Replacing a roof

[Red Squirrel]

Make sure they put the ice & water shield all the way to the top. Code only requires to do the bottom part, but it only makes sense to do the whole roof, it's an extra layer of protection. By default they probably won't do that, but if you ask they'll do it for a bit extra.

 

[Craig234]

One thing they mentioned they'd do is a 'ridge vent'.

 

[Pick2]

Another thing you need to consider is: If you have a storm and develop a leak like we did , you'll end up needing your whole kitchen ceiling replaced. Drywall , ALL that wet insulation , it was a Freaking nightmare. That had to wait till the new roof was on , of course.
🙂 You want to hear a woman bitch , wait till the ceiling comes down in the middle of Her kitchen 😛

 

[bruceb]

Metal roofs can be a good idea as they will outlast a shingle roof and are very resistant to damage from high winds. They are used in most of rural Alaska and seem to be a favorite in the deep south (Texas / Louisiana, etc) .. Mike Holmes put one on the home they built for his son and also did solar on the roof (for electric) (this is in Canada) .. But they are more costly to install.

 

[Darwin333]

I thought the GAF Tinderwood are reflective tiles that are the 'cool roof'?

Thanks for the comments. I sort of like the company in one way - the CEO personally came to the appointment with the salesman and is a good guy - but I have no expertise in determining whether this $15,000 for 2000 feet of roofing is worth the higher than normal cost.

This CEO has big plans and wants to go national; he brought in the founder of match.com as a co-founder to this.

Paying fairly for quality is one thing; paying a premium for no good reason is another. I wonder which is the case.

Sorry, GAF TimberLINE shingles is what we generally use which are just normal architectural shingles. At the very least I would ask for 2 quotes, one with and one without the cool shingles. If you'd like you can redact all the personal information and email them to me and I will give you a thorough analysis. I estimated over a million dollars of roofing last week, going over a few residential quotes would be cake work.

PS: $7.50/sf is, as we say in the office, "high as a giraffes ass" even accounting for the upcharge on material for the cool roof. Do you have a crazy hard roof to walk, lots of valleys, two layers of roofing already on it? Possible for you could send me a few pics?

Caspertg@gmail.com

 

[sdifox]

Metal roofs can be a good idea as they will outlast a shingle roof and are very resistant to damage from high winds. They are used in most of rural Alaska and seem to be a favorite in the deep south (Texas / Louisiana, etc) .. Mike Holmes put one on the home they built for his son and also did solar on the roof (for electric) (this is in Canada) .. But they are more costly to install.

Holmes is a hack.

 

[Darwin333]

One thing they mentioned they'd do is a 'ridge vent'.

That is pretty standard and dirt cheap to install. Do you have soffit vents or gable vents?

Edit: Also what is your average utility bill?

Edit #2: It just dawned on me that if you are currently being quoted $7/SF you should check out Gerard roofs. While I have never personally installed one they are lifetime roofs, are "cooler" than any shingle will ever be, 120mph wind resistance, 2 1/2" hail resistant and look pretty good. From what I can find they run around $4/SF. Far superior in just about every way to a cool shingle roof.

https://www.gerardusa.com/

 

[Darwin333]

Make sure they put the ice & water shield all the way to the top. Code only requires to do the bottom part, but it only makes sense to do the whole roof, it's an extra layer of protection. By default they probably won't do that, but if you ask they'll do it for a bit extra.

While it is an extra layer of protection, and a damn good one at that, it's more than a little extra. I will put it on if asked and wouldn't necessarily recommend against it but I never actually recommend it and I live in a serious storm area. Along the eave, rakes and valleys is usually good enough.

 

[Greenman]

If you can get on the roof and get a pic of it that would help a lot.
The ice and water shield isn't necessary in the bay area, you will never get an ice dam.

 

[Greenman]

Thanks for offering to help me find the 'fittest' roof Darwin. The guy came by again so it's clarified they use GAF Tinberwood materials. It is asphalt to asphalt. I think their estimate was like $15,000 for an estimated 2000 sq. ft roof for a house < 1000 sq ft. - expensive, they say 'worth it'.

They offered a $1,500 incentive so that'd lower it a bit but still.

