would suggest actually writing what you mean then, not some crap like "I'd like to replace the stock router with one that doesn't suck" and hope random individuals somehow realize this actually means the above.

 

[JackMDS]

Just make sure you choose to release the IP address on the Verizon router before you unplug it (and don't wait around, even without selecting a new reservation, it does it automatically after about 1-2 minutes).

I've never had issues with that. If you forget the step, it can be up to 24hrs or so to get an IP address (or as little as seconds if the reservation was old enough). The one time I forgot when swapping routers, I just went to bed and the new router was online the next morning.

Anyway, if you forget to release the IP address on the older router, the ONT will not hand-out a new IP address to the new router until the old reservation expired (and I am pretty sure they are 24hr leases, so you have to wait 24hrs minus however long it was since the old router had requested the renewal).

Thanks azazel your Point, it can serve many people very well.

In my personal case I do an extensive research before I Jump into an endeavors like the one that we are discussing here.

I was aware of the above and did the IP release. Never the less I had the problem as mentioned last post.

One case Statistic (mine) is far from representing all cases. Why it did not work for me I do not know.

 

[agfkfhahddhdn]

i would suggest actually writing what you mean then, not some crap like "I'd like to replace the stock router with one that doesn't suck" and hope random individuals somehow realize this actually means the above.

"I'd like to replace the stock router" should be more than enough to indicate that I'd like to replace my stock router. If your only response is "why?" then you aren't here to help. That's the response of a five-year-old.

 

[imagoon]

"I'd like to replace the stock router" should be more than enough to indicate that I'd like to replace my stock router. If your only response is "why?" then you aren't here to help. That's the response of a five-year-old.

You may want to take the attitude some place else. This isn't Verizon customer support and is a forum based on people taking time out of their day to off assistance. Be grateful that anyone decided to respond at all.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You may want to take the attitude some place else. This isn't Verizon customer support and is a forum based on people taking time out of their day to off assistance. Be grateful that anyone decided to respond at all.

This. You want paid support to bitch at, you pay for it.

 

[azazel1024]

"I'd like to replace the stock router" should be more than enough to indicate that I'd like to replace my stock router. If your only response is "why?" then you aren't here to help. That's the response of a five-year-old.

His point is, WHAT are you looking for. Not simply "one that doesn't suck".

Well, okay, I've got a list of 100 different routers for you. What are your requirements. What kind of speeds do you want. Do you want it to do something else special. Do you need router attached storage, if so for what use (IE performance requirements). Do you need a router that can function as a download server. Torrent box. VPN services.

One that doesn't suck doesn't really tell us anything. One normally does not want to purchase a product that sucks. Normally.

For what I'd do, I'd personally just put the current Verizon router in to bridge mode http://www.verizon.com/support/resi...et/networking/setup/actiontec704wg/123754.htm#

Then just connect your router's WAN port to one of the LAN ports of the actiontec (don't connect anything else to a LAN port on the actiontec) and leave the actiontec/verizon router connected to your coax. Then the Verizon router will function purely as a WAN bridge for MoCA back to your ONT box.

Otherwise you need to hunt down a MoCA bridge that will do WAN bridging. They aren't terribly expensive, figure $100-130 new or $30-60 used...but the number that do WAN bridging are limited, with the most popular models being...drum roll...used actiontec routers set in to bridge mode. Exactly what you probably have now.

If you want to ditch it completely and only have internet with Verizon, I STRONGLY recommend running an ethernet cable from the ONT box in to where you want to place your router. I'd bet my bottom dollar is it significantly easier to access the ports on the ONT than you think and then router the cable (at least immediately inside of your home, supposing the ONT isn't already located inside the house).

 

[azazel1024]

Thanks azazel your Point, it can serve many people very well.

In my personal case I do an extensive research before I Jump into an endeavors like the one that we are discussing here.

I was aware of the above and did the IP release. Never the less I had the problem as mentioned last post.

One case Statistic (mine) is far from representing all cases. Why it did not work for me I do not know.

It may be that your router requested a new IP address almost immediately. In my experience with the Verizon Actiontec router running as a router and then replacing it completely, once I did an IP release and immediately unplugged it and it worked fine. Another time I did and IP release and took maybe all of 30 seconds to go unplug it (as I wasn't sitting right next to it). It seems like it requested a new IP lease in that time as my router didn't pull an IP address and I had to wait overnight before my router would pull and IP address and connect to the internet.

On a "my own router" replaced with a different "my own router" time, I simply forgot to release the IP address, but I fortunately had the MAC address for the router's WAN port written down, so I just cloned it on my new router and it worked fine (because I was too lazy to go get the other router that I had just boxed up and stuck on a shelf, plug it in and wait for it to reboot, log in and do an IP release).