Turns out the 'cool roof' they're talking about it based on material being reflective, rather than the color.

$750 a square is premium price, depending on the roof. Pics would really help.

 

[Craig234]

Pic it is:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=UjQxVlZwNUFqSnJXbm1UbV9iaEZwNDRtdXF3WHJB

 

[bruceb]

From your pix site, you can Right Click, Copy Image and then do a Ctrl+V (paste) right into your post
I am no roofing expert, but that does not look in terrible shape to me. Probably has a few years left in it.

 

[Darwin333]

$750 a square is premium price, depending on the roof. Pics would really help.

$750 a square is just crazy for a normal shingle roof. I could fly my guys there, put them up in a nice hotel, feed them steak every night and still make a huge profit. The "cool shingles" aren't THAT much more expensive than normal architectural shingles. I'd really like to see his estimate, hopefully it has dimensions on it so I can run some back of napkin numbers but I bet I could put a 24ga standing seam roof or hell even a tile roof on his house and be in the ballpark. Tile generally runs in the $700-800 a square range for a standard complexity roof and it literally lasts a lifetime and increases property value.

I don't care how cut up or steep it is, that's just crazy for a shingle roof unless they are doing a hell of a lot more than I'm aware of.

 

[Greenman]

That's not bad at all. It's pretty tough to tell without doing an actual inspection, but I'd guess you'd get at least another 5 years out of that roof. Also, $15k for a roof that simple is pretty high.

 

[Greenman]

$750 a square is just crazy for a normal shingle roof. I could fly my guys there, put them up in a nice hotel, feed them steak every night and still make a huge profit. The "cool shingles" aren't THAT much more expensive than normal architectural shingles. I'd really like to see his estimate, hopefully it has dimensions on it so I can run some back of napkin numbers but I bet I could put a 24ga standing seam roof or hell even a tile roof on his house and be in the ballpark. Tile generally runs in the $700-800 a square range for a standard complexity roof and it literally lasts a lifetime and increases property value.

I don't care how cut up or steep it is, that's just crazy for a shingle roof unless they are doing a hell of a lot more than I'm aware of.

Roofing is expensive in California. Workmens comp rates for a roofer start at absurd and go up from there, 90% isn't unheard of. I would also assume that his quote includes new gutters and downs as well.

 

[Darwin333]

Pic it is:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=UjQxVlZwNUFqSnJXbm1UbV9iaEZwNDRtdXF3WHJB

No way to tell the condition of the roof from that pic and don't trust anyone that says they can. What I did learn is that you have a shit easy roof to rip and nail, it just doesn't get any easier. Do you mind sending me the quote you recieved, I put my email in a previous post. The price you were quoted just doesn't make any sense to me after seeing that picture. Like I said, I could literally fly guys down there and seeing how easy it is put them up in 4, maybe even a 5, star hotel for 3 nights (even though it would only take them one day to do it) and still make a killing at $7.50/sf or $750 a square.

FyI, in the roofing industry we like to use "squares" which is simply 100SF if you didn't pick up on that already.

 

[Darwin333]

Roofing is expensive in California. Workmens comp rates for a roofer start at absurd and go up from there, 90% isn't unheard of. I would also assume that his quote includes new gutters and downs as well.

We pay 7X% for flat roofers, which this would be classified under, here and we have the best mod in the state. Metal roofers are significantly cheaper to insure. And I'm considering the metal work, including gutters, in my opinion. That is just a way the hell out there number, I would be absolutely floored if that is the going rate to bang shingles anywhere in the states especially on a job that darn easy. That is a shingle bangers dream roof if you can get a shingle conveyor truck to it. Even if you can't, it would still be stupid easy with a laddervator.

 

[Greenman]

We pay 7X% for flat roofers, which this would be classified under, here and we have the best mod in the state. Metal roofers are significantly cheaper to insure. And I'm considering the metal work, including gutters, in my opinion. That is just a way the hell out there number, I would be absolutely floored if that is the going rate to bang shingles anywhere in the states especially on a job that darn easy. That is a shingle bangers dream roof if you can get a shingle conveyor truck to it. Even if you can't, it would still be stupid easy with a laddervator.

It is an easy roof. Assuming a single layer it will cost $80 a square to get it ripped off and hauled away. Depending on what city he's in, the permit should run around $400. Gutters are $9 a foot and downs are $150 each. I'd expect to pay around $450 to $500 a square for premium roofing installed.

I haven't checked recently, but comp for roofers around here with a clean record were starting at 40% a few years back.

 

[Craig234]

I don't know what downs are, but the estimate includes new gutters. Looks like they didn't leave the estimate - they just showed me a pad of paper where they had calculated $15,000 (with a $1,500 incentive making it $13,500). This was for aluminum, not copper.

Darwin, I guess the GAF Timberland comes in reflective and normal?

So you use normal and these guys have a reflective version?

A steel roof doesn't seem that attractive an option. I still don't know who to call for an objective inspection but think I'll call a roofing company.

 

[bruceb]

Downs is short for the downspouts. They go from the gutter down to the ground level and either direct water away from the house or into a storm drain pipe.

 

[eng2d2]

Darwin do you guys use pneumatic nailer or by hand? I heard pneumatic is not advisable

 

[Darwin333]

I don't know what downs are, but the estimate includes new gutters. Looks like they didn't leave the estimate - they just showed me a pad of paper where they had calculated $15,000 (with a $1,500 incentive making it $13,500). This was for aluminum, not copper.

Darwin, I guess the GAF Timberland comes in reflective and normal?

So you use normal and these guys have a reflective version?

A steel roof doesn't seem that attractive an option. I still don't know who to call for an objective inspection but think I'll call a roofing company.

I was simply trying to give a comparison, a standing seam roof is light years ahead quality wise than a shingle roof. Again, most places in the country you can get a real tile roof for that kind of money which is a lifetime roof.

Personally, I would get multiple quotes before doing anything and I honestly wouldn't consider a cool shingle a worthy investment in your environment.

Edit: I misspoke the first time. I use whatever an architect specifies most of the time but when I do dabble in residential I use GAF TimberLINE shingles which does offer a few "cool" colors but as I have previously said, the SRI's between a normal light colored shingle and a "cool" shingle are so insignificant that I don't push them and no one asks for them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in love with GAF shingles for any particular reason, by dollars shingle roofing is by far the smallest portion of my business. GAF Timberline is just the standard architectural shingle my favorite distributor stocks so that's what I use when it's my choice or I'm doing residential. If a residential customer demands a different brand that my supplier doesn't carry I just walk, my relationship with my distributor plays a huge part in my projects running so smoothly.

 

[Darwin333]

It is an easy roof. Assuming a single layer it will cost $80 a square to get it ripped off and hauled away. Depending on what city he's in, the permit should run around $400. Gutters are $9 a foot and downs are $150 each. I'd expect to pay around $450 to $500 a square for premium roofing installed.

I haven't checked recently, but comp for roofers around here with a clean record were starting at 40% a few years back.

That is still fairly high for my market for the cool shingles, which aren't nearly as pricey as some of the other premium shingles but I wouldn't be nearly as floored by the price if that's what he was quoted. No way in hell he was $6K worth of gutter, looks more like a grand and change.

As far as our workers comp and other overhead, man do I have a hard time explaining that crap to our private customers when we change order them. It costs me more than $2 for every dollar I actually pay a flat roofer.

 

[Darwin333]

Darwin do you guys use pneumatic nailer or by hand? I heard pneumatic is not advisable

We have a few old school architects that specify hand nailing but otherwise we use nailguns. If you know how to properly use them so they don't overdrive the nail and make sure you hand nail any nail that isn't fully driven they work perfectly. The occasional nail not being driven deep enough is fine as long as the guy notices it and gives it a whack with his hammer but overdriven nails caused by the nailgun being set too high, the hallmark of what we affectionately call "pickup truck roofers", is a serious problem.

 

[Craig234]

What would you suggest I consider, Darwin, weighing everything - low price, quality, value, environmentalism? One or more options are ok. Since I know about nothing about this. But I am interested in solar for environmental reasons when I do it.

What features should I try to get?

For example I saw an article saying copper is better than aluminum.